warhorn

Rungar · October 2018

warhorn will be losing its minor toughness buff next patch i think it would be nice if the toughness loss was balanced with something useful if possible.

my ideas are as follows, feel free to add your own.

- adds major heroism for 10 seconds or
- adds mag and stam regen for the duration or
- just adds 10% health and toughness can stack on it.

Inig0 · October 2018

this is actually an excellent idea. Things like this which reward group play should be where players gain their sustain from.

Something like 4% reduction to their abilities for the duration would be warmly welcomed.

People want to use their abilities and take advantage of every single GCD in the most efficient way possible to push out the most damage possible to push themselves as players and receive satisfaction from doing so. It is extremely important to PVE and players sticking around that they can use abilities without having to spec into sustain the game is extremely fun that way!

Thorstienn · October 2018

Or, you know, tanks and healers could have an option to run a different ulti?

Rungar · October 2018

i dont think people run it for the health but i would rather slot dragon leap

so i see your point.

Dymence · October 2018

Thorstienn wrote: »

Or, you know, tanks and healers could have an option to run a different ulti?

Damage is king in PVE. The health loss isn't going to make people drop horn. War horn is good because of the major force and stat boost.

Taleof2Cities · October 2018

You balance it by adding a Warden to the raid ... they have minor toughness.

Inig0 · October 2018

Thorstienn wrote: »

Or, you know, tanks and healers could have an option to run a different ulti?

Theres nothing stopping healers from spamming remembrance in raids. There is just opportunity cost that someone would be giving up using a burst heal versus a sustained support ult like warhorn. Ults like warhorn add a great dimension to the game giving the opportunity for the support roles to communicate their ults and use their ultimates strategically to achieve great uptimes on certain buffs which allows the group to kill the mobs more efficiently which is the ultimate goal in any raid group.

The sentiment that "heALeRs dOnT wANt tO UsE wArhORn" is that of the causal and that is 100% fine. If you wish to play the game like that then by all means the only thing that matters is that your group is okay with it. Once your casual inclinations start hurting a raids potential then thats when youll see a problem with people in the group asking you to use another ult. Like someone above said damage is king and the most powerful piece of a supports role is giving your raid damage buffs/ debuffs. once you start playing like that youll enjoy being a support in eso more.

Silver_Strider · October 2018

Inig0 wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

Or, you know, tanks and healers could have an option to run a different ulti?

Theres nothing stopping healers from spamming remembrance in raids. There is just opportunity cost that someone would be giving up using a burst heal versus a sustained support ult like warhorn. Ults like warhorn add a great dimension to the game giving the opportunity for the support roles to communicate their ults and use their ultimates strategically to achieve great uptimes on certain buffs which allows the group to kill the mobs more efficiently which is the ultimate goal in any raid group.

The sentiment that "heALeRs dOnT wANt tO UsE wArhORn" is that of the causal and that is 100% fine. If you wish to play the game like that then by all means the only thing that matters is that your group is okay with it. Once your casual inclinations start hurting a raids potential then thats when youll see a problem with people in the group asking you to use another ult. Like someone above said damage is king and the most powerful piece of a supports role is giving your raid damage buffs/ debuffs. once you start playing like that youll enjoy being a support in eso more.

The same could be said about this comment being elitist dribble. Warhorn is stifling since absolutely nothing else can top it in terms of support ultimates, much like most Stamina builds are locked into Dawnbreaker due to a lack of better alternatives available. Tell me, if Warhorn was nerfed into the ground and made completely worthless (removal of Major Force and changing of Max Stat into some other redundant buff like Major Endurance/Intellect), what would happen to the game? Realistically, the "ceiling" for end game content would be drastically lowered now that damage numbers couldn't reach as high. Nova/Veil/etc might actually see the light of day again instead of just popping their heads out periodically before fading away into obscurity again and god forbid Tanks get to use some of the other Ultimates instead of constantly being expected to chuck out Horn for everyone.

We don't use it because its enjoyable, we use it because all alternative options are either too limited or are utter crap in comparison.

Oakmontowls_ESO · October 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

Or, you know, tanks and healers could have an option to run a different ulti?

Theres nothing stopping healers from spamming remembrance in raids. There is just opportunity cost that someone would be giving up using a burst heal versus a sustained support ult like warhorn. Ults like warhorn add a great dimension to the game giving the opportunity for the support roles to communicate their ults and use their ultimates strategically to achieve great uptimes on certain buffs which allows the group to kill the mobs more efficiently which is the ultimate goal in any raid group.

The sentiment that "heALeRs dOnT wANt tO UsE wArhORn" is that of the causal and that is 100% fine. If you wish to play the game like that then by all means the only thing that matters is that your group is okay with it. Once your casual inclinations start hurting a raids potential then thats when youll see a problem with people in the group asking you to use another ult. Like someone above said damage is king and the most powerful piece of a supports role is giving your raid damage buffs/ debuffs. once you start playing like that youll enjoy being a support in eso more.

The same could be said about this comment being elitist dribble. Warhorn is stifling since absolutely nothing else can top it in terms of support ultimates, much like most Stamina builds are locked into Dawnbreaker due to a lack of better alternatives available. Tell me, if Warhorn was nerfed into the ground and made completely worthless (removal of Major Force and changing of Max Stat into some other redundant buff like Major Endurance/Intellect), what would happen to the game? Realistically, the "ceiling" for end game content would be drastically lowered now that damage numbers couldn't reach as high. Nova/Veil/etc might actually see the light of day again instead of just popping their heads out periodically before fading away into obscurity again and god forbid Tanks get to use some of the other Ultimates instead of constantly being expected to chuck out Horn for everyone.

We don't use it because its enjoyable, we use it because all alternative options are either too limited or are utter crap in comparison.

Even if war horn was removed, I don't see mitigation ults coming back. We just don't need the extra mitigation anymore outside of a few fights. I could see healers running barrier and destro ult and tanks just running selfish ults.

Rungar · October 2018

well zos has a nerfing policy and i get that changes are required, but i think the way they go about it often upsets people and causes division. Whenever they nerf they should always replace even if the replacement is not significant or a token.

idk · October 2018

Thorstienn wrote: »

Or, you know, tanks and healers could have an option to run a different ulti?

This is likely not going to be the case as the damage bonus is superior to anything another ult can offer in most situations. Basically, it is unlikely they will have an option.

I do not agree that WH needs something added. It is that Toughness is not locked beyond one specific class.

I think it is a poor step down a slippery slope what Zos is doing here forcing groups that want the buff to use a specific class locked behind a pay wall. I expect if they are this obvious about it we can expect more to come over the years.

ccmedaddy · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

Or, you know, tanks and healers could have an option to run a different ulti?

This is likely not going to be the case as the damage bonus is superior to anything another ult can offer in most situations. Basically, it is unlikely they will have an option.

I do not agree that WH needs something added. It is that Toughness is not locked beyond one specific class.

I think it is a poor step down a slippery slope what Zos is doing here forcing groups that want the buff to use a specific class locked behind a pay wall. I expect if they are this obvious about it we can expect more to come over the years.

So... because the Warden class is locked behind a paywall, it shouldn't have any unique group buff whatsoever or it's P2W? Even when all the other classes already have one? That's ridiculous.

DoobZ69 · October 2018

Aggressive Warhorn is too PVE and not enough PvP. Change the 15% crit damage increase to 4 seconds of Impen penetration and snare/root cleanse for the group and it is useful for both PVP and PVE without being a necessity for either.
This isn't rocket science, the developers just want to change proper skills like shields to cast times and make pets immune to damage some of the time and god-knows what else.

Silver_Strider · October 2018

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

Or, you know, tanks and healers could have an option to run a different ulti?

Theres nothing stopping healers from spamming remembrance in raids. There is just opportunity cost that someone would be giving up using a burst heal versus a sustained support ult like warhorn. Ults like warhorn add a great dimension to the game giving the opportunity for the support roles to communicate their ults and use their ultimates strategically to achieve great uptimes on certain buffs which allows the group to kill the mobs more efficiently which is the ultimate goal in any raid group.

The sentiment that "heALeRs dOnT wANt tO UsE wArhORn" is that of the causal and that is 100% fine. If you wish to play the game like that then by all means the only thing that matters is that your group is okay with it. Once your casual inclinations start hurting a raids potential then thats when youll see a problem with people in the group asking you to use another ult. Like someone above said damage is king and the most powerful piece of a supports role is giving your raid damage buffs/ debuffs. once you start playing like that youll enjoy being a support in eso more.

The same could be said about this comment being elitist dribble. Warhorn is stifling since absolutely nothing else can top it in terms of support ultimates, much like most Stamina builds are locked into Dawnbreaker due to a lack of better alternatives available. Tell me, if Warhorn was nerfed into the ground and made completely worthless (removal of Major Force and changing of Max Stat into some other redundant buff like Major Endurance/Intellect), what would happen to the game? Realistically, the "ceiling" for end game content would be drastically lowered now that damage numbers couldn't reach as high. Nova/Veil/etc might actually see the light of day again instead of just popping their heads out periodically before fading away into obscurity again and god forbid Tanks get to use some of the other Ultimates instead of constantly being expected to chuck out Horn for everyone.

We don't use it because its enjoyable, we use it because all alternative options are either too limited or are utter crap in comparison.

Even if war horn was removed, I don't see mitigation ults coming back. We just don't need the extra mitigation anymore outside of a few fights. I could see healers running barrier and destro ult and tanks just running selfish ults.

Seems pointless to run barrier since it also only applies to 6 players and its not as though Nova and Veil don't do damage on top of their mitigation purposes. It gives at least some variety than Warhorn "spam" and I'd gladly welcome that change.

PathwayM · October 2018

DoobZ69 wrote: »

Aggressive Warhorn is too PVE and not enough PvP. Change the 15% crit damage increase to 4 seconds of Impen penetration and snare/root cleanse for the group and it is useful for both PVP and PVE without being a necessity for either.
This isn't rocket science, the developers just want to change proper skills like shields to cast times and make pets immune to damage some of the time and god-knows what else.

Crit damage is effectively the same as crit penetration...

db0ssman · October 2018

I don't really think warhorn needs a buff on top of the abilities that remain. Aggressive warhorn is still the best utility ult in the game even without toughness. A possible change could be to remove minor resolve/ward from sturdy horn and change it to minor toughness. Minor resolve/ward are easily applied using combat prayer which makes it mostly a dead morph compared to aggressive warhorn. This would make groups have to choose if they want to kill a litter faster, like people looking for a high score or choose if they want better survivability, like learning groups.

DoobZ69 · October 2018

PathwayM wrote: »

DoobZ69 wrote: »

Aggressive Warhorn is too PVE and not enough PvP. Change the 15% crit damage increase to 4 seconds of Impen penetration and snare/root cleanse for the group and it is useful for both PVP and PVE without being a necessity for either.
This isn't rocket science, the developers just want to change proper skills like shields to cast times and make pets immune to damage some of the time and god-knows what else.

Crit damage is effectively the same as crit penetration...

I'm talking about ignoring the Impenetrable resistances. Bosses and NPCs don't have impenetrable resistance so it wouldn't be a DPS increase in PVE. If a player has 15% crit resistance then this change wouldn't make any difference from the current design. If its anything else then its either a buff or a nerf which means its not OP in all PvP situations but the snare/root removal keeps in line with the "aggressive" side of the ulti for PvP assaults. Do you need that in PVE? I'd say extremely limited uses but the stats increase still results in DPS increase but just not in a "necessary to keep up as often as possible" fashion.