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Speed Potions are being nerfed, and now...
GreenHere
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Which would you prefer? Assuming we get one of either...
Speed Potions are being nerfed, and now... 62 votes
Convey Major Expedition for ~15 seconds (with Medicinal Use)
35%
22 votes
Convey MINOR Expedition for 47 seconds (with Medicinal Use)
64%
40 votes
0
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GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I voted for 47 seconds of Minor Expedition, since imo using a potion cooldown to boost your speed should have constant effect until you decide to use another (or not).
If they slam the nerf mallet down on Major Expedition pots in their usual fashion, they'll be made annoyingly inconsistent; a speed buff that comes on and off with a fixed cooldown is not what I want from a potion.0 -
Zaryc✭✭✭I voted for 15 seconds of Major Expedition because giving Minor Expedition to everyone would take even more unique things of the already small stam sorc toolkit.
Furthermore I agree with speed pots beeing nerfed but I don't agree with the nerfs to skills that offer Major Expedition.
Major Expedition is a very potent buff and it was to easy to maintain it 100% of the time especially for stam builds. Having to slot a skill to get the buff and loose a slot should be rewarded with more than 4 seconds of it, make it more like 10 seconds for skills and revert it back to 5 seconds for bow passive would be good.2 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I voted for 15 seconds of Major Expedition because giving Minor Expedition to everyone would take even more unique things of the already small stam sorc toolkit.
Furthermore I agree with speed pots beeing nerfed but I don't agree with the nerfs to skills that offer Major Expedition.
Major Expedition is a very potent buff and it was to easy to maintain it 100% of the time especially for stam builds. Having to slot a skill to get the buff and loose a slot should be rewarded with more than 4 seconds of it, make it more like 10 seconds for skills and revert it back to 5 seconds for bow passive would be good.
All good points. I like the way you think here, @Zaryc . There's got to be a way to balance it that doesn't involve gutting everything, and I'm hoping more people will make posts like yours in hopes that we as a community can come up with solutions that work well enough ZOS just might consider them. I no longer trust them to handle things on their own in a good way.
Keep em comin!1 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭✭To use a speed pot you had to give up the burst heal of a regular one,but I gues you zergling can now catch the poor guy1
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Zaryc✭✭✭To use a speed pot you had to give up the burst heal of a regular one,but I gues you zergling can now catch the poor guy
You do realize that there are speed + stam + health pots which indeed give you a “burst“ heal. Also since most zergs spam rapids this doesn't make sense. When a zerg is chasing me usually some of them wait to get out of combat and mount up anyway.1 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »30 seconds of Major Expedition with the use of any potion.
You're referencing the Skooma Smuggler set, or proposing that as a game-wide change to potions in general?
If Smuggler, then while I think it's a nice benefit it certainly isn't worth trading almost any other 5 piece bonus.0 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭✭To use a speed pot you had to give up the burst heal of a regular one,but I gues you zergling can now catch the poor guy
You do realize that there are speed + stam + health pots which indeed give you a “burst“ heal. Also since most zergs spam rapids this doesn't make sense. When a zerg is chasing me usually some of them wait to get out of combat and mount up anyway.
I have yet to see a Zerg spamming rapids on PS4 eu. If it’s an organised Zerg they’ll catch me anyway cause they chase with 24 people but speed pots were useful when facing 10/15ish unorganised cause you could separate them and then procede killing. But yeah,without speed pots stamplars/stam dk will have so much mobility. Nerf to roll,nerf to mobility might as well start playing a blockplar...
also I was implying using the antistun/speed/stamina cause antistun>Speed>everything else imho
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brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »30 seconds of Major Expedition with the use of any potion.
You're referencing the Skooma Smuggler set, or proposing that as a game-wide change to potions in general?
If Smuggler, then while I think it's a nice benefit it certainly isn't worth trading almost any other 5 piece bonus.
Which is why I think the 30 seconds is fair (what you are giving up).
Some people don't think Rattlecage 5 piece makes sense because they can get that on their bar or through potions but yet people use it. To each their own.Edited by brandonv516 on October 2, 2018 1:41PM0 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »30 seconds of Major Expedition with the use of any potion.
You're referencing the Skooma Smuggler set, or proposing that as a game-wide change to potions in general?
If Smuggler, then while I think it's a nice benefit it certainly isn't worth trading almost any other 5 piece bonus.
Which is why I think the 30 seconds is fair (what you are giving up).
Some people don't think Rattlecage 5 piece makes sense because they can get that on their bar or through potions but yet people use it. To each their own.
Fair enough. I just hate to see so much being taken away from us, and so little given... feels bad, man.0 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is no reason to nerf potions at all. They need to add a Immovable/Speed/Magika pot and we are all even. This way all classes can choose to run M.E. if they want.
We know that swift is getting nerfed and that is fine.
There was no complaint about speed in the game until swift, so why are we overreacting and attacking potions?
1. We add a ability to the game
2. Players start getting upset that other players are to fast
3. Nerf swift and potions???
Potions did not upset the game, swift did.XBOX NA
XBOX Series X
#NightmareBear0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Neither. I would rather use a different alchemy trait.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no reason to nerf potions at all. They need to add a Immovable/Speed/Magika pot and we are all even. This way all classes can choose to run M.E. if they want.
We know that swift is getting nerfed and that is fine.
There was no complaint about speed in the game until swift, so why are we overreacting and attacking potions?
1. We add a ability to the game
2. Players start getting upset that other players are to fast
3. Nerf swift and potions???
Potions did not upset the game, swift did.
I agree that potions should not be nerfed, but I disagree that Swift should be nerfed. It's a sloppy solution that indicates a real lack of insight, imo. I proposed another solution over here... what do you think about this, in regard to handling Swift and overly speedy players?1 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Neither. I would rather use a different alchemy trait.
Do you have thoughts you'd be willing to share one way or another on whether Major Expedition potions should be nerfed at all?Edited by GreenHere on October 2, 2018 2:13PM0 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »30 seconds of Major Expedition with the use of any potion.
You're referencing the Skooma Smuggler set, or proposing that as a game-wide change to potions in general?
If Smuggler, then while I think it's a nice benefit it certainly isn't worth trading almost any other 5 piece bonus.
Which is why I think the 30 seconds is fair (what you are giving up).
Some people don't think Rattlecage 5 piece makes sense because they can get that on their bar or through potions but yet people use it. To each their own.
Fair enough. I just hate to see so much being taken away from us, and so little given... feels bad, man.
I think that is an issue with this games community. People constantly state they want buffs or rebalancing instead of nerfs, but that just adds to power creep. That is how the game state got to the way it is now. 30% extra movement speed is a powerful buff, that should be used intelligently instead of being a essentially a passive. That is my opinion. Granted, ZOS can go too far, but nerfs in this case seem needed. (After seeing the effectiveness or rapid spam in large group combat, that should probably be addressed as well.)0 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »30 seconds of Major Expedition with the use of any potion.
You're referencing the Skooma Smuggler set, or proposing that as a game-wide change to potions in general?
If Smuggler, then while I think it's a nice benefit it certainly isn't worth trading almost any other 5 piece bonus.
Which is why I think the 30 seconds is fair (what you are giving up).
Some people don't think Rattlecage 5 piece makes sense because they can get that on their bar or through potions but yet people use it. To each their own.
Fair enough. I just hate to see so much being taken away from us, and so little given... feels bad, man.
I think that is an issue with this games community. People constantly state they want buffs or rebalancing instead of nerfs, but that just adds to power creep. That is how the game state got to the way it is now. 30% extra movement speed is a powerful buff, that should be used intelligently instead of being a essentially a passive. That is my opinion. Granted, ZOS can go too far, but nerfs in this case seem needed. (After seeing the effectiveness or rapid spam in large group combat, that should probably be addressed as well.)
While the overall speed that players can achieve is problematic, and should be dealt with, this thread was mostly created just to see how people felt about Speed pots getting nerfed (likely next week). We're most likely going to get them seriously cut down, not a minor adjustment. I was curious if people would prefer the speed itself being sacrificed, or the uptime for the Major speed buff.
EDIT, to add :: And I agree with you somewhat on the community wanting it all leading to too much power creep. In the thread I linked, I call for an actual nerf to our max speeds; I just want to retain the potency of the buffs we have to meet the proposed new speed cap. If you were to implement the change I suggested, there'd be no need to nerf any current forms of Expedition, or Swift, at all. I'm also in favor of damage and shield nerfs, when done sensibly. The larger issue isn't that ZOS wants to make changes -- it's how they make changes that I and many others take issue with.Edited by GreenHere on October 2, 2018 2:20PM0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Leave them as is. Speed pots are not a problem. Stop the nerfs! Keep the game fun and keep diversity alive --- reverse all the individual speed nerfs that were made and, instead, simply reduce the overall speed cap in the game (and fix the lag ... it's been going on for so long and we've gotten so used to it that when the lag eventually gets fixed, it will 'feel' like a speed buff)Edited by Maryal on October 2, 2018 2:26PM0 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »30 seconds of Major Expedition with the use of any potion.
You're referencing the Skooma Smuggler set, or proposing that as a game-wide change to potions in general?
If Smuggler, then while I think it's a nice benefit it certainly isn't worth trading almost any other 5 piece bonus.
Which is why I think the 30 seconds is fair (what you are giving up).
Some people don't think Rattlecage 5 piece makes sense because they can get that on their bar or through potions but yet people use it. To each their own.
Fair enough. I just hate to see so much being taken away from us, and so little given... feels bad, man.
I think that is an issue with this games community. People constantly state they want buffs or rebalancing instead of nerfs, but that just adds to power creep. That is how the game state got to the way it is now. 30% extra movement speed is a powerful buff, that should be used intelligently instead of being a essentially a passive. That is my opinion. Granted, ZOS can go too far, but nerfs in this case seem needed. (After seeing the effectiveness or rapid spam in large group combat, that should probably be addressed as well.)
While the overall speed that players can achieve is problematic, and should be dealt with, this thread was mostly created just to see how people felt about Speed pots getting nerfed (likely next week). We're most likely going to get them seriously cut down, not a minor adjustment. I was curious if people would prefer the speed itself being sacrificed, or the uptime for the Major speed buff.
EDIT, to add :: And I agree with you somewhat on the community wanting it all leading to too much power creep. In the thread I linked, I call for an actual nerf to our max speeds; I just want to retain the potency of the buffs we have to meet the proposed new speed cap. If you were to implement the change I suggested, there'd be no need to nerf any current forms of Expedition, or Swift, at all. I'm also in favor of damage and shield nerfs, when done sensibly. The larger issue isn't that ZOS wants to make changes -- it's how they make changes that I and many others take issue with.
I see. I agree with your sense of changes. Good thread nonetheless0 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Leave them as is. Speed pots are not a problem. Stop the nerfs! Keep the game fun and keep diversity alive --- reverse the speed nerfs and simply reduce the speed cap in the game.
On a personal level, I agree. But that's not on the poll because @ZOS_GinaBruno already stated that speed pots are being looked into for adjustments next week.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Speed pots will actually be addressed next week; we just ran out of time to get it into today's patch, that's all.
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Drygon✭✭✭If we went this way with magicka mobility, i agree that speed potions need a nerf now.
I voted for the 15 seconds Major Expedition, it is more then enough to serve the purpose of reposition and reset a fight, or chase for a quick execute. They should be a temporary buff to have spike of speed to run and reset or to get offensive.
Beeing a buff you had to recast when it ended required small to no decision making.1 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If we went this way with magicka mobility, i agree that speed potions need a nerf now.
I voted for the 15 seconds Major Expedition, it is more then enough to serve the purpose of reposition and reset a fight, or chase for a quick execute. They should be a temporary buff to have spike of speed to run and reset or to get offensive.
Beeing a buff you had to recast when it ended required small to no decision making.
Seems like pretty good reasoning to me! In that light, I could consider getting behind sticking with a shorter duration of Major Expedition, even though that's not the vote I chose.
Does ~15 seconds seem about right to you for that purpose, @Drygon ? How about 8, or 10 seconds? 15 was just my guess at what the team at ZOS will bring us down to next week. Could be more or less, but I didn't want to clutter up the poll.0 -
Drygon✭✭✭If we went this way with magicka mobility, i agree that speed potions need a nerf now.
I voted for the 15 seconds Major Expedition, it is more then enough to serve the purpose of reposition and reset a fight, or chase for a quick execute. They should be a temporary buff to have spike of speed to run and reset or to get offensive.
Beeing a buff you had to recast when it ended required small to no decision making.
Seems like pretty good reasoning to me! In that light, I could consider getting behind sticking with a shorter duration of Major Expedition, even though that's not the vote I chose.
Does ~15 seconds seem about right to you for that purpose, @Drygon ? How about 8, or 10 seconds? 15 was just my guess at what the team at ZOS will bring us down to next week. Could be more or less, but I didn't want to clutter up the poll.
Potions have a 45 seconds cooldown. If you use a potion to provide Major Expedition you will have to wait 30 seconds before you do so again. The potion also has other efects usualy that restore health and stamina. In a defensive situation those efects are not wasted and with the curent nerf to Forward Momentum (I agree with it) 15 seconds also seem to me a good starting point. When you want to run if a combination of break free immunity combined with Forward Momentum makes a total of 12 seconds of, lets say CC resistance.
Same can be said about the offensive situation.
For that reason i think 15 seconds of Major expedition at the right time are just enough. Also Momentum can be recasted, it is just that it will be a strain on resourcess. And regarding builds that do not run Two handed, Dual wield has quick cloak, Bow has Hasty retreat and if you use one handed and shield you should have one of those on backbar or be tanky enough to sustain some hits and in that case you will be probably be using Immovability potions.
So far i tested the magicka changes and with the sprint cost reduction of light armor i feel quite confortable even with the 4 seconds mobility boost that my warden has now.
Overall i think the nerf will be alright and those potions with 15 second Major expedition will still do their job in the hands of the players who know when to cast them, and at the same time will provide a small window of vulnerability of 30 seconds. Window that should be spent in a safe location, meaning arround allies, as this game is similar to the older RPG games as builds have counters and ZOS builded and still builds in this idea, you gotta pick your fights.
In the end we will have to wait, see, test and see what's what.
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Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭If we went this way with magicka mobility, i agree that speed potions need a nerf now.
I voted for the 15 seconds Major Expedition, it is more then enough to serve the purpose of reposition and reset a fight, or chase for a quick execute. They should be a temporary buff to have spike of speed to run and reset or to get offensive.
Beeing a buff you had to recast when it ended required small to no decision making.
Seems like pretty good reasoning to me! In that light, I could consider getting behind sticking with a shorter duration of Major Expedition, even though that's not the vote I chose.
Does ~15 seconds seem about right to you for that purpose, @Drygon ? How about 8, or 10 seconds? 15 was just my guess at what the team at ZOS will bring us down to next week. Could be more or less, but I didn't want to clutter up the poll.
Potions have a 45 seconds cooldown. If you use a potion to provide Major Expedition you will have to wait 30 seconds before you do so again. The potion also has other efects usualy that restore health and stamina. In a defensive situation those efects are not wasted and with the curent nerf to Forward Momentum (I agree with it) 15 seconds also seem to me a good starting point. When you want to run if a combination of break free immunity combined with Forward Momentum makes a total of 12 seconds of, lets say CC resistance.
Same can be said about the offensive situation.
For that reason i think 15 seconds of Major expedition at the right time are just enough. Also Momentum can be recasted, it is just that it will be a strain on resourcess. And regarding builds that do not run Two handed, Dual wield has quick cloak, Bow has Hasty retreat and if you use one handed and shield you should have one of those on backbar or be tanky enough to sustain some hits and in that case you will be probably be using Immovability potions.
So far i tested the magicka changes and with the sprint cost reduction of light armor i feel quite confortable even with the 4 seconds mobility boost that my warden has now.
Overall i think the nerf will be alright and those potions with 15 second Major expedition will still do their job in the hands of the players who know when to cast them, and at the same time will provide a small window of vulnerability of 30 seconds. Window that should be spent in a safe location, meaning arround allies, as this game is similar to the older RPG games as builds have counters and ZOS builded and still builds in this idea, you gotta pick your fights.
In the end we will have to wait, see, test and see what's what.
Agreed getting easy access to 100 percent uptime without having to sacrifice alot was too good.
With new system if we want to get 30 percent permanent speedbost we have to sacrifice stats or a skill slot.
Edited by Ariades_swe on October 2, 2018 5:30PM0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'd be ok with Minor for full duration. Major could/should generally require maintaining uptime via resources unless sacrificing a 5pc armor set.
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Drygon✭✭✭Do not forget the changes to evasion, now there is a lot more AOE resistences so if there was no nerf to mobility, next patch stamina would have been way too strong.0
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Neither. I would rather use a different alchemy trait.
Do you have thoughts you'd be willing to share one way or another on whether Major Expedition potions should be nerfed at all?
I have thoughts, but it's not like they have any influence worth noting.
In my estimation, immovable and stealth detection and major vitality are more stronger properties than major expedition and thus nerfing major expedition to 15.7 seconds would eviscerate that trait.
I have less an issue that the potion uptime as I do it's a lot friendlier to stamina oriented builds than magicka builds. I run speed pots on my magplar and while it can be done, it's pretty much only done because as a magplar I can get spell crit via a skill I already use. And there are times I need the magicka regen. In short, I have to make sacrifices, which is fine and how things should work. Asking a mag sorc, for example, to run a speed pot is a much bigger sacrifice bc/ their magicka sustain is much worse and they'd need to slot another skill for spell crit. I'd like to see it a little more convenient for magicka build to run speed pots and a little less convenient for stam pots to use them: this way the buff is there for all of us to have, but it comes at some sacrifice you'd miss.
This became much more of a pressing issue when Swift Jewelry came about and made it to easy for players to get a 27% speed increase that stacked additively with everything in the game at a low opportunity cost. Just about everything in this game is subject to diminishing returns and I would have rather ZOS test with that route as that is something that targets people stacking speed effects rather than just outright nerfing the rest of us who are not abusing the mechanic. Swift trait probably did give a bit too much, though again it;s more of an issue with people wearing 3 than just 1.Edited by Joy_Division on October 2, 2018 6:01PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As someone that exclusively was running just Speed pots with the HoT I'm glad to see it finally be nerfed like Immovability pots were so that they're less of a requirement to compete. Permanent uptime with no cooldwon on Major Expedition is just way too strong and with as laggy as Cyrodiil can be it gives an unfair advantage to the player that's always harder to hit because the 30% faster speed compounds with latency.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Considering Zos has been shortening the length of the buffs it seems the results of the poll will have no affect.Edited by idk on October 2, 2018 6:09PM0