Buff to pets in pve?

Gnozo · October 2018

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?)

The change should already be on the PTS, what abilities if you know were damaging your pet so we can take a look?

After doing some digging, it looks like the damage reduction for Trials made it into the last PTS but the damage reduction for group Dungeons and Arenas did not. Look for that to make its way into the next PTS push. Sorry for the confusion.

I am literally near my tears reading all your comments. I am no Pets Sorc or play PvE much but i really, really appreciate how fast and often you reply to Players Questions, explaining reasons behind changes and communicating with your community.

Pls stay active, give us hope that maybe, one day important Devs like you, start doing the same. I love you

*cough* @ZOS_Wrobel

BretonMage · October 2018

Agree, thanks @ZOS_Finn , for engaging with us

SirAndy wrote: »

ON LIVE:
The Clannfear may not taunt enemies anymore but it sure holds a *lot* of aggro, even on the mini bosses and final boss.
Resource management is not a problem and neither is shield uptime. I do have to pay attention to my Pet healthbar, but otherwise this dungeon is simple and routine.

ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?) but it does *not* draw any aggro anymore, even the trash mobs ignore it!
So now i have the full onslaught of all trash mobs plus the bosses while trying to keep my reduced 40% shields up, heavy attacking and staying alive.
There are no more resources for any light attacks or skills, i can barely keep up the Liquid Lightning, let alone weave in an staff skills.
All my magicka goes into shields and heals and there is nothing left for offensive attacks.

This pretty much confirms what i suspected from your comments.
I never imagined this character to struggle that hard to get through what i otherwise consider the easiest of the veteran group dungeons.

Thanks for testing that out, SirAndy. This is depressing news indeed.

ruikkarikun · October 2018

@ZOS_Finn
Why you can't left taunt for pets in solo game? As some other said in this topic and tried on PTS it's now stupid that mobs don't react on pets. In all games summoners pets always fight with mobs, and they somehow sometimes taunted by pets.

After so many nerfs why kill even solo expirience for casual players? Why do you hate so much?

Wuuffyy · October 2018

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

CAN YOU PLEEEEEEEASE MAKE SURE THIS WORKS W/ WEREWOLF PETS‽

We can take a look at this. Werewolf pets should not be different than other pets so, if they are targeted by Chain Lightning since Update 19, that is a bug we will take a look at.

@Dagoth_Rac You bring up some good points, I'll pass it along to the combat team.

Thank you. I know it can be easier to miss as it isn’t widely tested in PTS as other things
are.

ruikkarikun · October 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett
@ZOS_Finn
also can you comment this
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5513332/#Comment_5513332

Full copy-paste:

I tried VMA on PTS with exact same pet build and sets I have been using. Long story short, pets die all the time. On 2nd arena they are mostly useless since they are dead even before monsters spawn (unless you spam the switches).

Empowered shield goes down immediately as most of the instant damage is above 5k+, so half of the time Matriarch's heals are not there because it's either dead or I am out of magicka. Can't imagine how painful stages 7 and 9 would be with these shields.

Based on my initial experience, I am not planning on doing a full VMA run on PTS, I'd rather try to farm for my inferno staff I never got till nerfs go on live server. But even if I get a staff before Nerfmire, what will I be using it for anyway? I love playing glass cannon, always have but switched to pet sorcerer to to farm VMA. Now with these changes it makes no sense to even farm it.

I feel like after all these years I can only continue to play ESO like "story mode" and keep looking for other options.. Been playing MMOs for 16 years, never seen such clueless devs before. Enough is just enough. For those who say "adapt", games are meant to be enjoyed, not stressed about.

*hits alt + f4*

So why pets dying on second arena? I mean what are you doing guys?

codestripper · October 2018

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett
@ZOS_Finn
also can you comment this
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5513332/#Comment_5513332

Full copy-paste:
I tried VMA on PTS with exact same pet build and sets I have been using. Long story short, pets die all the time. On 2nd arena they are mostly useless since they are dead even before monsters spawn (unless you spam the switches).

Empowered shield goes down immediately as most of the instant damage is above 5k+, so half of the time Matriarch's heals are not there because it's either dead or I am out of magicka. Can't imagine how painful stages 7 and 9 would be with these shields.

Based on my initial experience, I am not planning on doing a full VMA run on PTS, I'd rather try to farm for my inferno staff I never got till nerfs go on live server. But even if I get a staff before Nerfmire, what will I be using it for anyway? I love playing glass cannon, always have but switched to pet sorcerer to to farm VMA. Now with these changes it makes no sense to even farm it.

I feel like after all these years I can only continue to play ESO like "story mode" and keep looking for other options.. Been playing MMOs for 16 years, never seen such clueless devs before. Enough is just enough. For those who say "adapt", games are meant to be enjoyed, not stressed about.

*hits alt + f4*
So why pets dying on second arena? I mean what are you doing guys?

To add context, this is the reason why they are dying...

As you can see, the pets only get a 3 damage shield granted to them. This is not a graphical bug, they literally get the shield knocked off immediately upon combat with anything...

Note his health bar showing "16,683 + 3" @ZOS_Finn

I will name my familiar "super tiny shields" from now on to compliment my character's tiny shields.

Edit: This bug also happens in overland combat and is not specific to vMA

Natas013 · October 2018

Feric51 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn
VAA
Long lasting roots are really bad for pets who can not free them self

Also maybe exclude the pets from getting a "reflect" when damaging the last boss in this repair phase/shield phase in the middle. Kinda doable to control them to not do it but especial new players often forget it and the pet automatically goes to the main boss wiping the whole grp unless the raid leader yells "control your f***** pets".Some console player said they do not have the option to recall pets.(Dunno if it is true )

Console player here... The ONLY controls we have over our pets is to initiate their "special" with whatever button they're hotkeyed to, and to unsummon them completely by going into the Character menu ---> Active Effects ----> remove (pet) effect.

There is no way to de-aggro them, have them specifically target a certain mob, etc. It's..... challenging to run them efficiently.

You actually can make them target a specific mob, they will target the last mob you heavy attack.

ruikkarikun · October 2018

@ZOS_Finn so zero comments about pets easy dying in PVE? You don't want to us play solo?

Feric51 · October 2018

Natas013 wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn
VAA
Long lasting roots are really bad for pets who can not free them self

Also maybe exclude the pets from getting a "reflect" when damaging the last boss in this repair phase/shield phase in the middle. Kinda doable to control them to not do it but especial new players often forget it and the pet automatically goes to the main boss wiping the whole grp unless the raid leader yells "control your f***** pets".Some console player said they do not have the option to recall pets.(Dunno if it is true )

Console player here... The ONLY controls we have over our pets is to initiate their "special" with whatever button they're hotkeyed to, and to unsummon them completely by going into the Character menu ---> Active Effects ----> remove (pet) effect.

There is no way to de-aggro them, have them specifically target a certain mob, etc. It's..... challenging to run them efficiently.

You actually can make them target a specific mob, they will target the last mob you heavy attack.

Yes, but I thought on PC you can send a pet to attack a certain mob before you attack it yourself. Is this possible?

BrightOblivion · October 2018

Feric51 wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn
VAA
Long lasting roots are really bad for pets who can not free them self

Also maybe exclude the pets from getting a "reflect" when damaging the last boss in this repair phase/shield phase in the middle. Kinda doable to control them to not do it but especial new players often forget it and the pet automatically goes to the main boss wiping the whole grp unless the raid leader yells "control your f***** pets".Some console player said they do not have the option to recall pets.(Dunno if it is true )

Console player here... The ONLY controls we have over our pets is to initiate their "special" with whatever button they're hotkeyed to, and to unsummon them completely by going into the Character menu ---> Active Effects ----> remove (pet) effect.

There is no way to de-aggro them, have them specifically target a certain mob, etc. It's..... challenging to run them efficiently.

You actually can make them target a specific mob, they will target the last mob you heavy attack.

Yes, but I thought on PC you can send a pet to attack a certain mob before you attack it yourself. Is this possible?

Using Y+Left Click perhaps. Not sure how that would impact aggro, though.

corvair62 · October 2018

The pet shield not working properly for me neither. Pts is for testing and this definetly seems like it is not intended. My pts run of VMA was absolutly horrible with the pet sorc. Death after death. Hope this is not the version to go live. And yes I have cleared VMA on live with multiple characters and pet sorc is usually the one I farm it with.

maboleth · October 2018

Well, I tested my pet sorc on world bosses.
Pets die way too often and are usually insta-shot by a single boss take. Shield helps a bit, but is scrapped off very fast.

For example, Lonely Papa boss giant.

- PTS3, Volatile familiar dies in a single take, two if having luck.
- Live, Volatile familiar takes 4-6 hits before he dies, without shields.

Do you actually think that re-casting pets so many times in fights is actually fun? Don't need to answer. It is not.
Yes, I won the bosses solo but it wasn't so fun, it was tedious.

And please don't make "pets never die" option for vMA or overland content, like you did for dungeons and trials. That's not the right solution for this! Pets need to get hit but need to be buffed or reverted to the current live status also.

TheWorldsLastChance · October 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Wow, that's a solid change for solo play

They are only invulnerable in dungeons and trials. Not out in the world when you would need it for soloing.

maboleth · October 2018

Since Hardened ward got 20% additional shields for pets, is that the shield of choice for pets sorcs? Because I used to wear empowered for both duration + magicka regen. Who will wear empowered now?

codestripper · October 2018

maboleth wrote: »

Since Hardened ward got 20% additional shields for pets, is that the shield of choice for pets sorcs? Because I used to wear empowered for both duration + magicka regen. Who will wear empowered now?

Hardened has always been the choice for pet sorcs. Magicka Regen is next to useless as we use heavy attacks for sustain and not Regen like our straight sorcs comrades

Sevn · October 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

The improvement for the pets is NEEDED, nobody is denying it, but carving up the situations in which a pet works in certain ways is just lazy design.

Bingo. New players, casual players, are going to be completely baffled. It is obviously a knee jerk change because the impact of the shield nerfs.

It might be a moot point, because using pets, especially two, is close to not viable without the 3rd bar from overload.

I can't remember the last time I saw a two pet sorc build I even remotely thought about using.

1 pet for years now, the familiar.

I don't know why so many players have issues soloing vet content now

Just bask in the glory that you are so awesome that you can do some many many wonderful things us peons couldn't imagine. The air must be so fresh up there!

Valrien · October 2018

codestripper wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Since Hardened ward got 20% additional shields for pets, is that the shield of choice for pets sorcs? Because I used to wear empowered for both duration + magicka regen. Who will wear empowered now?

Hardened has always been the choice for pet sorcs. Magicka Regen is next to useless as we use heavy attacks for sustain and not Regen like our straight sorcs comrades

Not true. Magicka regen helps everyone so most good Sorcs used Empowered in PvE

codestripper · October 2018

Valrien wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Since Hardened ward got 20% additional shields for pets, is that the shield of choice for pets sorcs? Because I used to wear empowered for both duration + magicka regen. Who will wear empowered now?

Hardened has always been the choice for pet sorcs. Magicka Regen is next to useless as we use heavy attacks for sustain and not Regen like our straight sorcs comrades

Not true. Magicka regen helps everyone so most good Sorcs used Empowered in PvE

Edit: Sorry, that might have come across as rude and bragging, I'm not trying to. I'm just trying to say that I have yet to see any build prioritizing sustain doing nearly as much damage. And logically there really isn't any need to when you have 2 heavy attacks in your rotation. I've been a pet sorc main for over 3 years, not once has it improved my dps or survivability adding in more magicka regen. If you can show me someone who can parse over 43k on a 25 million health dummy with a high magicka regen, then I will reconsider my statement.

even with 700 regen, 2 heavy attacks make it so you can essentially infinitely sustain. Look at the Reg/s vs Drain/s if you don't believe me.

BrightOblivion · October 2018

What he's saying, I think, is that while hardened ward is far more beneficial to the heavy-attacking petsorc, who does not personally need the Minor Intellect buff from Empowered Ward but could absolutely use a stronger shield, using Empowered also grants that Minor Intellect to nearby allies, something that is particularly useful if those allies are non-pet magsorcs or are magknights, both of whom are typically sucking fumes even after trying to take down a 3mil dummy, much less anything more substantial. It's added group utility, which is generally a good thing to have unless the group you're in is already covered on that front.

Personally, I've (perhaps mistakenly, I guess) been using Empowered on Live lately, because the shield it provides is generally strong enough that, when I die, I'd probably have died with the extra strength from Hardened, the duration fits better into my rotation, and the Minor Intellect buff to allies who might need it is a nice bonus. That said, on Live, my Empowered Ward also has a 21k tooltip when it's more like 8k or so on PTS. So those other group members who could benefit from the Minor Intellect I was providing (such as it is) are on their own, as I'm going to need the extra shield strength from Hardened to stay alive in some fights, particularly while I'm trying to learn mechanics I can't really learn if I'm just face-tanking the floor and watching the action going on around me.

codestripper · October 2018

BrightOblivion wrote: »

What he's saying, I think, is that while hardened ward is far more beneficial to the heavy-attacking petsorc, who does not personally need the Minor Intellect buff from Empowered Ward but could absolutely use a stronger shield, using Empowered also grants that Minor Intellect to nearby allies, something that is particularly useful if those allies are non-pet magsorcs or are magknights, both of whom are typically sucking fumes even after trying to take down a 3mil dummy, much less anything more substantial. It's added group utility, which is generally a good thing to have unless the group you're in is already covered on that front.

Personally, I've (perhaps mistakenly, I guess) been using Empowered on Live lately, because the shield it provides is generally strong enough that, when I die, I'd probably have died with the extra strength from Hardened, the duration fits better into my rotation, and the Minor Intellect buff to allies who might need it is a nice bonus. That said, on Live, my Empowered Ward also has a 21k tooltip when it's more like 8k or so on PTS. So those other group members who could benefit from the Minor Intellect I was providing (such as it is) are on their own, as I'm going to need the extra shield strength from Hardened to stay alive in some fights, particularly while I'm trying to learn mechanics I can't really learn if I'm just face-tanking the floor and watching the action going on around me.

That makes sense to a point. I mainly do solo content and trials. In both of which that skill is useless for me. I guess with group content if not enough orbs are going out then I guess that might help a bit. I've never personally had issues with other group members needing the buff in 4 man dlc dungeon either because we usually bring another stamina dd. Overall I don't really see it being all that worth it to slot the skill other than as a "just because" kind of thing, or if you have 2 other mag DDs that you do 3 DPS 1 tank content with.

I guess it's more or less down to preference and situational circumstances. I'm not going to fault anyone for using it, I just don't see the benefit of having it slotted for all content other than like you said the extra duration bonus.

maboleth · October 2018

Valrien wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

Since Hardened ward got 20% additional shields for pets, is that the shield of choice for pets sorcs? Because I used to wear empowered for both duration + magicka regen. Who will wear empowered now?

Hardened has always been the choice for pet sorcs. Magicka Regen is next to useless as we use heavy attacks for sustain and not Regen like our straight sorcs comrades

Not true. Magicka regen helps everyone so most good Sorcs used Empowered in PvE

Yes, I used Empowered for my PVP pet sorc because mag regen. is on the lower side and usually cannot survive in the long run without pots. Anyway, will be interesting to figure this out, to make my gameplay more resource friendly, magicka wise. Don't want to use 2nd jewelry for mag. regen.

phileunderx2 · October 2018

Just finished some dungeon and gyser runs on pts
Scamp did not die in dungeon.
Scamp died multiple times on gyser end boss. So much that for him to be of any use I will have to run a resto staff on one bar and heal him myself. For any kind of pve solo content.

Dagoth_Rac · October 2018

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Just finished some dungeon and gyser runs on pts
Scamp did not die in dungeon.
Scamp died multiple times on gyser end boss. So much that for him to be of any use I will have to run a resto staff on one bar and heal him myself. For any kind of pve solo content.

With the change to combats pets taking zero damage in group PvE instances, it feels like there was a change to have pets take more damage in other content. I am not sure if that was by design or an unintended side-effect. It is no big deal for overland trash mobs, but for VMA and World Bosses, it is a real pain. Many of these mobs crank out massive damage that players can dance around or otherwise avoid, but combat pets cannot. Even if you try to recall them with Y+Mouse button during dangerous fight phases, they just run straight through the mechanics to return to you and they seem more susceptible to these mechanics than they were before..

Vahrokh · October 2018

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Just finished some dungeon and gyser runs on pts
Scamp did not die in dungeon.
Scamp died multiple times on gyser end boss. So much that for him to be of any use I will have to run a resto staff on one bar and heal him myself. For any kind of pve solo content.

With the change to combats pets taking zero damage in group PvE instances, it feels like there was a change to have pets take more damage in other content. I am not sure if that was by design or an unintended side-effect. It is no big deal for overland trash mobs, but for VMA and World Bosses, it is a real pain. Many of these mobs crank out massive damage that players can dance around or otherwise avoid, but combat pets cannot. Even if you try to recall them with Y+Mouse button during dangerous fight phases, they just run straight through the mechanics to return to you and they seem more susceptible to these mechanics than they were before..

I can confirm this. I wonder how they managed to break our pets like that. They were working just fine in solo / arena!!!

codestripper · October 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Just finished some dungeon and gyser runs on pts
Scamp did not die in dungeon.
Scamp died multiple times on gyser end boss. So much that for him to be of any use I will have to run a resto staff on one bar and heal him myself. For any kind of pve solo content.

With the change to combats pets taking zero damage in group PvE instances, it feels like there was a change to have pets take more damage in other content. I am not sure if that was by design or an unintended side-effect. It is no big deal for overland trash mobs, but for VMA and World Bosses, it is a real pain. Many of these mobs crank out massive damage that players can dance around or otherwise avoid, but combat pets cannot. Even if you try to recall them with Y+Mouse button during dangerous fight phases, they just run straight through the mechanics to return to you and they seem more susceptible to these mechanics than they were before..

I can confirm this. I wonder how they managed to break our pets like that. They were working just fine in solo / arena!!!

I also noticed this. Even with a full 8k shield in vMA they die in 2 hits from any AOE damage. On live I did a run with only crit surge and my pets did not die nearly as often with no shield whatsoever. @ZOS_Finn Do you know if there were any changes that might be causing this? When I get home I can post videos of both runs for comparison if needed.

Vahrokh · October 2018

codestripper wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Just finished some dungeon and gyser runs on pts
Scamp did not die in dungeon.
Scamp died multiple times on gyser end boss. So much that for him to be of any use I will have to run a resto staff on one bar and heal him myself. For any kind of pve solo content.

With the change to combats pets taking zero damage in group PvE instances, it feels like there was a change to have pets take more damage in other content. I am not sure if that was by design or an unintended side-effect. It is no big deal for overland trash mobs, but for VMA and World Bosses, it is a real pain. Many of these mobs crank out massive damage that players can dance around or otherwise avoid, but combat pets cannot. Even if you try to recall them with Y+Mouse button during dangerous fight phases, they just run straight through the mechanics to return to you and they seem more susceptible to these mechanics than they were before..

I can confirm this. I wonder how they managed to break our pets like that. They were working just fine in solo / arena!!!

I also noticed this. Even with a full 8k shield in vMA they die in 2 hits from any AOE damage. On live I did a run with only crit surge and my pets did not die nearly as often with no shield whatsoever. @ZOS_Finn Do you know if there were any changes that might be causing this? When I get home I can post videos of both runs for comparison if needed.

It's actually fairly simple to see what happened.

Pets used to have very high physical and magic resistances.
When they changed shields to take into account resistances (and crits), they also changed pets to take those parameters. Too bad, sorc resistances are so weak that now pets die to a sneeze, despite their health being the same as before.