Is there anyone on this forum who can defend Earthgore in PvP?

Exodium · October 2018

I can genuinely find no reason to defend this set. It is arguably right now the most overpowered defensive set (let alone monster set) in the game and it only requires 2 slots.

- It gives a 15-20k burst heal that requires nothing but going under 50% health. This is a PROC set that requires zero player input or ability to react as long as a heal over time (like ritual) is up

- The heal is an AOE so it is essentially a resto ult on demand that undoes your burst to other players if a player with earthgore happens to be near them

- Ok I get it there's a 30 second cooldown - but what about when a player rotates between repentenace/resto ult, tri pots, and other sources of healing. Just when you've finally generated your ultimate again to burst people down, the earthgore is ready to proc again. In fact, the earthgore timer is basically the same as the timer it takes to build an ultimate again.

There is no reason this set should be the way it is in its current state. Sets like this just disguise people's mistakes and what's the point in trying to exploit a players errors when a set like this spoon-feeds them back to full health.

I speak mostly from a small-scale/solo perspective, but honestly I've even seen coordinated groups of 15 vs other groups of 15 and have no one die because of the amount of earthgores proccing. The the direction of the game which is epitomised by sets like earthgore has caused so many good PvPers to leave ESO in droves because of how beginner-friendly this game is becoming with broken sets/abilities that have no counterplay or they offer too much protection to the user. This particularly hurts solo and small-group players the most.

So anyways, someone try to defend this set in its current form in PvP and justify its ability to heal the way it does. I would love to hear it.

kaiage · October 2018

I stand by the earthgore set not because I have it (I don't) and want it (I don't need it) but because zenimax said so. And it's their game. So... better luck to me in my next batch of crown crates zeni?

Exodium · October 2018

kaiage wrote: »

I stand by the earthgore set not because I have it (I don't) and want it (I don't need it) but because zenimax said so. And it's their game. So... better luck to me in my next batch of crown crates zeni?

Wow really you don't have it? That's kind of weird considering almost every third person I encounter has Earthgore equipped in pvp ever since the golden vendor sold the helm a few weeks back.

This just exacerbated the problem even more because it became so accessible from the vendor that people didn't even have to earn this overpowered set from the veteran dungeon they would've had to do to get it. You have people who struggle to complete the non-dlc veteran dungeons running out with a free 20k healing proc - again well done ZoS.

Emma_Overload · October 2018

It has a very long cooldown for the individual wearing it. What you are really complaining about is zergs using it over and over.

kaiage · October 2018

So, according to celestial avatar above what you should be complaining about is how cliché earthgore has gotten and how it's totally not cool anymore.

WrathOfInnos · October 2018

I’m not sure what type of nerf you’re suggesting, and can’t speak personally about the set in PVP. I will point out that this set is important for PVE Warden healers, since they lack any time of smart burst heal (especially with the change to healing ward). Earthgore is basically their one BoL every 30s and a cooldown increase would be terrible. Maybe a slight decrease in heal magnitude or affected area size would be ok, but should be compensated with a shorter cooldown. In general I’m opposed to nerfing sets or abilities just because someone hasn’t found a way to counter it yet.

Shawn_PT · October 2018

People use it for PvE too. Keep that in mind.

Exodium · October 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

It has a very long cooldown for the individual wearing it. What you are really complaining about is zergs using it over and over.

No no did you read my post? The amount of people in zergs who equip esrthgore is a problem, yes, but the set itself is inherently broken because it procs without the player even having to react to burst as long as a heal over time is on (which is always the case considering the same people who use earthgore are usually the ones who spam rapid regen and healing springs)..

Also, as I said before the individual wearing it doesn't have to care about the cooldown because if you can intelligently rotate the proc with potions and defensive ultimates, you can effectively be immune to any burst.

kaiage · October 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I’m not sure what type of nerf you’re suggesting, and can’t speak personally about the set in PVP. I will point out that this set is important for PVE Warden healers, since they lack any time of smart burst heal (especially with the change to healing ward). Earthgore is basically their one BoL every 30s and a cooldown increase would be terrible. Maybe a slight decrease in heal magnitude or affected area size would be ok, but should be compensated with a shorter cooldown. In general I’m opposed to nerfing sets or abilities just because someone hasn’t found a way to counter it yet.

I'm not so sure of this, Wrath of Onions. I play a healing Warden and give out shrooms to people in need. They seem to be satisfied with the results... oh and when I summon trees? Good Game mfkr.

Exodium · October 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I’m not sure what type of nerf you’re suggesting, and can’t speak personally about the set in PVP. I will point out that this set is important for PVE Warden healers, since they lack any time of smart burst heal (especially with the change to healing ward). Earthgore is basically their one BoL every 30s and a cooldown increase would be terrible. Maybe a slight decrease in heal magnitude or affected area size would be ok, but should be compensated with a shorter cooldown. In general I’m opposed to nerfing sets or abilities just because someone hasn’t found a way to counter it yet.

Shawn_PT wrote: »

People use it for PvE too. Keep that in mind.

Yeah I know guys I do feel a bit sorry for you in the sense where if ZoS does nerf this set it'll punish the Pve players too.

But the set is a big problem in pvp right now because of how forgiving it is to players who let their guard down.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Its a fine set assuming its not being overused in a group. With the nerf, most groups stopped stacking Earthgore.

Which yes, its being overused right now. I equipped it on my healer after I got it from the Golden, said meh, and went back to my original set. I get more use out of the extra tankiness than I do from Earthgore. I suspect most people will shortly find that Earthgore isn't actually the be-all, end-all of PVP sets, though it'll be frustrating until they figure that out.

As for individual players, there's a difference between the good player using Earthgore as a clutch heal and the bad player relying on Earthgore to save them. Earthgore is good for the former, and its not going to save the latter once its on cool down.

Siohwenoeht · October 2018

@Exodium I would assume by your stance that you don't use any offensive proc sets either, but earthgore seems to be a counter to unmitigated damage proc sets and abilities.

I won't defend or condemn either defensive or offensive proc sets, I don't personally use either, but they do exist for a reason. Offensive proc sets counter tankyness and defensive proc sets counter unmitigated damage. If either should be adjusted then both should be adjusted.

Also, imo, zos is trying to lessen the incredible increase in DPS in both pvp and pve thus these types of sets may be here to stay, until they've come up with a solution to the super high dps.

Girl_Number8 · October 2018

With a 35 second cooldown, I think it is more then fair and not a problem. It is pretty much a one trick pony. It seems that you maybe need to organize your group better. And 'the no one dying at all' is an exaggeration as everyone dies.

Though maybe instead, take the monster helms away from the golden vendor, so those that cannot complete the vet dungeons don't get the swag. I am pretty sure though many would disagree with this as they earned it with their ap and I see no problem with that at all.

It is an okie healer set that really isn't a problem.

geonsocal · October 2018

gotta love the blood rain...let it rain, let it rain...

BRogueNZ · October 2018

Are there any other sets other than EG and TK that healers can wear to ensure maximum ap/hr and t-bag op's for our enemies? 90% of the unearned stuff is dps so its a half serious question.

and thank god for the golden, not having to 'earn' something from lateny unfriendly vet content is such as relief.

Waffennacht · October 2018

I actually earned mine the week before the vendor (hahahahahaha take that me)

But what you're really saying is:

That I should equip it, I'll definitely consider this in conjunction with my build

kaiage · October 2018

above poster get's an awesome, because f* him!

Just kidding, it's mostly because you made me laff.

TheValar85 · October 2018

No. knwoing the fact that Meles keep QQ about how sorcerers are so OP while it has been a know fact how every mele is way over powered then sorcerers and ZOs keep destroying that class while DK's one hit killing everyone with dargon leap and so on.

Red_Feather · October 2018

If enough complaining happens it'll result in zergs being penalized in some way, since the problem is always with zergs. It has always been an issue with what everyone stacks in AvA that is OP. FotM may change but if a zerg stacks it then it is OP all the time.

kypranb14_ESO · October 2018

If the problem is with zergs rotating it, surely putting a "You can only be affected by Earthgore every 30 seconds" or however long the cool down to re-proc it is. This would solve the zerg problem.

If the issue is simply "every time I use my ultimate, their earthgore procs" Maybe consider using your ult after you put their Earthgore on cool down?

Red_Feather · October 2018

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

If the problem is with zergs rotating it, surely putting a "You can only be affected by Earthgore every 30 seconds" or however long the cool down to re-proc it is. This would solve the zerg problem.

I look at sets whose proc can affect allies and think every one of them should have that rule to them.

MaxJrFTW · October 2018

It has a 35 sec cooldown, and it's not rare to see the proc go to waste. It can proc on idiots who over extend and will die anyways, and it can proc on people who are LOSing and dots take them below 50% but they were never in any real danger.

Mayrael · October 2018

Did you tried to:
1. Drop someone's health below 50% without ulti.
2. Wait for earth gore proc to wear off.
3. Drop their health without ulti again.
4. Use ulti.
5. Use execute.
It works for me, most of the time as healers usually are to confident and don't try to use any CCs or LoS

Exodium · October 2018

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

If the problem is with zergs rotating it, surely putting a "You can only be affected by Earthgore every 30 seconds" or however long the cool down to re-proc it is. This would solve the zerg problem.

If the issue is simply "every time I use my ultimate, their earthgore procs" Maybe consider using your ult after you put their Earthgore on cool down?

Red_Feather wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

If the problem is with zergs rotating it, surely putting a "You can only be affected by Earthgore every 30 seconds" or however long the cool down to re-proc it is. This would solve the zerg problem.

I look at sets whose proc can affect allies and think every one of them should have that rule to them.

Agreed and another solution I would add to that would be, instead of "When you heal a friendly target under 50%"

I would change it to

"When you CAST a healing ability under 50% - this way it doesn't just play the *** game for you and you actually have to react to damage and heal quickly.

swippy · October 2018

i'm enjoying my new Earthgore set in PvP very much. i'm happy with it staying as-is.
i've been doing more BGs and not as much Cyrodiil lately, so it's only helping me against 8 people's bursts at a time right now rather than 24 or whatever, and sometimes it makes it better to hold when i'd otherwise keep moving, but i'm having fun with it.

maybe if people threw more AoEs right there when they see the proc it'd keep us moving? it's not that smart of a heal that counterplay is inconceivable. i don't know if this is the kind of advice OP was looking for and i don't intend to "defend" the set, but just off the top of my head maybe it'll help?

AllPlayAndNoWork · October 2018

...Earthgore defends itself.....

D0PAMINE · October 2018

Omg I love this thread lol keep it coming please.

I bought my Earthgore and use it to prevent death to all who oppose me! But I still havn't beaten my greatest enemy....the cliff.

Besides, if it's common in PvP, then without a doubt it has been used on you, by a friendly, saving you....

idk · October 2018

kaiage wrote: »

I stand by the earthgore set not because I have it (I don't) and want it (I don't need it) but because zenimax said so. And it's their game. So... better luck to me in my next batch of crown crates zeni?

No offense buy Zenimax saying so really is not a solid answer. They are not very knowledgeable of how their game works which is a big reason why we get such heavy handed changes so often. They literally lack a vision of how to manage this game as a result of their severe lack of understanding.

However, OP putting it on the forums to justify the set is really no better and is a fairly weak approach considering the heavy armor builds that have great survivability yet do decent damage, and other aspects of the game.

In reality it is all a poor vision that Zos has had in adding so many proc sets to the game. I think this is a great game, the best MMORPG out there, but Zos has caused even more issues with adding so many sets that play the game for us rather than doing the damage and healing ourselves.

Hotdog_23 · October 2018

The only character I us It on in PVP is my healer. If someone is getting busted down it will generally only delay their death a few seconds which give me time to react. Outside of being gawked the reason I die in PVP is low resources which earthgore does nothing for. I personally think it is fine where it is.

Exodium · October 2018

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

The only character I us It on in PVP is my healer. If someone is getting busted down it will generally only delay their death a few seconds which give me time to react. Outside of being gawked the reason I die in PVP is low resources which earthgore does nothing for. I personally think it is fine where it is.

LOL not sure about that. A 15-20k instant heal saves you from even having to cast any healing abilities. That's 6k worth of magicka/stamina saved right there.

ArchMikem · October 2018

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.