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ZOS What is the new purpose for Light Armor now?
FearlessOne_2014
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Light armor will offer minimal protection from damage.
Light armor has no mobility.
Light armor has damage and that's it.
Medium Armor still has decent defense with great burst damage.
Heavy Armor will still hold great health sustain with sets that offers top noch damage.
So again my question to you is where to Light Armor stand in your immediate plans.
Edited by FearlessOne_2014 on October 6, 2018 12:46PM Light armor has no mobility.
Light armor has damage and that's it.
Medium Armor still has decent defense with great burst damage.
Heavy Armor will still hold great health sustain with sets that offers top noch damage.
So again my question to you is where to Light Armor stand in your immediate plans.
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ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Light armour has better damage by a lot (pen now works on shields too) gets better sustain next patch, and gets snare reduction too. Its just that shields got some unnecessary nerfs.
Light passively is miles better than heavy, its better on live too. Don't believe me, play a heavy mag class, (Aka, vanilla heavy without any fancy sets or speed) see how little dmg you have and how much worse your sustain is.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.16 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Light armour has better damage by a lot (pen now works on shields too) gets better sustain next patch, and gets snare reduction too. Its just that shields got some unnecessary nerfs.
Light passively is miles better than heavy, its better on live too. Don't believe me, play a heavy mag class, (Aka, vanilla heavy without any fancy sets or speed) see how little dmg you have and how much worse your sustain is.
For the most part I play heavy armor magblade and I actually prefer it over light armor. I actually feel like it has better sustain and survivability over light with light only having better damage. I can see the argument you are making though because if I was building a min/max Magicka character to fight one player I would use light 100% of the time.
Here's where I disagree. the sustain in heavy is better simply because you don't need to cast a shield every 3 seconds which is very taxing on your resources, one shield also isn't that strong if you are taking decent pressure so heavy armor helps out there as well. What's the point of have having all that damage in light if your poor defense never gives you the chance to go offensive?
I believe that which passives are better depends on what kind of PvP you enjoy. As a solo player I value the extra health, resistances, healing, and Stam sustain of heavy much more than I value the penetration, cost reduction, and crit of light.
The reason the damage of light is better has more to do with sets than it has to do with passives. There aren't a lot of good heavy armor damage sets for Magicka. So you are basically stuck wearing heavy julianos. If there were better heavy sets for Magicka users you would see the damage go way up.10 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm in light armor now, I'll be in light armor after the patch. The damage difference is significant.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub6 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Light armour has better damage by a lot (pen now works on shields too) gets better sustain next patch, and gets snare reduction too. Its just that shields got some unnecessary nerfs.
Light passively is miles better than heavy, its better on live too. Don't believe me, play a heavy mag class, (Aka, vanilla heavy without any fancy sets or speed) see how little dmg you have and how much worse your sustain is.
I hear you trust me I do. However how will one not get oneshot while dealing damage in that light armor.
Cause that's all light armor has after shield nerf is damage.
No sustain and no mobility just damage. Heavy Armors will have sustain and damage. Medium armors will have mobility and damage..
Moving forward how does Light Armor compete in your head?1 -
umagon✭✭✭✭✭Based on zos’s statements about balancing survivability vs dps and what they have done this patch. I think they are moving more toward heavy armor sets being the go-to for survivability, while light armor for magckia dps and medium armor for stamina dps. I know their still sets in each armor category that do not conform to this; but I think the changes so far have just been the first phase.
I believe the concept is to make players have choose different sets from each category. So, for example if players what to max magckia dps they could go 552 with two body, weapon, accessories sets from the light armor category. If they want some survivability they could go 552 with 5 light set on the body, a 5 weapon(s)/accessories set from the heavy armor category; then what ever helm shoulder set they want. The monster sets for the most part are broken up in those three categories, magckia dps, stam dps, and survivability. With a few that are hybrid.
What you had before is that you could stack 552 with all light armor and dps monster sets for example and have the same amount of damage mitigation as a full tank, actually more. Because shields could not be crit, so that meant the impenetrable on the shields was infinite; the same for the resistances because just about everything other oblivion damage would hit the shields first. The same could be said about dodge.
People can complain about the changes, but the way things worked before was just ridiculous.
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BigBadVolk✭✭✭✭✭PVE
Edit: Also forgot gank and bombingEdited by BigBadVolk on October 6, 2018 6:39PM"The ass is similar to the opinion: Everyone has it, but no one cares about the others!"
I'm 120 years old0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Light armor will offer minimal protection from damage.
Light armor has no mobility.
Light armor has damage and that's it.
Medium Armor still has decent defense with great burst damage.
Heavy Armor will still hold great health sustain with sets that offers top noch damage.
So again my question to you is where to Light Armor stand in your immediate plans.
PveBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Light armour has better damage by a lot (pen now works on shields too) gets better sustain next patch, and gets snare reduction too. Its just that shields got some unnecessary nerfs.
Light passively is miles better than heavy, its better on live too. Don't believe me, play a heavy mag class, (Aka, vanilla heavy without any fancy sets or speed) see how little dmg you have and how much worse your sustain is.
I hear you trust me I do. However how will one not get oneshot while dealing damage in that light armor.
Cause that's all light armor has after shield nerf is damage.
No sustain and no mobility just damage. Heavy Armors will have sustain and damage. Medium armors will have mobility and damage..
Moving forward how does Light Armor compete in your head?
Light has the better mobility after the patch, and higher direct sustain. Someone said above that heavy lowers pressure, and thus lowers the need to cast defenses, and whilst that is true heavy has lower dmg, so you need to cast offense more, thus using more resources. It works itself out.
Builds that depend on shields in light nowadays will probably switch to heavy, as it is a direct survival upgrade now (instead of shields being better vs some and light being better than others) Magsorc and NB don't really have much out of shield mitigation, they'll swap to heavy and make up the damage elsewhere (For magblade its already doable, they have really high potential dmg. For sorc, ouch is all I can say)
However, builds like MDK/MWarden/MTemplar can get plenty survivable in light. For magicka players who don't use shields, it is easier to make a light build tanky than a heavy one have damage, these buffs solidify its place.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.4 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Light armour has better damage by a lot (pen now works on shields too) gets better sustain next patch, and gets snare reduction too. Its just that shields got some unnecessary nerfs.
Light passively is miles better than heavy, its better on live too. Don't believe me, play a heavy mag class, (Aka, vanilla heavy without any fancy sets or speed) see how little dmg you have and how much worse your sustain is.
I hear you trust me I do. However how will one not get oneshot while dealing damage in that light armor.
Cause that's all light armor has after shield nerf is damage.
No sustain and no mobility just damage. Heavy Armors will have sustain and damage. Medium armors will have mobility and damage..
Moving forward how does Light Armor compete in your head?
Light has the better mobility after the patch, and higher direct sustain. Someone said above that heavy lowers pressure, and thus lowers the need to cast defenses, and whilst that is true heavy has lower dmg, so you need to cast offense more, thus using more resources. It works itself out.
Builds that depend on shields in light nowadays will probably switch to heavy, as it is a direct survival upgrade now (instead of shields being better vs some and light being better than others) Magsorc and NB don't really have much out of shield mitigation, they'll swap to heavy and make up the damage elsewhere (For magblade its already doable, they have really high potential dmg. For sorc, ouch is all I can say)
However, builds like MDK/MWarden/MTemplar can get plenty survivable in light. For magicka players who don't use shields, it is easier to make a light build tanky than a heavy one have damage, these buffs solidify its place.
When you say direct sustain you are forgetting Stam sustain which is just as important as mag sustain. I think it's easier to build a heavy build that has good damage than it is to build a light build with good survivability. With heavy you can run all damage glyphs on your jewelry where as light you most likely need 2 regen glyphs or a set dedicated to sustain where in heavy you can basically build all damage which makes the damage gap between the two sort of even out.
There are multiple outside factors that buff the damage of heavy armor like proc sets, poisons and weapon glyphs which add to your burst meaning you will still be able to burst players down while wearing heavy. The only way I see light being superior is in a setting where you can min/max such as PvE, running in a ball Zerg in PvP or dueling. If you play solo heavy for the most part will always be best in slot though because you have to build a more balanced build and building max damage becomes less important.1 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Light armor will offer minimal protection from damage.
Light armor has no mobility.
Light armor has damage and that's it.
Medium Armor still has decent defense with great burst damage.
Heavy Armor will still hold great health sustain with sets that offers top noch damage.
So again my question to you is where to Light Armor stand in your immediate plans.
If you play a class the doesn’t use shields then it got buffed.0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can comfortably play open world in a heavy stam build with only 950 stam recovery (and 3x weapon damage jewelry glyphs) because it's so good at mitigating damage and increasing heals. The same build in medium would need twice as much recovery.
When you don't have to spend as much time avoiding damage and healing, fights are much easier to control.
Shield stacking arguably put Light on par with Heavy in effectiveness, but with a MUCH smaller margin for error.
Heavy is objectively OP. There's a reason why most experienced decent players run it now. This is true for both Stam and Magicka builds.1 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In my opinion, light armor should have the shields and heals and some unique design to damage.
While stamina should have another unique design completely different.
But this is not the case anymore, as everyone see the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, and want what others have. All I read is "there should be a stamina morph of this, and a magicka morph of that". Look at sets even, we get stamina lich and magicka bone pirate. There is nothing unique anymore. You don't feel special, there is only one build that works and game is less and less fun. What do we get? We get the same mount as we have had for years, only with slightly color change.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends3 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭People say LA will be bad because of the shields change make using heavy armor having tankier shield.
They forgot to though that harness is bounded to LA.
A sorc in heavy will have less damage, less sustain and only 1 shield.3 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭being free ap for gankers at least if you build not for extrem tankyness but heavy armor would be better for that
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Based on zos’s statements about balancing survivability vs dps and what they have done this patch. I think they are moving more toward heavy armor sets being the go-to for survivability, while light armor for magckia dps and medium armor for stamina dps
I fail to understand how a DPS is meant to DPS while being dead. Only sorcs even have a craptastic "blink" (in other games it's easily 20-30m). All the others are now mince meat.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Zelos✭✭✭✭✭Light armor did get a 30% snare reduction buff...Aeonhack - AD Stamina Nightblade - 5 Star General
CP1200
Creator and user of "Questionable" addons and game mechanics.0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Light armor did get a 30% snare reduction buff...
Yes, in a game where melee range is 15m long and gameplay so lagged that you don't even know if you are actually at range or not.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Light armor has the best passive for damage, and the snare reduction allows it to maintain mobility more consistently, and light armor takes a whopping 4.5% more physical damage than medium armor, but with the advantage of range.0 -
Karm1cOne✭✭✭✭✭Light armor has the best passive for damage, and the snare reduction allows it to maintain mobility more consistently, and light armor takes a whopping 4.5% more physical damage than medium armor, but with the advantage of range.
Range is a myth in this game, with speed stacking and spammed gap closers.4 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Light armor has the best passive for damage, and the snare reduction allows it to maintain mobility more consistently, and light armor takes a whopping 4.5% more physical damage than medium armor, but with the advantage of range.
Range is a myth in this game, with speed stacking and spammed gap closers.
If you get gap closed to death you deserved to die. Players down playing the kite potential in this game are either intentionally misleading you or are terrible at the game.5 -
umagon✭✭✭✭✭Based on zos’s statements about balancing survivability vs dps and what they have done this patch. I think they are moving more toward heavy armor sets being the go-to for survivability, while light armor for magckia dps and medium armor for stamina dps
I fail to understand how a DPS is meant to DPS while being dead. Only sorcs even have a craptastic "blink" (in other games it's easily 20-30m). All the others are now mince meat.
All that has happened is a change in group dynamics. To stay alive while in high dps light/med build a person would have to rely on allies who are in supportive roles a bit more. And supportive roles will have to be aware of that fact.0 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭Light armour has better damage by a lot (pen now works on shields too) gets better sustain next patch, and gets snare reduction too. Its just that shields got some unnecessary nerfs.
Light passively is miles better than heavy, its better on live too. Don't believe me, play a heavy mag class, (Aka, vanilla heavy without any fancy sets or speed) see how little dmg you have and how much worse your sustain is.
That snare reduction is of zero value once you realise that mag snares are just 20% weaker than stam snares so you still don’t have a mobility advantage over a Heavy Armor class rocking stampede.
Light Armor is now just complete glass cannon. You might see a few magblades ganking with it but pretty much everyone else is going to be swapping to heavy.4 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Light armor has the best passive for damage, and the snare reduction allows it to maintain mobility more consistently, and light armor takes a whopping 4.5% more physical damage than medium armor, but with the advantage of range.
Range is a myth in this game, with speed stacking and spammed gap closers.
If you get gap closed to death you deserved to die. Players down playing the kite potential in this game are either intentionally misleading you or are terrible at the game.
Kite potential only exists for stamina builds as sprint allows you to hug walls/trees/rocks/etc. and also allows you to dodge roll or block attacks on demand in between. And as a nice cherry on top Forward Momentum gives stam builds complete root and slow immunity.
There no comparable magicka-based game mechanics that come even close to the efficiency and effectiveness of stamina mechanics. And to put it in your very own words: "Players overplaying the kite potential for magicka builds in this game are either intentionally misleading you or are terrible in the game".
And no, streak is not great for kiting. It is slower, more expensive, and far clunkier than sprint as it only allows you to travel in a straight line (no hugging of walls/trees/rocks/etc. + can always be countered by a gap closer), stuns the user, and does not allow you to mitigate damage on demand in between. SO go ahead and find some sorry excuse why magicka has great kiting tools.7 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can comfortably play open world in a heavy stam build with only 950 stam recovery (and 3x weapon damage jewelry glyphs) because it's so good at mitigating damage and increasing heals. The same build in medium would need twice as much recovery.
When you don't have to spend as much time avoiding damage and healing, fights are much easier to control.
Shield stacking arguably put Light on par with Heavy in effectiveness, but with a MUCH smaller margin for error.
Heavy is objectively OP. There's a reason why most experienced decent players run it now. This is true for both Stam and Magicka builds.
This. So much this. And it balanced out the best in 1vX fights. You want to do damage? You have to risk having your shields drop. Even in 1v1 fights your defense lasts for 6 seconds (5 seconds technically), your burst takes 4 seconds. That's a 1 second margin between going for kills and dying. Add stuns into this mix and 50% of your setups fail.
You made 1 mistake in light armor and you died.
You make 4 mistakes in heavy armor/high resistances/high health, and you survive.
And for some reason Zos pushes for the later...
As far as where light armor stands...
A little bit more damage, but going to be impossible to play without taking away from your damage in other places. Heavy and light armor will now play more alike than before, because since light can't depend on shields they'll rely on high resistances.Edited by Jsmalls on October 7, 2018 1:25PM2 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭Sheild stacking had to go because it was bad gameplay but Light Armor wasn’t OP so without a compensatory buff, it just became unviable in PvP.1
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mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Medium will still be behind heavy in pvp, despite what the op says.
Everytime I stand toe to toe with a stamplar on my stamnb, I usually have less health b/c they're usually in heavy. I need to rely on cc and los to beat them.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP1 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Light armor has the best passive for damage, and the snare reduction allows it to maintain mobility more consistently, and light armor takes a whopping 4.5% more physical damage than medium armor, but with the advantage of range.
Range is a myth in this game, with speed stacking and spammed gap closers.
If you get gap closed to death you deserved to die. Players down playing the kite potential in this game are either intentionally misleading you or are terrible at the game.
Kiting is very minimal in this game and is really only effective as a magblade or if the opponent doesn't have a gap closer, but the latter depends on the class you play.
In any game really, kiting is non-existent without movement impairing skills and the damage to punish enemies attempting to close the gap, and because magnb has Cripple, they are really the only class that can effectively kite, ofc I say this in the most literal sense of the word.
A magsorc for example cannot really kite in a 1v1. They can run, but they cannot kite. Any kiting is really only done via a Streak or 2 and then Mines are used to zone, but again, this is more an example of running/re-positioning in order to zone your opponent.
Zoning is a far more effective method than kiting in ESO simply because of gap closers and the constant nerf of mobility skills. If a sorc is streaking in a fight to kite, they are not doing damage. So technically this is not kiting, but re-positioning. I doubt that most forum warriors differentiate this when they discuss kiting, but it is an important difference.
The 4.5% difference between light and medium is a misleading argument. Medium has roll dodge, which was the equivalent of light armor shields. However, the biggest difference is access to viable HoTs that are amped by mediums damage passive, which greatly increases eHP, in a similar level as shields did, with the exception of Defile. Outside of class skills, Magicka has Rapid Regeneration, which is a very weak HoT. This is balanced by the fact that shields increase the value of each individual tick, since they are not diminished by incoming damage. However, this forces any class without class HoTs into resto, which is poor design. Technically, it changes nothing since sorc is the only class this affects, but it's yet another hit to magsorc, when magsorc was not even over-performing.
Not arguing that medium has MOAR survivability or anything, just that your statement was misleading. And magicka having access to dodge is like saying stam has access to bone shield, so therefore shield play is viable on medium.
The shield nerf was necessary. The 40% cap is arguably a tad low. 50%-60% would be better, but the crit change is also arguably enough of a nerf in PvP. I'd say the 40% cap was targeted to PvE, since 40% capped shields are not a significant difference compared to PvP live on it's own. The cap is really only an issue due to the crit changes, so shields were nerfed twice directly, and 3 times overall if you include the indirect nerf to overall shield play from the resistance changes.
On a minor note, proc'ing effects on shields from glyphs is also a slight nerf. But this is more of a QoL change than a nerf.
Again, not saying these changes aren't logical/necessary, but I highly doubt all 3 were needed.3
