Wouldn't it just be better to make shields unstackable?

ArchMikem · September 2018

Neoealth wrote: »

I think shields being crittable is enough. The 40% cap based on your health is just silly.

If you want to be able to damage my shields, invest in shattering blows damn it. Just like I invested a ton of my points into bastion.

Bastion helps you against ALL players. Shattering Blows helps us against a select number of players. Not quite fair ain't it.

carlos424 · September 2018

I dont mind a shield nerf. But why such a huge one? I mean, nerf them by 40-50%, not 70-75%. I don’t mind tweaking some stats/skills on my characters to make them more survivable, but I really dont want to start over with a new playstyle. I’m gonna have to go back to being melee and using jabs on my magplar for crying out loud. For the love of Pete! Lol

BretonMage · September 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

No, because PVE content comes in tiers.

ZOS is going to look at whether top-tier players find top-tier content too easy (apparently yes).

ZOS is also going to look at whether average players find normal and vet dungeons too easy. "Healers are useless, we can ignore mechanics, and its better to have a fake tank for higher DPS" - say the forums, and then we wonder why ZOS decides to nerf survivability.

Thanks for your explanation. I don't know, call me old fashioned, but forcing people into rigid playstyles that they may not enjoy doesn't sound very laudable to me.

ZOS nerfing survivability just to encourage some kind of "ideal group configuration" sounds like an artificial band-aid measure that will hurt more players than it will help. I really don't see the advantage.

generalmyrick · September 2018

yes!

Sylvermynx · September 2018

@VaranisArano: thanks for those detailed explanations. I've got one of everything but magblade, not sure how this is all going to go. Not well probably, when you factor in my lag.... Unfortunately, I have a lot of fun with magicka users.... so that may change a great deal.

I suppose I'll adapt.

Jaraal · October 2018

BretonMage wrote: »

ZOS nerfing survivability just to encourage some kind of "ideal group configuration" sounds like an artificial band-aid measure that will hurt more players than it will help. I really don't see the advantage.

And yet that's exactly what they are doing by removing Minor Toughness from War Horn. They stated that they only want wardens to be able to cast it so that they will be more "desirable" in groups. So, let's hurt all solo players and groups without a warden available (and people who don't want to wear Warrior Poet) by chopping off the leg to fix the infected toe.

I have never played a game that has more meddling and tinkering by devs than this one. And that's why half of the posts on these forums are QQ about OP this and OMG I can't even play XXX class anymore it's so turrrrible, because they know ZOS will jump all over themselves trying to please the class with the most crying for any given week. And they don't make minor, subtle adjustments, they try to hit the ball out of the park with every change. Crazy!

cazlonb16_ESO · October 2018

Jameliel wrote: »

Most sorcs already go down fast when they get focused. How are they going to survive and do viable damage in group fights?

They'll have to live with trade-offs, like everybody else already does.

Try surviving focus on a glass cannon build Templar or Dk...good luck. Those Templar and Dk and Warden tank troll builds work because they are tank troll builds, not because they are Dk or Templar or Warden.

ResTandRespeC · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

[
More seriously, when PVE players find PVE content too easy because of skills like shields or because DPS is too high, the devs have to either nerf DPS or design new harder content that only the top tier players have a hope of doing.

But isn't it just the top tier players who are finding PVE content too easy? Doesn't this mean that average players will struggle even more to keep up? I think it's pretty unfair.

No, because PVE content comes in tiers.

ZOS is going to look at whether top-tier players find top-tier content too easy (apparently yes).

ZOS is also going to look at whether average players find normal and vet dungeons too easy. "Healers are useless, we can ignore mechanics, and its better to have a fake tank for higher DPS" - say the forums, and then we wonder why ZOS decides to nerf survivability.

You can see this with ZOS' new content. For trials players, ZOS is doing optional difficulty where groups can tackle more bosses. Asylum Sanctorium and Cloudrest style trials are necessary because ZOS wants there to be a challenge for the very top tier and people below that.

For dungeon players, ZOS has the DLC dungeons which require respecting mechanics (often to a frustrating degree with one shots and RNG) and require higher DPS to ignore mechanics.

Both trials and dungeons eventually hit an upper limit though. There is such a thing as too challenging, and no developer wants to spend a bunch of time making content that either only the top tier player will reach or that top tier players will tear through and call easy. this is obvious with trials, but even the DLC dungeons get their share of complaints for being too hard for players at that tier of content. How far can ZOS really push that envelope?

So the answer that ZOS keeps trying to do is to raise the floor and lower the ceiling. They...dont do it particularly well. The Summerset light attack buff raised the floor for new players who can do more damage with light attacks. It also buffed top tier players who are now getting their survivability nerfed to lower DPS.

I honestly consider myself to be an average player. I know the game and know my builds. My DPS never reaches the heights of top tier, largely due to a lack of practice at DPS rotations if I'm honest. I mostly stick to content I'm comfortable with.

So what does this mean to me? It means that if I keep the same old build/rotation and depend on my damage shields like I did before on my MagSorc, PVE content is going to be harder for me. This is apparently the Devs' goal. And I really cant complain too much if I've been having an easier time than intended.

It also means that if I put in the effort to reach the new top tier, I can still do so. The meta will continue to change and I'm still going to have to put in the effort if I want to go from average to top tier. That means practicing rotations and progression and all that. Its not impossible with the changes. It does mean that if I dont adapt, I'm going to have a much harder time of it. DPS recovered after the Great Sustain Nerf of Morrowind and it will recover after this too.

TLDR: All PVE players are getting nerfed because dungeons and trials were too easy for the people doing those tiers of content.

What you said about them being not particularly good at lower the ceiling and raising the floor is so true. Most high end players rarely use shields even in the toughest of content. This just hurts average to above average players who are learning and trying to progress forward. Basically just raising the ceiling again. Same thing that happened with morrowind (besides the fact that a large portion of the top end players left because they thought the slow paced heavy attack rotations were boring).

Lylith · October 2018

Wouldn't it just be better to make shields unstackable?

certainly, when damage and heals become unstackable.

Vicarra · October 2018

Clearly the ability exists for them to make a new shield override the previous one, since instances of the same buff will overwrite each other and not stack. That would solve the issue of shield stacking in PVP, which is hardly an issue anymore.

What is an issue is classes like templar and DK being able to heal their way through any amount of damage whilst also doing insane damage themselves. There are certain skills which are extremely broken in PVP that have nothing to do with magsorcs, but everyone (*cough NBs cough*) is so focused on nerfing magsorcs into nonexistence that they fly under the radar. Magsorc is now so unsatisfying and uncompetitive to play that I am going to be forced into playing the stam/heavy meta just to be able to survive.

Vapirko · October 2018

No you can’t, because it renders healing ward useless.

Thrasher91604 · October 2018

No.

Vicarra · October 2018

Could the people who just say "no" please elaborate on their answers? Why do you disagree with the OP's question? On what grounds? Considering that all of the complaints directed at sorc shields for the last several months are to do with shield stacking in PVP, perhaps you could explain why you think fixing the problem directly is less preferable than some other solution?

Sparr0w · October 2018

I just vote stacking cost increase, hard enough to keep up anyway without running 2x regen sets, regen food & regen mundus.