Stop kvetching: PTS2 Shields Immune to Interrupts

NinchiTV · September 2018

if they really want a cast tiime just make it 0.5 secs and im sure we'll adapt. No interrupt is a good start.

Biro123 · September 2018

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Removing interrupts is wrong, interrupts is the reward for playing well and catching your opponent using a cast time ability. This punishes skilled play and doesn't address the problem with shields, devs should show some creativity and not just throw skill in the trash by removing interrupts.

Edit

To be clear I'd prefer there wasn't cast time on shields, but making special rule sets for every different skill is just stupid and lazy.

Couldn't agree more.
Also on those advocating cost increases... Sorc' damage in PvP already sucks because they already have to run at least 1.5 sustain sets.
Now for shields to be strong enough, they'll need to run a defence set, acually losing sustain(and losing even more damage).
Their sustain skill also got hit with the nerf bat this patch, and you're advocating higher costs?

What really bugs me about this is why sorc' should be sooo un-fun. I mean does any other class have so many class skills that punish you for spamming?
Streak -increases cost
Curse -only usable every 3 seconds,
Frags - gotta wait for the proc
Cage - now has a delay and can't even be cast if target cc-immune.
Pets - can't use when dead.
And now ppl want an increasing cost on their main class defence?

Is it any wonder sorc' really struggles for bar-space with so many 'occasional use only' abilities?

Cronopoly · September 2018

They can still be Crit & have Cast time and that's the rub, any one of these items is still very damaging to Light Armor wearers.

I would opt for Crittable and non Stackable. Why can this not be done, as it makes so much sense.

Tonturri · September 2018

Damage and shields scale off magicka. Damage and heals scale off max stat and weapon damage.

Why is it only shields that people gripe about when everything else in the game funtions in the exact same way, but with less limitations? I'm pretty sure y'all would flip *** if shields could benefit from spell damage too. Say hello to an immediate extra 500 spel damage contribution to shields cuz of that backbar weapon enchant that's pretty easy to run.

Biro123 · September 2018

Tonturri wrote: »

Damage and shields scale off magicka. Damage and heals scale off max stat and weapon damage.

Why is it only shields that people gripe about when everything else in the game funtions in the exact same way, but with less limitations? I'm pretty sure y'all would flip *** if shields could benefit from spell damage too. Say hello to an immediate extra 500 spel damage contribution to shields cuz of that backbar weapon enchant that's pretty easy to run.

Not to mention the damage-increase... Imagine being able to run high spell-damage and still have defence? Would be a bit like any and every stam build...!

And to the chap above - making shields non-stacking only makes sense when you only look at the 'sorc shields'.. How would it work when a nearby DK casts igneous, or someone activates the boneshield synergy, or someone's healing ward lands on you (whether needed or not)? Does that men you can't cast your nice big hardened ward because you already have a 4k shield from elsewhere? In one fell swoop, it would also make shield glyphs and all sets that proc shields useless.

Nah - removing stacking ain't that simple. Its like saying for healing - oh - that guy already has a mutagen ticking on him - I can't cast BoL..Earthgore won't work, etc...

Mayrael · September 2018

Don't stop bombing forums with this topic. They have stated it won't change at least for PTS 3rd cycle, so stay strong, don't give up.

The only change that should have been done to shields was making them critable and use resistance, then see how it works. Yes it won't affect PvE but 1s cast time is aimed in PvE and destroys PvP completely. To fix PvE:
1. Decarese shields size in PvE by a half, remove them from battle spirit - makes it more consistent and no longer allows to have 40-50k shields in PvE.
2. Change mechanics from one shots to constant pressure - something around 7-10k per second. This would:
A. Make healers very useful again.
B. Shields wouldn't be so awesome because of need to spam them constantly (combined with shields size halved) and in result lowering DPS by a lot. It's easier to turtle in shields for one shot and keep the DPS than constantly keep shield up and try to deal some damage.

DerpyShadowz · September 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

Don't stop bombing forums with this topic. They have stated it won't change at least for PTS 3rd cycle, so stay strong, don't give up.

The only change that should have been done to shields was making them critable and use resistance, then see how it works. Yes it won't affect PvE but 1s cast time is aimed in PvE and destroys PvP completely. To fix PvE:
1. Decarese shields size in PvE by a half, remove them from battle spirit - makes it more consistent and no longer allows to have 40-50k shields in PvE.
2. Change mechanics from one shots to constant pressure - something around 7-10k per second. This would:
A. Make healers very useful again.
B. Shields wouldn't be so awesome because of need to spam them constantly (combined with shields size halved) and in result lowering DPS by a lot. It's easier to turtle in shields for one shot and keep the DPS than constantly keep shield up and try to deal some damage.

What game are you playing where DPS builds have 50k shields in PvE? They have one shield slotted, and its an average of 15k at best. Pretty sure the cast time is more aimed at PvP than PvE

Ragnaroek93 · September 2018

I've played without bashing against sorcs. Sorcs were still not viable. Good thing that the devs are actually doing such a nonsense instead of admitting that their change was a complete fail and revert it so that we can actually do TESTS on the PTS. Instead we're going to waste another week of testing because the devs think cast time on shields are a cool idea and that the community is stupid and doesn't want changes or want to adapt...

TheYKcid · September 2018

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Removing interrupts is wrong, interrupts is the reward for playing well and catching your opponent using a cast time ability. This punishes skilled play and doesn't address the problem with shields, devs should show some creativity and not just throw skill in the trash by removing interrupts.

Edit

To be clear I'd prefer there wasn't cast time on shields, but making special rule sets for every different skill is just stupid and lazy.

It's not without precedent. Melee cast-times & channels (dizzying, jabs, etc) were made uninterruptible because it was decided that it was too disadvantageous. So special rulesets can and have been made where necessary.

But yes, reverting this idiotic 1s cast time fiasco would be preferable still.

Skoomah wrote: »

Shields trivialize PVE content. I run 3 dps and 1 tank all the time in Veteran Dungeons because who needs a healer when dps can shield up on command and dish out massive damage at the same time.

Vet dungeons? Lmao. If it feels trivial it's because you've set the bar at trivial content.

katorga · September 2018

Dark flare for example is very potent.

Only as a opener or gank, like snipe. Once someone is fighting back to you can't cast a 1 second skill reliabily.

PVE is is even worse, a 1+ second delay on reactive defense? Might as well not slot it. For pet sorcs, it finishes them off. The shield was there to keep the pets alive, combine that with losing the 3rd bar, which was there because sorc toggles use up 40-60% of you bar space, and the pet build isn't viable (not that it was super great to start with). This patch deconstructs the entire design and philosophy behind the class.

Over all this patch makes sorc an outdated class not worth playing at all. Which is the entire point. It generates race change sales, and all of the other crown store revenue from players trying to rapidly level of a new toon to replace a ruined one.

profundidob16_ESO · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.

If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.

In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback.

Immune to interrupts.

I still don’t like the cast time because my healer needs it as an Oh Snip! button while in pugs. Without it...

but I used to heal without it a long time ago, I can heal without it again.... and it will be painful.

By the way, let’s not make this another Sorc centric thread. This is about all light armor users.

Healers share your thoughts.

All us healers know it isn’t Shields that make us feel useless, it’s the one-shot mechanics.

All us healers know that pressure phases makes us feel powerful.

I main healer since beta and have completed all possible content without the need or use of a shield skill on my skill bar with the exception of some overtuned vet trial level 1-shot mechanics like e.g vAS endbosss fire waves. I don't miss shields skills at all but that's because I properly build my healer for survivability with 20k health foodbuffed, some extra resistances and always standing in my own healing springs and rune focus. If I had gimped myself into 16k health I will see alot of 1-shots too like so many others. After all when the tank dies only a 'survivor healer' can save the team and help the tank back up. Not a 'glass canon healer'.

Shields are completely overrated and abused nowadays in a way that healers have become obsolete in this game long ago. DPS are boasting nowadays they don't need healers and prefer 3-dps dungeon runs... Those insta-shield skills should have never been in the game in the first place since they trivialize basic attributes and balance. Without those shields sacrificing dps for resistances, health and playing healing roles would have a proper place in this game.

Nowadays every dps gimps the hell out of himself until they are glass cannons. The health or stamina attribute isn't even used at all on dps or healing chars yet they are surprised they get 1 shot !

Lucky28 · September 2018

Frankly it's too late in the games life to dramatically change the games direction. it's a terrible mistake thought they would have learned that with Morrowind which resulted in a decline of a vibrant community..... but whatever, go for it.

profundidob16_ESO · September 2018

Lucky28 wrote: »

Frankly it's too late in the games life to dramatically change the games direction. it's a terrible mistake thought they would have learned that with Morrowind which resulted in a decline of a vibrant community..... but whatever, go for it.

you may be right. When they change this 1 thing in an attempt to fix the obvious problem of shield abuse all the shortcomings in the failing underlying structure will suddenly be come apparent all at once and it will open a entire can of worms...

can't wait to see this hit live. Popcorn ready !

Kolache · September 2018

Lucky28 wrote: »

Frankly it's too late in the games life to dramatically change the games direction. it's a terrible mistake thought they would have learned that with Morrowind which resulted in a decline of a vibrant community..... but whatever, go for it.

Are they really dramatically changing the game's direction? I think of One Tamriel as a dramatic change and I don't see how this patch really compares to that.

Lucky28 · September 2018

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Frankly it's too late in the games life to dramatically change the games direction. it's a terrible mistake thought they would have learned that with Morrowind which resulted in a decline of a vibrant community..... but whatever, go for it.

you may be right. When they change this 1 thing in an attempt to fix the obvious problem of shield abuse all the shortcomings in the failing underlying structure will suddenly be come apparent all at once and it will open a entire can of worms...

can't wait to see this hit live. Popcorn ready !

It's not just shields. i haven't seen a single thing in the patch notes across all classes that i like. And it's not just this one patch either, they've been going down this path for a while and it's accumulated, the homogenization of classes which has resulted in a loss of dynamic engagements in Cyrodiil. Every fight in Cyrodiil is the same as the last this game has become more of a bore with each patch.

LadyNalcarya · September 2018

_Salty_ wrote: »

The problem with shield stacking is that there is no risk reward in the play style.

Only reward. Since shields scale off of max magicka, you can be tankier than a pure tank and hit harder.

Since shields are a defensive mechanism, have them remove the cast time to be able to react when needed but have them scale off of HP instead of Magicka.

Problem solved. You want to have high shields then sacrifice damage or sustain.

No risk? You're greatly overestimating their effectiveness.
And what about those heavy sets that allow stamina classes to be tanky without sacrificing damage? There's a lot of high reward mechanics, and shields arent even the most OP one.

Varana · September 2018

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Shields are completely overrated and abused nowadays in a way that healers have become obsolete in this game long ago. DPS are boasting nowadays they don't need healers and prefer 3-dps dungeon runs... Those insta-shield skills should have never been in the game in the first place since they trivialize basic attributes and balance. Without those shields sacrificing dps for resistances, health and playing healing roles would have a proper place in this game.

Nowadays every dps gimps the hell out of himself until they are glass cannons. The health or stamina attribute isn't even used at all on dps or healing chars yet they are surprised they get 1 shot !

Yeah, those pesky shields that every stamblade DD is using all the time, and they never put any points into stam... wait, what?
Not every DD is magicka-based; on the contrary, some of the better options aren't.

3-DD-runs are a thing because every class has some healing abilities that keep them alive in easier content. Shields are only a minor part of that. This whole "shields make healers obsolete" is complete nonsense.

jaws343 · September 2018

Varana wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Shields are completely overrated and abused nowadays in a way that healers have become obsolete in this game long ago. DPS are boasting nowadays they don't need healers and prefer 3-dps dungeon runs... Those insta-shield skills should have never been in the game in the first place since they trivialize basic attributes and balance. Without those shields sacrificing dps for resistances, health and playing healing roles would have a proper place in this game.

Nowadays every dps gimps the hell out of himself until they are glass cannons. The health or stamina attribute isn't even used at all on dps or healing chars yet they are surprised they get 1 shot !

Yeah, those pesky shields that every stamblade DD is using all the time, and they never put any points into stam... wait, what?
Not every DD is magicka-based; on the contrary, some of the better options aren't.

3-DD-runs are a thing because every class has some healing abilities that keep them alive in easier content. Shields are only a minor part of that. This whole "shields make healers obsolete" is complete nonsense.

While self healing is a part. The change to one shot mechanics are what has really made healers irrelevant. There are so many mechanics that healing cannot counter in the dungeons from the last year. So running a healer is a detriment because having more damage allows you to mitigate those mechanics better.

profundidob16_ESO · September 2018

Varana wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Shields are completely overrated and abused nowadays in a way that healers have become obsolete in this game long ago. DPS are boasting nowadays they don't need healers and prefer 3-dps dungeon runs... Those insta-shield skills should have never been in the game in the first place since they trivialize basic attributes and balance. Without those shields sacrificing dps for resistances, health and playing healing roles would have a proper place in this game.

Nowadays every dps gimps the hell out of himself until they are glass cannons. The health or stamina attribute isn't even used at all on dps or healing chars yet they are surprised they get 1 shot !

Yeah, those pesky shields that every stamblade DD is using all the time, and they never put any points into stam... wait, what?
Not every DD is magicka-based; on the contrary, some of the better options aren't.

3-DD-runs are a thing because every class has some healing abilities that keep them alive in easier content. Shields are only a minor part of that. This whole "shields make healers obsolete" is complete nonsense.

I agree. The simple fact that stam dps don't get shields that magicka dps got is already broken and imbalanced. It makes no sense why stam dps wouldn't get access to an emergency shield but magicka dps does.

JadonSky · September 2018

So new patch notes still show how much the developers don't play the game. They think being able to be interrupted was the reason why "CAST TIME" made shield users vulnerable for "TO LONG" not the fact they added a "CAST TIME" to force shield user to be vulnerable longer. Like who the hell is coming up with these changes and the reasoning. If they played the game they would know shields only last 1-2 seconds in a real fight and once you can't cast a shield you die. It would be like adding a cast time to cloak, NB would not survive. Still will not renew my subscription until the cast time is removed this is still not acceptable. There are better ways to nerf shield stacking that would not destroy a class. For a game who needs their subscriber base and their players they sure show a lack of caring for their player base with these type of changes.

Daedric Summoning
Conjured Ward: This ability and its morphs can no longer be interrupted.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Because combat pace is so quick, allowing this ability to be interrupted meant that Light Armor players would be vulnerable for too long. Keeping the cast time, but now allowing it to be interrupted allows enemies a short window of time to get in burst damage and kill a damage shield user. We’ll continue to monitor feedback closely for this ability throughout this PTS cycle.

Tendoshii · September 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

If you want to add cooldown, no problem. But not cast time! Stacking cost increase as Bolt Escape is a less painful solution. "Casting again within X seconds cost Y% more Magicka."

This is so simple, intuitive, logical, and balanced that the only reason not to do it is “ZOS gonna ZOS.”

Lord_Eomer · September 2018

ZOS never understands his Customers!

Good luck ZOS combat team with their worst decision!

I may un-sub on PS4 and PC.

SirLeeMinion · September 2018

max_only wrote: »

Immune to interrupts. I still don’t like the cast time because my healer needs it as an Oh Snip! button while in pugs.... but I used to heal without it a long time ago, I can heal without it again.... and it will be painful.

By the way, let’s not make this another Sorc centric thread. This is about all light armor users....
All us healers know it isn’t Shields that make us feel useless, it’s the one-shot mechanics. All us healers know that pressure phases makes us feel powerful.

My thoughts exactly. With at least one fully leveled stam and mag toon of every class, I've shelved just about every class for a while after a major nerf. This makes it look like I'll be shelving all my light armor users for a while. And, I totally agree with your observations about one-shots vs. pressure phases.

The amount of stubborn foolishness coming from ZOS on the cast time rivals that of the Morrowind resource nerf. Will I keep playing? Yes. Will I try out and drop money on alternate MMOs as I did after Morrowind and during the Summerset ad spam. Yes. Does ZOS care: no.

profundidob16_ESO · September 2018

Lucky28 wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Frankly it's too late in the games life to dramatically change the games direction. it's a terrible mistake thought they would have learned that with Morrowind which resulted in a decline of a vibrant community..... but whatever, go for it.

you may be right. When they change this 1 thing in an attempt to fix the obvious problem of shield abuse all the shortcomings in the failing underlying structure will suddenly be come apparent all at once and it will open a entire can of worms...

can't wait to see this hit live. Popcorn ready !

It's not just shields. i haven't seen a single thing in the patch notes across all classes that i like. And it's not just this one patch either, they've been going down this path for a while and it's accumulated, the homogenization of classes which has resulted in a loss of dynamic engagements in Cyrodiil. Every fight in Cyrodiil is the same as the last this game has become more of a bore with each patch.

Nobody likes it when the nerfbat hits them in order to finally bring back long-lost balance step by step yet it's long overdue and necessary whether you can see that or not. The dev's and class reps do see it finally and this is just starting, not going down this path for long. Just wait and see what changes will come after these and THEN you'll be really screaming