Is there anyone on this forum who can defend Earthgore in PvP?

Exodium · October 2018

I'm actually starting to think that the apologists for Earthgore are the same people who sit at the back of a zerg in group chat saying "can we get a negate and more time stops on that two-man group over there."

Hotdog_23 · October 2018

Exodium wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

The only character I us It on in PVP is my healer. If someone is getting busted down it will generally only delay their death a few seconds which give me time to react. Outside of being gawked the reason I die in PVP is low resources which earthgore does nothing for. I personally think it is fine where it is.

LOL not sure about that. A 15-20k instant heal saves you from even having to cast any healing abilities. That's 6k worth of magicka/stamina saved right there.

True but you would not believe the number times I have seen someone run out of it without getting the full heal.

Exodium · October 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

This discussion isn't about PvE. I already made my point that this is a problem in PvP and it would suck if any adjustments to the set punishes PvE players too. As it stands the set is a joke in PvP and seems to be healthy for PvE. That might speak more broadly to the problems with the game not separating the two properly.

weedgenius · October 2018

This game exists outside of PVP ffs.

WaltherCarraway · October 2018

you have 35 seconds to kill your opponents

weedgenius · October 2018

Exodium wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

This discussion isn't about PvE. I already made my point that this is a problem in PvP and it would suck if any adjustments to the set punishes PvE players too. As it stands the set is a joke in PvP and seems to be healthy for PvE. That might speak more broadly to the problems with the game not separating the two properly.

So do you think sets should start behaving differently in PVP and PVE? Or are you just venting your frustrations here?

Exodium · October 2018

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

you have 35 seconds to kill your opponents

Okay sure. I'll go on my magplar and equip earthgore. In between rotating between potions, repentenace/bol and potions I guarantee that you won't kill me on any setup you play. Now amplify that problem when that one player is in a group - you literally have to focus him or the group is basically immortal. Now amplify that problem AGAIN when there's two people with earthgore in the group. You see the problem?

It's funny that there's so much hatred about damaging proc sets on the forums yet an unchecked free 20k heal is 'okay' apparently.

Exodium · October 2018

weedgenius wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

This discussion isn't about PvE. I already made my point that this is a problem in PvP and it would suck if any adjustments to the set punishes PvE players too. As it stands the set is a joke in PvP and seems to be healthy for PvE. That might speak more broadly to the problems with the game not separating the two properly.

So do you think sets should start behaving differently in PVP and PVE? Or are you just venting your frustrations here?

Yes definitely. Battle spirit is not enough at this point.

Juhasow · October 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

I would say it's more like carrying people by covering their mistakes and allowing to bypass many mechanics without sacrificing anything to spend on defense. Saving lives is healers job not the set job.

ArchMikem · October 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

I would say it's more like carrying people by covering their mistakes and allowing to bypass many mechanics without sacrificing anything to spend on defense. Saving lives is healers job not the set job.

Healers use sets to do their job. You want a Vet Bloodforge HM Healer to just wave their stick around casting Mutagen? Earthgore is there to salvage a potential loss of the Tank or wipe because there was a sudden turn for the worse that the players reflexes or even the ticks of normal Heals wouldnt be enough. The set is just a good tool. You want to take Nail Guns away from the people building your house cause you think its doing the worker's job for them?

Sheezabeast · October 2018

I personally love this set in PVE on my healer, really helps with people who run ahead and get roflstomped by mobs...any nerf in PVP would hurt it in PVE. So hell to the noooooo.

Exodium · October 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

I would say it's more like carrying people by covering their mistakes and allowing to bypass many mechanics without sacrificing anything to spend on defense. Saving lives is healers job not the set job.

Exactly my point of view (but in terms of pvp).

If I have to work hard for my kills I expect people to work equally hard to stay alive, not just get an instant pass out of death because of a set.

Waffennacht · October 2018

I did add it to my build.

Very nice addition.

During the cool down I space out light's champion.

Nice addition to my BG combat medic

Mr_Walker · October 2018

Another day, another call for something to be nerfed.

Exodium · October 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

I did add it to my build.

Very nice addition.

During the cool down I space out light's champion.

Nice addition to my BG combat medic

Oh boy lol.

Exodium · October 2018

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Omg I love this thread lol keep it coming please.

I bought my Earthgore and use it to prevent death to all who oppose me! But I still havn't beaten my greatest enemy....the cliff.

Besides, if it's common in PvP, then without a doubt it has been used on you, by a friendly, saving you....

This is the problem. If I've made a mistake by letting my buffs down, not being mobile while attacks are on me, not blocking and dodge rolling at the right times well I dont deserve to be saved. And if I do get saved it should be because a healer actually put in the effort to save me, not because I happened to stand in the radius of his esrthgore proc.

Juhasow · October 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

I would say it's more like carrying people by covering their mistakes and allowing to bypass many mechanics without sacrificing anything to spend on defense. Saving lives is healers job not the set job.

Healers use sets to do their job. You want a Vet Bloodforge HM Healer to just wave their stick around casting Mutagen? Earthgore is there to salvage a potential loss of the Tank or wipe because there was a sudden turn for the worse that the players reflexes or even the ticks of normal Heals wouldnt be enough. The set is just a good tool. You want to take Nail Guns away from the people building your house cause you think its doing the worker's job for them?

You're funny. Same as the fact that people can just go on vet BF HM with 3x DD and tank using Earthgore and do it easier then with healer. Healers use abilities to do their job sets are just there to help them out with that not replace them. If people die in PvE that's mostly because they or someone in their group made mistake which is normal thing I dont know why suddenly there is issue for You here. Potential loss of tank in vBF HM is mostly tank or healers fault because either tank runs out of stam to dodge , block or even sprint out of the range because he was not using opportunities to heavy attack or healer simply did poor job at healing and supporting tank resources. There is no such a thing as "sudden turn for worse" in vBF HM and if people dies that's their mistakes that make that happen. This is the part of PvE to learn on Your mistakes and progress not to cover mistakes with a set and complete content anyway without getting better.

Things like Earthgore are the reasons why lately healers feel not needed , because yes of course healer could use it but what for if You can just bring tank with that set which will cover most problematic moments of the fight and since You replaced healer with DD You'll be able to burn through stuff easier and faster which makes long cooldown on Earthgore irrelevant. If Earthgore is totally fine and balanced set then why other sets that have healing components are rarely used ? I did vDSA with 3x DD+tank multiple times with 48k+ scores and when I say that Earthgore replaces healer belive me I know what I am talking about.

Exodium · October 2018

All of you guys trying to defend Earthgore please watch this 2 minute video. After you watch it, how many of those players in the video who let their guard down by going offensive would've died if earthgore didn't carry them? At least three.

How many of the players died in the video? Only one, and that was the solo player who was fighting an inevitable losing battle because of that set which procced 3 times in two minutes.

If counterplay to being bursted is getting a free 20k heal then the PvP is in a terrible state and I can see why some of the top players from PvP guilds are leaving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kem1Xv3OCCQ

Exodium · October 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

I would say it's more like carrying people by covering their mistakes and allowing to bypass many mechanics without sacrificing anything to spend on defense. Saving lives is healers job not the set job.

Healers use sets to do their job. You want a Vet Bloodforge HM Healer to just wave their stick around casting Mutagen? Earthgore is there to salvage a potential loss of the Tank or wipe because there was a sudden turn for the worse that the players reflexes or even the ticks of normal Heals wouldnt be enough. The set is just a good tool. You want to take Nail Guns away from the people building your house cause you think its doing the worker's job for them?

You're funny. Same as the fact that people can just go on vet BF HM with 3x DD and tank using Earthgore and do it easier then with healer. Healers use abilities to do their job sets are just there to help them out with that not replace them. If people die in PvE that's mostly because they or someone in their group made mistake which is normal thing I dont know why suddenly there is issue for You here. Potential loss of tank in vBF HM is mostly tank or healers fault because either tank runs out of stam to dodge or block because he was not using opportunities to heavy attack or healer simply did poor job at healing and supporting tank resources. There is no such a thing as "sudden turn for worse" in vBF HM and if people dies that's their mistakes that make that happen. This is the part of PvE to learn on Your mistakes and progress not to cover mistakes with a set and complete content anyway without getting better.

Things like Earthgore are the reasons why lately healers feel not needed , because yes of course healer could use it but what for if You can just bring tank with that set which will cover most problematic moments of the fight and since You replaced healer with DD You'll be able to burn through stuff easier and faster which makes long cooldown on Earthgore irrelevant. If Earthgore is totally fine and balanced set then why other sets that have healing components are rarely used ? I did vDSA with 3x DD+tank multiple times with 48k+ scores and when I say that Earthgore replaces healer belive me I know what I am talking about.

Its actually funny because I was going to add to your post before by saying exactly what you just said.

Healers are the ones in PVE that SHOULD be hating against this set because they are effectively useless thanks to earthgore. In fact, if three semi-competent DPS all equipped earthgore, a healer would be completely unneccesary. And the dps would only be sacrificing maybe 3-4k dps by not using a damage-oriented monster set, but that dps loss is insignificant when you do 25-40k dps anyway. It's still more than enough to do VET HM on DLC dungeons with a knowledge of the mechanics.

Beardimus · October 2018

This set was OP initially, however had a nerf and ive felt its less of a problem since then. Granted I haven't been on this week since vendor to see the impact.

But it is a go to for PvE so balance is a tricky one even if it's needed.

Tan9oSuccka · October 2018

Seems balanced. Long cool down, but can come up big in clutch moments.

If the cooldown was like 10 seconds, then yeah. Probably overtuned.

Juhasow · October 2018

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Seems balanced. Long cool down, but can come up big in clutch moments.

If the cooldown was like 10 seconds, then yeah. Probably overtuned.

It's huge misconception to think that 35 seconds is long cooldown. How often You're getting pummeled really hard more then once per 35 seconds ? And if You would then nothing would save You anyway because You are just pummeled too hard.

Tan9oSuccka · October 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Seems balanced. Long cool down, but can come up big in clutch moments.

If the cooldown was like 10 seconds, then yeah. Probably overtuned.

It's huge misconception to think that 35 seconds is long cooldown. How often You're getting pummeled really hard more then once per 35 seconds ? And if You would then nothing would save You anyway because You are just pummeled too hard.

I don’t personally use it, and I’ve fought against people using it. Designed for actual group play, which I’m sure all the yolo people scream ”ZOS yer enabling zergs!!!” Derp derp derp.

They waste a two set bonus for a big heal every 35 seconds.

What’s the issue again? Those users are dead meat.

Juhasow · October 2018

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Seems balanced. Long cool down, but can come up big in clutch moments.

If the cooldown was like 10 seconds, then yeah. Probably overtuned.

It's huge misconception to think that 35 seconds is long cooldown. How often You're getting pummeled really hard more then once per 35 seconds ? And if You would then nothing would save You anyway because You are just pummeled too hard.

I don’t personally use it, and I’ve fought against people using it. Designed for actual group play, which I’m sure all the yolo people scream ”ZOS yer enabling zergs!!!” Derp derp derp.

They waste a two set bonus for a big heal every 35 seconds.

What’s the issue again? Those users are dead meat.

So if Zenimax would add set with tooltip saying " When there is more then 10 allies around You You all are getting immortal" it would be ok because that would be set quote "designed for actual group play" ? Get real here there is difference between creating balanced and non balanced set doesnt matter group or solo play.

By "two set bonus" You mean 1 piece bonus on monster set ? if yes then from what I remember there is 2% healing done bonus in earthgore and 2% healing done is more then 129 spell dmg when it comes to heals strenght plus percentage bonuses works with proc sets which Earthgore is. If You're talking about actual Earthgore 2 piece healing proc bonus then where is waste here ? If You would've choose something esle and die then that other thing wouldnt be usefull that much anyway. Calling any of this options a "waste" is kinda funny.

ArchMikem · October 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

I would say it's more like carrying people by covering their mistakes and allowing to bypass many mechanics without sacrificing anything to spend on defense. Saving lives is healers job not the set job.

Healers use sets to do their job. You want a Vet Bloodforge HM Healer to just wave their stick around casting Mutagen? Earthgore is there to salvage a potential loss of the Tank or wipe because there was a sudden turn for the worse that the players reflexes or even the ticks of normal Heals wouldnt be enough. The set is just a good tool. You want to take Nail Guns away from the people building your house cause you think its doing the worker's job for them?

You're funny. Same as the fact that people can just go on vet BF HM with 3x DD and tank using Earthgore and do it easier then with healer. Healers use abilities to do their job sets are just there to help them out with that not replace them. If people die in PvE that's mostly because they or someone in their group made mistake which is normal thing I dont know why suddenly there is issue for You here. Potential loss of tank in vBF HM is mostly tank or healers fault because either tank runs out of stam to dodge , block or even sprint out of the range because he was not using opportunities to heavy attack or healer simply did poor job at healing and supporting tank resources. There is no such a thing as "sudden turn for worse" in vBF HM and if people dies that's their mistakes that make that happen. This is the part of PvE to learn on Your mistakes and progress not to cover mistakes with a set and complete content anyway without getting better.

Things like Earthgore are the reasons why lately healers feel not needed , because yes of course healer could use it but what for if You can just bring tank with that set which will cover most problematic moments of the fight and since You replaced healer with DD You'll be able to burn through stuff easier and faster which makes long cooldown on Earthgore irrelevant. If Earthgore is totally fine and balanced set then why other sets that have healing components are rarely used ? I did vDSA with 3x DD+tank multiple times with 48k+ scores and when I say that Earthgore replaces healer belive me I know what I am talking about.

Two paragraphs that told me you're of the tunnel visioned elite end game. Three great dps and a tank who all know what theyre doing is a very well built yet very uncommon group. Dungeons arent only ran by guild premades, you cant just ignore all those PuGs where in the end the fate of the run can depend squarely on a Healer using any and all assets available.

Im no stranger at all myself to burning through Vet HM dungeons with three or even four dps because our self healing was enough, and none of us even used Earthgore so i can definitely imagine. But i still appreciate the set and im not of the mindset of constantly gimping myself because something annoys people in Cyrodiil.

Tan9oSuccka · October 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Seems balanced. Long cool down, but can come up big in clutch moments.

If the cooldown was like 10 seconds, then yeah. Probably overtuned.

It's huge misconception to think that 35 seconds is long cooldown. How often You're getting pummeled really hard more then once per 35 seconds ? And if You would then nothing would save You anyway because You are just pummeled too hard.

I don’t personally use it, and I’ve fought against people using it. Designed for actual group play, which I’m sure all the yolo people scream ”ZOS yer enabling zergs!!!” Derp derp derp.

They waste a two set bonus for a big heal every 35 seconds.

What’s the issue again? Those users are dead meat.

So if Zenimax would add set with tooltip saying " When there is more then 10 allies around You You all are getting immortal" it would be ok because that would be set quote "designed for actual group play" ? Get real here there is difference between creating balanced and non balanced set doesnt matter group or solo play.

From what I remember there is two set bonus in Earthgore also and it's healing done. 2% healing done is usually more then 129 spell dmg when it comes to heals plus percentage bonuses also works with proc sets so is this really waste of 2 piece bonus ?

Subjective. The people that run EG healbots surely aren’t killing anything.

I watched an EG healbot try to take a resource in non-CP. It took them at least 20 minutes. Not even joking.

Tan9oSuccka · October 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Seems balanced. Long cool down, but can come up big in clutch moments.

If the cooldown was like 10 seconds, then yeah. Probably overtuned.

It's huge misconception to think that 35 seconds is long cooldown. How often You're getting pummeled really hard more then once per 35 seconds ? And if You would then nothing would save You anyway because You are just pummeled too hard.

I don’t personally use it, and I’ve fought against people using it. Designed for actual group play, which I’m sure all the yolo people scream ”ZOS yer enabling zergs!!!” Derp derp derp.

They waste a two set bonus for a big heal every 35 seconds.

What’s the issue again? Those users are dead meat.

So if Zenimax would add set with tooltip saying " When there is more then 10 allies around You You all are getting immortal" it would be ok because that would be set quote "designed for actual group play" ? Get real here there is difference between creating balanced and non balanced set doesnt matter group or solo play.

By "two set bonus" You mean 1 piece bonus on monster set ? if yes then from what I remember there is 2% healing done bonus in earthgore and 2% healing done is more then 129 spell dmg when it coems to heals strenght plus percentage bonuses works with proc sets which Earthgore is. If You're talking about actual Earthgore 2 piece healing proc bonus then where is waste here ? If You woudld choose something esle and die then that other thing wouldnt be usefull that much anyway. Calling any of this options a "waste" is kinda funny.

Nice edit. Alright, I would like to see you use earthgore in solo play. Let me know how that works out for you.

I’ll wait.

DirkRavenclaw · October 2018

I love this set in PVP and make sure that when we have Healers in the Group, that it is used

AlienatedGoat · October 2018

Guarantee you more PvE healers run Earthgore than anyone else. It's practically BiS.

Stop asking for nerfs on sets that are obviously most used in PvE.

Exodium · October 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Acting like PvE doesnt exist.

This set saves lives in Dungeons and Trials.

I would say it's more like carrying people by covering their mistakes and allowing to bypass many mechanics without sacrificing anything to spend on defense. Saving lives is healers job not the set job.

Healers use sets to do their job. You want a Vet Bloodforge HM Healer to just wave their stick around casting Mutagen? Earthgore is there to salvage a potential loss of the Tank or wipe because there was a sudden turn for the worse that the players reflexes or even the ticks of normal Heals wouldnt be enough. The set is just a good tool. You want to take Nail Guns away from the people building your house cause you think its doing the worker's job for them?

You're funny. Same as the fact that people can just go on vet BF HM with 3x DD and tank using Earthgore and do it easier then with healer. Healers use abilities to do their job sets are just there to help them out with that not replace them. If people die in PvE that's mostly because they or someone in their group made mistake which is normal thing I dont know why suddenly there is issue for You here. Potential loss of tank in vBF HM is mostly tank or healers fault because either tank runs out of stam to dodge , block or even sprint out of the range because he was not using opportunities to heavy attack or healer simply did poor job at healing and supporting tank resources. There is no such a thing as "sudden turn for worse" in vBF HM and if people dies that's their mistakes that make that happen. This is the part of PvE to learn on Your mistakes and progress not to cover mistakes with a set and complete content anyway without getting better.

Things like Earthgore are the reasons why lately healers feel not needed , because yes of course healer could use it but what for if You can just bring tank with that set which will cover most problematic moments of the fight and since You replaced healer with DD You'll be able to burn through stuff easier and faster which makes long cooldown on Earthgore irrelevant. If Earthgore is totally fine and balanced set then why other sets that have healing components are rarely used ? I did vDSA with 3x DD+tank multiple times with 48k+ scores and when I say that Earthgore replaces healer belive me I know what I am talking about.

Two paragraphs that told me you're of the tunnel visioned elite end game. Three great dps and a tank who all know what theyre doing is a very well built yet very uncommon group. Dungeons arent only ran by guild premades, you cant just ignore all those PuGs where in the end the fate of the run can depend squarely on a Healer using any and all assets available.

Im no stranger at all myself to burning through Vet HM dungeons with three or even four dps because our self healing was enough, and none of us even used Earthgore so i can definitely imagine. But i still appreciate the set and im not of the mindset of constantly gimping myself because something annoys people in Cyrodiil.

youre basically emphasising his argument that healers only have a place in casual/PuG 4man content and that's about it; if you want to go for leaderboards in vDSA or get no death/speed runs just ditch the healer and get one or two dps popping earthgores.

I don't think the game should work like that considering its supposed to be built around the holy-trinity concept of MMOS (tank, healer, dps)

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Seems balanced. Long cool down, but can come up big in clutch moments.

If the cooldown was like 10 seconds, then yeah. Probably overtuned.

It's huge misconception to think that 35 seconds is long cooldown. How often You're getting pummeled really hard more then once per 35 seconds ? And if You would then nothing would save You anyway because You are just pummeled too hard.

I don’t personally use it, and I’ve fought against people using it. Designed for actual group play, which I’m sure all the yolo people scream ”ZOS yer enabling zergs!!!” Derp derp derp.

They waste a two set bonus for a big heal every 35 seconds.

What’s the issue again? Those users are dead meat.

So if Zenimax would add set with tooltip saying " When there is more then 10 allies around You You all are getting immortal" it would be ok because that would be set quote "designed for actual group play" ? Get real here there is difference between creating balanced and non balanced set doesnt matter group or solo play.

From what I remember there is two set bonus in Earthgore also and it's healing done. 2% healing done is usually more then 129 spell dmg when it comes to heals plus percentage bonuses also works with proc sets so is this really waste of 2 piece bonus ?

Subjective. The people that run EG healbots surely aren’t killing anything.

I watched an EG healbot try to take a resource in non-CP. It took them at least 20 minutes. Not even joking.

You'd be surprised I'm actually starting to see players with their normal dps sets incorporate earthgore as their monster set as well. It's no longer exclusively a 'healbot' set as we might have thought it would be. I even saw a gankblade running it lol.