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SWIFT DOES NOT NEED A NERF!
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
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Agree.Why not just nerf everything that other people use in PVP just because you cant kill them. You are ruining more than just your PVP you are ruining PVE too, and ZOS stupidly listens to this small minority of PVP plebians and screws over everyone. GJ
Well we are taking about swift. If you use swift in PvE you are doing something wrong. And according to ZOS most of the nerfs are due to PvP AND PvE.
Using it for casual PvE, solo questing etc, and ofc its mainly PVP, this forum is full of them crying about something or other, because they think they are killing gods, when in actual fact, they are not skilled enough, hence why they keep dying. Instead of getting better and moving on, they just call for nerfs which effects everyone.
Well I can partly agree on that. There are tons of whiny PvPers who are just bad and instead of getting better they come to cry on the forums and ask for nerfs (usually nerf sorc threads since sorc is the ultimate noob killing class).
The problem is that combat is not balanced. There are many issues out there and ZOS is not able to balance things out properly. And these imbalance issues are not limited to PvP, there are imbalances in PvE too. For example mNB DD having way superior dps, healing, mobility and sustain than other classes.
Balance changes won't really affect casual PvE like questing since PvE overland mobs are so weak that you can kill them naked by spamming light attacks. That's why combat balance should be made around PvP and endgame PvE (trials, dlc vet dungeons).
The problem with swift is, it gives mobility to those classes who shouldn't have high mobility like heavy armour users. Another problem is, that swift is more usefull on stamina classes, because they have easy access to snare removal and are not relying on max stats for damage like magicka classes since it is so much easier to get your weapon damage high than your spell damage (medium armour and fighter guild passives, sets like 7th, Fury, Ravager...) and are therefore sacrificing less damage.
I won't call for a nerf on swift, because I don't have many problems with it as ranged DD, but swift isn't really balanced especially when you are playing melee classes and can't hit something because you get out run to easy.
The problem is that there was very annoying and complexed problem of overperforming snares. And it was addressed but not comprehensively that instead of fix resulted to other problems to raise. And something similar happens with other poblems - zos not address it fo so long that it making people to addict to it, and as result even when problem is fixed properly - it still cause rage.
Snares and roots were OP, so we had snare and root immunity, we had swift that should help against snares. But snares and roots were nerfed to have double less duration without taking into account previous counters, like if snares got double less duration why we still have Momentum that provide immunity for twice longer time. Snares is counter to move, and immunity with speedbuffs is to decrease snares.
We literally got counter of counter. And it resulted in movement speed becoming new form of invulnerability or tool to reset battle far superior than streak was once when you cant hit enemy who run away/use LoS as fast as fully leveled mount with 100% benefit of stacking speedbuff and immunity to snares and roots with 100% uptime, to the point where even gap-closer no longer can counter it..
1 Swift is fine, 2 swift is fine, 3 swift is maybe okay when you snared, but 3 swift with complete immunity to snares and major speedbuff, that remove any counter to prevent enemy from simply sprint away and reset fight, is far from being balanced.
If it would be nerfed I would suggest zos to not flat nerf swift coz when not stacked it fine. Something like was done regarding block enchants(that also fine when use 1 but as far as stack it transformed into "cancer") - i.e. not allow to stack it to flat value, so if you don't stack it - you wont see difference. Also reduce duration of immunity provided by Momentum since duration of snares was decreased twice, while compensate it with higher HoT maybe.Edited by Cinbri on September 25, 2018 12:19PM7 -
cheemers✭✭✭✭✭ITT frustrated zergers who cannot effectively rush down solo players so want them slowed down. Let's double snares and remove forward momentum from the game while we're at it.Youtube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCDQ7FrJ0AjMt2auffLEf_Pw
PS4 EU - 18 characters, all DC0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the OP. Swift is fine because EVERYBODY has access to it.
Forward Momentum, on the other hand allows SOME builds to dish out annoying snares and roots while being completely immune to snares and roots themselves. That's not fair!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Forward Momentum, on the other hand allows SOME builds to dish out annoying snares and roots while being completely immune to snares and roots themselves. That's not fair!
Allows ALL builds. There are plenty of mag FM users. But seriously, for the cost, the medium armor ability shuffle should be the 8 second skill, not FM. Or cap all the skills at 4 seconds, including DK wings.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I agree with the OP. Swift is fine because EVERYBODY has access to it.
Forward Momentum, on the other hand allows SOME builds to dish out annoying snares and roots while being completely immune to snares and roots themselves. That's not fair!
I guess we all can agree that a snare removal needs to be avaiable for everyone without severly gimping one's build. At the moment, even from a stam pov it either forces you into medium or into 2h. With I think is somewhat okay because heavy has a hard time using rally (except stam dks).
Would you put it on class skills, open lines or a even a staff skill?0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I agree with the OP. Swift is fine because EVERYBODY has access to it.
Forward Momentum, on the other hand allows SOME builds to dish out annoying snares and roots while being completely immune to snares and roots themselves. That's not fair!
I guess we all can agree that a snare removal needs to be avaiable for everyone without severly gimping one's build. At the moment, even from a stam pov it either forces you into medium or into 2h. With I think is somewhat okay because heavy has a hard time using rally (except stam dks).
Would you put it on class skills, open lines or a even a staff skill?
I think they should just add it to class skills.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I agree with the OP. Swift is fine because EVERYBODY has access to it.
Forward Momentum, on the other hand allows SOME builds to dish out annoying snares and roots while being completely immune to snares and roots themselves. That's not fair!
I guess we all can agree that a snare removal needs to be avaiable for everyone without severly gimping one's build. At the moment, even from a stam pov it either forces you into medium or into 2h. With I think is somewhat okay because heavy has a hard time using rally (except stam dks).
Would you put it on class skills, open lines or a even a staff skill?
Heavy doesn't need rally, you can survive without it easily enough.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't see what the big deal with swift is... If it is so good then use it too.
Anyone can make or retrait jewelry.Playing since beta...1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I agree with the OP. Swift is fine because EVERYBODY has access to it.
Forward Momentum, on the other hand allows SOME builds to dish out annoying snares and roots while being completely immune to snares and roots themselves. That's not fair!
I guess we all can agree that a snare removal needs to be avaiable for everyone without severly gimping one's build. At the moment, even from a stam pov it either forces you into medium or into 2h. With I think is somewhat okay because heavy has a hard time using rally (except stam dks).
Would you put it on class skills, open lines or a even a staff skill?
Heavy doesn't need rally, you can survive without it easily enough.
That's why I said it's okay for them to being somewhat forced into FM.0 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think swift is fine though, it can be annoying when you can't hit someone, I use dizzy swing with a controller so I know exactly how hard it can be trying to hit a x3 swift user, but the issue is with how the game works and with lag, not with someone moving fast imo
I really hate the idea of nerfing forward momentum though. Why does everyone insist that is a good way to go, why not just buff shuffle aswell ? It's like something always has to be nerfed...
As a solo/smallscale player it's the time your slowed down that you die, I don't use swift but when outnumbered by around 10 people and not being able to move is just stupid, I hate the idea of snares and forward momentum hardly works when outnumbered anyway so I would hate to have to spam it too. If they allowed for a more stand your ground gamestyle then less people would be wanting to use speed, but right now in pvp there is so much dmg.
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HEBREWHAMMERRR✭✭✭✭✭I know no one wants to think what they use is “OP” but swift is very much broken lol.4
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't see what the big deal with swift is... If it is so good then use it too.
Anyone can make or retrait jewelry.
No they can't it requires you to buy an expansion.
It's entirely a p2w feature.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I use Swift and no Swift.
You all are just salty because it's harder to get your hits in because zos can't fix their lag issues lol. I fought some stamplar last night in cyro using only 1 Swift and while that dude was running around playing Olympic track runner, I was busy saving my resorces for him to come closer.
Doesn't matter either way, because the real problem is that forward momentum duration is too long and cost is too cheap. Also you can ignore the max resorce drawback off Swift by stacking WD which stamina can do more efficiently than mag.
Till you solve those, you won't properly adjust Swift you'll just create another stat/trait/item that no one will use and 3 months from now we will have players that go "can we buff Swift it's worse than x".Edited by Minno on September 25, 2018 1:59PMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual4 -
BaylorCorvette✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I agree with the OP. Swift is fine because EVERYBODY has access to it.
Forward Momentum, on the other hand allows SOME builds to dish out annoying snares and roots while being completely immune to snares and roots themselves. That's not fair!
This.
Honestly I'd like to see more snare removal / immunity options. I would love to drop 2H & FM for something else, but it's so good I've been using it on my medium armor build for a few months now.
Giving DK wings snare removal and short immunity is a good start but it would be great to see other classes get a snare removal & immunity in their tool kits. Especially Sorcs, since their identity is mobility.Supreme Leader Corvette - StamSorc
Founder of Dominion Special Forces
YouTube - ESO & Automotive Racing
DC Zerg Busting0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Crixus8000 wrote: »I think swift is fine though, it can be annoying when you can't hit someone, I use dizzy swing with a controller so I know exactly how hard it can be trying to hit a x3 swift user, but the issue is with how the game works and with lag, not with someone moving fast imo
I really hate the idea of nerfing forward momentum though. Why does everyone insist that is a good way to go, why not just buff shuffle aswell ? It's like something always has to be nerfed...
As a solo/smallscale player it's the time your slowed down that you die, I don't use swift but when outnumbered by around 10 people and not being able to move is just stupid, I hate the idea of snares and forward momentum hardly works when outnumbered anyway so I would hate to have to spam it too. If they allowed for a more stand your ground gamestyle then less people would be wanting to use speed, but right now in pvp there is so much dmg.
Because Forward Momentum is much cheaper and is tied to a weapon that basically every stam player in PVP already runs. Shuffle should be buffed, but Forward Momentum just shouldn't be as strong as it is in terms of snare immunity. I don't necessarily agree with nerfing it into the ground, but it shouldn't be as strong as or (currently far) stronger than an ability that costs an obscene amount of stamina and forces you into running medium.1 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭XBOX NA
XBOX Series X
#NightmareBear2 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Place diminishing returns on swift. 1x swift = 10% base, 2x swift = 10% base + 6% base, 3x swift = 10% base + 6% base + 3% base.
Also, reduce the snare immunity on forward momentum to 4 seconds, increase the snare immunity on shuffle to 7 seconds.
This is what needs to be done.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster2 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crixus8000 wrote: »I think swift is fine though, it can be annoying when you can't hit someone, I use dizzy swing with a controller so I know exactly how hard it can be trying to hit a x3 swift user, but the issue is with how the game works and with lag, not with someone moving fast imo
I really hate the idea of nerfing forward momentum though. Why does everyone insist that is a good way to go, why not just buff shuffle aswell ? It's like something always has to be nerfed...
As a solo/smallscale player it's the time your slowed down that you die, I don't use swift but when outnumbered by around 10 people and not being able to move is just stupid, I hate the idea of snares and forward momentum hardly works when outnumbered anyway so I would hate to have to spam it too. If they allowed for a more stand your ground gamestyle then less people would be wanting to use speed, but right now in pvp there is so much dmg.
Because Forward Momentum is much cheaper and is tied to a weapon that basically every stam player in PVP already runs. Shuffle should be buffed, but Forward Momentum just shouldn't be as strong as it is in terms of snare immunity. I don't necessarily agree with nerfing it into the ground, but it shouldn't be as strong as or (currently far) stronger than an ability that costs an obscene amount of stamina and forces you into running medium.
I agree, medium should have a better option than forward. I would be happy if shuffle was stronger than forward and I never use medium. But I know how these things work, and even a stamsorc using forward I have massive issues with snares since they are so buggy. They already ruin my pvp experience and I would hate to have that ruined even more by having to spam a skill that doesn't even work all the time.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I agree with the OP. Swift is fine because EVERYBODY has access to it.
Forward Momentum, on the other hand allows SOME builds to dish out annoying snares and roots while being completely immune to snares and roots themselves. That's not fair!
Everyone doesn't have access to it.
It's behind a pay wall that doesn't even come with eso+.
It's 100% p2w e.g. pay for advantage.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
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Do i have an advantage if i have the expansion over someone else who does not have the expansion?
Yes.
Therefore p2w.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem is stacking swift with the other available speed buffs, the server has trouble updating the client with player position making targeting difficult.
Simple solution is to add a player (not mount) speed cap to Battle Spirit which would not affect PvE at all.1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »This is a stupid request
I'm a solo player that doesn't use swift on any of my toons and I have no issues with it. I have yet to have any amount of swift kill me.
If it bothers anyone maybe stop chasing people.
Now Forward Momentum is a whole other ball of wax. I do feel this ability is over the top. It's great when your build can utilize it, but you really feel the loss if you have to use Rally and rely on the wopping 3 second immunity from Shuffle.
Instead of nerfing it though, I'd rather see a buff to the other immunity abilities.
Swift doesn't kill you it makes other people impossible to hit or actually chase.
Maybe stop chasing?
Ya they said that about sorcs but we got a massive cost increase.0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
Someone could craft swift jewelry and give it to a player who doesn't have it...Playing since beta...2 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭All I got from this post: I should run 3 swift on my PvE DD for random PuG dungeons just for the lulz..."Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
Someone could craft swift jewelry and give it to a player who doesn't have it...
That would be generous considering its very expensive.
But now what if i use 2x dropped sets which a lot of people do for pvp? Bone/7th Rav/bone etc..?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
Do i have an advantage if i have the expansion over someone else who does not have the expansion?
Yes.
Therefore p2w.
By that thought every new bis set will be p2w when they don't come as boe. And you couldn't add anything worthwhile to new expansions ever.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Place diminishing returns on swift. 1x swift = 10% base, 2x swift = 10% base + 6% base, 3x swift = 10% base + 6% base + 3% base.
Also, reduce the snare immunity on forward momentum to 4 seconds, increase the snare immunity on shuffle to 7 seconds.
This is what needs to be done.
It does, in that you only have 100% movement speed capped and a cheap snare matching 3 gold swift on one ability.
Problem is entirely the cheap snare immunity off the 2h. Mist form is fine because its a channel and locks your mag regen so it's balanced. It needs to be reduced to 2 seconds and be more expensive than rally (in fact the costs should be swapped).
The other change is to make it lock your stam regen for the immunity duration but buff the HOT (similar to mist form, except not be a channel).Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0
