Several weeks to go and No discussion of swift in PvP!

darkstar2084 · September 2018

@ZOS_Finn @ZOS_Wrobel @Gilliamtherogue @ZOS_RobGarrett
Not asking it to be nerfed into the ground to be useless. but it would be nice to able to better target players with the 3x swift, instead of playing ring around the roses. Some adjustments are needed.its just mind numbingly annoying and hard to counter. It might aswell be a cheat engine speed hack.

bardx86 · September 2018

It really need a bit of a tone down.

eso_nya · September 2018

Swift is dangerous! The momentum caused me some awkward buttlandings when gracefully flying down a flight of stairs!

If u have to touch it, please only with battlespirit. The trait is godsend for pve, where it feels like every critter can put a 70% snare on you for just staring angrily.

Galarthor · September 2018

How dare you to suggest nerfing stamina builds?

It's totally balanced that they can run as fast as my horse with little opportunity cost.
Story is different on mag builds as their opportunity cost are higher, but still the Trait needs to be toned down. Half the speed would still do!

BGs other than Deathmatch have become ridiculous due to the high speed of stamina builds in there making it impossible to stop since they do not only have this ludicrous speed but also immunity to CCs and can spam dodge without losing much of their momentum.

Berenhir · September 2018

It's not the speed, it is the speed in combination with snare immunity that makes it so OP in PvP and completely removes the purpose of snares and roots.

Cously · September 2018

Swift is BAE. Perfect heists and sacraments. Broken in BGs. ZOS really need to work out and develop a separate system of skills/passives between PVE/PVP. Been a nightmare overall taking the blanket off the face to cover the feet and vice versa.

Zoal_AUG · September 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

How dare you to suggest nerfing stamina builds?

It's totally balanced that they can run as fast as my horse with little opportunity cost.
Story is different on mag builds as their opportunity cost are higher, but still the Trait needs to be toned down. Half the speed would still do!

BGs other than Deathmatch have become ridiculous due to the high speed of stamina builds in there making it impossible to stop since they do not only have this ludicrous speed but also immunity to CCs and can spam dodge without losing much of their momentum.

As long as classes that have no mobility get their mobility i dont mind. Playing stam dk without swift hf.

Jeezye · September 2018

Its not the trait that is op, it is, as said above, the combination with snare immunity that puts it over the top. Most people therefore get the impression that stamina mobility is out of control, when really said mobility's source is one skill (forward momentum) and argueably its aweful little brother shuffle. Why only stamina classes have exclusive access to root and snare removal is beyond me.. The oppotunity costs of 3 traits for some more movement speed that doesn't directly aid your combat is really high and nerfing the trait will make it useless.

Rikumaru · September 2018

Swift seems perfectly balanced to me (at least in no CP and BGs) on live. I can see it being a little bit too strong for CP though since you get a massive amount of free stats from CP.

Wing · September 2018

I always found swift to be a nice trait considering the raw stats or effects that actually contribute to combat your giving up (infused and what not)

I also tend to find it good regardless of stam or magicka, its not like it speeds up dodge roll, and with the up coming changes to light armor (getting sprint cost reduction) I think its going to be even better on light.

its just that people that run swift are the same people that run move speed immovable pots, and those same people also tend to run forward momentum (even some magicka builds slot a 2h for it if they cannot get it anywhere else)

30% at max move speed alone is not an issue really.

the issue people have is that they cannot catch and kill someone rocking 100% move speed, and immunity to snares and CC. and have to watch them disappear into the distance.

to that I say. . .tough? devoting stats to be fast and not be snared / CC is just as viable as devoting all your stats to damage or tanking.

DarkPicture · September 2018

Just decreased bonus max speed which u can get to 30-50% from 100% and nerf switfs to 7%

Wing · September 2018

Browart wrote: »

Just decreased bonus max speed which u can get to 30-50% from 100% and nerf switfs to 7%

sprint alone is 40% not considering any source of expedition. . .

Kolache · September 2018

Wing wrote: »

Browart wrote: »

Just decreased bonus max speed which u can get to 30-50% from 100% and nerf switfs to 7%

sprint alone is 40% not considering any source of expedition. . .

Taking a little speed off the top of most/all increase methods and the cap doesn't seem like a horrible idea to me personally.

I don't think ESO can/should support Warframe space-ninja gameplay

Wing · September 2018

Kolache wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Browart wrote: »

Just decreased bonus max speed which u can get to 30-50% from 100% and nerf switfs to 7%

sprint alone is 40% not considering any source of expedition. . .

Taking a little speed off the top of most/all increase methods and the cap doesn't seem like a horrible idea to me personally.

I don't think ESO can/should support Warframe space-ninja gameplay

just imagined bullet jumping onto keep walss in eso. . .

Jaxaxo · September 2018

Why not lowering speed bonus and giving a bit of reduce snare effectivness?

Atm swift is so strong mostly cuz usually paired with forward, that way it could be nice addition for some light armor builds which are pretty handicapped comparing to stamina mostly cuz mobility problems.

BigBadVolk · September 2018

Berenhir wrote: »

It's not the speed, it is the speed in combination with snare immunity that makes it so OP in PvP and completely removes the purpose of snares and roots.

+ it makes heavy slow penalty non existent which again makes heavy a much better option then med and light

Wing · September 2018

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Why not lowering speed bonus and giving a bit of reduce snare effectivness?

Atm swift is so strong mostly cuz usually paired with forward, that way it could be nice addition for some light armor builds which are pretty handicapped comparing to stamina mostly cuz mobility problems.

actually I would not mind if it was changed to:

at gold
-5% move speed
-10% snare reduction

Ashamray · September 2018

The only thing that should be nerfed in swift is clunky run animation.
I want viable snare and root removal for everyone but not on a broken level of FM - just less effective because that skill makes roots and snares completely useless for such a low cost that even magicka classes use it.

Emma_Overload · September 2018

Swift is fine... just fix the targeting issues!

brandonv516 · September 2018

Nerfing swift jewelry hurts magicka more than stamina.

There needs to be a base speed penalty based on the type of armor worn.

1.5% penalty for each piece of medium armor worn.
3% penalty for each piece of heavy armor worn.

Wise_Will · September 2018

Swift is fine as is, stop ruining everything for PvE, just because you can not catch/kill someone.

danno8 · September 2018

Diminishing Returns.

*runs and hides*

DirkRavenclaw · September 2018

Please, can we all stop with this Nerf Threads? Pretty Please. Ok, nerf Swift but give us a set back, that increases Mounted Speed. We where actually faster before they changed this set.

LonePirate · September 2018

Since Swift is a problem in PVP with it making Stamina builds even more powerful than they already are, ZOS will undoubtedly “fix” it by changing the trait so that it scales off Stamina and not Magicka or Health and does not offer a flat percentage for all.

Best of all, this solution abides by ZOS’ long standing practice of resolving balance issues in PVP by buffing Stamina builds and/or nerfing Magicka and Health builds. This fix will probably generate champagne toasts at the ZOS office.

Septimus_Magna · September 2018

There's no discussion because everyone agrees Swift is really good in PVP.

Mister_DMC · September 2018

Can't beat em join em. Go get yourself some Swift.

Arciris · September 2018

No more unreasonable cries for Nerfs please.

Swift is fine:

the few times I go into PvP lands I run it on my magika chars (with Prisoner's Rag, I'm as good as Stam)

It's like Impenetrable. It's a must have for PvP, you don't use Impen, don't complain when you die.

And let's remind that super speed stam chars were already a thing before swift trait.

If anything Swift brings Balance by allowing both Light and Heavy armor users to be able to catch up a bit on Medium users.

LonePirate · September 2018

Arciris wrote: »

If anything Swift brings Balance by allowing both Light and Heavy armor users to be able to catch up a bit on Medium users.

You’re absolutely right! Swift brings balance for Light and Heavy armor users so they can catch up to Medium armor users, at least until Medium users also wear three pieces of Swift jewelry and the imbalance in favor of Medium is restored again. That’s the inherent problem here. There is no balance when all types are using it.

Arciris · September 2018

LonePirate wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

If anything Swift brings Balance by allowing both Light and Heavy armor users to be able to catch up a bit on Medium users.

You’re absolutely right! Swift brings balance for Light and Heavy armor users so they can catch up to Medium armor users, at least until Medium users also wear three pieces of Swift jewelry and the imbalance in favor of Medium is restored again. That’s the inherent problem here. There is no balance when all types are using it.

There is a Speed Cap. To reach that speed cap while sprinting, Medium armor have:
- a bit more than 20% sprint increase from Medium (i think it's 23% from all 7 medium)
- 40% from sprint
- 30% from Major expedition (Immovable Speed pots, existing way before Swift)
- and last 10% can be either Minor expedition (StamSorc), Orc, some sets (like Fjords or Jailbreaker) or Steed Mundus+ Wind Running CP
Then use Forward Momentum for Immunity to snares.

All of this existed before Swift was introduced and there was nothing a Light or Heavy user could do but to watch them run away.
Now on my Mag chars or Heavy guys I can catch up with Medium, at the opportunity cost of wearing 3 x Swift instead of something else.
Because there is a Speed Cap, I can run as fast in light or heavy than in medium if I build (sacrifice other stuff) for it. Seems fair to me.

edit typos

vgabor · September 2018

err... if you feel that you cannot catch people with 3 swift, then whats prevent you to put on swift jewellery yourself? surely if you feel that swift so OP you wouldn't mind switching your dmg/resource traits to it?

NBrookus · September 2018

Wing wrote: »

the issue people have is that they cannot catch and kill someone rocking 100% move speed, and immunity to snares and CC. and have to watch them disappear into the distance.

Watching one of these track stars run into the distance as soon as their health drops to 50% is annoying but not game breaking. If everyone has to run swift to pvp, that's no different than impen.

The issue is that the targetting system can't keep up.