Making evasion an AOE damage mitigator was ... illogical.
Major evasion should provided a reduction in both snare duration and snare strength AND provide a few seconds immunity to knock back.
Or, if changing how evasion works is not an option, then at the very least rework shuffle to NOT provide major evasion (medium armor is supposed to be about mobility, not about damage mitigation), and, instead, have shuffle provided a % reduction in both snare duration & strength AND give it a few seconds of knock back immunity.
Ragnaroek93 wrote: »It's more about the lack of survivability. Give Shuffle a small hot on it and it should be fine.
Ragnaroek93 wrote: »It's more about the lack of survivability. Give Shuffle a small hot on it and it should be fine.
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
@Liam12548 You must be a templar main. Templar undodgeable AoE spammables are one of the reason medium armor is so lacking on live.
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
I dont disagree with you, but there is 99% of other players worse than you that need to have reason to play medium. Getting 25% reduction to spin to win, dawn breakers, jabs, ballgroups or sieges is going help with that much more than 2s of snare immunity. There is still huge amount of PVP outside of some 1vX around tree.
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
I wonder sometimes if PvP-only players like this have ever even used medium armor? Are you aware that medium armor is a melee armor and dodge roll does NOTHING vs aoes? Medium armor gets eaten alive by the current popular aoe builds - spin2win, shalks, dbos, hurricane. And also by bleeds (worse than heavy). Medium needs a way to survive vs aoe damage in both PvP and PvE (where stam is excluded from some trials due to it's squishiness and lack of range).
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
I dont disagree with you, but there is 99% of other players worse than you that need to have reason to play medium. Getting 25% reduction to spin to win, dawn breakers, jabs, ballgroups or sieges is going help with that much more than 2s of snare immunity. There is still huge amount of PVP outside of some 1vX around tree.
Ah yes. Let's lower the skill floor every patch, increase mitigation even further despite the fact that healing and mitigation vastly outperform damage, then reduce mobility severely so players can't get away from the zergs that chase them down 10v1 or 30+v4
It's gonna be a real fun patch. /s
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
I dont disagree with you, but there is 99% of other players worse than you that need to have reason to play medium. Getting 25% reduction to spin to win, dawn breakers, jabs, ballgroups or sieges is going help with that much more than 2s of snare immunity. There is still huge amount of PVP outside of some 1vX around tree.
Ah yes. Let's lower the skill floor every patch, increase mitigation even further despite the fact that healing and mitigation vastly outperform damage, then reduce mobility severely so players can't get away from the zergs that chase them down 10v1 or 30+v4
It's gonna be a real fun patch. /s
Ragnaroek93 wrote: »It's more about the lack of survivability. Give Shuffle a small hot on it and it should be fine.
It's not though. That's the whole point. Zenimax is misinterpreting the real issue, which is the lack of mobility, as a lack of survivability. They are essentially catering to the cries of less skilled players who are unable to survive in medium because they play it like heavy, by increasing the mitigation and sustain available to medium. However at the same time, they globally reduced mobility and still did not provide any better snare immunity option to medium.
The real issue is and has always been shuffle is a bad snare immunity, while forward is a good snare immunity. They need to increase the immunity duration on shuffle to 5s, so there is a reason to choose medium over heavy. Turning medium armor into heavy armor with cost reduction and weapon damage but STILL LESS MOBILITY is just completely nonsensical.
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
I dont disagree with you, but there is 99% of other players worse than you that need to have reason to play medium. Getting 25% reduction to spin to win, dawn breakers, jabs, ballgroups or sieges is going help with that much more than 2s of snare immunity. There is still huge amount of PVP outside of some 1vX around tree.
Ah yes. Let's lower the skill floor every patch, increase mitigation even further despite the fact that healing and mitigation vastly outperform damage, then reduce mobility severely so players can't get away from the zergs that chase them down 10v1 or 30+v4
It's gonna be a real fun patch. /s
Templars crying about major evasion seems to be a trend today. Did you guys get together on discord and all agree to come here and cry up a storm?
I mean, you're seriously saying medium mitigation + healing outperforms damage so I guess it's impossible to kill medium armor users? Sounds like floor is not low enough for you.
Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »It's more about the lack of survivability. Give Shuffle a small hot on it and it should be fine.
It's not though. That's the whole point. Zenimax is misinterpreting the real issue, which is the lack of mobility, as a lack of survivability. They are essentially catering to the cries of less skilled players who are unable to survive in medium because they play it like heavy, by increasing the mitigation and sustain available to medium. However at the same time, they globally reduced mobility and still did not provide any better snare immunity option to medium.
The real issue is and has always been shuffle is a bad snare immunity, while forward is a good snare immunity. They need to increase the immunity duration on shuffle to 5s, so there is a reason to choose medium over heavy. Turning medium armor into heavy armor with cost reduction and weapon damage but STILL LESS MOBILITY is just completely nonsensical.
The whole point is that med armor has very few ways to deal with undodgeable stuff and pressure (outside of spamming Cloak or playing with grossly overperforming defensive sets). So yes, giving it a bit more survivability is the easiest way to go. 2s longer imunity won't change much.
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
The thing is, medium armor isn't designed to be tanky. Inherently giving it 25% aoe mitigation was a poor choice on zeni's behalf. You're SUPPOSED to kite and avoid damage in medium, not sit there and tank like heavy. Like I said, ZoS is catering to low tier players with this change, and not actually FIXING the issue with the armor weight.
I suggested 5s, which is 1s stronger than forward and double the current immunity, and any GOOD player will read that suggestion and understand the value of a longer immunity time in medium armor.
It's okay though, if ZoS doesn't buff shuffle's immunity we can all just run heavy + fm + blade cloak with the steed + an infused WD glyph + channeled acceleration and enjoy a nice long heavy armor meta (because that was SOO much fun back in the black rose days, imagine what it'll be like with 810 cp!).
I wonder sometimes if PvP-only players like this have ever even used medium armor? Are you aware that medium armor is a melee armor and dodge roll does NOTHING vs aoes? Medium armor gets eaten alive by the current popular aoe builds - spin2win, shalks, dbos, hurricane. And also by bleeds (worse than heavy). Medium needs a way to survive vs aoe damage in both PvP and PvE (where stam is excluded from some trials due to it's squishiness and lack of range).
Interestingly enough, all those AoE's you listed can be moved out of/away from with proper mobility, which doesn't exist currently for medium. I play medium on every class and have since 1T, but I'll be switching to heavy next patch on multiple builds unless ZoS does something to fix medium's mobility.
So you're telling me that PvE stam builds use shuffle, huh? Interesting, I didn't know that. I thought they used blade cloak. /s
Just for the record, I've completed all crag vet trials, all vet HM 4 man content, 46k DSA, 520k+ VMA score, etc. I also PvP with some of the top-tier PvE players on my server. I understand how stamina functions (or does not) in PvE. Shuffle has nothing to do whatsoever with that, and this thread is about changing shuffle.
Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »It's more about the lack of survivability. Give Shuffle a small hot on it and it should be fine.
It's not though. That's the whole point. Zenimax is misinterpreting the real issue, which is the lack of mobility, as a lack of survivability. They are essentially catering to the cries of less skilled players who are unable to survive in medium because they play it like heavy, by increasing the mitigation and sustain available to medium. However at the same time, they globally reduced mobility and still did not provide any better snare immunity option to medium.
The real issue is and has always been shuffle is a bad snare immunity, while forward is a good snare immunity. They need to increase the immunity duration on shuffle to 5s, so there is a reason to choose medium over heavy. Turning medium armor into heavy armor with cost reduction and weapon damage but STILL LESS MOBILITY is just completely nonsensical.
The whole point is that med armor has very few ways to deal with undodgeable stuff and pressure (outside of spamming Cloak or playing with grossly overperforming defensive sets). So yes, giving it a bit more survivability is the easiest way to go. 2s longer imunity won't change much.
No thank you. I will trade 1-1.5s of snare immunity for over 20s of 25% damage reduction on undodgable AoE every day of the year.
Why is every 'solution to medium armor problem' so nuclear with people like you. Medium must feel good to play in even if you arent god player. Second or 2 of longer snare immunity wont help anyone in medium to survive longer
(not that I disagree that medium still doesnt feel more mobile than heavy)