MaxJrFTW wrote: »

There's are plenty of NPC in the game that are part of the pact, covenant, or dominion army, and they're necromancers. The whole lore argument against necromancers isn't even valid.

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Since launch, Necromancer as a playable class has become one of the most frequently requested additions to the game as well as one of the most contentious topics of debate on the forums with many players pleading their case for Necromancers as the most logical addition to the game and others parroting ZoS original stance against the issue. In the first section of this post I intend to address the most common arguments against Necromancy for players and demonstrate why those arguments are flawed in some cases and flat out incorrect in others. Ill be starting with the easiest to debunk, ZoS own statement against the class.

Your main enemy in ESO are Necromancers

Let's be clear on this point, no they aren't. In the Vanilla launch of the game our primary enemies were Molag Bal, Mannimarco and his necromantic Worm Cult but the issue here is the idea that all Necromancers are Worm Cultists, when they're not. In fact the majority of Necromancers are not Worm Cultists. The majority of Necromancers practice only certain degrees of Necromantic magic and they do so very privately while maintaining ordinary lives. In the Elder Scrolls it's always been known that the average Wizard or Mage character has practiced Necromancy to some degree in secret, including high ranking members of the Mages Guild and Government officials. In fact, In ESO Necromancy is most commonly used by players themselves, which I'll get to in a moment.

Necromancy is Illegal.

Again, to be clear, No it is not. At least not everywhere. Lets take a quick look at what the lore says various provinces response to Necromancy is.

Cryodiil

Despite the bans on necromancy in Morrowind and within the Mages Guild, it technically remained legal in Cyrodiil. In fact, there have been many times in the history of the Imperial Province where necromancy was extensively practiced, and even publicly tolerated. The only known period that necromancy was supposedly abolished across the Empire was during the reign of Reman II in the late First Era. The Empire has been known to hire at least a few necromancers, who are given the corpses of criminals and traitors to use legally in the pursuit of their craft.

Elsweyr

Elsweyr is said to be relatively accommodating to necromancy. The Khajiit are said to show little if any outrage over uncovered graves, and corpses can apparently be purchased in the port of Senchal. Though corpses don't hold up well in the forests, the deserts of Elsweyr preserve corpses for centuries, allowing skilled necromancers to make use of them relatively easily. The way the bodies are buried in the deserts, under only a small cairn of stones, is also ideal for necromancers on the prowl for resources.

Hammerfell

Though the vast majority of Redguards abhor necromancy, their deep devotion to their departed ancestors has also led them to abhor any sort of interaction with the undead, which has left them particularly vulnerable to necromancers.[41][42][43] It seems their revulsion for necromancy has contributed to their aversion to the use of magic in general.

Orsinium

Orc corpses are highly sought after by necromancers for their durable skin and strong bones. A group of necromancers actually tried to establish a trade in Orcish corpses with Orsinium near the end of the Third Era, though it's unknown what kind of reception they received.

High Rock

Necromancers have typically had to operate underground in High Rock, as the citizenry generally find it despicable.

Morrowind

While the Dunmer considered the necromantic manipulation of another Dunmer abhorrent, they did not prohibit the practice of necromancy upon human remains, or on the remains of any animal, bird, or insect. The Telvanni, in particular, became renowned for their mastery of necromancy, though it is said even they will not defile the corpse of a fellow Dunmer.[50]

Skyrim

n Skyrim, necromancers often find it relatively easy to operate. This is because the inhospitable terrain provides many isolated places to work, and the cold helps preserve bodies (that is, if they can be found in the snow). While the general populace in modern times seems as opposed to necromancy as in any other province, this was not always the case among the Nords, and the land has had a long and complicated history with necromancy

Summerset

The Summerset Isles was the original homeland of not only Mannimarco, but the Direnni clan of Altmer who are remembered as among the first to unlock the secrets of summoning souls. Nevertheless, the land of the Altmer is arguably even less hospitable to necromancers than Valenwood. A few elite Altmer are allowed some study of necromancy, but their research seems to be centered around the extension of mortal lifespans, rather than the more conventional uses of necromancy

Valenwood

The Bosmer of Valenwood are said to possess an intolerance for necromancy which "goes beyond all reason". Further, though they do not typically practice Arkay's rituals to protect the dead against necromancers, their practice of ritual cannibalism reduces the availability of corpses, making Valenwood a particularly difficult place for necromancers to operate. Their animosity for necromancy may be exaggerated, as many individuals show little concern over the reanimation of the dead.

It doesn't make sense Storywise. Meridia/The Psijics/Sai Sahan would never work with a Necromancer

Lore wise, these 3 entities despise the undead in all their forms. So would they refuse to work with a vestige who practices Necromancy? No, they wouldn't because they haven't yet. Let's start with vampirism, which is considered a form of Necromancy. None of these entities will so much as bat an eye if the player chooses to be a Vampire. It has 0 effect on the story. You may say, "Well that's different," and sure, maybe it is. So let's take a look at the Necromancy you're already doing, shall we? Every player in ESO is given the tree "Soul Magic" it is the only skill line that it's guaranteed that every single player in ESO will have a skill in. Soul Magic is Necromancy. Right out of the tutorial every PC in ESO is using one of the keystones of Necromancy in what is considered one of the vilest Necromantic acts; Ripping the Soul out of a living creature in the most painful way possible and trapping it in a Soul Gem. In fact, the game rewards players who stick it through to the end of the Main Quest by giving them a Necromantic Ultimate skill (albeit a useless one). These entities have not shown even the slightest acknowledgment that we are all already using Necromantic magic, so this argument on it's face it's useless.

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Let's talk about why Necromancy would work in ESO now. I've heard it claimed by many players that in order for Necromancy to work as a viable skill, it would have to be all about summoning the Undead. However our current Necromantic skill line shows that dealing out Damage over Time is easily in the range of the ability. Let's look at another practical use of Necromantic magic beyond Conjuration and DoT spells.

The Lorebooks, "On Necromancy" and "The Legend of Vastarie" we hear the stories of two responsible Necromancers who used their magic not to harm souls but rather with great care toward their well being. "On Necromancy" is short enough so here, take a look at what it has to say.

Reanimation should not be taken lightly. Costs, both mundane and spiritual, can be very high. Intent is everything. Too much emotion may create a creature so consumed with anger and hate its every action is perverted by its pain. Too little creates a mindless husk with little more than the ability to follow the simplest of commands. A calm mind, its thoughts well-organized and its plans well-considered, is the most necessary ingredient for animating the dead.

The soul is necessary, of course, as are many other ingredients listed at the end of this chapter. But as to the body ... take caution. Any corpse may be reanimated, regardless of age or state of decay, but the most useful are those that are mostly intact (or can be made intact with little effort). A whole skeleton is better than a fresh, but mutilated, body.

As to freshness, be careful in this consideration as well. Have you ever wondered why there are so many skeletons among the reanimated undead, fewer zombies, and only a scant few revenants? The longer a body remains inanimate, the less hold its original owner has on the corpse. A spirit can stay tied to its remains for days, weeks, or even years—the shorter the time, the more likely the spiritual umbilicus exists.

A wise necromancer does not wish to fight for control of his creation with an angry spirit seeking a way back into the world. Best to be certain all of a creature's soul has departed before reanimation begins. Even should the necromancer win the battle, it is a cruel victory, tormenting a spirit on its way to rest.

Raising the dead so recent that the soul has not yet fled is ill-advised, as true resurrection is not the purview of the necromancer, but something best left to gods and priests.

This book instructs novice Necromancers in the best way to reanimate the dead without causing excess pain to the soul that once inhabited the reanimated body as well as discouraging the use of fresh corpses lest the resultant creature become dangerous.

The second book, "The Legend of Vastarie" tells the story of one of Mannimarcos fellow Psijics who practiced Necromancy as a way to consult with and soothe the spirits of the deceased before allowing them to pass peacefully into Aetherius. She used Necromantic magic to heal the soul, which in MMO terms may easily translate into healing or group buff abilities, giving Necromancers as a class a viable three skill tree set of Conjuration, Healing, and Damage+Damage of Time similar to a mix between Sorceror and Templar.

The point is, the arguments against Necromancers as a class are flimsy and unrealistic given the state of the in game lore and there are certainly viable ways to implement the class in game. However the only way ZoS will do so may be if we as players acknowledge that this is something we want in game.

SydneyGrey wrote: »

*Digs up my favorite screenshots to support the cause*

This is Eyevea after it's liberated. One of the Mage's Guild teachers, an Orc lady, is seen here summoning a flesh atronach.
A flesh atronach.
She also summons various daedra.



Also, here's a screenshot from a class being held at one of the Mage's Guilds (I believe in Vulkhel Guard). A teacher is telling the class why she personally bans necromancy in her classroom. She doesn't say "because it's illegal," she says she "bans" it from her classroom because of the smell. Why would the students ask her to teach it if they thought it was illegal and there'd be no chance of her teaching about it? So yeah, I think necromancy would make an awesome skill line. I mean, we already have the Dark Brotherhood, so why not necromancy, too.

Personally, the best way to implement necromancy would be to rework and revamp the Current Skill line: Soul Magic.

If zenimax online studios reworked soul magic into a necromantic skill line usable by any and all classes, it could fit really well and it would satisfy the players that support the idea of necromancy.

Starlock wrote: »

I really don’t get the obsession with fantasy-style necromancy. Can somene explain it to me? Is it some sort of edgelord thing?

josiahva wrote: »

Just say no to more pets. Go play Diablo if you want necromancers with 20 pets following you around doing your fighting for you.

Glurin wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

I really don’t get the obsession with fantasy-style necromancy. Can somene explain it to me? Is it some sort of edgelord thing?

Summoning a horde of skeletons (or zombies if you're into that sort of thing) that know no fear or pain to obey your every command and crush your enemies, which in turn you can raise to serve you and crush even more enemies.

What's not to like? I mean, besides the smell.