SWIFT DOES NOT NEED A NERF!

Ender1310 · September 2018

With shield nerf this may get mag users out of the max stat meta. Better sustain for both resource pools would allow the use of a stam snare removal. I think zos should focus on baking snare immunity into a world skill or guild skill line that is accessible for all players.
Nothing wrong with forcing mag users to diversify their resource pool as like stam does currently. Adding a viable defensive alternative to derp stack magic hit shield damage and defense derp would allow balance changes to stam abilities.

leepalmer95 · September 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

I don't see what the big deal with swift is... If it is so good then use it too.

Anyone can make or retrait jewelry.

No they can't it requires you to buy an expansion.

It's entirely a p2w feature.

Buying an MMO expansion is not P2W. Not even close.

Do i have an advantage if i have the expansion over someone else who does not have the expansion?
Yes.

Therefore p2w.

By that thought every new bis set will be p2w when they don't come as boe. And you couldn't add anything worthwhile to new expansions ever.

Thats the problem with they intentionally bring is stronger sets to sell dlc, which they always do. It's still p2w.

Bis gear requires multiple dlcs and if you don't have them you simply can't compete.

kojou · September 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

I don't see what the big deal with swift is... If it is so good then use it too.

Anyone can make or retrait jewelry.

No they can't it requires you to buy an expansion.

It's entirely a p2w feature.

Someone could craft swift jewelry and give it to a player who doesn't have it...

That would be generous considering its very expensive.

But now what if i use 2x dropped sets which a lot of people do for pvp? Bone/7th Rav/bone etc..?

With enough gold involved I'm sure it could happen...

If the trait is that good I'm sure substituting 7th for Hundings would be worth it to get it.

If running 7th without swift is better than running Hundings with swift then I would argue whether it's a pretty balanced choice or perhaps 7th is what needs a nerf.

leepalmer95 · September 2018

kojou wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

I don't see what the big deal with swift is... If it is so good then use it too.

Anyone can make or retrait jewelry.

No they can't it requires you to buy an expansion.

It's entirely a p2w feature.

Someone could craft swift jewelry and give it to a player who doesn't have it...

That would be generous considering its very expensive.

But now what if i use 2x dropped sets which a lot of people do for pvp? Bone/7th Rav/bone etc..?

With enough gold involved I'm sure it could happen...

If the trait is that good I'm sure substituting 7th for Hundings would be worth it to get it.

If running 7th without swift is better than running Hundings with swift then I would argue that it's a pretty balanced choice or 7th needs a nerf.

So your answer is to run a worse setup in order to include the trait?

That by definition is saying its OP and p2w. Changing your setup to use a worse one just to include the p2w trait.

But either way i'd still be at a disadvantage over someone who bought the expansion.

And yes swift for me is pretty much mandatory on every build now. It's too strong not to use.

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2018

Minno wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Place diminishing returns on swift. 1x swift = 10% base, 2x swift = 10% base + 6% base, 3x swift = 10% base + 6% base + 3% base.

Also, reduce the snare immunity on forward momentum to 4 seconds, increase the snare immunity on shuffle to 7 seconds.

This is what needs to be done.

It does, in that you only have 100% movement speed capped and a cheap snare matching 3 gold swift on one ability.

Problem is entirely the cheap snare immunity off the 2h. Mist form is fine because its a channel and locks your mag regen so it's balanced. It needs to be reduced to 2 seconds and be more expensive than rally (in fact the costs should be swapped).

The other change is to make it lock your stam regen for the immunity duration but buff the HOT (similar to mist form, except not be a channel).

What? I have a hard time understanding what you mean with "the other change".

Do you mean fm should lock you out of Regen for 8 seconds with no possibility to end that early (like mist has options to cancel)? Don't you think that 4 lost Regen ticks without that option is a bit harsh? That can easily raise the the costs by 4-8k (or whatever your regen ticks for) + base costs.

Minno · September 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Place diminishing returns on swift. 1x swift = 10% base, 2x swift = 10% base + 6% base, 3x swift = 10% base + 6% base + 3% base.

Also, reduce the snare immunity on forward momentum to 4 seconds, increase the snare immunity on shuffle to 7 seconds.

This is what needs to be done.

It does, in that you only have 100% movement speed capped and a cheap snare matching 3 gold swift on one ability.

Problem is entirely the cheap snare immunity off the 2h. Mist form is fine because its a channel and locks your mag regen so it's balanced. It needs to be reduced to 2 seconds and be more expensive than rally (in fact the costs should be swapped).

The other change is to make it lock your stam regen for the immunity duration but buff the HOT (similar to mist form, except not be a channel).

What? I have a hard time understanding what you mean with "the other change".

Do you mean fm should lock you out of Regen for 8 seconds with no possibility to end that early (like mist has options to cancel)? Don't you think that 4 lost Regen ticks without that option is a bit harsh? That can easily raise the the costs by 4-8k (or whatever your regen ticks for) + base costs.

That's why I said buff the HOT while it's active. You can also add dmg buffs to compensate. IDK what amount would be fair, but mechanically that could feel better since it will promote a "beserker" playstyle instead of "let me keep up this buff so I can run around with minimal downsides". Besides, it's not like a stamina pot would be immune to this or other burst sustain.

Everything doesn't have to work exactly like another spell/skill in a separate line.

ak_pvp · September 2018

Its a combo of FM/Shuffle and swift. People are so fast they can't be targetted, nor kept in place. The one counter that should work for fast builds simply doesn't. It instead hits the slower ones more.

No more preemptive immunities. Snares should be major and minor. 30/10%. They should be multiplicative, so they effect faster builds more. Put them on less abilities. Shuffle/FM/Wings should only remove snares/roots and grant a 50% reduction to snares for like 10s, so you can counter them without completely ignoring them. Removing roots in any way aside from time should grant a 3/4s immunity. But no preemptive ones.

Tadaa: Less terrible for slower builds, but fairly counters the fast ones.

TimeDazzler · September 2018

Shuffle 3.8k stamina, requires 5 medium, removes snares for 3 seconds.
Wings 3.5k magicka, dragonknight only, removes snares for 2 seconds.
Forward momentum 2.6k stamina, anyone with 2H, removes snares for 8 seconds.

Do you not see the issue? How is that balanced? I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Either increase shuffle to 5 seconds immunity or bring down forward momentum to 5 seconds and increase cost. Also, increase wings to 3 seconds of immunity, and add snare removal but not immunity to streak and morphs.

As for the OP, I agree that swift itself is not overperforming it's when you combine it with forward momentum. It is, however, very strong as the 1.6k stamina or 2.4k stamina you give up for it does not change your damage at all. It's almost like you're getting 20-30% movement speed for free.

Ragnarock41 · September 2018

Xeniph wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

This is a stupid request

I'm a solo player that doesn't use swift on any of my toons and I have no issues with it. I have yet to have any amount of swift kill me.

If it bothers anyone maybe stop chasing people.

Now Forward Momentum is a whole other ball of wax. I do feel this ability is over the top. It's great when your build can utilize it, but you really feel the loss if you have to use Rally and rely on the wopping 3 second immunity from Shuffle.

Instead of nerfing it though, I'd rather see a buff to the other immunity abilities.

Swift doesn't kill you it makes other people impossible to hit or actually chase.

Maybe stop chasing?

Oh yeah, totally stand there my dude, real men never runs from a duel anyways!

let that stamsorc run away everytime he loses the fight to spam DD in a corner like the ''kitten'' he is,. Just sit in the middle of an open field naked invite people to a fist fight while at it. I'm sure you will be really successful my dude. Great vision there.

Katahdin · September 2018

Forward momentum was perfectly fine before the swift trait was introduced.
LEAVE FM ALONE.

There were and still are too many farking roots and snares in this game. Can't beat them with skill? Root and snare them to death.

If the intro of the swift trait was too much then change the damn swift trait.

Honestly if the guy wants to play marathon simulator and run away, fine. I'd rather continue on my way to fight his buds at the keep.

Sorry pve farmers, WE (I farm too) did fine farming before swift, we will continue to do fine if it's reduced. There are plenty of other farming sets to use.

ak_pvp · September 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

Forward momentum was perfectly fine before the swift trait was introduced.
LEAVE FM ALONE.

There were and still are too many farking roots and snares in this game. Can't beat them with skill? Root and snare them to death.

If the intro of the swift trait was too much then change the damn swift trait.

Honestly if the guy wants to play marathon simulator and run away, fine. I'd rather continue on my way to fight his buds at the keep.

Sorry pve farmers, WE (I farm too) did fine farming before swift, we will continue to do fine if it's reduced. There are plenty of other farming sets to use.

Can't beat roots/snares with skill. Press one button to ignore it all. Ah yes this is much better because it screws over them, not me. Because that is how balance works... /s

brandonv516 · September 2018

Just don't take away my Swift Jewelry Surfing:

https://youtu.be/FxMuv9iYLAM

Xvorg · September 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I agree with the OP. Swift is fine because EVERYBODY has access to it.

Forward Momentum, on the other hand allows SOME builds to dish out annoying snares and roots while being completely immune to snares and roots themselves. That's not fair!

Everybody?

I thought you had to buy Summerset first

Katahdin · September 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Forward momentum was perfectly fine before the swift trait was introduced.
LEAVE FM ALONE.

There were and still are too many farking roots and snares in this game. Can't beat them with skill? Root and snare them to death.

If the intro of the swift trait was too much then change the damn swift trait.

Honestly if the guy wants to play marathon simulator and run away, fine. I'd rather continue on my way to fight his buds at the keep.

Sorry pve farmers, WE (I farm too) did fine farming before swift, we will continue to do fine if it's reduced. There are plenty of other farming sets to use.

Can't beat roots/snares with skill. Press one button to ignore it all. Ah yes this is much better because it screws over them, not me. Because that is how balance works... /s

The fact still is no one complained about forward momentum until swift was a thing.

NO ONE

So now swift a thing and FM is the problem?

No, swift is the problem as stated
"The targeting can't keep up because the speed is too much"

Has nothing to do with FM.

TimeDazzler · September 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Forward momentum was perfectly fine before the swift trait was introduced.
LEAVE FM ALONE.

There were and still are too many farking roots and snares in this game. Can't beat them with skill? Root and snare them to death.

If the intro of the swift trait was too much then change the damn swift trait.

Honestly if the guy wants to play marathon simulator and run away, fine. I'd rather continue on my way to fight his buds at the keep.

Sorry pve farmers, WE (I farm too) did fine farming before swift, we will continue to do fine if it's reduced. There are plenty of other farming sets to use.

Can't beat roots/snares with skill. Press one button to ignore it all. Ah yes this is much better because it screws over them, not me. Because that is how balance works... /s

The fact still is no one complained about forward momentum until swift was a thing.

NO ONE

So now swift a thing and FM is the problem?

No, swift is the problem as stated
"The targeting can't keep up because the speed is too much"

No one? Did you do a forum search before spewing that BS. People have been complaining about FM since Morrowind. It's a combination of swift + FM, not swift itself.

templesus · September 2018

I’ve personally never been killed by anyone running Swift, most people I’ve seen on PS4 NA running it are average players at best. It doesn’t bother me I can’t kill them because I just equate them to tanks or healers, playing a style(run away lmao) so that you don’t die like the 40k hp zerglings or the perma-cloaking stamblades try to do.

I wouldn’t say swift is OP. Maybe if the top tier players start using it and it gets outta hand we’ll talk, but til then I say leave it as is. Atleast magplars/magdks have mobility for once.

I don’t see how any 1vXer can think swift is that good. You’re going to get zerged down regardless, 30% extra movement speed won’t make up for the ulti-dumps when getting Xv1ed. You trade off better damage/healing/survivability for speed. Balanced imo.

Valrien · September 2018

Zoal_AUG wrote: »

I dont think they will nerf it its a escape ability of classes without escape skills. and heavy armor users. Its just sorcs who cry about their stupid shields who are whining to nerf everything and everyone cuz aparenty shiel nerf also nerfed their brain capabilities.

Oh hey, you're that troll that posted the poll in general.

Escapes are not immune to nerfs. Just look at Bolt Escape

SugaComa · September 2018

You're kidding right ?

It definitely needs a NERF

Minno · September 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Just don't take away my Swift Jewelry Surfing:

https://youtu.be/FxMuv9iYLAM

LOL Amazing.

Though I didn't see how OP swift was in killing players in that vid since you survived

Malamar1229 · September 2018

I run swift on live on my magicka sorc. the mobility is awesome but comes at a huge dmg/shield size loss.

can we the say the same about stam? the issue here is the dmg loss running 3x swift on stam isn't even close to the "hurt" on a magicka class.

Minno · September 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I run swift on live on my magicka sorc. the mobility is awesome but comes at a huge dmg/shield size loss.

can we the say the same about stam? the issue here is the dmg loss running 3x swift on stam isn't even close to the "hurt" on a magicka class.

This. Unless of course ZOS decided to gift us some mag 7th legion/ravaging lol.

Mag bone pirate will help next patch. If you run 3x swift, definitely give it a go, especially with the tri-food drink.

Lylith · September 2018

TiZzA93 wrote: »

Also i created the thread and my 4 pvp toons are stamsORC, stamplar, magden and magplar so i use 1 swift on the sorc and i personally LOL as i run rings around ppl till they die WHILST being fully immune to snares and immobile

and being untargetable.

win/win.

combined with cloak, it's even more amusing.

Zavijah · September 2018

Swift does not need to be changed. Everyone has access to it. Equal opportunity.

Xsorus · September 2018

I'm dying here laughing about people saying you can't target someone running Swift.

you can easily target people with Swift

Again...the only time I have trouble targeting someone is when they're standing in a 24 man zerg....That's hard to target..

Also if everyone is running swift like some are stating; then everyone is running at near the same speed..thus Swift is negated....

Qbiken · September 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Forward momentum was perfectly fine before the swift trait was introduced.
LEAVE FM ALONE.

There were and still are too many farking roots and snares in this game. Can't beat them with skill? Root and snare them to death.

If the intro of the swift trait was too much then change the damn swift trait.

Honestly if the guy wants to play marathon simulator and run away, fine. I'd rather continue on my way to fight his buds at the keep.

Sorry pve farmers, WE (I farm too) did fine farming before swift, we will continue to do fine if it's reduced. There are plenty of other farming sets to use.

Can't beat roots/snares with skill. Press one button to ignore it all. Ah yes this is much better because it screws over them, not me. Because that is how balance works... /s

Why press a button when I can equip a few swift traits. No need to press buttons anymore

Sharee · September 2018

IDK about swift, but general movement speed in PvP needs a nerf.

Example: I have a guy targeted. He starts running away from me in a straight line. I use stampede. I should have gap closed to him, hit him with crit stampede damage, and snared him, right?

Nope. Stampede does not move me to HIM, but instead to the spot he was standing AT when i pressed the stampede button. But by the time the stampede animation completes, he is already 10m away from the spot(because of his movement speed), and my attack does not touch him(out of range). Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. I can waste an entire stamina bar doing absolutely nothing to him.

This was why gap closers originally applied a root (later a snare). Now they don't, speed went through the roof, and we ended up with this BS where abilities cannot perform their intended function. IMHO, all speed boosts(not base) need to be halved by battle spirit in PvP areas.

Xsorus · September 2018

Sharee wrote: »

IDK about swift, but general movement speed in PvP needs a nerf.

Example: I have a guy targeted. He starts running away from me in a straight line. I use stampede. I should have gap closed to him, hit him with crit stampede damage, and snared him, right?

Nope. Stampede does not move me to HIM, but instead to the spot he was standing AT when i pressed the stampede button. But by the time the stampede animation completes, he is already 10m away from the spot(because of his movement speed), and my attack does not touch him(out of range). Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. I can waste an entire stamina bar doing absolutely nothing to him.

This was why gap closers originally applied a root (later a snare). Now they don't, speed went through the roof, and we ended up with this BS where abilities cannot perform their intended function. IMHO, all speed boosts(not base) need to be halved by battle spirit in PvP areas.

This has nothing to do with Swift (it worked this way even before swift)

This has to do with the moronic change ZOS put in because people whined.

most Gap closers in general are absolute ass vs anyone who's moving period....doesn't matter what the speed is..

Ive stopped running gap closer on a lot of classes just for that reason.

Sharee · September 2018

Xsorus wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

IDK about swift, but general movement speed in PvP needs a nerf.

Example: I have a guy targeted. He starts running away from me in a straight line. I use stampede. I should have gap closed to him, hit him with crit stampede damage, and snared him, right?

Nope. Stampede does not move me to HIM, but instead to the spot he was standing AT when i pressed the stampede button. But by the time the stampede animation completes, he is already 10m away from the spot(because of his movement speed), and my attack does not touch him(out of range). Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. I can waste an entire stamina bar doing absolutely nothing to him.

This was why gap closers originally applied a root (later a snare). Now they don't, speed went through the roof, and we ended up with this BS where abilities cannot perform their intended function. IMHO, all speed boosts(not base) need to be halved by battle spirit in PvP areas.

This has nothing to do with Swift (it worked this way even before swift)

This has to do with the moronic change ZOS put in because people whined.

most Gap closers in general are absolute ass vs anyone who's moving period....doesn't matter what the speed is..

Ive stopped running gap closer on a lot of classes just for that reason.

It does matter what the speed is. Its true it can happen even without swift, but the faster someone moves, the worse it gets.

leepalmer95 · September 2018

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm dying here laughing about people saying you can't target someone running Swift.

you can easily target people with Swift

Again...the only time I have trouble targeting someone is when they're standing in a 24 man zerg....That's hard to target..

Also if everyone is running swift like some are stating; then everyone is running at near the same speed..thus Swift is negated....

No, there are people without the dlc.

There are people who don't really know the strength of swift.

Literally every good pvpers in know on my server runs swift, even on magicka builds.

Masel · September 2018

Arciris wrote: »

Swift was most likely designed as a soft snare mitigation tool in response of the many PvP complaints about the huge amount of stackable snares that made combat feel really sluggish.

The issue is that Forward Momentum grants a long full snare and root immunity, rather than a mitigation (say 50% reduction on snare effectiveness and duration as well as a root removal and 2 sec immunity to root would be better).

With the current Forward Momentum + Immovable Speed pots people are already super fast and unstoppable .

Swift is only the tip of the Iceberg meaning it's a tiny part but it is also the only thing that myopic minds are able to see.

Meanwhile Swift introduced a lot of fresh air in PvE and ruining PvErs experience just because of a misinterpretation of an issue is simply really sad.

Please also take PvErs concerns about an unwanted Swift nerf to the Dev team @ZOS_GinaBruno . Thank you.

Edit for typos

They hinted at us in the meeting yesterday that they will adjust swift and even possibly major expedition to reduce the speed in pvp...

Problem is that if you fight players that have both 3 swift and major expedition, it's almost impossible to hit them with single target abilities. That's why steel tornado is so dominant as an execute at the moment, because it HITS, instead of reverse slice for example which is often impossible to hit.