Why are MagDKs able to shut down a magblade completely?

ak_pvp · October 2018

Brrrofski wrote: »

I do find it kinda stupid that crushing shock isn't reflectable but swallow soul is.

Swallow Soul should literally be you siphoning life from someone.

It's a ball that goes to the enemy and pulls back life force. You can see as much in the animation. It is a bit harder to see now they sped it up, but it's still there.

Scarpion · October 2018

Every class has it's strength and weaknesses. The setup you have used, destruction staff magblade's weakness is magdks with wings, while you're strong vs every single other spec in the game.

If you go for a melee magblade setup, you're strong vs magdks, but weak vs other specs.

sly007 · October 2018

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?

you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?

Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?

Cloak is not balanced. I can never hit a mag nb using cloak with my 2h and bow stamina dk. It sucks because the nb just kites me and snares me, dealing 4k with swallow soul, 12k with bow, and 7k with cripple. I can't block because it drains my resources, I can roll dodge because it drains me resources too quickly. I just end up dying because I cant fight back. Please ZOS, balance cloak.

To make matters worse, the second I get a hit in, the nb just shield stacks with that 50k+ maximum magicka. I cant any anything. Cloak is broken. Someone give me some advise.

TheShadowScout · October 2018

A DKs wingy effectiveness depends entirely upon your load.

I learned this PvPlaying my MagSorc... now, I love me some dark crystals on that character for fluff reasons, and when I ran into a DK way back when, I think it was in Chorrel while doing dailies, it was... very, very painful. All my spells being thrown back into my face with a beat of the wings, and then getting a blue respawn screen without even scratching the darn brute...
...
...and so I got frustrated (teabagging may or may not have been involved), thought about it, picked up a lightning staff, changed my sorc boys loadout, slotted mines, and curses, and lightning strikes, and AoEs... and went back... and found the exact same DK as he was turning in a quest.
That fight went -exactly- the opposite way. (and I am definitely only an barely adequate PvPlayer, at best!)

And any magbklade can do the same, they also have their share of AoE abilities, they also can pick up a lightning staff, they also can change their loadout to the fight at hand, instead of demanding that one tool be able to do every job...
...relying on just one trick is not the best tactic in the face of changing circumstances!

(Just like that DK back then seems to have overly relied on his wings, and failed when I spelled around them...)

EmEm_Oh · October 2018

quadraxis666 wrote: »

Because DK's are 62% beefier and 89% burlier, also 47% more muscular and 78% more vascular than NB's. DK's can also grow bushier, more luxurious beards.

That's why.

Stop it. You're making sense.

EmEm_Oh · October 2018

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?

you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?

Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?

Hit them when they don't expect it.

You're a blade.

Also, DKs cannot keep their wings up continuously. Find that weak spot. Attack. I do it on my magblade and have no issues.

However, I also realize I cannot kill anyone I wish. Many are superior than I am.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · October 2018

amg reading how people think magblade is the easiest class makes me lol... sure it might be easy overall but to master it? gl with that also people who complain they fight magblades and get away via cloak as magdk they clearly have no idea how to play mag dk...cuz as far as I know it takes 1 dot to make you unable to cloak let aside the fact that dks are demigods of dots...on top of invi detect pots...so yes as many others already stated on this thread...learn your class and cry less.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

MagDK doesn't need a nerf but far too much of the Magblade's attacks are reflectable. Swallow Soul & cripple should not be projectiles

SHADOW2KK · October 2018

Attention ZoS, OP clearly wants everthing nerfed, since you pander to casuals, ya should

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2018

They are like the steel tornado of DKs.

ol_BANK_lo · October 2018

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?

you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?

Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?

Ugh

regime211 · October 2018

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?

you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?

Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?

[("D.R.A.G.O.N")] They HAVE WINGS, so what are we supposed to stand their and let you dps us down? MagDks have taken huge nerfs, please leave my beast alone for gods sake.

LegacyDM · October 2018

Because Zos wants to force everyone to use crushing shock. Have you not seen the rediculous nerfs to strife In the past 2 years? It’s clear they want strife to be a pve skill.

LegacyDM · October 2018

BigBragg wrote: »

Concealed Weapon from stealth. Proffit. You're welcome.

Lol what? Concealed weapon hits like a noodle. After dk resistances and battle spirit your going to tickle a DK as they roll stomp you with talons, petrify, lash, Skoria, and leap. Your gonna be too busy just trying to survive burning stamina from roll dodgeing or mist forming away trying to survive.

LegacyDM · October 2018

adeptusminor wrote: »

In the amount of time I assume it took you to compose this post, 6 seconds or so, a DK's wings would have expired and you would have been able to drop some serious damage on them.

Um no. A good DK will never let wings expire, has enough resistances to soak up the burst and heal up. Then go on the offensive as you try to scramble away and recover.

LegacyDM · October 2018

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Dude plays a Nightblade, the strongest class in the game. And he's whining about Dragonknights, the weakest class in the game. This is just gold.

What makes you think mageblades are the strongest pvp class in the game? Any class wearing heavy armor and bleeds is the strongest class in the game right now. Which a mageblade does not.

pod88kk · October 2018

Sounds like a l2p issue to me

Lutallo · October 2018

Impossible to kill a perma-block magdk on basically anything but a bleed/DoT build. They have no mobility though so I would recommend you run and find a different match up.

ak_pvp · October 2018

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

amg reading how people think magblade is the easiest class makes me lol... sure it might be easy overall but to master it? gl with that also people who complain they fight magblades and get away via cloak as magdk they clearly have no idea how to play mag dk...cuz as far as I know it takes 1 dot to make you unable to cloak let aside the fact that dks are demigods of dots...on top of invi detect pots...so yes as many others already stated on this thread...learn your class and cry less.

Yikes. You don't get this at all do you.
You know dots don't uncloak you. Infact, dots don't even deal damage though cloak. So yeah, DK deals nothing at all to a cloaking NB. DK also does technically have the most dots, but most are secondary, (entropy, volatile, burning, burning talons) and are weaker than stam ones like bleeds/poison injection.

Ashilda_Dragonheart · October 2018

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?

you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?

Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?

I don't play PvP yet, but that sounds unfair. If you can't do anything to defend yourself, it's basically like paralysis. I don't think that's fair for PvP.

Waseem · October 2018

Mag DK must remain best class for PvP especially with S/B
what else would streamers play? gankblade? XD

kypranb14_ESO · October 2018

Believe it or not, every class can counter projectile builds.

Nightblade - Cloak (makes you invisible/untargetable, causing all incoming projectiles to "miss", and suppresses DoTs for up to 2.9 seconds unless revealed) | 4,050 Magicka Cost

Dragon Knight - Wings (Reflects up to 4 projectiles over 6 seconds) | 3,780 Magicka Cost

Sorcerer - Ball of Lightning (Shortest Duration with increased cost for spamming, however absorbs infinite projectiles over 1.8 seconds) | 3,780 Magicka Cost

Templar - Eclipse (Can be broken with Break Free or any method of purging, arguably the weakest counter to Projectiles. However, reflects some Magic damage for all Direct Damage) | 4,051 Magicka Cost

Warden - Crystallized Shield (Asborbs up to X damage from 3 projectiles over 6 seconds) | 3,240 Magicka Cost

Not to Mention Sword & Board has a stamina skill that reflects the next projectile that hits you, and stuns the attacker.

*Disclaimer- Costs were taken from the wiki and may be inaccurate.
**EDIT changed wording on Nightblade's Cloak to provide a more accurate statement as to what it does.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?

you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?

Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?

I don't play PvP yet, but that sounds unfair. If you can't do anything to defend yourself, it's basically like paralysis. I don't think that's fair for PvP.

So, here's the thing. Its not that Magblades can't do anything to defend themselves against a big nasty MagDK with wings up in PVP.

Its that the Magblade in question didn't bother to slot any skills that aren't reflectable. If you've been reading this thread, you've seen multiple suggestions for what skills the Magblade could slot. If you haven't, reread because there's some good advice for when you start to PVP and have to deal with MagDKs with wings.

If you only slot reflectable skills, don't be surprised you get wrecked by a class that can reflect.

Think of it like rolling into vMA with no self-heals. You'd better be really really good, or you will be very very dead.

So my advice for when you start to PVP? If you build something that's overspecialized, you will dominate most encounters and then get wrecked by something that perfectly counters your overspecialized build. Like scissors meeting a rock.

Elrond87 · October 2018

they cant keep wing up all time tap some light restro hits to remove it then get the bow in

Maryal · October 2018

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Believe it or not, every class can counter projectile builds.

Nightblade - Cloak (Negates all single target direct damage, and suppresses DoTs for up to 2.9 seconds unless revealed) | 4,050 Magicka Cost

Dragon Knight - Wings (Reflects up to 4 projectiles over 6 seconds) | 3,780 Magicka Cost

Sorcerer - Ball of Lightning (Shortest Duration with increased cost for spamming, however absorbs infinite projectiles over 1.8 seconds) | 3,780 Magicka Cost

Templar - Eclipse (Can be broken with Break Free or any method of purging, arguably the weakest counter to Projectiles. However, reflects some Magic damage for all Direct Damage) | 4,051 Magicka Cost

Warden - Crystallized Shield (Asborbs up to X damage from 3 projectiles over 6 seconds) | 3,240 Magicka Cost

Not to Mention Sword & Board has a stamina skill that reflects the next projectile that hits you, and stuns the attacker.

*Disclaimer- Costs were taken from the wiki and may be inaccurate.

I don't think cloak 'negates all single target direct damage' .. it does, however, supress DOTS while cloaked. Using cloak makes you invisible, which means you can't be targeted ... unless, of course, you have been detected despite being cloaked.

Jeremy · October 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

So how can it be okay that a magdk is able to shut down a magblade completely by using wings?

you CANT attack them and if you do it gets reflected hurting YOURSELF while they are putting you on the defense like that they are still able to dish out HUGE dps while you cant do ANYTHING. how is that BALANCED?

Cripple a projectile? Swallow Soul a projectile??? Seriously?

Dragon Knights are by far the strongest class I've gone up against in PvP. Unless you gear almost exclusively for defense they will slaughter you.

I don't believe the solution is to nerf them. But they should certainly give players stronger defensive options to deal with them. I would recommend anyone who prioritizes PvP on this game to roll as a Dragon Knight.

Dragonknights only overperform when it comes to tanking aspect(Its the main tanking class after all) and shutting down projectile builds(mainly magDks are good at this, but even then a magblade can always slot force pulse or melee abilities. Counterplay exists.)

Yes, dragonknights are not weak wimps, but they are definitely not the strongest, stamDk is not even close since morrowind nerfs, and magDk was considered a meme class not a long while ago.

I don't understand posts like these. Do you realize how friggen strong wardens and nightblades are right now?

To say they are not "weak wimps" is the understatement of the year.

I rarely encounter wardens and in my experience Nightblades don't have the raw power that Dragon Knights do. A well-played Dragon Knight hits insanely hard, has great defenses, and literally just mows other players down like a hot knife through butter. Back when I was trying to make a healer work in PvP - it was Dragon Knights that convinced me of that folly.

So I'm sorry you don't understand my post. But when it comes to PvP - my experiences have taught me that Dragon Knight is the superior class. No other class has such a potent combination of offense and defense. I have watched them systematically wreck incoming players like someone was pitching them nerf balls and they are without doubt the King of melee. I had to builk my Templar up to crazy defensive proportions just to survive an encounter with one.

CompM4s · October 2018

Its basically rock paper scissors, I try to build my pvp characters to hold its own against most, but some characters just match up better.

Sevn · October 2018

This went from nerf DK's wings to nerf cloak in no time! Impressive.

kypranb14_ESO · October 2018

Maryal wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Believe it or not, every class can counter projectile builds.

Nightblade - Cloak (Negates all single target direct damage, and suppresses DoTs for up to 2.9 seconds unless revealed) | 4,050 Magicka Cost

Dragon Knight - Wings (Reflects up to 4 projectiles over 6 seconds) | 3,780 Magicka Cost

Sorcerer - Ball of Lightning (Shortest Duration with increased cost for spamming, however absorbs infinite projectiles over 1.8 seconds) | 3,780 Magicka Cost

Templar - Eclipse (Can be broken with Break Free or any method of purging, arguably the weakest counter to Projectiles. However, reflects some Magic damage for all Direct Damage) | 4,051 Magicka Cost

Warden - Crystallized Shield (Asborbs up to X damage from 3 projectiles over 6 seconds) | 3,240 Magicka Cost

Not to Mention Sword & Board has a stamina skill that reflects the next projectile that hits you, and stuns the attacker.

*Disclaimer- Costs were taken from the wiki and may be inaccurate.

I don't think cloak 'negates all single target direct damage' .. it does, however, supress DOTS while cloaked. Using cloak makes you invisible, which means you can't be targeted ... unless, of course, you have been detected despite being cloaked.

You're right, I fixed it. I was preparing for work and my original post was a little rushed.

RamiroCruzo · October 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

How bout try playing a non-vamp MagDK open world solo and comeback here and tell us how great it is. Most folks couldn’t handle it because it’s not easy, the margin for error is very small and mistakes are costly, and you can,tjust run away when your losing or being zerged either.

mDK, light armor, non-Vamp, I survive, and I only use Wings against Big Boss's Zerg, thanks to his potato backseaters who spam Destructive Clench all the time.

Even though its a waste of time bashing head trying to explain it to someone who's famous for raging and just yelling, a good magblade never uses any of the skills head on as you said, they'll make you run out of resources in Cloak, Light Attacking with Resto (Not Reflectable), moment Wings is down, Assassins Will, 6k-11k hit, then start again and will throw fear in btw to use Soul Harvest without any danger of Fossilize.

L2p? Nah, "LFM", "FOR THE QUEEN", etc are better