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SWIFT DOES NOT NEED A NERF!
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Adernath✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »This is a stupid request
I'm a solo player that doesn't use swift on any of my toons and I have no issues with it. I have yet to have any amount of swift kill me.
If it bothers anyone maybe stop chasing people.
Now Forward Momentum is a whole other ball of wax. I do feel this ability is over the top. It's great when your build can utilize it, but you really feel the loss if you have to use Rally and rely on the wopping 3 second immunity from Shuffle.
Instead of nerfing it though, I'd rather see a buff to the other immunity abilities.
Swift doesn't kill you it makes other people impossible to hit or actually chase.
Anyone remembering the arguments before the streak resource nerf way back?1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FM is indeed too strong/long, but swift is also too strong (3x).
PC EU
PvP only2 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
Thank you so much for your answer
I'm sad to see that they are looking at the wrong end of the problem, as a single 70% snare negates both 3x Swift + Major Expedition.
But there is nothing that negates Forward Momentum. There is no possible counter to FW. It is FM that allows super un-negated, un-conterable speed.
So I guess LA and Heavy specs will remain slow as snails.
Can you please push for those changes (whatever they are planning) to be introduced via Battle Spirit?
If any nerf is going to happen, it needs to stay out of PvE.
Thanks again 2 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Swift is not the problem the long snare/immobilation immunity from forward momentum is, pls ZOS let the combat team take note of this.
It's not the snare/immobilisation immunity from forward momentum, it's because swift makes it too OP, we were totally fine with momentum before swift, pls ZOS let the combat team take a note of this.
NERF SWIFT.Edited by Nyladreas on September 26, 2018 7:44AM1 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift is not the problem the long snare/immobilation immunity from forward momentum is, pls ZOS let the combat team take note of this.
It's not the snare/immobilisation immunity from forward momentum, it's because swift makes it too OP, we were totally fine with momentum before swift, pls ZOS let the combat team take a note of this.
NERF SWIFT.
Swift is going to be nerfed and apparently, so is Major Expedition (enjoy your riding simulator in Cyrodiil).
But even if they nerf Swift by 50% and put Major Expedition at 25% instead of 30%, you are still looking at 40% speed increase that you won't be able to counter thanks to Forward Momentum.
If FM stays the way it is, only removing Swift from the game (or from PvP) can make a small difference but now that people got a taste of speed power, the speed meta will simply remain.
People were mostly running Rally, this is why FM was not that big of an issue before Summerset.
Now that they found out the real power of a full immunity, they won't let go of FM and again, the speed meta will remain.
But I guess I don't care, as long as any further nerf to speed is kept out of PvE.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Swift is not the problem the long snare/immobilation immunity from forward momentum is, pls ZOS let the combat team take note of this.
It's not the snare/immobilisation immunity from forward momentum, it's because swift makes it too OP, we were totally fine with momentum before swift, pls ZOS let the combat team take a note of this.
NERF SWIFT.
Swift is going to be nerfed and apparently, so is Major Expedition (enjoy your riding simulator in Cyrodiil).
But even if they nerf Swift by 50% and put Major Expedition at 25% instead of 30%, you are still looking at 40% speed increase that you won't be able to counter thanks to Forward Momentum.
If FM stays the way it is, only removing Swift from the game (or from PvP) can make a small difference but now that people got a taste of speed power, the speed meta will simply remain.
People were mostly running Rally, this is why FM was not that big of an issue before Summerset.
Now that they found out the real power of a full immunity, they won't let go of FM and again, the speed meta will remain.
But I guess I don't care, as long as any further nerf to speed is kept out of PvE.
Huh? Ever since they restricted shuffle use to 5 medium most heavy builds opted for FM. And if some voices in this thread hold true, most of the non-NB stam specs run heavy. So I think FM is nothing that was overlooked until Summerset. It simply moved in the focus due to the addition of swift.
But here we are again, at the typical addition-nerf-cycle this game operates. Things were fine until a certain addition was made (swift in this case), now suddenly a combination of things is deemed OP (swift + major expedition + FM) and everything will get touched. Although it's fairly obvious that neither major expedition nor FM was an issue per se (if we ignore the comparison between shuffle and FM for the sake of the argument).
If the targeting can't keep up with the new speed meta that was introduced via swift, they should either improve their targeting mechanism or, as another bandaid fix, nerf swift. But nerfing everything will just *** over those who don't use swift in the first place. Same thing as with the overpowering of defile back then, it didn't only affected healbots but everyone with ordinary healing as well.
Reducing movement speed buffs (mE) and, if they decide to, nerfing snare counters will only result in people feeling even more forced to run swift. And how much will you need to nerf all that to get a decent targeting? I can only speak for myself but it's no fun getting zerg-snared and moving at snail speed.
Also, FM is the counter to snares and roots, not the other way around. Try running without snare immunity and see how that works out. Or ask anyone who plays a magbuild, they will sing you a song of it. So no reason for a counter of a counter.
tl;dr: nerf swift but not major ExpeditionEdited by Chilly-McFreeze on September 26, 2018 8:13AM0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerf Swift. It's overperforming. Single target abilities are not really hitting people using Swift.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel2 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy4 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.
And I always thought FM/shuffle is the counter to snares...0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.
And I always thought FM/shuffle is the counter to snares...
In its pre-swift/pre-nerfed snares era it was. Things have changed now, obviously. Snares are not only heavily nerfed in duration but also softcountered by Swift. The combination of a hardcounter (FM) with 2x the duration of any snare + softcounter with permanent uptime (Swift) is making snares/immobilizes worthless against a vast majority of stamina setups.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.
And I always thought FM/shuffle is the counter to snares...
In its pre-swift/pre-nerfed snares era it was. Things have changed now, obviously. Snares are not only heavily nerfed in duration but also softcountered by Swift. The combination of a hardcounter (FM) with 2x the duration of any snare + softcounter with permanent uptime (Swift) is making snares/immobilizes worthless against a vast majority of stamina setups.
What will happen when ZOS reduces major Expedition and, should they decide to, nerf snare immunity skills? I think it will purely annoy people to the point where they feel forced to run swift, to be somewhat mobile against perma-snaring, chasing zergs and in general.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.
And I always thought FM/shuffle is the counter to snares...
In its pre-swift/pre-nerfed snares era it was. Things have changed now, obviously. Snares are not only heavily nerfed in duration but also softcountered by Swift. The combination of a hardcounter (FM) with 2x the duration of any snare + softcounter with permanent uptime (Swift) is making snares/immobilizes worthless against a vast majority of stamina setups.
What will happen when ZOS reduces major Expedition and, should they decide to, nerf snare immunity skills? I think it will purely annoy people to the point where they feel forced to run swift, to be somewhat mobile against perma-snaring, chasing zergs and in general.
Well, they shouldn't do both. We need finetuning. There's a difference in performance of Swift inbetween the two spectrums of any class (stam & mag) due to the easy stamina access to snare immunity with very little tradeoff (compared to magicka). A well implemented balancing attempt would take that into account.
Focusing on FM (without flat nerfs to base speed/major exp/swift) would be an elegant way to guarantee that those who benefit most get hit hardest and also have the positive side-effect of narrowing the gap between HA and MA. Stamina builds would still be superfast (if they want to), but it would create counter-windows for the opposition and result in less uptime of max speed. I think that's a desirable form of interaction and matches the original idea of counter-ability that is ingrained into any good PvP game.
There are different ways to target the issue, lots of smart suggestions have been made - i.e. splitting swift into +5% base speed/+5% running speed.
Sadly, ZOS has chosen again to go the lazy (and uninformed way) of flatout nerfing speed for everyone. It won't create counterplay, it won't change that stamina builds have 100% uptime of snare/immobilize immunity. We both probably want similar things - to keep at least optional windows of the current max speed while nerfing the outliers.Edited by Mojomonkeyman on September 26, 2018 9:18AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy4 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.
This.
And wtf would they nerf major expedition, that only empowers ranged combat even more and specially zergy tryhardy groups who only run ranged builds.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think they shouldn't nerf Swift but it shouldn't stack with other Swift jewelry traits.Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.
I don't know, fighting a mag build (with Wings, Purge or Mist Form) who uses speedpots and Swift should be really disgusting as well. Imo speedpots are a bigger problem than Swift to be honest.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Nerf Swift. It's overperforming. Single target abilities are not really hitting people using Swift.
Huh; I don’t have trouble landing single target abilities on people with swift. Again it’s a huge problem targeting people running in huge zergs.. which some in this thread do *grin*.
As for forward momentum; if they nerf it you know what’s going to happen... stamblades are going to be even more overpowered cause guess what they generally run and will be able to get away with compared to other classes.
I foresee a cascade of nerfs that end up nerfing everyone but that class to honest.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭I feel it's there ability to process thoughts faster that people have trouble with.
Besides that I agree with the OP, and it doesn't need adjusting or a nerf.1 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I think they shouldn't nerf Swift but it shouldn't stack with other Swift jewelry traits.Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.
I don't know, fighting a mag build (with Wings, Purge or Mist Form) who uses speedpots and Swift should be really disgusting as well. Imo speedpots are a bigger problem than Swift to be honest.
Wings & Purge provide no immunity and cost vastly more than FM. Mist Form disables the ability to attack (opposed to FM which was a huge enabler for the rise of spin-to-win) and regenerate main ressource. Magicka swift builds will always be worse than Stamina swift builds simply because of how powerful and free of restrictions FM is. I elaborated on that for a while some posts back.
I like how you chose to apply the wording "should be". That's the point, almost every single HA stambuild these days is walking at 140%-170% with permanent snare immunity. How many non-duel HA Rally builds do you see? How many magicka builds with permanent uptime of snare immunity (defensively AND offensively) do you meet? I don't see many of those, simply because the only way to achieve offensive snare immunity is, again, FM and to lesser extend Shuffle.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy1 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Nerf Swift. It's overperforming. Single target abilities are not really hitting people using Swift.
Huh; I don’t have trouble landing single target abilities on people with swift. Again it’s a huge problem targeting people running in huge zergs.. which some in this thread do *grin*.
As for forward momentum; if they nerf it you know what’s going to happen... stamblades are going to be even more overpowered cause guess what they generally run and will be able to get away with compared to other classes.
I foresee a cascade of nerfs that end up nerfing everyone but that class to honest.
Zerging and single targets not landing due to Swift has nothing to do with it. Now, if damage was done as soon as the button was pressed, it would not be a trouble. Nice try at flaming though. Still 1/10 for effort.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel1 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Snares: there are a multitude of them and they are all stackable. In theory, one can immobilize completely someone just by stacking snares*.So snares counters are a necessity.
Snare counters:
1. Rapid Maneuvers and morphs: both grant snare, root Immunity and Major Expedition. Cannot cast any spells .Retreating morph also removes any previously applied. Cost: 8100 stamina
2. Shuffle: removes and grants Immunity to snares for up to 3.5 secs. Grants Major Evasion. Requires 5 pieces of Medium Armor equipped. Cost: 4320 stamina
3. Mist Form: removes and grants Immunity to roots and all disabling effects for 4 secs. Takes 75% less damage. Elusive morph also grants Major Expedition. Can't regen Magika nor be healed, nor sprint nor do anything while in Form. Requires Vampirism. Cost: 5670 magika
4. Forward Momentum: Removes snares and roots and grants Immunity to them for 8 secs. Also grants Major Brutality and heal you for 119 every 2 secs. Requires 2 handed equipped. Cost: 2971 stamina
5. Reflecting Plate: removes snares on activation. Reflect up to 4 projectiles over 6 secs. Requires DK. Cost: 3510 magika
6. Purge: removes 2 negative effects and reduces the duration of any further negative effects by 50% for 6 seconds. Not snare specific, so RNG dependent. Cost: 8100/5130 (morh) magika
7. Cleansing Ritual: like Purge, RNG dependent, removes from 2 to 5 harmful effect (depending on morph) heals and deals damage in AoE (depending on morph) and grants synergy. Requires Templar. Cost: 4320 magika
8. Icy Aura passive, rank II: reduce the effectiveness of snares by 15%. Requires Warden. No cost.
There are also a number of sets that can be used as snare counters, although none grants removal (except purge ones, bit RNG dependent) and/or immunity.
- Light Armor:
1. Curse Eater: reduces the duration of all negative effects applied to you by 20%.
2. Robes of the Hist: While you are affected by a disabling effect, immobilization, or snare, you heal for 2500 Health every 1 second.
3. Stendarr's Embrace: When you heal a friendly target, you have a 50% chance to remove 5 negative effects from them. This can happen no more than once every 30 seconds.
- Medium Armor:
1. Barkskin: Reduces the duration of immobilizations and snares on you by 50%. When an immobilization or snare is applied to you, heal for 2000 Health and restore 1000 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
3. Ranger's gait: Reduce the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 50%.
- Heavy Armor:
Wyrd Tree's blessing:: Casting a spell has a 100% chance to remove 5 negative effect, this can occur every 15 seconds.
Is there anything in this list that stands out for:
- longer duration +
- lower cost +
- lower drawbacks +
- full (uncapped in number) removal + total (uncapped in number) immunity
?
edit: typos and corrections
*corrected, thanks @BlackMadaraEdited by Arciris on September 27, 2018 12:34AM1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I think they shouldn't nerf Swift but it shouldn't stack with other Swift jewelry traits.Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.
I don't know, fighting a mag build (with Wings, Purge or Mist Form) who uses speedpots and Swift should be really disgusting as well. Imo speedpots are a bigger problem than Swift to be honest.
Wings & Purge provide no immunity and cost vastly more than FM. Mist Form disables the ability to attack (opposed to FM which was a huge enabler for the rise of spin-to-win) and regenerate main ressource. Magicka swift builds will always be worse than Stamina swift builds simply because of how powerful and free of restrictions FM is. I elaborated on that for a while some posts back.
I like how you chose to apply the wording "should be". That's the point, almost every single HA stambuild these days is walking at 140%-170% with permanent snare immunity. How many non-duel HA Rally builds do you see? How many magicka builds with permanent uptime of snare immunity (defensively AND offensively) do you meet? I don't see many of those, simply because the only way to achieve offensive snare immunity is, again, FM and to lesser extend Shuffle.
On heavy armor stamina is better than magicka, that's correct. But building for speed on a light armor build, especially with the PTS changes in mind, might become very strong as well.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
Agreed, but please ask them to see if they could cap player speed in Battle Spirit so as not to get the PvE players on our case again.
No need to nerf other abilities then.
Edited by TequilaFire on September 26, 2018 12:30PM0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Snares: there are a multitude of them and they are all stackable. In theory, one can immobilize completely someone just by stacking snares.So snares counters are a necessity.
Snare counters:
1. Rapid Maneuvers and morphs: both grant snare, root Immunity and Major Expedition. Cannot cast any spells .Retreating morph also removes any previously applied. Cost: 8100 stamina
2. Shuffle: removes and grants Immunity to snares for up to 3.5 secs. Grants Major Evasion. Requires 5 pieces of Medium Armor equipped. Cost: 4320 stamina
3. Mist Form: removes and grants Immunity to roots and all disabling effects for 4 secs. Takes 75% less damage. Elusive morph also grants Major Expedition. Can't regen Magika nor be healed, nor sprint nor do anything while in Form. Requires Vampirism. Cost: 5670 magika
4. Forward Momentum: Removes snares and roots and grants Immunity to them for 8 secs. Also grants Major Brutality and heal you for 119 every 2 secs. Requires 2 handed equipped. Cost: 2971 stamina
5. Reflecting Plate: removes snares on activation. Reflect up to 4 projectiles over 6 secs. Requires DK. Cost: 3510 magika
6. Purge: removes 2 negative effects and reduces the duration of any further negative effects by 50% for 6 seconds. Not snare specific, so RNG dependent. Cost: 8100/5130 (morh) magika
7. Cleansing Ritual: like Purge, RNG dependent, removes from 2 to 5 harmful effect (depending on morph) heals and deals damage in AoE (depending on morph) and grants synergy. Requires Templar. Cost: 4320 magika
8. Icy Aura passive, rank II: reduce the effectiveness of snares by 15%. Requires Warden. No cost.
There are also a number of sets that can be used as snare counters, although none grants removal and/or immunity.
- Light Armor:
1. Curse Eater: reduces the duration of all negative effects applied to you by 20%.
2. Robes of the Hist: While you are affected by a disabling effect, immobilization, or snare, you heal for 2500 Health every 1 second.
- Medium Armor:
1. Barkskin: Reduces the duration of immobilizations and snares on you by 50%. When an immobilization or snare is applied to you, heal for 2000 Health and restore 1000 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.
2. Ranger's gait: Reduce the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 50%.
- Heavy Armor:
MIA
Is there anything in this list that stands out for:
- longer duration +
- lower cost +
- lower drawbacks +
- full (uncapped in number) removal + total (uncapped in number) immunity
?
edit: typos
Wyrd Tree is heavy armor and functions like purify.1 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭@templesus
Good call, thank you! And now that I think about it, there's also a "purge" LA.
Will update the postEdited by Arciris on September 26, 2018 4:27PM0 -
The_Last_Titan✭✭✭In combat speed reduction? lower cap maybe. would slow people up a bit in fights but not hurt running from keep to keep and questing etc
not enough where 10 slow people chasing 1 slow person and a guy runs up out of combat at twice their speed but a little slower
Edited by The_Last_Titan on September 26, 2018 5:47PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
And again, they are going for the flat nerf instead of separating between stamina & magicka toolsets - forward momentum paired with swift is the problem since it eliminates all possible counters.
They should buff LA passives again to compensate if do this. 50% snare reduction on 5 light and lower sprint cost a bit but add speed so LA can recoup the loss on swift nerfs.
Either way whatever. We keep joking that zos doesn't support non-zerg scenarios because they don't care but its looking like the truth is because everyone loves zerging so much they will do anything to buff it because it makes them more money in the end lol. Zerg players will pay for crowns if they can devour, more elite pvp players will avoid purchasing and thus take nerfs lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
MaselClass RepresentativeSwift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
Thank you so much for your answer
I'm sad to see that they are looking at the wrong end of the problem, as a single 70% snare negates both 3x Swift + Major Expedition.
But there is nothing that negates Forward Momentum. There is no possible counter to FW. It is FM that allows super un-negated, un-conterable speed.
So I guess LA and Heavy specs will remain slow as snails.
Can you please push for those changes (whatever they are planning) to be introduced via Battle Spirit?
If any nerf is going to happen, it needs to stay out of PvE.
Thanks again
They're also gonna looka t forward momentum.PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Forward momentum was perfectly fine before the swift trait was introduced.
LEAVE FM ALONE.
There were and still are too many farking roots and snares in this game. Can't beat them with skill? Root and snare them to death.
If the intro of the swift trait was too much then change the damn swift trait.
Honestly if the guy wants to play marathon simulator and run away, fine. I'd rather continue on my way to fight his buds at the keep.
Sorry pve farmers, WE (I farm too) did fine farming before swift, we will continue to do fine if it's reduced. There are plenty of other farming sets to use.
Can't beat roots/snares with skill. Press one button to ignore it all. Ah yes this is much better because it screws over them, not me. Because that is how balance works... /s
The fact still is no one complained about forward momentum until swift was a thing.
NO ONE
So now swift a thing and FM is the problem?
No, swift is the problem as stated
"The targeting can't keep up because the speed is too much"
Has nothing to do with FM.
Bull *** mate. FM was complained about for a long time. I even use it on my MDK because its so strong. No swift. Complete cheap immunity to snares and control is OP. Swift just makes it worse.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.3 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Forward momentum was perfectly fine before the swift trait was introduced.
LEAVE FM ALONE.
There were and still are too many farking roots and snares in this game. Can't beat them with skill? Root and snare them to death.
If the intro of the swift trait was too much then change the damn swift trait.
Honestly if the guy wants to play marathon simulator and run away, fine. I'd rather continue on my way to fight his buds at the keep.
Sorry pve farmers, WE (I farm too) did fine farming before swift, we will continue to do fine if it's reduced. There are plenty of other farming sets to use.
Can't beat roots/snares with skill. Press one button to ignore it all. Ah yes this is much better because it screws over them, not me. Because that is how balance works... /s
The fact still is no one complained about forward momentum until swift was a thing.
NO ONE
So now swift a thing and FM is the problem?
No, swift is the problem as stated
"The targeting can't keep up because the speed is too much"
Has nothing to do with FM.
Bull *** mate. FM was complained about for a long time. I even use it on my MDK because its so strong. No swift. Complete cheap immunity to snares and control is OP. Swift just makes it worse.
Was it? I don't remember seeing many "nerf FM" posts. Instead I read a lot of "finally HA builds can't use Rally anymore, 'cuz that combo is OP" comments after the shuffle lock. I also remember every magspec asking for a snare removal tool and endless complains about perma-snaring. We will just come full circle again.0 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.
The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).
With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .
Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.
Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.
Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.
Edit for typos
They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...
Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.
Thank you so much for your answer
I'm sad to see that they are looking at the wrong end of the problem, as a single 70% snare negates both 3x Swift + Major Expedition.
But there is nothing that negates Forward Momentum. There is no possible counter to FW. It is FM that allows super un-negated, un-conterable speed.
So I guess LA and Heavy specs will remain slow as snails.
Can you please push for those changes (whatever they are planning) to be introduced via Battle Spirit?
If any nerf is going to happen, it needs to stay out of PvE.
Thanks again
They're also gonna looka t forward momentum.
Thank you again for the news @Masel92
Can you please also make sure that this targeting issue is not due to other reasons? For example players confusing it with Major Evasion (soon RIP), or even high latency?
On October 16th I will be celebrating my 5th anniversary playing ESO and I've never heard of any issue targeting a player due to his speed (not talking about hacks)
If that was true, Cyrodiil would be Werewolf land by now, as they've always had an innate 3x gold Swift permanent bonus (of course WW doesn't have snare removal or immunity, so snares were always a WW's bane)
Or, even worse, everyone would be sprinting around as they couldn't be targeted while sprinting. (Swift + Major Expedition puts you at 60% base speed but an Orc MA sprinting is close to 100% even when not built for it, just needs a speed pot).
Not to mention that for many years, there wasn't even a speed cap, so players could reach 140%, 150% in sprint and still be "targetable".
Anyway, please don't forget to please, please push for a possible change to speed, if any, to be kept out of PvE lands
Thanks again.
Edit: now that I think about it, people have been reporting targeting issues on perfectly static Target Dummies , thinking about Templar Jabs or Empowering Sweep not connecting for example, so can it be that players are perceiving Speed as being an issue while the problem lies entirely elsewhere?
Summoning @Joy_Division here as you may have some insight about it?Edited by Arciris on September 26, 2018 9:01PM0 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭I keep seeing people say that snares are stackable? When was this changed? To my knowledge, only the strongest snare is applied at a time. E.g. if you have a 15% snare on you and a 30% snare is applied, you are snared by 30%.1