What is with the ebon set?

kylewwefan · October 2018

Ebon loses out on smaller group stuff imo. Try Galenwe/Alkosh.

If you’re pugging it and not getting much Synergy even Alkosh isn’t so great. Maybe use something else.

If you run no healer, maybe Galenwe/Olorime?

Tanking in ESO is much more about controlling priority targets. Don’t die. Stack em up if you can. Prosper.

I’ve been using a S/B front Lightning Staff Back. Cause someone thaught that would be a good idea. Watch them barswap. Anvil cracker will do you in for sure. Hehe

Donny_Vito · October 2018

In Trials, why is Powerful Assault a good set to run? From what I read (granted, some of the threads were up to 10 months old) stated that if the PA proc'd on 3 of your groupmates, and then you cast another ability it would apply directly to those 3 players again. Therefore, you'd see those 3 players having an uptime of 90% and the rest of the group would be below 20%. Has this been changed? Or is this set just really good in dungeons and not on trials?

McCloskey10_5_13 · October 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

MT > Ebon/Alkosh, OT > Dragon/Alkosh. OT should swap Dragon with PA whenever possible. That's what we are doing in my group. There may or may not be some other setups that is better but this definitely works great.

Just make sure you know how to apply Crusher with 100% uptime without Torug's. If you don't know it yet, check this video or you can read this.

Just now I see main tank running Torugs over Ebon and off tank running Ebon/Dragon with the option to swap for Alkosh or PA.

Agreed. I've seen many folks (including Liofa I believe) suggesting that MT> Torugs + Alkosh, OT > Ebon + Alkosh (sometimes dragon) may be what we see when Murkmire drops. Either way, Alkosh is a unique debuff, and that means it's not going away any time soon. And the tank is the one standing next to the boss and the one getting all the synergies, so it won't get handed off to some random DD.

idk · October 2018

JaselUmena wrote: »

So I've been around for a while now and many of the tanking advice I read includes using the Ebon Armory set. I really can't see how is this set remotely useful when compared to other heavy sets, or even sanctuary jewelry + weapons.

Is 1'1k HP that important in a group to give up on an entire 5 piece set? Cause this one really is boring.

That 1.1k HP is a significant boost to survival of the group and the stats of the entire set are beneficial to the tank. It adds another 1k HP as insurance to the survival of the DPS and heals, and OT. Sure, the DPS and heals can add more health, but that also lowers DPS.

There is not another set the tank can wear that can do more to increase the survival of the group. If you want to do serious tanking in this game you will be able to equip Ebon. I have passed over a tank for a leaderboard run because they would not wear Ebon.

kylewwefan · October 2018

Powerful assault would only be good in 4 man really. DSA is considered a trial. I don’t think it’s ever been a 12 man kind of thing. Probably be good in the new 4 man arena coming out too.

Uhm. You probably need to be really good tanking in a bunch of medium armor. Like really good. You gonna die.

Donny_Vito · October 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

Powerful assault would only be good in 4 man really. DSA is considered a trial. I don’t think it’s ever been a 12 man kind of thing. Probably be good in the new 4 man arena coming out too.

Uhm. You probably need to be really good tanking in a bunch of medium armor. Like really good. You gonna die.

I'm assuming, like they do with Alkosh, that Powerful Assault is used on the jewelry/S&B pieces, not that actual armor pieces.

kylewwefan · October 2018

Yeah. Them crazy op top tanks were using SPC and PA for VDSA. Maybe Galenwe better now. I’d feel better in 5 heavy. I tried tanking in medium and light armor. It didn’t work out so good for me. Maybe with a dedicated team it could work better. Even still though, that would be for 4 man stuff. Those sets lose their shine in 12 man trials.

Royaji · October 2018

Donny_Vito wrote: »

In Trials, why is Powerful Assault a good set to run? From what I read (granted, some of the threads were up to 10 months old) stated that if the PA proc'd on 3 of your groupmates, and then you cast another ability it would apply directly to those 3 players again. Therefore, you'd see those 3 players having an uptime of 90% and the rest of the group would be below 20%. Has this been changed? Or is this set just really good in dungeons and not on trials?

Because when you are going for scores you need that every little drop of DPS you can get. PA might not buff the whole raid but it is one of the scarce options for a tank to buff DPS even more. And as a follow up:

Donny_Vito wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Powerful assault would only be good in 4 man really. DSA is considered a trial. I don’t think it’s ever been a 12 man kind of thing. Probably be good in the new 4 man arena coming out too.

Uhm. You probably need to be really good tanking in a bunch of medium armor. Like really good. You gonna die.

I'm assuming, like they do with Alkosh, that Powerful Assault is used on the jewelry/S&B pieces, not that actual armor pieces.

When you are going PA it means you go Alkosh + PA. Medium armor build. This is something only experience players should do. Do not try this unless you have done the trial numerous times and know all the mechanics by heart.

Sparr0w · October 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

In Trials, why is Powerful Assault a good set to run? From what I read (granted, some of the threads were up to 10 months old) stated that if the PA proc'd on 3 of your groupmates, and then you cast another ability it would apply directly to those 3 players again. Therefore, you'd see those 3 players having an uptime of 90% and the rest of the group would be below 20%. Has this been changed? Or is this set just really good in dungeons and not on trials?

Because when you are going for scores you need that every little drop of DPS you can get. PA might not buff the whole raid but it is one of the scarce options for a tank to buff DPS even more. And as a follow up:

Donny_Vito wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Powerful assault would only be good in 4 man really. DSA is considered a trial. I don’t think it’s ever been a 12 man kind of thing. Probably be good in the new 4 man arena coming out too.

Uhm. You probably need to be really good tanking in a bunch of medium armor. Like really good. You gonna die.

I'm assuming, like they do with Alkosh, that Powerful Assault is used on the jewelry/S&B pieces, not that actual armor pieces.

When you are going PA it means you go Alkosh + PA. Medium armor build. This is something only experience players should do. Do not try this unless you have done the trial numerous times and know all the mechanics by heart.

Pretty sure Nifty tanked vMoL in PA/Alkosh

valeriiya · October 2018

My tank is an Orc DK. When I'm tanking with a group of randoms I use Ebon and Warrior Poet. If I'm in a group of people I know I can switch to some better support sets but it depends on who I am running with and what we are doing.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2018

This game’s PvE tanking is very boring. When tanking you basically run a DK maybe a Warden to feed your team Health and damage buffs. Alkosh and Ebon are completely useless for the Tank but it’s better for the DPS. Which in ESO is all that matters.
Tanking in the game is really sad and boring which is why there are so few tanks left. Building yourself to stay alive is “selfish” while at the same time having DPS build with little if any survivability is “smart” and “normal”. Boss can hit you for 23k sure it’s fine to do this with just 17k health sure whatever.
You can use two sets with limited or weak Tank bonuses and so long as you’re a DK it’s fine. The only players that can really enjoy their role is DD. Healer and Tank most recommended sets buff DPS.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2018

idk wrote: »

JaselUmena wrote: »

So I've been around for a while now and many of the tanking advice I read includes using the Ebon Armory set. I really can't see how is this set remotely useful when compared to other heavy sets, or even sanctuary jewelry + weapons.

Is 1'1k HP that important in a group to give up on an entire 5 piece set? Cause this one really is boring.

That 1.1k HP is a significant boost to survival of the group and the stats of the entire set are beneficial to the tank. It adds another 1k HP as insurance to the survival of the DPS and heals, and OT. Sure, the DPS and heals can add more health, but that also lowers DPS.

There is not another set the tank can wear that can do more to increase the survival of the group. If you want to do serious tanking in this game you will be able to equip Ebon. I have passed over a tank for a leaderboard run because they would not wear Ebon.

This post is why Tanking in PvE is dying. DPS has been babied and spoon feed everything for so long that you must to a lesser set so your team can keep literally one big enchantment or jewelry trait for pure DPS 1K is super easy to add to your build but that’s not how ESO roll.

People wonder why few people still tank it’s a wonder.

VaranisArano · October 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

This game’s PvE tanking is very boring. When tanking you basically run a DK maybe a Warden to feed your team Health and damage buffs. Alkosh and Ebon are completely useless for the Tank but it’s better for the DPS. Which in ESO is all that matters.
Tanking in the game is really sad and boring which is why there are so few tanks left. Building yourself to stay alive is “selfish” while at the same time having DPS build with little if any survivability is “smart” and “normal”. Boss can hit you for 23k sure it’s fine to do this with just 17k health sure whatever.
You can use two sets with limited or weak Tank bonuses and so long as you’re a DK it’s fine. The only players that can really enjoy their role is DD. Healer and Tank most recommended sets buff DPS.

In Trials, it's more important that the team as a whole do well. So yes, that means that tanks and healers wear gear that allows them to tank, heal, and support the group's DDs with powerful buffs. Its a team effort between 12 people. Like with an actual sports team, everyone has their job to do, and some people are giving the assists that let the star player score the goal.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

This game’s PvE tanking is very boring. When tanking you basically run a DK maybe a Warden to feed your team Health and damage buffs. Alkosh and Ebon are completely useless for the Tank but it’s better for the DPS. Which in ESO is all that matters.
Tanking in the game is really sad and boring which is why there are so few tanks left. Building yourself to stay alive is “selfish” while at the same time having DPS build with little if any survivability is “smart” and “normal”. Boss can hit you for 23k sure it’s fine to do this with just 17k health sure whatever.
You can use two sets with limited or weak Tank bonuses and so long as you’re a DK it’s fine. The only players that can really enjoy their role is DD. Healer and Tank most recommended sets buff DPS.

In Trials, it's more important that the team as a whole do well. So yes, that means that tanks and healers wear gear that allows them to tank, heal, and support the group's DDs with powerful buffs. Its a team effort between 12 people. Like with an actual sports team, everyone has their job to do, and some people are giving the assists that let the star player score the goal.

That’s the problem DPS is the star of the show for no reason. Playing one class in one way with the same two sets is boring. Tanks should be forced to tank to build for the long fight not just being about to waste two five piece bonuses and somehow still be fine.

Imagine if DPS had to run two tank sets to make the heals job easier cause healing is the only role that matters, or of everyone had to wear something to buff healing and run a heal for the tank cause the tank was the most important role.

It’s not right or fun. Don’t take my word for it if you were here the last four years you know bad the drop in Tanks have been. When you basically have to run a DPS set like Alkosh which has no tank buffs at all as a tank you have a problem with the role. Everyone should be playing their roles while working toward a goal. Right now it’s everyone DPS or help buff DPS.

Why even have the roles at this point.

McCloskey10_5_13 · October 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

This game’s PvE tanking is very boring. When tanking you basically run a DK maybe a Warden to feed your team Health and damage buffs. Alkosh and Ebon are completely useless for the Tank but it’s better for the DPS. Which in ESO is all that matters.
Tanking in the game is really sad and boring which is why there are so few tanks left. Building yourself to stay alive is “selfish” while at the same time having DPS build with little if any survivability is “smart” and “normal”. Boss can hit you for 23k sure it’s fine to do this with just 17k health sure whatever.
You can use two sets with limited or weak Tank bonuses and so long as you’re a DK it’s fine. The only players that can really enjoy their role is DD. Healer and Tank most recommended sets buff DPS.

In Trials, it's more important that the team as a whole do well. So yes, that means that tanks and healers wear gear that allows them to tank, heal, and support the group's DDs with powerful buffs. Its a team effort between 12 people. Like with an actual sports team, everyone has their job to do, and some people are giving the assists that let the star player score the goal.

That’s the problem DPS is the star of the show for no reason. Playing one class in one way with the same two sets is boring. Tanks should be forced to tank to build for the long fight not just being about to waste two five piece bonuses and somehow still be fine.

Imagine if DPS had to run two tank sets to make the heals job easier cause healing is the only role that matters, or of everyone had to wear something to buff healing and run a heal for the tank cause the tank was the most important role.

It’s not right or fun. Don’t take my word for it if you were here the last four years you know bad the drop in Tanks have been. When you basically have to run a DPS set like Alkosh which has no tank buffs at all as a tank you have a problem with the role. Everyone should be playing their roles while working toward a goal. Right now it’s everyone DPS or help buff DPS.

Why even have the roles at this point.

DPS is the star of the show for a very good reason. The point of every engagement is to kill things and they are the ones that kill things. Our role as tanks is to facilitate that, while surviving. DPS is an infinite scale, survival is a pass/fail.

If you give the DDs more health with Ebon, they can raise their dps. This has many benefits, the largest of which is a shorter fight. A shorter fight means less likely that someone runs out of resources, or gets caught by a mechanic, or screws up and dies. In many fights it can mean fewer waves of adds to deal with, as well as less time of each wave being alive. If your in a score run it also helps that.

If they spec more into health so you can run a more selfish set, what are you going to do with the extra? Are you going to extra survive? Double super secret survive? Are you going to pull points out of health and put them in Magicka so you can get off that extra talons to lock down ads that would already be dead if your teams dps was a little higher? Or maybe throw the extra into stamina and try a little dps'n yourself?

If what your saying is that the content should be such that it would require even the best tanks in the game to go all selfish, then that sounds cool and it would be cool to have content where the tank just had to be the rock standing strong against the storm. But then you have also designed content so difficult that a massive majority of tanks will never even come close to completing it. Talk about losing tanks. Anything easier and the best tanks (and therefore the META) go back to Alkosh.

You sound like a bitter bassist in a band complaining about how there would be no band with out you, and your right. But we're the rhythm section, man. There would be no band without us, but we are not the main event. You might even say we're in a support role. And no one likes to hear the bassist and drummer complain about the guitarist and singer getting all the attention. It comes across as self-important, unrealistic and petulant.

But luckily there is a half-solution, which is find people who agree, start a guild together, and run content the way you guys would like to, maybe even finding better tactics and influencing the META along the way. Or don't.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2018

McCloskey10_5_13 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

This game’s PvE tanking is very boring. When tanking you basically run a DK maybe a Warden to feed your team Health and damage buffs. Alkosh and Ebon are completely useless for the Tank but it’s better for the DPS. Which in ESO is all that matters.
Tanking in the game is really sad and boring which is why there are so few tanks left. Building yourself to stay alive is “selfish” while at the same time having DPS build with little if any survivability is “smart” and “normal”. Boss can hit you for 23k sure it’s fine to do this with just 17k health sure whatever.
You can use two sets with limited or weak Tank bonuses and so long as you’re a DK it’s fine. The only players that can really enjoy their role is DD. Healer and Tank most recommended sets buff DPS.

In Trials, it's more important that the team as a whole do well. So yes, that means that tanks and healers wear gear that allows them to tank, heal, and support the group's DDs with powerful buffs. Its a team effort between 12 people. Like with an actual sports team, everyone has their job to do, and some people are giving the assists that let the star player score the goal.

That’s the problem DPS is the star of the show for no reason. Playing one class in one way with the same two sets is boring. Tanks should be forced to tank to build for the long fight not just being about to waste two five piece bonuses and somehow still be fine.

Imagine if DPS had to run two tank sets to make the heals job easier cause healing is the only role that matters, or of everyone had to wear something to buff healing and run a heal for the tank cause the tank was the most important role.

It’s not right or fun. Don’t take my word for it if you were here the last four years you know bad the drop in Tanks have been. When you basically have to run a DPS set like Alkosh which has no tank buffs at all as a tank you have a problem with the role. Everyone should be playing their roles while working toward a goal. Right now it’s everyone DPS or help buff DPS.

Why even have the roles at this point.

DPS is the star of the show for a very good reason. The point of every engagement is to kill things and they are the ones that kill things. Our role as tanks is to facilitate that, while surviving. DPS is an infinite scale, survival is a pass/fail.

If you give the DDs more health with Ebon, they can raise their dps. This has many benefits, the largest of which is a shorter fight. A shorter fight means less likely that someone runs out of resources, or gets caught by a mechanic, or screws up and dies. In many fights it can mean fewer waves of adds to deal with, as well as less time of each wave being alive. If your in a score run it also helps that.

If they spec more into health so you can run a more selfish set, what are you going to do with the extra? Are you going to extra survive? Double super secret survive? Are you going to pull points out of health and put them in Magicka so you can get off that extra talons to lock down ads that would already be dead if your teams dps was a little higher? Or maybe throw the extra into stamina and try a little dps'n yourself?

If what your saying is that the content should be such that it would require even the best tanks in the game to go all selfish, then that sounds cool and it would be cool to have content where the tank just had to be the rock standing strong against the storm. But then you have also designed content so difficult that a massive majority of tanks will never even come close to completing it. Talk about losing tanks. Anything easier and the best tanks (and therefore the META) go back to Alkosh.

You sound like a bitter bassist in a band complaining about how there would be no band with out you, and your right. But we're the rhythm section, man. There would be no band without us, but we are not the main event. You might even say we're in a support role. And no one likes to hear the bassist and drummer complain about the guitarist and singer getting all the attention. It comes across as self-important, unrealistic and petulant.

But luckily there is a half-solution, which is find people who agree, start a guild together, and run content the way you guys would like to, maybe even finding better tactics and influencing the META along the way. Or don't.

The problem is the META ZoS is nerfing class powers to make them more Tank friendly yet trail groups with no DK have a very bad time why DK tank can wear Alkosh and Ebon while other classes would have to go "selfish" to match DK tanking class passives. You have classes taking nerfs to DPS and Healer roles to buff Tanks that will still not be able to tank endgame trials. Meaning you still have a run that DK with Alkosh and Ebon cause way not. Other classes need that extra health to survives with DK it's over kill with say Sorc or NB it's needed.

A change of pace from the same old build can't happen so long as

1) A DK tank is pretty much needed for chains, talons, tanky passives and self sustaining tank. Content for tanks is made with the idea of a DK tank so other classes will needs set or weapon skill lines to match with DKs can do.

2) A non DK tank that needs to set to match a DK when you can have that DK with Alkosh and Ebon.

3) A non DK need a non META back bar without Talons or Encase Bombard is need to hold a mod in place.

If endgame content was changed so that tanks would have to spec fully into tanking you can remove reasons 1 and 2 from keeping non DK tanks from trial groups. Templars loss Major Mending cause no other class could out heal a 100% uptime of 25% more healing, someones damage is nerfed every update tanking is the sole role that is left to one class (sometimes Wardens). Tanking needs to change.