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A summary of Amazing CP Pvp.

leepalmer95
leepalmer95
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https://youtu.be/1z1yIlE2E4A

I muted the audio for a reason, I'm in a medium build with master dw , 30k stam and about 6k weapon dmg when rav + alch is proc'd with 46% crit. My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure.

So a single magplar healbot pretty much stopped us from ever winning that fight, over 30k hp, reactive and cleanse mean't we had no chance. This sort of setup is getting a nice minor protection buff next class, why isn't this being looked at? This isn't a case of 'we may have a chance' this is a this build in in this fight and that settles that. This type of build is stupidly broken and this was only one when you have zergs full of these then pvp becomes a joke.

Spent most of that fight stopping them reviving, they were reviving in front of us and it was only costing us stamina and literally no downsides for them. But hey, battle reviving is fine right?

Then we have the battle reviving, look at how OP and stupid it is. We sit there for 5 minutes constantly bashing people, wasting out GCD's so we can't go on the offensive, wasting our stamina. What downsides did the other players get for getting bashed? Literally nothing. They just went straight back to reviving again and again. This is the mindset in pvp now, not 'we still have double their numbers and a healer' lets try kill them it's. Lets just go for the revive and get an extra player, there is nothing they can do about it. It's even worse when you manage to drop like 6 people when being chased by a zerg in a duo or something, then your forced to move to rebuff and everyone you killed is already up again.

This is pvp now, everyone just makes a tank and wear people down, at least the zergs do. Doesn't matter if your sustain is bad, your healing is bad or your dmg is bad in a group like that. Healbots will heal for you, you can safely heavy attack if you need and you can be hitting 3k dawnbreaker's or 3k shalks but it doesn't matter when you have numbers and drop 4-5 at once. Group will make up for your bad dmg. All people need to do is build to be near unburstable so the healers can heal you without even looking at you.

It's great how they're buffing magplars and wardens? Do zos even pvp. Stam warden is the strongest class in pvp at the moment but lets give them sustain buff, cost reduction and flat out dmg increase amazing. Oh whats that? Healbots are tanky enough already, make them more tanky.

Lets nerf light armour by nerfing shields and nerf medium armour by nerfing shuffle and making medium more squishy overall, that'll force the last remaining people into heavy finally, i assume this is zos's goal. Even though i'm running medium on this stamplar i know for a fact that in cp pvp atleast heavy is just better and next patch with no actual buff to medium i'll 100% use heavy. I assume classes like mag sorc and stam nb will do too.

It's fights like this that make me question is zos even play their game, it's stuff like this that needs nerfing yet zos decided to gut shields, nerf mag dk and buff these play styles .


Also challenge for anyone, want to count how many bashes we had to do?


Edited by leepalmer95 on September 29, 2018 1:11PM
PS4 EU DC

Current CP : 756+

I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Soris
    Soris
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    It was a 2v4 fight and they had a dedicated healer, probably in voice comms too.. What did you expect really? You cant roflstomp everything with a minmaxed build and im pretty sure that healer is also minmaxed and it is sooo normal that his build can perform very well just like your build. There is nothing wrong here. If you could easily one shot a tanky healer with ulti dump, then what is the point playing a healer right?

    Keep in mind your build is also getting strong buffs such as stamina recovery and easy uptime on Major protection through ultimate. So if we do some reverse thinking, a build with 6k weapon damage and insane burst is getting major protection and stamina recovery. With your words: "Why isnt this being looking at?"

    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • Stigant
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    The thing is... from watching that video..
    There are 2 guys outperforming and outplaying 4 players in open field, without really needing to LoS or go defensive... and even tho I understand the "raise the floor, lower the ceiling" philosophy ZoS decided to embrace, watching 2 clearly better players struggle to defeat 4 cannon fodder potatoes, just because they have ridiculously tanky healer, saddens me a lot. And also reminds me why do I only PvP in NoCP environment only.
    Edited by Stigant on September 29, 2018 2:25PM
  • Joy_Division
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    So because "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure," you're salty because you didn't win a 2v4 fight, when all four of the other players are high ranks (1 was a GO) and know what they are doing?

    3 of your opponents were no damage tanks (and even the 4th 's damage was nothing to write home about) and they run those builds probably because of complaints by people such as you: "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure please nerf healbots, nerf bock, nerf anything preventing me from getting the kills I deserve in a 2v4 vs non-potatoes. And so ZOS does, which means people who hate dying (most) look to powerful gear sets to make up for their loss of class abilities to defend themselves. Reactive, HistSap, Wizard's riposte, Pirate skeleton, etc., I am going to wear those because it's the best tool in the game vs "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure".

    What kind of PvP balance are you looking for? Your health did not drop under 90% the entire time until they rezzed the dead guy. You want a game in which 2 DPS can take out a 4 tanks without ever having their health bar scratched? Sounds totally balanced!
    Edited by Joy_Division on September 29, 2018 2:57PM
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Soris wrote: »
    It was a 2v4 fight and they had a dedicated healer, probably in voice comms too.. What did you expect really? You cant roflstomp everything with a minmaxed build and im pretty sure that healer is also minmaxed and it is sooo normal that his build can perform very well just like your build. There is nothing wrong here. If you could easily one shot a tanky healer with ulti dump, then what is the point playing a healer right?

    Keep in mind your build is also getting strong buffs such as stamina recovery and easy uptime on Major protection through ultimate. So if we do some reverse thinking, a build with 6k weapon damage and insane burst is getting major protection and stamina recovery. With your words: "Why isnt this being looking at?"

    So there fact we can't even touch the healers hp is fine?

    Is that your logic? They have a healer so you may as well give up and die.

    Where is my major protection? What?

    What about the fact they say there trying to revive for 5m straight and we're wasting stamina and global cool downs interrupting them? Where is the balance there.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Sanctum74
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    I thought mag sorcs were the only ones that wanted the game balanced around being out numbered?

    Seriously though you both held your own being outnumbered for 5 minutes, so who really needs to be nerfed them or you?

  • revonine
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    Idea for new 5-pc set. Place a "corpse bomb" akin to that fang lair mechanic on a player that you kill or recently died after you damaged him. Adjust number values as necessary.
  • leepalmer95
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    I thought mag sorcs were the only ones that wanted the game balanced around being out numbered?

    Seriously though you both held your own being outnumbered for 5 minutes, so who really needs to be nerfed them or you?

    Or they were really bad players who spent more time trying to revive than dropping their 3k dawnbreaker.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    So because "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure," you're salty because you didn't win a 2v4 fight, when all four of the other players are high ranks (1 was a GO) and know what they are doing?

    3 of your opponents were no damage tanks (and even the 4th 's damage was nothing to write home about) and they run those builds probably because of complaints by people such as you: "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure please nerf healbots, nerf bock, nerf anything preventing me from getting the kills I deserve in a 2v4 vs non-potatoes. And so ZOS does, which means people who hate dying (most) look to powerful gear sets to make up for their loss of class abilities to defend themselves. Reactive, HistSap, Wizard's riposte, Pirate skeleton, etc., I am going to wear those because it's the best tool in the game vs "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure".

    What kind of PvP balance are you looking for? Your health did not drop under 90% the entire time until they rezzed the dead guy. You want a game in which 2 DPS can take out a 4 tanks without ever having their health bar scratched? Sounds totally balanced!

    They were terrible players, I run a similar type of build on my warden yet i'd atleast drop my stamplar to 50-40% in a single burst on it.

    Of course its because i mentioned healbot and your all about buffing templars seems as its your main.

    Impartial class rep i see.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Crixus8000
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    That's why I stick to no cp lol. No cp has it's issues with bleeds, procs and poisons overperforming but at least I can kill people.

    I play only no cp and my dmg is fine but the few times I tried cp pvp it always feel like im doing nothing, even with 6k wep dmg too. 99% of duels end because we both give up, most people you meet have infinate sustain and crazy survivability. I definitely prefer no cp.

    And yes I hate battle reviving. Another thing that rewards people so much for grouping and xv1ing. It's stupid how they can just keep spamming it, forcing you to have to waste your gcds and stamina over and over again instead of killing others or being able to use los defensively.

  • Kadoin
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    If you think that is bad, wait until next patch...
  • Sanctum74
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    @Joy_Division ignore the haters, you've done so much to help the community through the years and actually provided logic in your post. Some people just can't let their ego's go and take the L and move on. It's just a game, you don't have to win every battle.
  • VaranisArano
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    Its CP small scale.

    There's a reason ZOS removed CP from Battlegrounds. TTK was really high, in a 4v4v4 environment.

    However, ZOS has to balance for ALL of Cyrodiil. That's everything from small scale to 24-man raids, to full PUG zergs. What seems unbalanced in small scale is usually more balanced in large scale, especially in CP PVP. The tank/healer groups of CP battlegrounds didnt fare that well in large group Cyrodiil play.


    ZOS generally doesn't balance for the situation where "a duo drops 6 people while facing a zerg". Like, how do you really expect that situation to end?

    And yes, I do agree with @Joy_Division that as enemy players focus more on single-target pressure, healers are going to get tankier in response through gear sets. Its like an arms race. The better you get at killing my healer, the better I have to get at staying alive. If you nerf my healing skills, heck yes I'm going to use gear sets.


    Battlegrounds is actually an interesting proving ground. Organized groups with a dedicated healer are quite strong. Disorganized groups with a dedicated healer tend to suck. By that metric, I wager that its group organization thats the key, even more than mere healing and survivability.
    Edited by VaranisArano on September 29, 2018 5:08PM
  • Soris
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    Soris wrote: »
    It was a 2v4 fight and they had a dedicated healer, probably in voice comms too.. What did you expect really? You cant roflstomp everything with a minmaxed build and im pretty sure that healer is also minmaxed and it is sooo normal that his build can perform very well just like your build. There is nothing wrong here. If you could easily one shot a tanky healer with ulti dump, then what is the point playing a healer right?

    Keep in mind your build is also getting strong buffs such as stamina recovery and easy uptime on Major protection through ultimate. So if we do some reverse thinking, a build with 6k weapon damage and insane burst is getting major protection and stamina recovery. With your words: "Why isnt this being looking at?"

    So there fact we can't even touch the healers hp is fine?

    Is that your logic? They have a healer so you may as well give up and die.

    Where is my major protection? What?

    What about the fact they say there trying to revive for 5m straight and we're wasting stamina and global cool downs interrupting them? Where is the balance there.
    What balance are you talking about? You have a selfish "balance" mentality that basically you want to kill anyone with that glass cannon build and take no damage. Sorry that's not going to work in any game.

    All of them were tanks/healtanks and were actively healing through constant HoTs and burst heals. They couldnt do any considerable damage to you 2 too. So.. It's "one build counters the other" situation. And it is balanced.

    Ps: Templar is getting stamina version of empowering sweep and it will give 10++ seconds of major protection in next patch.
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    So because "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure," you're salty because you didn't win a 2v4 fight, when all four of the other players are high ranks (1 was a GO) and know what they are doing?

    3 of your opponents were no damage tanks (and even the 4th 's damage was nothing to write home about) and they run those builds probably because of complaints by people such as you: "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure please nerf healbots, nerf bock, nerf anything preventing me from getting the kills I deserve in a 2v4 vs non-potatoes. And so ZOS does, which means people who hate dying (most) look to powerful gear sets to make up for their loss of class abilities to defend themselves. Reactive, HistSap, Wizard's riposte, Pirate skeleton, etc., I am going to wear those because it's the best tool in the game vs "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure".

    What kind of PvP balance are you looking for? Your health did not drop under 90% the entire time until they rezzed the dead guy. You want a game in which 2 DPS can take out a 4 tanks without ever having their health bar scratched? Sounds totally balanced!

    They were terrible players, I run a similar type of build on my warden yet i'd atleast drop my stamplar to 50-40% in a single burst on it.

    Of course its because i mentioned healbot and your all about buffing templars seems as its your main.

    Impartial class rep i see.

    You're calling me impartial? That's rich. You come onto these forums and insert your opinion about everything and anything as if you're this amazing player who has a better grasp of ESO than all the people you dismiss as being terrible.

    Yeah, I'm all about templars. That's why during our class meeting that lasted 2 hours I told ZOS it was better to not talk about templars at all because there were so many pain points involving other classes that ought to be prioritized.
    Edited by Joy_Division on September 29, 2018 5:22PM
  • CatchMeTrolling
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    I don’t think this is a situation of balance but one where the players don’t know when to walk away. You described them as tanks and having a healer. Why waste your time attempting to deal with them, I walk away from players like that.

    Also consider the game isn’t balanced around 1vx or small scale, cyrodiil caters to large scale. Speaking of small scale, Healbots aren’t exclusive to xvoutnumbered since small scale groups use them too. Albeit, hate when they have to face them.

    Lastly, reviving can be annoying but that doesn’t mean it needs a change. It’s a double edge sword, meaning you would have to deal with a revive nerf too. Even if zos nerfs healing across the board you’ll also take a hit. Complaining from small scalers is actually why a lot of small scale tools got nerfed to uselessness or just about. Because when zergers used the tools too (proxy det is one) zos had to nerf them because of the complaints.
    Edited by CatchMeTrolling on September 29, 2018 5:30PM
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    So because "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure," you're salty because you didn't win a 2v4 fight, when all four of the other players are high ranks (1 was a GO) and know what they are doing?

    3 of your opponents were no damage tanks (and even the 4th 's damage was nothing to write home about) and they run those builds probably because of complaints by people such as you: "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure please nerf healbots, nerf bock, nerf anything preventing me from getting the kills I deserve in a 2v4 vs non-potatoes. And so ZOS does, which means people who hate dying (most) look to powerful gear sets to make up for their loss of class abilities to defend themselves. Reactive, HistSap, Wizard's riposte, Pirate skeleton, etc., I am going to wear those because it's the best tool in the game vs "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure".

    What kind of PvP balance are you looking for? Your health did not drop under 90% the entire time until they rezzed the dead guy. You want a game in which 2 DPS can take out a 4 tanks without ever having their health bar scratched? Sounds totally balanced!

    They were terrible players, I run a similar type of build on my warden yet i'd atleast drop my stamplar to 50-40% in a single burst on it.
    Soris wrote: »
    Soris wrote: »
    It was a 2v4 fight and they had a dedicated healer, probably in voice comms too.. What did you expect really? You cant roflstomp everything with a minmaxed build and im pretty sure that healer is also minmaxed and it is sooo normal that his build can perform very well just like your build. There is nothing wrong here. If you could easily one shot a tanky healer with ulti dump, then what is the point playing a healer right?

    Keep in mind your build is also getting strong buffs such as stamina recovery and easy uptime on Major protection through ultimate. So if we do some reverse thinking, a build with 6k weapon damage and insane burst is getting major protection and stamina recovery. With your words: "Why isnt this being looking at?"

    So there fact we can't even touch the healers hp is fine?

    Is that your logic? They have a healer so you may as well give up and die.

    Where is my major protection? What?

    What about the fact they say there trying to revive for 5m straight and we're wasting stamina and global cool downs interrupting them? Where is the balance there.
    What balance are you talking about? You have a selfish "balance" mentality that basically you want to kill anyone with that glass cannon build and take no damage. Sorry that's not going to work in any game.

    All of them were tanks/healtanks and were actively healing through constant HoTs and burst heals. They couldnt do any considerable damage to you 2 too. So.. It's "one build counters the other" situation. And it is balanced.

    Ps: Templar is getting stamina version of empowering sweep and it will give 10++ seconds of major protection in next patch.

    Do i want to kill everyone easy? No.

    Do i want to be able to actually move the healbars? Yes.

    Do i want something to be done with battle reviving? Yes.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Mister_DMC
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    Well Palmer I watched up to 2:30 which is exactly as long as I would have tried to kill them then simply sheathed my swords and walked away. CP PvP isn't fun and I only do it when I have to. No cp is much more fun but completely dead on console.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    So because "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure," you're salty because you didn't win a 2v4 fight, when all four of the other players are high ranks (1 was a GO) and know what they are doing?

    3 of your opponents were no damage tanks (and even the 4th 's damage was nothing to write home about) and they run those builds probably because of complaints by people such as you: "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure please nerf healbots, nerf bock, nerf anything preventing me from getting the kills I deserve in a 2v4 vs non-potatoes. And so ZOS does, which means people who hate dying (most) look to powerful gear sets to make up for their loss of class abilities to defend themselves. Reactive, HistSap, Wizard's riposte, Pirate skeleton, etc., I am going to wear those because it's the best tool in the game vs "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure".

    What kind of PvP balance are you looking for? Your health did not drop under 90% the entire time until they rezzed the dead guy. You want a game in which 2 DPS can take out a 4 tanks without ever having their health bar scratched? Sounds totally balanced!

    They were terrible players, I run a similar type of build on my warden yet i'd atleast drop my stamplar to 50-40% in a single burst on it.

    Of course its because i mentioned healbot and your all about buffing templars seems as its your main.

    Impartial class rep i see.

    You're calling me impartial? That's rich. You come onto these forums and insert your opinion about everything and anything as if you're this amazing player who has a better grasp of ESO than all the people you dismiss as being terrible.

    Yeah, I'm all about templars. That's why during our class meeting that lasted 2 hours I told ZOS it was better to not talk about templars at all because there were so many pain points involving other classes that ought to be prioritized.

    Didn't the other representatives let you solely give your feedback for the templar class youself through an email? It seems strange to allow a person to solely give the balance feedback on their main.

    And yes i do throw opinions of course i do. Have you seen this forum lately.

    I quit a few weeks into the morrowind patch and took a long break, came back properly for the event and i'm not sure whats happened to the game and these forums. There is a lot less long term pvp'ers on here instead all i see is thread complaining about stuff like sorc shields, cloak etc... by people who have played for 3-6 months and play 2 characters or so.

    Yet zos and the class representatives of course take all feedback, which yeah but dictating balance from obvious bias is not smart.

    So i quit the game and come back to a game where all of half good pvp'ers run heavy and 30k and zos's balance is too nerf the niche medium/ light users for some reason.

    Whatever the representative system is mean't to be doing it's not working. I've seen lots of obvious bias from representatives on this forum as well. I highly doubt feedback of the opposite opinion of them is shared much. It doesn't seem like it is.

    I think i'm about done with the game completely anyway, the games not going to recovery. My server can't even pop lock vivec in pvp. You sit in pve queues for 30-1hr for a dungeon sometimes, but i'm so people will continue to reassure me that the game is doing fine. That X amount of players who downloaded etc.....



    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Mister_DMC wrote: »
    Well Palmer I watched up to 2:30 which is exactly as long as I would have tried to kill them then simply sheathed my swords and walked away. CP PvP isn't fun and I only do it when I have to. No cp is much more fun but completely dead on console.

    It's a sad state the game has reached when an answer to a fight is just walk away now. Because cp and the heavy meta has come this far. Yet zos nerfed light and medium this patch.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • VaranisArano
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    I'm curious. What exactly do you want to happen to battle-reviving, considering that it has to be balanced in tandem with PVE?

    If you cant stop the player's teammates fron reviving them, either because you can't keep up bash or you cant kill them or you have to escape the zerg, what exactly do you want to happen?

    Do keep in mind that if you add additional penalties to dying, then you incentivize players to just get tankier and run more healers. Oh, and organized groups will still have a much easier time of it than disorganized players, so organized groups will become even more dominant.
  • leepalmer95
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    I'm curious. What exactly do you want to happen to battle-reviving, considering that it has to be balanced in tandem with PVE?

    If you cant stop the player's teammates fron reviving them, either because you can't keep up bash or you cant kill them or you have to escape the zerg, what exactly do you want to happen?

    Do keep in mind that if you add additional penalties to dying, then you incentivize players to just get tankier and run more healers. Oh, and organized groups will still have a much easier time of it than disorganized players, so organized groups will become even more dominant.

    If your bashed you can't start another revive for 10s

    In pvp in the battle spirit, reviving speed is increased by 400% so 4x. So it's not something you just do infront of someone, it's something you do if safe enough.

    Or in pvp you can't only battle revive out of combat.

    Something along the lines of that.

    So there is actual consequences for getting caught out and dying in pvp and not currently where it's 'Oh I died, don't worry i'l be up in 2s, it'll be like it never happened' .
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    I'm curious. What exactly do you want to happen to battle-reviving, considering that it has to be balanced in tandem with PVE?

    If you cant stop the player's teammates fron reviving them, either because you can't keep up bash or you cant kill them or you have to escape the zerg, what exactly do you want to happen?

    Do keep in mind that if you add additional penalties to dying, then you incentivize players to just get tankier and run more healers. Oh, and organized groups will still have a much easier time of it than disorganized players, so organized groups will become even more dominant.

    If your bashed you can't start another revive for 10s

    In pvp in the battle spirit, reviving speed is increased by 400% so 4x. So it's not something you just do infront of someone, it's something you do if safe enough.

    Or in pvp you can't only battle revive out of combat.

    Something along the lines of that.

    So there is actual consequences for getting caught out and dying in pvp and not currently where it's 'Oh I died, don't worry i'l be up in 2s, it'll be like it never happened' .

    I could see one of the first two being workable. Not being able to revive unless out of combat is stupid, unless you've never dealt with being held in combat for ages after disengaging. Its a battle-rez, not a wait for an eternity after your last HOT stopped before you can rez someone.

    Either way, keep in mind that organized groups will always adapt to nerfs better than disorganized players. This is definitely one of those changes that would nerf small scale and disorganized players battle-rezzing, while allowing larger organized raids to bring more and protect their battle-rezzers. Large organized raids would be less inconvenienced than anyone else, and thus be more dominant in situations requiring battle-rezzes.

    And again, you want there to be consequences to death? Thats only going to incentivize people who dont want to die to build tanky and have dedicated healers, just like Joy_Division said.

    Death being relatively cheap in PVP works in favor of newer and disorganized players. Death being costly works in favor of experienced organized groups, and the larger the group the better. Every suggestion you make to favor your small organized group only makes the large organized raids that much more dominant over everyone else.
  • LeifErickson
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    I watched the video and to me it looked like you guys could have easily won that fight, but you weren't timing your ults or even focusing the same guy most of the time. I will agree that the current res mechanics are dumb though.

    About heavy armor, we have been in a heavy armor meta since Dark Brotherhood and I would argue it's currently at it's least worse since then. If all of the good damage sets were not in heavy, more stamina toons would probably go medium. But you actually lose a ton of damage going heavy on magicka so I'd say it's more balanced there. In my opinion, the heavy armor meta is not nearly as bad as it used to be. It is disappointing that damage shields are getting nerfed, but I would argue medium is getting a buff next patch. The weapon damage buff is small but not insignificant and the new shuffle I think is not only going to be much better, but too good. It's honestly better for just about every situation except against fighting a nightblade. Otherwise you are basically taking 25% less damage on every combo on all the other classes. I don't see how that is a nerf in any way.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    I'm curious. What exactly do you want to happen to battle-reviving, considering that it has to be balanced in tandem with PVE?

    If you cant stop the player's teammates fron reviving them, either because you can't keep up bash or you cant kill them or you have to escape the zerg, what exactly do you want to happen?

    Do keep in mind that if you add additional penalties to dying, then you incentivize players to just get tankier and run more healers. Oh, and organized groups will still have a much easier time of it than disorganized players, so organized groups will become even more dominant.

    The duration of the rez channel needs to get the streak treatment based on how many times a player has died.

    If the player dies once, they have a normal rez channel time. If they die again within two minutes, the duration of the channel should be doubled. If they die a third time, within two minutes of the second death, the duration of the channel should be doubled again (quadrupled from the total). Die a fourth time, doubled again, etc. their fourth revive if they keep dying continuously should be a 32s channel (prob down to 16s or so with temp passives, but sill, it’d be taking someone else out of the fight for a while too)

    Forward camps and actual respawns wouldn’t fall in this category.

    I think it’s important that the scaling timer tracks the player that is being rezzed, not the player that’s doing the rezzing.
    Edited by Thogard on September 29, 2018 7:39PM
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Ariades_swe
    Ariades_swe
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    So because "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure," you're salty because you didn't win a 2v4 fight, when all four of the other players are high ranks (1 was a GO) and know what they are doing?

    3 of your opponents were no damage tanks (and even the 4th 's damage was nothing to write home about) and they run those builds probably because of complaints by people such as you: "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure please nerf healbots, nerf bock, nerf anything preventing me from getting the kills I deserve in a 2v4 vs non-potatoes. And so ZOS does, which means people who hate dying (most) look to powerful gear sets to make up for their loss of class abilities to defend themselves. Reactive, HistSap, Wizard's riposte, Pirate skeleton, etc., I am going to wear those because it's the best tool in the game vs "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure".

    What kind of PvP balance are you looking for? Your health did not drop under 90% the entire time until they rezzed the dead guy. You want a game in which 2 DPS can take out a 4 tanks without ever having their health bar scratched? Sounds totally balanced!

    They were terrible players, I run a similar type of build on my warden yet i'd atleast drop my stamplar to 50-40% in a single burst on it.

    Of course its because i mentioned healbot and your all about buffing templars seems as its your main.

    Impartial class rep i see.

    You're calling me impartial? That's rich. You come onto these forums and insert your opinion about everything and anything as if you're this amazing player who has a better grasp of ESO than all the people you dismiss as being terrible.

    Yeah, I'm all about templars. That's why during our class meeting that lasted 2 hours I told ZOS it was better to not talk about templars at all because there were so many pain points involving other classes that ought to be prioritized.

    Didn't the other representatives let you solely give your feedback for the templar class youself through an email? It seems strange to allow a person to solely give the balance feedback on their main.

    And yes i do throw opinions of course i do. Have you seen this forum lately.

    I quit a few weeks into the morrowind patch and took a long break, came back properly for the event and i'm not sure whats happened to the game and these forums. There is a lot less long term pvp'ers on here instead all i see is thread complaining about stuff like sorc shields, cloak etc... by people who have played for 3-6 months and play 2 characters or so.

    Yet zos and the class representatives of course take all feedback, which yeah but dictating balance from obvious bias is not smart.

    So i quit the game and come back to a game where all of half good pvp'ers run heavy and 30k and zos's balance is too nerf the niche medium/ light users for some reason.

    Whatever the representative system is mean't to be doing it's not working. I've seen lots of obvious bias from representatives on this forum as well. I highly doubt feedback of the opposite opinion of them is shared much. It doesn't seem like it is.

    I think i'm about done with the game completely anyway, the games not going to recovery. My server can't even pop lock vivec in pvp. You sit in pve queues for 30-1hr for a dungeon sometimes, but i'm so people will continue to reassure me that the game is doing fine. That X amount of players who downloaded etc.....


    ...
    Edited by Ariades_swe on September 29, 2018 7:52PM
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Thogard wrote: »
    I'm curious. What exactly do you want to happen to battle-reviving, considering that it has to be balanced in tandem with PVE?

    If you cant stop the player's teammates fron reviving them, either because you can't keep up bash or you cant kill them or you have to escape the zerg, what exactly do you want to happen?

    Do keep in mind that if you add additional penalties to dying, then you incentivize players to just get tankier and run more healers. Oh, and organized groups will still have a much easier time of it than disorganized players, so organized groups will become even more dominant.

    The duration of the rez channel needs to get the streak treatment based on how many times a player has died.

    If the player dies once, they have a normal rez channel time. If they die again within two minutes, the duration of the channel should be doubled. If they die a third time, within two minutes of the second death, the duration of the channel should be doubled again (quadrupled from the total). Die a fourth time, doubled again, etc. their fourth revive if they keep dying continuously should be a 32s channel (prob down to 16s or so with temp passives, but sill, it’d be taking someone else out of the fight for a while too)

    Forward camps and actual respawns wouldn’t fall in this category.

    I think it’s important that the scaling timer tracks the player that is being rezzed, not the player that’s doing the rezzing.

    I'm LMAO at the idea of "the more you die, the longer it takes someone else to rez your sorry butt."

    I'd be a lot less likely to rez random PUGs if I'm solo zerg-surfing, but I suspect large organized raids would handle that just fine.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    So because "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure," you're salty because you didn't win a 2v4 fight, when all four of the other players are high ranks (1 was a GO) and know what they are doing?

    3 of your opponents were no damage tanks (and even the 4th 's damage was nothing to write home about) and they run those builds probably because of complaints by people such as you: "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure please nerf healbots, nerf bock, nerf anything preventing me from getting the kills I deserve in a 2v4 vs non-potatoes. And so ZOS does, which means people who hate dying (most) look to powerful gear sets to make up for their loss of class abilities to defend themselves. Reactive, HistSap, Wizard's riposte, Pirate skeleton, etc., I am going to wear those because it's the best tool in the game vs "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure".

    What kind of PvP balance are you looking for? Your health did not drop under 90% the entire time until they rezzed the dead guy. You want a game in which 2 DPS can take out a 4 tanks without ever having their health bar scratched? Sounds totally balanced!

    They were terrible players, I run a similar type of build on my warden yet i'd atleast drop my stamplar to 50-40% in a single burst on it.

    Of course its because i mentioned healbot and your all about buffing templars seems as its your main.

    Impartial class rep i see.

    You're calling me impartial? That's rich. You come onto these forums and insert your opinion about everything and anything as if you're this amazing player who has a better grasp of ESO than all the people you dismiss as being terrible.

    Yeah, I'm all about templars. That's why during our class meeting that lasted 2 hours I told ZOS it was better to not talk about templars at all because there were so many pain points involving other classes that ought to be prioritized.

    Didn't the other representatives let you solely give your feedback for the templar class youself through an email? It seems strange to allow a person to solely give the balance feedback on their main.

    And yes i do throw opinions of course i do. Have you seen this forum lately.

    I quit a few weeks into the morrowind patch and took a long break, came back properly for the event and i'm not sure whats happened to the game and these forums. There is a lot less long term pvp'ers on here instead all i see is thread complaining about stuff like sorc shields, cloak etc... by people who have played for 3-6 months and play 2 characters or so.

    Yet zos and the class representatives of course take all feedback, which yeah but dictating balance from obvious bias is not smart.

    So i quit the game and come back to a game where all of half good pvp'ers run heavy and 30k and zos's balance is too nerf the niche medium/ light users for some reason.

    Whatever the representative system is mean't to be doing it's not working. I've seen lots of obvious bias from representatives on this forum as well. I highly doubt feedback of the opposite opinion of them is shared much. It doesn't seem like it is.

    I think i'm about done with the game completely anyway, the games not going to recovery. My server can't even pop lock vivec in pvp. You sit in pve queues for 30-1hr for a dungeon sometimes, but i'm so people will continue to reassure me that the game is doing fine. That X amount of players who downloaded etc.....



    The other reps (particularly Checkmath) gave me input to put into the document and there were times I straight up copy and pasted feedback left by people in the Templar Discord and as well as official thread here on the forums. I'm not the self-interested biased rep you are trying to portray me as.

    It's one thing to give opinions, it's another one to base them on the presumption that they are correct because you are an awesome player and the vast majority of your opponents are terrible.

    My guess is you are going to struggle to find satisfaction in ESO and probably a lot of other games because you are convinced that you are so much better than everyone else and attribute a failure to win a 2v4 against all high ranked players, due to terrible game balance. The irony is those 4 people you faced might think they're better than you. The vast majority of ESO players who are halfway decent at the game has an over-inflated sense of just how good they are and how supposedly terrible 95% of the playerbase is. It's lucky I have push to talk button because I literally laugh out loud when I hear some of the people I play with comment about how terrible everyone is. One doesn't play anymore, but he was your typically "nobody in the game does more damage than me" type who constantly got himself killed because he grossly overestimated how good he was and it was a running joke among our healers how often they'd have to waste soul gems and camps revving him. He doesn't play now either because he thinks ZOS dumbed down the game to an extent that allowed "casuals" to kill him. This type of player is impossible to please because the devs have to balance against their over-inflated ego that does not correspond to reality.

    From what you type my sense is that you are in the top tier of players and I can see why you get frustrated when you die because most of the time it's going to be against players who aren't as good as you. That being said, there are a lot of players out who play every night who may not be expert players but are good enough not to just roll over and die and these are the sorts of players the make it very difficult to 1vX and fight outnumbered. All of your opponents fell into that description. The only chance of winning was if some of them were overconfident glass cannons, but none of them were. They were all tanks.

    OK, you don't like tanks. Neither do I. But people who are not confident in their skill are going to build that way because it's the only way not to die and feel like they made a contribution against 6000 weapon damage builds that can insta-kill a non-tank. Maybe if their class and defensive skills didn't get nerfed/removed because of people complaining; they might go for offensive oriented builds that you could kill. But it's too late, that ship has long since sailed.

    Where I disagree with you most is your attitude toward "healbots." You seem to want to play a PVP where the only role is "DPS" and there is no such thing as a dedicated healer who keeps terrible players and scrubs alive. Again this is impossible to balance around because you're basically asking the devs to eliminate play-styles that counter the role you opted to play. You're not going to find any representation program that are going to help you there.


  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Thogard wrote: »
    I'm curious. What exactly do you want to happen to battle-reviving, considering that it has to be balanced in tandem with PVE?

    If you cant stop the player's teammates fron reviving them, either because you can't keep up bash or you cant kill them or you have to escape the zerg, what exactly do you want to happen?

    Do keep in mind that if you add additional penalties to dying, then you incentivize players to just get tankier and run more healers. Oh, and organized groups will still have a much easier time of it than disorganized players, so organized groups will become even more dominant.

    The duration of the rez channel needs to get the streak treatment based on how many times a player has died.

    If the player dies once, they have a normal rez channel time. If they die again within two minutes, the duration of the channel should be doubled. If they die a third time, within two minutes of the second death, the duration of the channel should be doubled again (quadrupled from the total). Die a fourth time, doubled again, etc. their fourth revive if they keep dying continuously should be a 32s channel (prob down to 16s or so with temp passives, but sill, it’d be taking someone else out of the fight for a while too)

    Forward camps and actual respawns wouldn’t fall in this category.

    I think it’s important that the scaling timer tracks the player that is being rezzed, not the player that’s doing the rezzing.

    I'm LMAO at the idea of "the more you die, the longer it takes someone else to rez your sorry butt."

    I'd be a lot less likely to rez random PUGs if I'm solo zerg-surfing, but I suspect large organized raids would handle that just fine.

    Yeah man. I just want the rez penalty to stay on the one that keeps dying... repeatedly dying should have actual consequence imo.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Stigant
    Stigant
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    I don’t think this is a situation of balance but one where the players don’t know when to walk away. You described them as tanks and having a healer. Why waste your time attempting to deal with them, I walk away from players like that.

    While that particular situation might not have been the case, problem with groups like this, 4 tanky players and healer, is that they usually don't let you just walk away, especially EP skyrim fanboys on PC EU (from mz experience) and I bet it's very similar on other platforms ... they will go after you keep snaring and CC ing you doing their subpar damage which they sacrificed for their tankiness and keep you in combat ... and after you finally shake them off, they will start keyboardwarrioring you in PMs or even better, come to forums complaining about overperformjng forward momentum, stamina mobility, Vigor or simply anything they will blame for their inability to kill you.

    I know I know... raise floor, lower ceiling, let players get their alliance ranks faster (that's why it doesn't matter any more), but to be honest if I was in that fight and those 5 guys would be able to drop me in within a minute or less, I d say fair enough, I overextended, got outnumbered and killed in 2v5 by group that knows what are they doing... but ... having to fight their ress attempts on their NB friend and seeing they have no clue how to drop my duo of pure DDs, surviving and getting carried by incredibly tanky pocket healer, knowing that if I try to pull out they will follow me right the second one of them gets the 5th one ressed, I'd be as triggered as OP, in all honesty.
  • Xeniph
    Xeniph
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    Funny...I watched this and all I could think was...

    Pfft, I would have popped the 1h shield ulti or an immovable pot to rez. LOL

    I think most in this thread have already nailed this. But I see nothing wrong here. Rezzing mid fight is SUPPOSED to happen. There is even a passive in the CP that reduces your damage when doing it.

    Answer me this though. If you or your teammate had died, would the other person run to drop a camp? You don't have to answer, we all know someone would have

    Also I have to point out that it didn't look much like they were threatened by you two. In fact it seemed all they wanted to do was rez their buddy and ignore ya'all.
    Here since Beta.

    Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.
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