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Do we now finally have a heavy attack meta?!? (video)
HuawaSepp
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Magicka Nightblade was the class suited most for a light attack rotation. If done well you did more dps than a heavy attack rotation user (saving magicka through many rentless focus procs, cheap spammable etc.)
With Murkmire this seems to change and the heavy attack rotation is leading with about 10 percent more dps.
In the following video I will show a standard magblade rotation on a 6M dummy.
Things to admit:
- I use a absorb magicka glyph instead of a weapon/spell dmg glyph on the frontbar.
- I use 2x magicka reg glyphs on jewelery
- I can't sustain this (another 368 magicka reg will be necessary to keep reg and drain on the same level)
- 10% vampire buff is missing
In summary I loose spell dmg (~200+174+174)x120% = 657 and therefore I guess with a HA rotation + these 657 spell dmg I would have about 5k dps more.
https://youtu.be/hOIQ0skWctI
My questions for you are:
- am I completely wrong because I forgot something
- Is there a way to use a light attack rotation without a dps loss
- are there now other classes/specs which are better sustainable
Edited by HuawaSepp on September 23, 2018 6:35PM With Murkmire this seems to change and the heavy attack rotation is leading with about 10 percent more dps.
In the following video I will show a standard magblade rotation on a 6M dummy.
Things to admit:
- I use a absorb magicka glyph instead of a weapon/spell dmg glyph on the frontbar.
- I use 2x magicka reg glyphs on jewelery
- I can't sustain this (another 368 magicka reg will be necessary to keep reg and drain on the same level)
- 10% vampire buff is missing
In summary I loose spell dmg (~200+174+174)x120% = 657 and therefore I guess with a HA rotation + these 657 spell dmg I would have about 5k dps more.
https://youtu.be/hOIQ0skWctIMy questions for you are:
- am I completely wrong because I forgot something
- Is there a way to use a light attack rotation without a dps loss
- are there now other classes/specs which are better sustainable
PTS-EU
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Konstant_Tel_Necris✭✭✭✭✭First I think I will see new DD options for mDK or sorc, but its again magblade, I'm not surprised.0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Magicka Nightblade was the class suited most for a light attack rotation. If done well you did more dps than a heavy attack rotation user (saving magicka through many rentless focus procs, cheap spammable etc.)
With Murkmire this seems to change and the heavy attack rotation is leading with about 10 percent more dps.
In the following video I will show a standard magblade rotation on a 6M dummy.
Things to admit:
- I use a absorb magicka glyph instead of a weapon/spell dmg glyph on the frontbar.
- I use 2x magicka reg glyphs on jewelery
- I can't sustain this (another 368 magicka reg will be necessary to keep reg and drain on the same level)
- 10% vampire buff is missing
In summary I loose spell dmg (~200+174+174)x120% = 657 and therefore I guess with a HA rotation + these 657 spell dmg I would have about 5k dps more.https://youtu.be/hOIQ0skWctI
My questions for you are:
- am I completely wrong because I forgot something
- Is there a way to use a light attack rotation without a dps loss
- are there now other classes/specs which are better sustainable
This is going to be a total offtopic but watching that just gives me a headache lol. it looks sooooo sooo bad sooo horrible. The animations, by the 8 divines, where have we gone wrong.
I anim cancel myself, and all that stuff... Weaving, Bash Canceling, Swap Canceling, Block Cancelling etc. etc. I never realized how dumb and wonky, stupid and completely ridiculous it makes the game look until now. Holy crap.... And it looks even worse on a Mag blade than any other class I've played.
Since i main Stam classes, I guess we have a little bit smoother animation than Magicka? Even tho I don't really notice it as much while I'm playing? Wow, ZOS.
ON topic though, I'll give it a test, see where it goes.Edited by Nyladreas on September 23, 2018 10:08PM12 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's funny you said you had problems sustaining and you felt like you lost a lot of dmg by having to invest in to regen.
Oh wait... that's what every class other than nightblades do on live right now and even then I can't make it through a 6m test dummy with the amount of stamina/mag pool as you did on your parse.
Don't mean to be apprehensive towards you, just funny is all. I guess the pts changes put nightblades back in line with everyone else, but I was hoping for other classes to be brought up. That being said the changes make sense. ZOS just can't help but nerf every class in to the ground.
I think you dipped in to sustain stats a bit too much. Keep in mind everyone has trouble sustaining a full 6m dummy with no heavy attacks. You should take off a little bit of your sustain investment and remember synergy's in a group help with sustain too.
If heavy attack build ends up being stronger I'd be very surprised.Edited by MashmalloMan on September 23, 2018 10:28PM2 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
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You're doing it already. Finishing a 6m dummy with over 40% of your pool and 0 heavy attacks is great. I'd change your 2 regen glyghs to damage. You will be fine. Your drain and regen do not need to match. There is a lot of moments in real fights where the fight doesn't survive as long, moving mechanics, you have synergy's...- Is there a way to use a light attack rotation without a dps loss- are there now other classes/specs which are better sustainable
Maybe warden now? I have yet to see anyone test them with a parse. You're sustain was crazy good in that video though.
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BigBadVolk✭✭✭✭✭tbh dont switch to regen jewellery, just (if you used blue food) gold food or purple witch mother, also add vamp stage 2 and a backbar magicka damage glyph and you're good to go, or front bar, not sure on this ,never sure with enchants
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpMgRSaD258 also with raid support and such mNBs will be fine still but for older trials currently all stam has way better deeps even stamdks Edited by BigBadVolk on September 23, 2018 11:09PM"The ass is similar to the opinion: Everyone has it, but no one cares about the others!"
I'm 120 years old3 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BigBadVolk wrote: »tbh dont switch to regen jewellery, just (if you used blue food) gold food or purple witch mother, also add vamp stage 2 and a backbar magicka damage glyph and you're good to go, or front bar, not sure on this ,never sure with enchantshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpMgRSaD258 also with raid support and such mNBs will be fine still but for older trials currently all stam has way better deeps even stamdks
This. Use Regen tri stat food drink/food.
Always use an absorb magicka/flame/shock enchant infused on your back bar weapon. Blockade will proc the enchantment no matter what bar you are on.
Front bar is really a mix of w.e you want. I like front bar + absorb magicka.Edited by MashmalloMan on September 23, 2018 11:23PM0 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭This is going to be a total offtopic but watching that just gives me a headache lol. it looks sooooo sooo bad sooo horrible. The animations, by the 8 divines, where have we gone wrong.
If you mean the Elemental Weapon weaving then yeah this looks very confusing. But personally I like weaving and especially animation canceling. It looks, sounds and feels more fluently. The animations in eso are just to poor to not wanna cancel them.Marshall1289 wrote: »Don't mean to be apprehensive towards you, just funny is all. I guess the pts changes put nightblades back in line with everyone else, but I was hoping for other classes to be brought up. That being said the changes make sense. ZOS just can't help but nerf every class in to the ground.
I really have no problem with the nerfs my main class gets. I am all for balancing the classes in terms of usability.BigBadVolk wrote: »tbh dont switch to regen jewellery, just (if you used blue food) gold food or purple witch mother, also add vamp stage 2 and a backbar magicka damage glyph and you're good to go, or front bar, not sure on this ,never sure with enchants
I'm sure in a perfectly buffed raid scenario I will only need the absorb magicka glyph to sustain, but that isn't what awaits me.
My goal I had in mind was to win the last man standing in Hel Ra HM or something like that.
Last time doing Dragonstar Arena with a healer who was not using elemental drain (I did not know he doesn't) was really hard to sustain. With Murkmire such things won't be easier.
I think I will just miss this solo everything nb easymode without heavy attacks stuff.PTS-EU0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They boosted everyone's sustain save for nightblade and DK so RIP (templar is debatable)Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They boosted everyone's sustain save for nightblade and DK so RIP (templar is debatable)
I did not find great buffs on my sorc this patch. Sustain is not one of them anyway.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭50k+ with zero sustain issues and people wonder why NB is getting dialed back?
Non-pet sorc saw zero sustain buffs either.They boosted everyone's sustain save for nightblade and DK so RIP (templar is debatable)
At one point, the Dev intent was to choose between burst DPS (full dmg) and sustained DPS. The fact that it still not a necessary choice on most builds should show that something's not quite right.
When DPS is 3x what is was when CP's were introduced, a lot of things are still overtuned, whatever class you run.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭I did a quick test on the 3M dummy with only light attacks and the absorb magicka glyph, no reg glyphs.
I think I guessed right with the 5k difference. I really don't like the result...
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LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Post title talks about heavy attacks, video has no heavy attacks ...
What's the point being demonstrated here?
Also ... green Max Magicka food, The Lover, half-potting the start, Rearming Trap + Zaan ... this is the very definition of a cheese parse.3 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »50k+ with zero sustain issues and people wonder why NB is getting dialed back?
Non-pet sorc saw zero sustain buffs either.They boosted everyone's sustain save for nightblade and DK so RIP (templar is debatable)
At one point, the Dev intent was to choose between burst DPS (full dmg) and sustained DPS. The fact that it still not a necessary choice on most builds should show that something's not quite right.
When DPS is 3x what is was when CP's were introduced, a lot of things are still overtuned, whatever class you run.
Sorc has a better dark deal which MIGHT be worth using in PvE now.
Stopping a class from doing the best damage by forcing them to do heavy attacks is not good design or fun game-play. It's just boring since magicka heavy attacks suckFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Post title talks about heavy attacks, video has no heavy attacks ...
What's the point being demonstrated here?
The reason why I didn't show a comparison with a heavy attack setup is simple.
I can't do it because I have no practice.
A heavy attack rotation is not like 'oh my magicka is low now I interrupt my rotation for one heavy attack'
- You have to know that all your dot's are fresh enough that you will have the chance to do 2 spammables in a row
- Because of this you can't do a heavy attack everytime, you have to manage your magicka pool wisely
- In a trial where you are using Strife you can't do this heavy attack if your heal dot from strife will run out.LiquidPony wrote: »Also ... green Max Magicka food, The Lover, half-potting the start, Rearming Trap + Zaan ... this is the very definition of a cheese parse.
Yeah I like to cheese in every trial and so I do on the dummy. And I'm not alone with this.
If I do a dummy comparison, I do it right, like the majority of people.
If I do a dummy comparison only for vCR, I do it with my vCR cheese setup.Stopping a class from doing the best damage by forcing them to do heavy attacks is not good design or fun game-play. It's just boring since magicka heavy attacks suck
ExactlyPTS-EU0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Post title talks about heavy attacks, video has no heavy attacks ...
What's the point being demonstrated here?
Also ... green Max Magicka food, The Lover, half-potting the start, Rearming Trap + Zaan ... this is the very definition of a cheese parse.
hard to macro heaviesEdited by usmcjdking on September 24, 2018 7:50PM0331
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Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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Better Dark Deal, eh?Merlin13KAGL wrote: »50k+ with zero sustain issues and people wonder why NB is getting dialed back?
Non-pet sorc saw zero sustain buffs either.They boosted everyone's sustain save for nightblade and DK so RIP (templar is debatable)
At one point, the Dev intent was to choose between burst DPS (full dmg) and sustained DPS. The fact that it still not a necessary choice on most builds should show that something's not quite right.
When DPS is 3x what is was when CP's were introduced, a lot of things are still overtuned, whatever class you run.
Sorc has a better dark deal which MIGHT be worth using in PvE now.
Stopping a class from doing the best damage by forcing them to do heavy attacks is not good design or fun game-play. It's just boring since magicka heavy attacks suck
Same cast time, nerfed, then given back 50% increase upfront (which is still less than the original design).
No one's forcing heavy's. Not on NB anyway. Turns out there are other glyphs that reflect reduced cost and/or sustain.
At one point, those were necessary, finding a sweet spot, if you will.
How many builds now honestly can't simply go full damage? I wasn't big on the Morrowind change either, but clearly it hasn't slowed many people down.
It should balance somewhere in the middle. Right now there is little downside and it's part of the reason the floor and the ceiling keep getting further and further apart. Top end DPS has almost doubled in the last year, in some cases.
Fun as it may be, you honestly don't see a problem with that?
Edited by Merlin13KAGL on September 24, 2018 8:05PMJust because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Without proof it is hard to take your opinion seriously. I find it extremely hard to believe a heavy attack magicka nightblade build would beat a light attack build. Your sustain was insane in that video, you do not need to lose that much dmg through your investments in regen.
Furthermore. Your parses are beyond cheesy. It's not about adding every stat to get the max dps, you are actually hindering your results. You should use the exact same setup you use in a group dungeon. 18k penetration by yourself, green food. I could care less that you are using zaan, but there is no way you would use those in a group.
What is the point of this thread? Provide evidence please.Edited by MashmalloMan on September 24, 2018 9:00PM0 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »hard to macro heavies
Wut? A macro simulates hardware input.
I think my cpu is good enough to do that.Marshall1289 wrote: »Without proof it is hard to take your opinion seriously. I find it extremely hard to believe a heavy attack magicka nightblade build would beat a light attack build. Your sustain was insane in that video, you do not need to lose that much dmg through your investments in regen.
Furthermore. Your parses are beyond cheesy. It's not about adding every stat to get the max dps, you are actually hindering your results. You should use the exact same setup you use in a group dungeon. 18k penetration by yourself, green food. I could care less that you are using zaan, but there is no way you would use those in a group.
What is the point of this thread? Provide evidence please.
I will do a comparison on the 3M dummy when I come home from work.
But to show it more exactly I have to do a comparison on the 50M dummy and I really have no time for this.
And I know that this "cheesy" setup makes it even less accurate because I need less time to destroy the dummy.
But for me it saves time and less time means fewer chances to make rotation mistakes.PTS-EU0 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭Well I somehow did it. Wasn't so hard on the dummy like earlier in trials because yeah... it's a dummy.
Therefore I decided to do it on the 6M dummy and aimed for a try where i didn't mess up my rotation aaand here it is:
Yeah it's mostly the same as in my video but I think with optimizations to my heavy attack weaving/using I can do more dps.
I can do this LA dummy rotation by hart, but I think it's maybe time to renew my playstyle.
If I do the same damage already, I can only gain more dps in aoe fights or burst fights.
Can't see LA rotations survive this patch.
But if I think of how it feels to use heavy attacks... god dangitPTS-EU0