It's time to address earthgore

Haashhtaag · October 2018

This set is getting out of hand. I was playing last night and no matter where I attacked being a larger group or a smaller group just about every player I DB'd or burst had earthgore proc on them. This set is still severely over performing and carrying groups in regards to survival. IMO survival should come from smart healing from healers, self buffs, and etc. To be constantly saved by an earthgore proc' when you get a group of 10 down to execute range is absurd.

Haashhtaag · October 2018

IDK how to post a picture.

https://imgur.com/a/azbKUym

AcadianPaladin · October 2018

My healer will surrender Earthgore if all dps surrender all dps proc sets. Deal?

Joshlenoir · October 2018

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My healer will surrender Earthgore if all dps surrender all dps proc sets. Deal?

if you need earthgore to outheal dps proc sets you're not a good healer.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Earthgore is one of those sets that's good in moderation, but a pain in the butt if the enemy group can keep enough sets off of the cooldown.

Xsorus · October 2018

Earthgore has been stupid hand holding for bad zerg groups for a long time..they just let more people have it.

Silver_Strider · October 2018

Meh, it already got nerfed once before so I don't feel the need to get it nerfed again, especially since it's only useful if multiple proc at once, else someone can easily out damage the heal or just flat out kill you before it even starts to heal.

WeylandLabs · October 2018

Nerf it to OP OMG !!!!

Donny_Vito · October 2018

Joshlenoir wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My healer will surrender Earthgore if all dps surrender all dps proc sets. Deal?

if you need earthgore to outheal dps proc sets you're not a good healer.

I think you missed his argument (satire, honestly). He wasn't saying he can't outheal the DPS proc from sets, or needs the earthgore to proc in order to heal someone.

John_Falstaff · October 2018

@Haashhtaag , nerf to shields officially was advertised as "counterplay against shield abilities" (quote from announcement on the site), so it's a PvP-driven change.

Why oh why ZOS won't make a list of sets that lose effect in Cyrodiil, then PvP people would be able to keep happily playing their favorite "ban all those people I can't kill from using such-and-such sets" game without making life in PvE harder by the day.

Feanor · October 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Haashhtaag , nerf to shields officially was advertised as "counterplay against shield abilities" (quote from announcement on the site), so it's a PvP-driven change.

Why oh why ZOS won't make a list of sets that lose effect in Cyrodiil, then PvP people would be able to keep happily playing their favorite "ban all those people I can't kill from using such-and-such sets" game without making life in PvE harder by the day.

That’s just not true. Rob Garret wrote the following:

First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

So can we stop blaming PvP for everything?

usmguy1234 · October 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Haashhtaag , nerf to shields officially was advertised as "counterplay against shield abilities" (quote from announcement on the site), so it's a PvP-driven change.

Why oh why ZOS won't make a list of sets that lose effect in Cyrodiil, then PvP people would be able to keep happily playing their favorite "ban all those people I can't kill from using such-and-such sets" game without making life in PvE harder by the day.

Actually before that they made mention of shields making healers feel not needed in pve content. The counterplay piece was added after that.

radarsu · October 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Haashhtaag , nerf to shields officially was advertised as "counterplay against shield abilities" (quote from announcement on the site), so it's a PvP-driven change.

Why oh why ZOS won't make a list of sets that lose effect in Cyrodiil, then PvP people would be able to keep happily playing their favorite "ban all those people I can't kill from using such-and-such sets" game without making life in PvE harder by the day.

1. It's about consistency and keeping game as simple as possible and easy to understand for new players. Splitting game into PvP and PvE sets, statistics etc. is a bad idea. That would mean any new player would have a learning curve equal to playing 2 different games. BIG NO for creating only-PVP-rules or sets.

2. Because PvE content is considered EASY by 90% of community. There are no real challange in bosses, especially when you have golden gear and capped CP. Even if there is a hard boss - it's just a matter of practice. You can always understand his mechanics to perfection, then he won't surprise and outplay you. There is no such thing as "overpowered/imbalanced/unbeatable boss" so far in the game. And in Player vs Player scenario when something is broken, there is. How would PvE player feel if the boss would have some OP mechanics that everytime you take him down to 50% he heals up to 100% while there is not a single mechanics countering that thing? Undoable dungeon wouldn't be fun and in PvP if ANYTHING is overpowered - everyone starts using it. And everyone using an exploid/overpowered thing is same as an unbeatable bugged boss would be for PvE.

I generally agree Earthgore is a bit too good. It should be nerfed a little (maybe to 20k from 30k), but generally healers require better variety of Monster Sets. Most of Monster Sets used by healers are either useless or have nothing to do with healing.

usmguy1234 · October 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

This set is getting out of hand. I was playing last night and no matter where I attacked being a larger group or a smaller group just about every player I DB'd or burst had earthgore proc on them. This set is still severely over performing and carrying groups in regards to survival. IMO survival should come from smart healing from healers, self buffs, and etc. To be constantly saved by an earthgore proc' when you get a group of 10 down to execute range is absurd.

I agree 100%. All brainless proc sets should be erased from the game. They should have some human element to all of them. The reason being is that humans make mistakes which means that these sets would have counterplay which is very limited or flat out non-existent at this point.

For example earthgore should be a synergy set that needs to be activated for healing.... similar to the templar cleanse.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Kurat wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Do you pvp mfers ever just shut up?

Waaa waaaa waaaaa

That's all yall EVER post. FFS.

Excactly. All nerfs start from pvp. Pve exists as well.
Earthgore is a good failsafe when healing pugs in dungeons and trials. Leave it alone.

Wanna bet Molag Kena and the other dungeon bosses whine about Earthgore?

"Devs, Earthgore is carrying PUGs through our dungeon so we can't kill them! Wahhh!"

John_Falstaff · October 2018

@Feanor , that was already later, when ZOS was in damage control mode. So I'm not quite convinced we've heard the full truth about what motivated them. If they cared about damage output versus survivability, they'd first addressed stamina woes in Cloudrest and Asylum where it has neither, but it's clearly nothing that occupies their minds.

ZOS_JesC · October 2018

Greetings, we've removed a few baiting and insulting comments. This is a reminder that comments need to remain constructive and civil.

AcadianPaladin · October 2018

Joshlenoir wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My healer will surrender Earthgore if all dps surrender all dps proc sets. Deal?

if you need earthgore to outheal dps proc sets you're not a good healer.

Heh, satire indeed. I'm a fine healer and only play PvE. Earthgore is a perfectly good choice of monster set for a healer - both perks support a healer reasonably well.

I wasn't advertising my reluctance to give up Earthgore; rather, I was advertising my dislike for all proc sets. I would be happy to see all proc sets go away and be perfectly willing to give up Earthgore as part of that.

There is more to the game than PvP and I'm not real pleased to see requests for nerfs that are PvP-inspired when there is no problem in PvE. I've maintained for a long time that the solution is to balance PvP and PvE separately.

p00tx · October 2018

Sooo...should we just stand there and let ourselves be killed?

Ffs...if we did what every complainer demanded, every healer would be in light armor, no shields, only using Ritual of Retribution and Combat Prayer because everything else has been deemed OP or a "crutch", never moving, and never allowed to stand closer that 10m from our teammates. In fact, we wouldn't be allowed to have teammates because "Git gud scrub, no one with any talent plays in groups. That solo lyf yo". Would that make it easier for your group of one or two to kill our group of 15? Is that how this game is going to go?

Earthgore is basically an extra shot of Mutagen once you factor in the Battle Spirit reduction, the near constant defile dots, and the latest nerfs to it. It's not that big of a deal and feels neutered, but it's the best group heal monster set that we have right now, so of course we're going to use it. What kind of idiot wouldn't? It is absolutely possible to kill a group that has Earthgore healers, but it requires smart play, planning ahead, and more than just rapid cloak-spamming Snipe or beetles/DB/Spin-to-win and chugging speed pots.

PS. If every healer in the group is wearing Earthgore, they're either an unorganized PuG who didn't plan ahead, or they have no idea what they're doing. If you can't kill either of those things, the problem isn't the Earthgore.

IlCanis_LupuslI · October 2018

As soon as they nerf spin2win & dbos, deal?

DeadlyRecluse · October 2018

It's nerfed form is relatively innocuous, it's not hard to kill through a single proc (or set up burst during the proc to land after). Like so many things in this game, it becomes it's own variety of cheese when stacked and you essentially can't work around the cooldown.

On the other hand, it's an actual useful monster set for healers, which is cool. It needs to be called Bloodspawn, though, as it spawns blood (while Bloodspawn covers you with earth when gored). ZOS name game 0/10.

code65536 · October 2018

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Hello, it looks like you are attempting to make a "nerf" thread. Please select the following so that I may assist:

[ ] This thing kills me, so it must be nerfed.
[X] I cannot kill this thing, so it must be nerfed.

code65536 · October 2018

radarsu wrote: »

Because PvE content is considered EASY by 90% of community.

@radarsu I take it you haven't done many random vets via the Group Finder and seen the people who do 10-15K DPS in a dungeon even though they are at CP cap? I take it you didn't watch the ZOS devs complete the first hunt only 3 times out of 14 attempts in vMoS HM on ESO Live? I take it you didn't watch the ZOS devs wipe in normal Cloudrest +3 on ESO Live?

The only people who think PvE is easy are the people who choose to only engage in the easy content. Yea, it's easy if all you do is quest all day. But you know what else is easy? Go queue for battlegrounds as an experienced PvPer on a new toon. The new character has a low MMR, so it's pitted against other players with low MMR. It's like shooting fish in a barrel--just as easy as overland PvE. But you wouldn't make balancing decisions based on those kinds of matchups, now would you? Just as you wouldn't make balancing decisions based on how easy overland PvE is.

Koolio · October 2018

Stop it from negating ultimates

Thogard · October 2018

The interesting thing about earthgore is that the PvP players who use it and defend it all have one thing in common.

p00tx · October 2018

Thogard wrote: »

The interesting thing about earthgore is that the PvP players who use it and defend it all have one thing in common.

We're all healers?

We all have sufficient social skills to be able to make friends and play in groups?

Oh...were you making a thinly veiled attempt at insulting us in a passive aggressive manner, even though you lack any sort of reliable data to back up your statement? That's cute.

idk · October 2018

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My healer will surrender Earthgore if all dps surrender all dps proc sets. Deal?

This is a pretty good point.

OP wants healing to come from smart healing. When do we get smart DPS? Oh, we had that just over 3 years ago before the onslaught of gear proc sets.

GreenHere · October 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Hello, it looks like you are attempting to make a "nerf" thread. Please select the following so that I may assist:

[ ] This thing kills me, so it must be nerfed.
[X] I cannot kill this thing, so it must be nerfed.

Haha, you're old! You remember Clippy!

...wait...

GreenHere · October 2018

I like Earthgore, and don't want to see it gutted. I wouldn't even nominate for nerfs, necessarily. But what the hell, we're already here!

- Reduce the radius by 1 meter. It's kinda big.
- Insert a 1 second delay from when it procs to when the healing starts.

What do you Earthgore haters think about that? Honestly trying to find middle ground; how does this strike you?

I meet a LOT of seeming unkillable folks in PvP, and few of those encounters involve Earthgore. I know it saves butts on the regular in groups and whatnot, but I don't know why it should be singled out quite like it is. Organized play and experienced players with good defensive setups are going to outplay you; Earthgore or no.

radarsu · October 2018

code65536 wrote: »

@radarsu I take it you haven't done many random vets via the Group Finder and seen the people who do 10-15K DPS in a dungeon even though they are at CP cap? I take it you didn't watch the ZOS devs complete the first hunt only 3 times out of 14 attempts in vMoS HM on ESO Live? I take it you didn't watch the ZOS devs wipe in normal Cloudrest +3 on ESO Live?

Done all Veteran Dungeons without a set, with random items (I'm a heal though, so I could do it this way). And I only use Group Finder. Also - I lack only Bloodroot Forge hard mode and one with 3 Werewolfs. Yeah, we wiped sometimes 30x or more each on Bloodroot Forge and some others too. But we did it. Was it hard? No. We just had poor dps.0 understanding of mechanics etc. etc. With good players and capped CP dps ESO dungeons are not even close to hardest dungeons I know from other games. And you're asking to make end-game content easier... I say no. I'm a freakin tryhard. I want it harder. Because it's all matter of knowing dungeon mechanics and your rotation (you cannot learn to outplay all players in same way). Easy and fun to learn. So I want it tough. Would love "nightmare" mode with CP disabled or just empowered bosses introduced in dungeons too.

code65536 wrote: »

The only people who think PvE is easy are the people who choose to only engage in the easy content. Yea, it's easy if all you do is quest all day. But you know what else is easy? Go queue for battlegrounds as an experienced PvPer on a new toon. The new character has a low MMR, so it's pitted against other players with low MMR. It's like shooting fish in a barrel--just as easy as overland PvE. But you wouldn't make balancing decisions based on those kinds of matchups, now would you? Just as you wouldn't make balancing decisions based on how easy overland PvE is.

I'm always going for hardest possible content. Always. Never giving up, even if wiping endlessly until I learn. I totally don't fit your description.

My balancing decisions DO CONSIDER hardest content in game. And people in poles said they find content in game easy, these are not just my words.

It's true that some content to be done with inexperienced 300 cp people is extremaly tough. But replace 300 cp people with everyone max CP and it goes from "extremaly tough" to "casual".

Haashhtaag · October 2018

p00tx wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

The interesting thing about earthgore is that the PvP players who use it and defend it all have one thing in common.

We're all healers?

We all have sufficient social skills to be able to make friends and play in groups?

Oh...were you making a thinly veiled attempt at insulting us in a passive aggressive manner, even though you lack any sort of reliable data to back up your statement? That's cute.

There are tons of non healers wearing the set....that's how you know the set is broken...

Thogard has lots of friends, I'll send you a discord invite if you want to come defend earthgore in it vs his friends.