Has this game ever been more zerg-friendly?

Haashhtaag · October 2018

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

I see what they are doing killing solo PVP. Nerfmire may be the moment I quit and look for something else to play. I don't see why they are supporting Zerg play because even if I wanted to the damn game is to laggy to get near a dang Zerg. They can't argue that. So what in the heck are they doing to cyrodil?

Because zerg play and zerglings are casuals. ZOS caters to casuals, it's obvious. Just look at rapids not getting the blanket major expedition nerf.

Yes, I am a casual. It's called having a real life and job.

Me too brah.....I know a lot of really good players who small scale that work full time and play in the evenings. You choose the easy way to play while others challenge themselves to become better through small scaling and fighting out numbered.

Mr_Walker · October 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Me too brah.....I know a lot of really good players who small scale that work full time and play in the evenings. You choose the easy way to play while others challenge themselves to become better through small scaling and fighting out numbered.

Settle down on the assumptions. I'm in Australia (quiet timezone), and I play no-CP, so a large group is anything >4. Not sure how much smaller scaling you can get without being solo....

Drummerx04 · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I suspect we'll still see plenty of gankers and tower farming small-man groups.

But if you were wanting to 1vX or take your small man and win against larger organized groups, no, I don't think thats going to work out that well.

Mind you, I'm sure that 1vPotatoes and organized small man vs disorganized mob still works okay, within limits, as long as the lag doesnt strike too hard.

It's not that small scalers expect to "win" against an entire enemy faction, but we do expect to have the ability to harass a siege line of inexperienced players and not have set procs completely negate all healing or deal more damage than the actual enemy player does.

We just expect to be able to hold off an unorganized blob of players for more than 2 seconds with kiting, healing, defensive measures, LoS etc... and maybe kill a few that get to far ahead of the mob before getting overwhelmed.

That's fair, small organized groups ought to be able to tackle larger numbers of disorganized opponents.

Tackling large numbers of organized opponents is another matter. I just want to clarify that, because sometimes people get sloppy with defining a zerg. It makes a big difference whether the opponents are a larger disorganized or larger organized group.

Well I'm glad we agree there. The main problem is that organized raids have the tools available to be horrendously imbalanced, and the two primary culprits are actually purge and rapids. Both of these skills (unless something has changed in the last few months) only target group members, so a large guild group with appropriate composition can make themselves nigh imperious to snares, roots, CC, negates, and all other negative effects.

That is such a mind bogglingly unfair mechanical advantage over the unorganized masses. I'm surprised people don't complain more lol

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Cyrodiil is clearly intended for large-scale combat. There are base camps, faction zones, strategic choke points, structures that can be captured and held, a rapid deployment network (i.e. transitus), supply stations (farm, mill, mine), and so on. I find it curious that people demand small-scale combat in Cyro when the map isn't setup that way. But whatever.

Then implement some small scale servers with a max cap for group at 12. BG's are boring, the MMR system is broken, and not everyone wants to play no CP.

I agree with this. Maybe not a cap on group size but a place where you can participate in smaller-scale activities that contribute to the AvA effort without having to worry so much about getting zerg'd down. Good idea!

templesus · October 2018

If you’ve ever uttered anything along the lines of “Cyrodiil is meant for large scale fights” or “You shouldn’t be able to 1vx go duel or do bgs” then you’re likely a cloak spamming snipe spammer who runs in a 24 man and thinks Xv1ing and chasing someone for 10 minutes until you kill them is fun and engaging gameplay. See that? That’s ignorance. That’s the type of insult somebody ignorant would say in response to an ignorant comment like Cyrodiil is meant for large scale fights only and anybody solo doesn’t deserve to even play the game.

To be frank, the amount of us 1vXers on the forums is probably less then 5% of the total population, so we’ll never find support. I have considered making a 1vXer discord in which only people who are proven or referred 1vXers can join and we can compile feedback to give to a class rep like @KenaPKK .

idk · October 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Cyrodiil is clearly intended for large-scale combat. There are base camps, faction zones, strategic choke points, structures that can be captured and held, a rapid deployment network (i.e. transitus), supply stations (farm, mill, mine), and so on. I find it curious that people demand small-scale combat in Cyro when the map isn't setup that way. But whatever.

+1

Sharee · October 2018

templesus wrote: »

If you’ve ever uttered anything along the lines of “Cyrodiil is meant for large scale fights” or “You shouldn’t be able to 1vx go duel or do bugs” then

Waiting for an explanation why thinking such a thing would be wrong...

templesus wrote: »

you’re likely a cloak spamming snipe spammer who runs in a 24 man and thinks Xv1ing and chasing someone for 10 minutes until you kill them is fun and engaging gameplay.

... nope, just insults.

Sevn · October 2018

Sharee wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

If you’ve ever uttered anything along the lines of “Cyrodiil is meant for large scale fights” or “You shouldn’t be able to 1vx go duel or do bugs” then

Waiting for an explanation why thinking such a thing would be wrong...

templesus wrote: »

you’re likely a cloak spamming snipe spammer who runs in a 24 man and thinks Xv1ing and chasing someone for 10 minutes until you kill them is fun and engaging gameplay.

... nope, just insults.

What's funny is the only pvp exposure I saw before I played was these large awesome battles taking place, looked like it was hundreds of them fighting it out. Apparently if that's what brought you to ESO you're a casual and suck so that's why we enjoy playing cyro the way we saw it advertised. Whatever.

I play BG's and IC for my small scale fix and cyro for that large army versus army fix. I've been in large groups and just got decimated by a handful of better players, maybe some of you just aren't as good as you think you are? Again, whatever, I apologize for nothing for enjoying playing cyro the way I saw it advertised.

Really hope those of you with better manners get some love and find the small scale stuff you are looking for.

radarsu · October 2018

I think nerfing small scale and solo-playing in Cyrodiil is great! That should encourage people to stop going solo and group up instead. In Ebonheart Pact we often have 2 bars of population, around 200+ people running on map and NOT A SINGLE PARTY. Because nobody cares. They prefer 1vX instead.

And how annoying is that - you have a group of 20 people and there is 1 enemy: unstoppable guy with 50% damage reduction, immune to CC all day, running with movement speed fast as light, casting shields or healing for 50% hp with single heal, generally dodging 90% of attacks. He also has great damage on low CP players of course! And 20 guys chase him for 20 mins, until they finally manage to kill him. Definitely NO! One player should not be able to stay immune to CC and run so fast for whole 20 mins fight against 20 people!

But I can agree that stuns and CC are just as broken as CC immunity. In any balanced games like MOBAs etc. 0.5s stun is considered short one. 1s is normal. 1.5-2s is a long stun, and 2.5s is usually the strongest CC in game. And here... Everyone has like 3s stun with 3s root afterwards. So a 6s CC is nothing special.

Instead giving tons of CC immunity and overpowered CC - shortening all CC and CC immunities would make the game much greater.

ItsMeToo · October 2018

This game was designed for zerging. Mobs zerg... NPCs zerg... people zerg.

Syncronaut · October 2018

I think they need to add this to stop people from zerging on strategic locations lol:

Siege weapons are kinda usless.

xshatox · October 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

I see what they are doing killing solo PVP. Nerfmire may be the moment I quit and look for something else to play. I don't see why they are supporting Zerg play because even if I wanted to the damn game is to laggy to get near a dang Zerg. They can't argue that. So what in the heck are they doing to cyrodil?

Because zerg play and zerglings are casuals. ZOS caters to casuals, it's obvious. Just look at rapids not getting the blanket major expedition nerf.

That is how a software life cycle work. The way patch, dlc, and expansion i am guessing they use modified sprint. and it has 1 mantra:
Don't spend 80% of effort to cater 20% revenue/functionalities. Probably that's why the cater to more casual user, unless you are very influential that can influence many users.

Darkenarlol · October 2018

zerg friendly ceiling lowering and floor whatever pleases the zerg

but disappoints 1vXers... who can potentially bring more profit?

20+ happy carebear potatoes who can pwn ex-top player and not be punished for their overal scrubness

or 1 (ok let's say 2-4 as smallscale) uber skilled lads who roflstomping those potatoes again and again

making them cry that ESO is broken and full of cheaters ( yep game mechanics knowledge an using skills instead

of just lighy attacks = cheat. and dare you even mention AC)

again - who can potentially bring more profit? skilled players(1-5% playerbase) or carebear potato scrubs (95%)??

that's your anwer about all changes in ESO.

Darkenarlol · October 2018

radarsu wrote: »

I think nerfing small scale and solo-playing in Cyrodiil is great! That should encourage people to stop going solo and group up instead. In Ebonheart Pact we often have 2 bars of population, around 200+ people running on map and NOT A SINGLE PARTY. Because nobody cares. They prefer 1vX instead.

And how annoying is that - you have a group of 20 people and there is 1 enemy: unstoppable guy with 50% damage reduction, immune to CC all day, running with movement speed fast as light, casting shields or healing for 50% hp with single heal, generally dodging 90% of attacks. He also has great damage on low CP players of course! And 20 guys chase him for 20 mins, until they finally manage to kill him. Definitely NO! One player should not be able to stay immune to CC and run so fast for whole 20 mins fight against 20 people!

But I can agree that stuns and CC are just as broken as CC immunity. In any balanced games like MOBAs etc. 0.5s stun is considered short one. 1s is normal. 1.5-2s is a long stun, and 2.5s is usually the strongest CC in game. And here... Everyone has like 3s stun with 3s root afterwards. So a 6s CC is nothing special.

Instead giving tons of CC immunity and overpowered CC - shortening all CC and CC immunities would make the game much greater.

i really hope that you are joking/trolling...

Jameliel · October 2018

Most organized guild-groups consist of as many stam wardens as possible, complimented by as many healers as possible. Its fun hanging out with the other players, but the game-play and style of fighting is downright boring. Run around with someone calling out directions, find a choke or favorable vantage point and spike back into the enemy while busting ults, shalks and ccs..... ESO gameplay is corny, and its getting even worse with the buff nerfs. Having to buff every few seconds sucks balls. The buttons are unresponsive quite often, especially with all the lag. Have the devs even ever played another decent mmo? Most buffs should last at minimum for several minutes. It's idiotic how you ahve to keep casting them every few seconds in this game.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · October 2018

So will the PvE aspect in Cyrodiil be removed since there’s little to no point trying to do the quests in there with all these changes?

VaranisArano · October 2018

Drummerx04 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I suspect we'll still see plenty of gankers and tower farming small-man groups.

But if you were wanting to 1vX or take your small man and win against larger organized groups, no, I don't think thats going to work out that well.

Mind you, I'm sure that 1vPotatoes and organized small man vs disorganized mob still works okay, within limits, as long as the lag doesnt strike too hard.

It's not that small scalers expect to "win" against an entire enemy faction, but we do expect to have the ability to harass a siege line of inexperienced players and not have set procs completely negate all healing or deal more damage than the actual enemy player does.

We just expect to be able to hold off an unorganized blob of players for more than 2 seconds with kiting, healing, defensive measures, LoS etc... and maybe kill a few that get to far ahead of the mob before getting overwhelmed.

That's fair, small organized groups ought to be able to tackle larger numbers of disorganized opponents.

Tackling large numbers of organized opponents is another matter. I just want to clarify that, because sometimes people get sloppy with defining a zerg. It makes a big difference whether the opponents are a larger disorganized or larger organized group.

Well I'm glad we agree there. The main problem is that organized raids have the tools available to be horrendously imbalanced, and the two primary culprits are actually purge and rapids. Both of these skills (unless something has changed in the last few months) only target group members, so a large guild group with appropriate composition can make themselves nigh imperious to snares, roots, CC, negates, and all other negative effects.

That is such a mind bogglingly unfair mechanical advantage over the unorganized masses. I'm surprised people don't complain more lol

Honestly, thats just one of the benefits of being organized.

Short of removing those skills or some of the benefits of those skills entirely, there's nothing to be done about it. Whether its Eye of the Flame, Proxy Det, Healing Springs, or Rapids, an organized group will always use skills more effectively than a disorganized group. If you nerf what they use, they will adapt better than anyone else. That's been seen with a lot of past Cyrodiil nerfs.

Rapids and Purge are the big standouts because they are two skills that the disorganized zergs have no incentive to use because they are high-cost skills that are designed for a group benefit - basically a waste for zergling or a zerg surfer. I'd be fine if ZOS changed them to benefit people outside of the group - I'd actually prefer that, since it would make my healer better when I want to zerg-surf- but I don't think that would necessarily change the ability of disorganized groups to use them effectively. Players in an organized raid, on the other hand, have the incentive to be team players and cast skills that benefit the group.

So I dont really see a good way to bridge the gap between organized and disorganized groups in a significant way, superior organiztion almost always adapts better and uses skills/sets more effectively, allowing organized groups to fight many more times their own numbers.

Well, okay, ZOS could cap the max group size and force everyone to play small scale. That would do it. But then we've abandoned a core part of Cyrodiil's gameplay and I'm not interested in that.

radarsu · October 2018

So I dont really see a good way to bridge the gap between organized and disorganized groups in a significant way, superior organiztion almost always adapts better and uses skills/sets more effectively, allowing organized groups to fight many more times their own numbers.

Maybe limit skills affecting whole group to affect "up to X closest targets" (smartly those who need purge/shield/heal/whatever). Good X could be 3, 4 or maybe 6 varying from set to set (and from ability to ability).

Also - prevent stacking AoE effects more than 3 or 5 times. Currently when 20 people put some ground AoE it can stack to 20k dmg per second for whoever steps on it. Groups of stacked wardens with permafrost are also superpopular option of exploiting being-organized.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

So will the PvE aspect in Cyrodiil be removed since there’s little to no point trying to do the quests in there with all these changes?

I realize this is your common complaint, having to PVE in a PVP-enabled zone, but what exactly is preventing you from PVEing this time?

Skill changes? You can adapt, like the regular PVPers will.

The map changes? Stock repair kits and prepare for gankers on the goat paths like the regular PVPers will.

None of that is prohibitive to questing in Cyrodiil - if you actually are willing to risk questing in a PVP-enabled zone and willing to adapt to the changes like us Cyrodiil regulars.

Drummerx04 · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I suspect we'll still see plenty of gankers and tower farming small-man groups.

But if you were wanting to 1vX or take your small man and win against larger organized groups, no, I don't think thats going to work out that well.

Mind you, I'm sure that 1vPotatoes and organized small man vs disorganized mob still works okay, within limits, as long as the lag doesnt strike too hard.

It's not that small scalers expect to "win" against an entire enemy faction, but we do expect to have the ability to harass a siege line of inexperienced players and not have set procs completely negate all healing or deal more damage than the actual enemy player does.

We just expect to be able to hold off an unorganized blob of players for more than 2 seconds with kiting, healing, defensive measures, LoS etc... and maybe kill a few that get to far ahead of the mob before getting overwhelmed.

That's fair, small organized groups ought to be able to tackle larger numbers of disorganized opponents.

Tackling large numbers of organized opponents is another matter. I just want to clarify that, because sometimes people get sloppy with defining a zerg. It makes a big difference whether the opponents are a larger disorganized or larger organized group.

Well I'm glad we agree there. The main problem is that organized raids have the tools available to be horrendously imbalanced, and the two primary culprits are actually purge and rapids. Both of these skills (unless something has changed in the last few months) only target group members, so a large guild group with appropriate composition can make themselves nigh imperious to snares, roots, CC, negates, and all other negative effects.

That is such a mind bogglingly unfair mechanical advantage over the unorganized masses. I'm surprised people don't complain more lol

Honestly, thats just one of the benefits of being organized.

Short of removing those skills or some of the benefits of those skills entirely, there's nothing to be done about it. Whether its Eye of the Flame, Proxy Det, Healing Springs, or Rapids, an organized group will always use skills more effectively than a disorganized group. If you nerf what they use, they will adapt better than anyone else. That's been seen with a lot of past Cyrodiil nerfs.

Rapids and Purge are the big standouts because they are two skills that the disorganized zergs have no incentive to use because they are high-cost skills that are designed for a group benefit - basically a waste for zergling or a zerg surfer. I'd be fine if ZOS changed them to benefit people outside of the group - I'd actually prefer that, since it would make my healer better when I want to zerg-surf- but I don't think that would necessarily change the ability of disorganized groups to use them effectively. Players in an organized raid, on the other hand, have the incentive to be team players and cast skills that benefit the group.

So I dont really see a good way to bridge the gap between organized and disorganized groups in a significant way, superior organiztion almost always adapts better and uses skills/sets more effectively, allowing organized groups to fight many more times their own numbers.

Well, okay, ZOS could cap the max group size and force everyone to play small scale. That would do it. But then we've abandoned a core part of Cyrodiil's gameplay and I'm not interested in that.

Yes, that's what I was getting at. Those skills basically need to work for people exterior to the group. I'm cool with them prioritizing group members of course

VaranisArano · October 2018

radarsu wrote: »

So I dont really see a good way to bridge the gap between organized and disorganized groups in a significant way, superior organiztion almost always adapts better and uses skills/sets more effectively, allowing organized groups to fight many more times their own numbers.

Maybe limit skills affecting whole group to affect "up to X closest targets" (smartly those who need purge/shield/heal/whatever). Good X could be 3, 4 or maybe 6 varying from set to set (and from ability to ability).

Smart casting is a possibility, and I considered that. However, an organized group can always say "Players, we need more people to run X skill" and the players will do it because its a team effort. Now, that does come at a cost - obviously more stam players casting rapids means less stam for damage skills, for example, so its a balancing act for the raid. Now, sure, that trade off might be sufficient to lower the effectiveness of the organized raid to a preferred level.

But in the meantime, the disorganized group is like "Rapids, what're Rapids? In combat? It's every man for hinself here!"

So the imbalance between organized and disorganized still persists.

radarsu · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

So the imbalance between organized and disorganized still persists.

I find the imbalance between organized and discorganized groups desireable. Just currently it's a bit too much.

If groups would need to spend more resources for group-oriented skills and stacking 10x same AoE ultimates wouldn't work I think everything would be much better. Still far from perfect, but definitely waaay closer to that.

Also, being in organized group currently often means you are immortal. That's almost an exploit. I've seen plenty of times groups of 20 people running, everyone with incredible amounts of shields from bone wall, gears etc. Felt like everyone had permanent 20k shield renewing every 6 seconds. We swarmed them with group of 70+ zerg people. Fought them for an hour. Couldn't kill a single one. NOT A SINGLE ONE even we generally tried hard to focus on one guy and take him down, nobody was even able to go through shields. That's broken.

SHADOW2KK · October 2018

DanteYoda wrote: »

Stop playing it and things would change. If you don't it wont.

Nothing would change, you clearly do not play PvP.

Crixus8000 · October 2018

I play solo/smallscale and never complain about people zerging or raids or whatever. Even when I'm alone on my mount going somewhere and 30 players charge at me, spamming everything they have, and chasing me untill I'm dead, I still don't complain because it's how they enjoy the game, they like being in big groups, so fine, I'm a friendly player, play how you want.

But The fact that so many ask for nerfs to solo/smallscale players is just pathetic, like really there is 30 of you and you want to nerf that one guy your chasing for 20mins ? And so many agree with it. I wonder what would happen if zos did the opposite, and only nerfed zergs and large groups to the point you couldn't survive against a solo player or small scale, would you be fine with that ? No of course not, but your fine with ruining the gameplay of many people because you can't learn to just walk away instead of chasing across the map, or learn to play instead of spamming light atatcks.

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I play solo/smallscale and never complain about people zerging or raids or whatever. Even when I'm alone on my mount going somewhere and 30 players charge at me, spamming everything they have, and chasing me untill I'm dead, I still don't complain because it's how they enjoy the game, they like being in big groups, so fine, I'm a friendly player, play how you want.

But The fact that so many ask for nerfs to solo/smallscale players is just pathetic, like really there is 30 of you and you want to nerf that one guy your chasing for 20mins ? And so many agree with it. I wonder what would happen if zos did the opposite, and only nerfed zergs and large groups to the point you couldn't survive against a solo player or small scale, would you be fine with that ? No of course not, but your fine with ruining the gameplay of many people because you can't learn to just walk away instead of chasing across the map, or learn to play instead of spamming light atatcks.

Hmm, this could be an interesting change to Battle-spirit. You start off with max buffs and dmg resistance which is incrementally decreased to zero as more players are added to the raid. The individual max buff/debuff might need to be changed from what it is currently (like 10k extra health, no shield reduction, 50% damage taken, 100% damage done, additional ulti regen, etc.). The final numbers would need testing and tweaking.

This would give the solo and small-scale players a needed handicap to withstand a zerg. In turn, zergs would be at an individual disadvantage but would still be strong as a group. I wonder if this would actually discourage zergs and encourage more organized groups.

"But what about scouts?", you say. Scouts run solo or paired and 1) form a Discord/Teamspeak channel for comms to the larger group, 2) utilize guild chat, 3) use zone chat.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on that. Keep it civil

radarsu · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

But The fact that so many ask for nerfs to solo/smallscale players is just pathetic, like really there is 30 of you and you want to nerf that one guy your chasing for 20mins ? And so many agree with it.

Yes, because a group of 30 players should be able to deal with 1 guy in no time. Not 20 minutes.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if zos did the opposite, and only nerfed zergs and large groups to the point you couldn't survive against a solo player or small scale, would you be fine with that ?

People without proper builds would just quit Cyrodiil, create new "meta" characters and set up a meta build to be just as strong as solo guys. Cyrodiil would change into 1v1 battleground of equally builded characters.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

No of course not, but your fine with ruining the gameplay of many people because you can't learn to just walk away instead of chasing across the map, or learn to play instead of spamming light atatcks.

If "the gameplay of many people" is based on exploiting bugged, overpowered or unbalanced mechanics like current evasion, roll-dodge, CC immunity and extreme movement speed, then yeah!

Do you think that amongst all the "zerglings" everyone is an awful player that can't press keys? That misses skills, rotation, doesn't know how and when to dodge? When to use which skills, how to counter some attacks etc? The answe is NO. Of course, maybe half of people are, but in a group of 20 zerglings there are at least 4 to 6 quite well skilled players, that just do not run the overpowered evasion roll-dodge dawnbreaker build.

VaranisArano · October 2018

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I play solo/smallscale and never complain about people zerging or raids or whatever. Even when I'm alone on my mount going somewhere and 30 players charge at me, spamming everything they have, and chasing me untill I'm dead, I still don't complain because it's how they enjoy the game, they like being in big groups, so fine, I'm a friendly player, play how you want.

But The fact that so many ask for nerfs to solo/smallscale players is just pathetic, like really there is 30 of you and you want to nerf that one guy your chasing for 20mins ? And so many agree with it. I wonder what would happen if zos did the opposite, and only nerfed zergs and large groups to the point you couldn't survive against a solo player or small scale, would you be fine with that ? No of course not, but your fine with ruining the gameplay of many people because you can't learn to just walk away instead of chasing across the map, or learn to play instead of spamming light atatcks.

Hmm, this could be an interesting change to Battle-spirit. You start off with max buffs and dmg resistance which is incrementally decreased to zero as more players are added to the raid. The individual max buff/debuff might need to be changed from what it is currently (like 10k extra health, no shield reduction, 50% damage taken, 100% damage done, additional ulti regen, etc.). The final numbers would need testing and tweaking.

This would give the solo and small-scale players a needed handicap to withstand a zerg. In turn, zergs would be at an individual disadvantage but would still be strong as a group. I wonder if this would actually discourage zergs and encourage more organized groups.

"But what about scouts?", you say. Scouts run solo or paired and 1) form a Discord/Teamspeak channel for comms to the larger group, 2) utilize guild chat, 3) use zone chat.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on that. Keep it civil

I don't think it makes sense in Cyrodiil, which is designed to have important objectives which draw large numbers of players.

I also dont think it it accounts for how disorganized zergs actually work. There's a joke I make: "DC doesnt zerg! Those are all 4-man squads, all 20 of them at the same keep!"

Do you really want to buff zerg-surfers? Because thats exactly who gets the most benefit from that suggestion.

JimmyJuJu · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I play solo/smallscale and never complain about people zerging or raids or whatever. Even when I'm alone on my mount going somewhere and 30 players charge at me, spamming everything they have, and chasing me untill I'm dead, I still don't complain because it's how they enjoy the game, they like being in big groups, so fine, I'm a friendly player, play how you want.

But The fact that so many ask for nerfs to solo/smallscale players is just pathetic, like really there is 30 of you and you want to nerf that one guy your chasing for 20mins ? And so many agree with it. I wonder what would happen if zos did the opposite, and only nerfed zergs and large groups to the point you couldn't survive against a solo player or small scale, would you be fine with that ? No of course not, but your fine with ruining the gameplay of many people because you can't learn to just walk away instead of chasing across the map, or learn to play instead of spamming light atatcks.

Hmm, this could be an interesting change to Battle-spirit. You start off with max buffs and dmg resistance which is incrementally decreased to zero as more players are added to the raid. The individual max buff/debuff might need to be changed from what it is currently (like 10k extra health, no shield reduction, 50% damage taken, 100% damage done, additional ulti regen, etc.). The final numbers would need testing and tweaking.

This would give the solo and small-scale players a needed handicap to withstand a zerg. In turn, zergs would be at an individual disadvantage but would still be strong as a group. I wonder if this would actually discourage zergs and encourage more organized groups.

"But what about scouts?", you say. Scouts run solo or paired and 1) form a Discord/Teamspeak channel for comms to the larger group, 2) utilize guild chat, 3) use zone chat.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on that. Keep it civil

I don't think it makes sense in Cyrodiil, which is designed to have important objectives which draw large numbers of players.

I also dont think it it accounts for how disorganized zergs actually work. There's a joke I make: "DC doesnt zerg! Those are all 4-man squads, all 20 of them at the same keep!"

Do you really want to buff zerg-surfers? Because thats exactly who gets the most benefit from that suggestion.

True. Zerg surfers would be the lion amongst the sheep in that scenario. I still do think there needs to be diminishing returns for running larger groups. Not necessarily a nerf to groups, but not giving any extra advantages either.

Hurtfan · October 2018

Leave Cyrodiil alone, except if you want to fix the lag.

PvErs and now "small groupers" want to change it.

NO

Edit: want to add, I solo Cyrodiil a lot, I know what I'm in for.

eso_lags · October 2018

therift wrote: »

Cyrodiil is an army zone, as far as I'm concerned. Small groups and solo players do so at their own risk, knowing full well that armies roam the battlefield.

It's disingenuous to think that Cyrodiil should be gimped to support small groups or solo players. Adapt to the battlefield, or try BGs and dueling.

This is the main problem and the mindset of far too many people. Instead of players wanting everyone to be able to play they only think of what they want. Their class, their playstyle, pve vs pvp... Its sad really.

People have been zerging since the game was released. This has never changed. More numbers has always meant more strength in this game. The difference is that solo players have been constantly screwed over since one tamriel.

I just made a thread on the pts section about this. And the point is that it has been death by a thousand cuts. Every little nerf or stupid set they put in this game hurts solo players more than anything. For example the immovable nerf. Small, but it hurt solo players the most. Or the nerf to cost reduction CP... Or any proc set ever put in the game... Or this nerf to foward momentum..

It doesnt matter when you are 24 people fighting lag and another 24 people. And honestly its disingenuous to think that your play style is the only one that matters. Not many solo players have asked for much in this game, as far as solo pvp goes. Ive heard some people ask for groups to get a damage debuff depending on the group size, but thats not going to happen..

Most of us just dont want to have our play style completely killed for the sake of keeping brainless zerglings entertained. The advantage is already with the zerg. But its too late. Too many nerfs, too many broken sets.. Instead of doing what they've done they should have just put new classes in to entertain these people. The game is already not balanced so at least it would have been fun..

Or maybe it is finally time to give solo players something. Because from where im playing this is the only play style in this game that has literally been destroyed and nearly driven out. No matter what else you do in eso, even if its changed a little bit, you can still do it. The same cannot be said for solo pvp. The change is extremely drastic.

And yes i know you can try, I still do it, but 99% of the time its just getting zerged down or dying to lag. Like i said, the change has been far too drastic.