PLAYER SPEED: Make it multiplicative. No more stacking.

cazlonb16_ESO · October 2018

Minno wrote: »

No matter how much the cookie crumbles, the eventual feedback will be "this game moves too slow for the fast combat, please increase speed " like we had for 3-4 years till zos caved to give us Swift with all those snare changes.

Just leave it and force zos to fix the lag/buggy hitboxes that's the actual problem.

They probably can't, or they would have done so already.

Mayrael · October 2018

Nerf Forward Momentum, then just use snares and roots...

contact.opiumb16_ESO · October 2018

Skoomah wrote: »

Emma - Correct. The speed cap is currently 100%. And yes. I feel your pain. I have dozens of golded out gear that are stored away because they don't perform like they used to either because of re-balancing.

ALeoCat - Multiplicative meaning that the percentage gain is only giving a percentage of the remaining percentage of speed cap. The more percentage you add, the less useful each percentage becomes. If you have 50% speed boost, then you have half the speed cap left of 50%. So if you add another 10% speed boost, you won't get an extra 10%, you'll only get 10% of the remaining 50%, which is 5%, for a total of 55%. This way, there are diminishing returns, and gives stacking speed a hard choice between speed (form of mitigation) and something else like damage potential and/or sustain.

Class Rep Note
"We think it’s great some players want to play like a glass cannon, but those builds should have tradeoffs in reduced survivability. "

I agree with this philosophy. I like the idea of tradeoffs. No matter the form of damage mitigation (heals, shields, cloak, block, dodge, speed), they should all require hard choices between maximizing defense or offense. You either choose high defense, low offense OR low defense, high offense OR somewhere in between where you can sustain for a longer period of time with medium defense, medium offense.

For example, ZOS, for many patches have tried to re-work Block (the formula has been changed around, can't regen stam while blocking anymore, etc.). They tried to rework Speed (added a speed cap, reduced immobilization and snare duration, introduced Swift, etc.). They tried to rework Cloak (can't critical hit heals while in cloak, etc.). They tried to rework Heals (decreased defile duration, battle spirit, nerf to healing skills). They tried to rework Cloak (attempted to add cast time, allowed it to be critically hit, etc.). They tried to rework Dodge (needs to be purposeful and actively executed to work, etc.).

I think ZOS should continue to tweak the game to make people make hard decisions between different tradeoffs.

People currently are able to run around at 100% speed nearly all the time, Dawn Breaker, followed up with Spin-to-Win, wiping out 5-6 people, using this combo every 30 seconds. That playstyle is fine, but when you finally lock them down or trap them in a corner due to bad positioning, they need to be squishy at the same time. That's not the case at the moment. People pair that up with other powerful forms of mitigation (cloak, healing, etc.). Where's the tradeoff?

I think toning down Speed by making it multiplicative is fair.

I 100% agree with all of this. multiplicative means that if you want to specialise into something, you need to leave A LOT of other things. Multiplicative works well, in any MMO BECAUSE OF THIS tradeoff logic.

Stibbons · October 2018

Shieldstacking should prevent running.

Feanor · October 2018

Legendary equipment has never been a reason to not nerf items.

xselfish · October 2018

You lose a lot of Magicka or stamina to run swift. It’s a pretty big trade off already if you want to move faster. If you want to survive in medium armor that’s not a nifgtblade then you basically need it to kite groups and zergs to survive. Doesn’t need to be nerfed.

Mayrael · October 2018

Yeah, let's nerf swift so everyone will switch back to arcane/robust, who needs options anyway? It just makes game harder because you need to choose between stuff and froces people to buy Summerset...

IMHO swift is great but only when combined with snare and root immunity, otherwise it's just a waste of potential. All you need is single snare or root to completely negate all it gives.

ezio45 · October 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno

can you PLZ mention to the team that this only needs to happen in pvp, maybe like a lowered cap in cyro and bgs?

as someone who farms alot i reaaaaaaaaaally like swift and major expedition..... for the love of god pls dont take that from me.....

mojomood · October 2018

Speed already has a hard cap at 200% (100% extra). I'm fine changing the calculation to give diminished returns for Swift/Major/Minor Expedition so that it's impossible to be at the speed cap (or very close) without sprinting. Be careful to not blame swift for everything as range has changed in live and on the PTS for a number of abilities and 2H Heavy attacks.

All classes should have access to speed through swift (because there is an opportunity cost) but being close to or hitting cap should only be possible with sprinting. I like this multiplicative change much better than a straight nerf, which limits creativity of builds for classes that have never had access to permanent speed uptime (like all magicka classes).

The same diminished returns calculation should be applied to Major/Minor expedition as they currently calculate separately and actually give more than 40% speed total. This has been tested with Swift + Major vs Minor + Major. The calculation currently is:

((movement speed x 1.3) x1.1) = movement speed x 1.43

this should be changed to something like this:

((max speed - movement speed) * .3) + ((max speed - movement speed * 1.3) * .1) * movement speed = movement speed * 1.37

then if you add swift with the same method, you would get these results:

1 Swift = 1.1
2 Swift = 1.19
3 Swift = 1.27
Major + 1 Swift = 1.37
Major + 2 Swift = 1.43
Major + 3 Swift = 1.48
Major + Minor + 3 Swift = 1.53

This is much less than the current possibility of stacking which can cap at 1.73 without sprinting. Hitting the cap while sprinting is not an issue as that has been possible for a long time for medium builds with Major Expedition + something else (Minor Expedition or Orc/CP or all 7 medium) and more importantly it costs resources and skills can't be cast while sprinting. It's not popular, but a lower speed cap on heavy armor makes a lot of sense.

Nerfing swift to the point no one uses it would aweful because there is a cost to using it as is. Lower damage done and lower sustain is nothing to discount.