Stop kvetching: PTS2 Shields Immune to Interrupts

max_only

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we've been monitoring the feedback on this thread and elsewhere on the forums. Clearly there's a lot of concern around the impact of adding a cast time to Conjured Ward and Annulment.

First I'd like to talk about our motivation with the change. We believe choices between damage output and survivability make combat more interesting. There are a number of areas within our system that could better adhere to this philosophy, but these self-cast damage shield abilities stood out as being particularly out of line. It was too easy to throw a bunch of effective health on yourself while making a minimal sacrifice in terms of DPS itemization and rotation. This applied to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

The addition of a cast time makes that choice between damage output and survivability more deliberate and strategic. However, as many of you have pointed out, there are several potential issues with this solution. We identified many of these risks prior to PTS, and we're actively monitoring feedback from the community, Class Reps, and PTS testers.

If we decide to make significant changes to the abilities, those changes would not appear until at least PTS 3. However, we agree Conjured Ward and Annulment are too easy to interrupt in PvP, so we'll be making both spells immune to interrupts for PTS 2. We'll also be meeting with the Class Reps next week to discuss the changes.

In the meantime, we encourage you to continue experimenting, evaluating, and providing feedback.

Immune to interrupts.


I still don’t like the cast time because my healer needs it as an Oh Snip! button while in pugs. Without it...



but I used to heal without it a long time ago, I can heal without it again.... and it will be painful.

By the way, let’s not make this another Sorc centric thread. This is about all light armor users.

Healers share your thoughts.

All us healers know it isn’t Shields that make us feel useless, it’s the one-shot mechanics.

All us healers know that pressure phases makes us feel powerful.

Tommy_The_Gun

I don't like where this is going... if they are pushing those changes so hard that they want to have a cast time on one of the "survival" class skills... Lets just say that I can't imagine having a cast time (with or without interrupts) on Templar's Breath of Life or Nightbalde's Cloak...

The_Lex

But...but...this will make healers feel needed again!

Konstant_Tel_Necris

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I don't like where this is going... if they are pushing those changes so hard that they want to have a cast time on one of the "survival" class skills... Lets just say that I can't imagine having a cast time (with or without interrupts) on Templar's Breath of Life or Nightbalde's Cloak...

Healing Ritual have cast time before, but I prefer if Cloak have stacking cost increase as Bolt Escape have, as it allow be immune to damage and at same time have damage increase.

They should leave Empowered Ward as instant cast as it was useful for group support and saving pets from death, sorc already have low group utility why drop it even more, I even agree with reduced strength but leave our utility as it was before.

If devs make such changes why not add more utility to sorc how about adding aoe magicka restore when Empowered Ward dissolves?

Konstant_Tel_Necris

The_Patriarch wrote: »

But...but...this will make healers feel needed again!

That's make sorcerer healer unnecessary even more, why take them in party if they heal depend on Twilight Matriarch what cannot be protected? Thats also make Sentinel of Rkugamz compleat trash.

Artim_X

Sorcs that used their 3rd bar to add more utility to their healing builds will probably feel more useless...

ArchMikem

I main a Healer and i never use shields. I mean why? If you have a good Tank and know mechanics then everything that will still hit you can easily be blocked or healed through.

Rungar

i dont like the cast time because cast time doesn't work in this game really. They should of come up with something else.

my favorite was 6-7k cost cost and 50% magicka regeneration debuff for 4 seconds

i.e the magicka regen was shunted to power the shield.

i would of also preferred a smaller shield that regenerated a bit over the duration unless it was shattered.

D0PAMINE

The_Patriarch wrote: »

But...but...this will make healers feel needed again!

If you can do the content without a healer, then you will likely still be able to once it goes live.

D0PAMINE

ArchMikem wrote: »

I main a Healer and i never use shields. I mean why? If you have a good Tank and know mechanics then everything that will still hit you can easily be blocked or healed through.

I throw down healing ward because it's ezpz

Doctordarkspawn

Bad change to sorcs.

Bad change to light armor.

Dont stop until they reverse it. Either ZOS bends, or breaks.

joaaocaampos

ZOS doesnt know what to do. Cast time is outdated - for any skill. Channeling is acceptable.

If you want to add cooldown, no problem. But not cast time! Stacking cost increase as Bolt Escape is a less painful solution. "Casting again within X seconds cost Y% more Magicka."

idk

ArchMikem wrote: »

I main a Healer and i never use shields. I mean why? If you have a good Tank and know mechanics then everything that will still hit you can easily be blocked or healed through.

In 4 man dungeons, sure it is not needed. In more challenging trials, at least one, it is a smart idea to have it.

Specifically vAS, one healer stands behind the tank and kites the lightning splashes for the group. There is additional lightning meteors that fall and everyone has to kit them. Essentially, during that time a healer is best having a shield available as any heal is unreliable or forces the character to stop moving increasing the chance of taking a good amount of additional damage and of course death.

So it is easy for one to say they do not use shields as a healer, but there are situations where it is very beneficial to healers that work on and clear the more challenging content in the game.

LarsS

Skills with cast time is useless in pvp, it would be better to for ex increase cost.

brandonv516

LarsS wrote: »

Skills with cast time is useless in pvp, it would be better to for ex increase cost.

Defensive skills yes. Dark flare for example is very potent.

Waseem

damage in PVE has been buffed greatly due to some sets, time to even the odds, instead of doing a trial with 16k hp, do it with 22-24k, im sure dps races are out of this game.. some bosses become immune to dmg for a reason

Vahrokh

Waseem wrote: »

damage in PVE has been buffed greatly due to some sets, time to even the odds, instead of doing a trial with 16k hp, do it with 22-24k, im sure dps races are out of this game.. some bosses become immune to dmg for a reason

Yeah, sure, let's impose 22-24k health and maybe a nice healing backbar to some pure DPS, no utility classes, while all the others can still do full damage with no downside whatsoever. Sounds like a well idea.

TheInfernalRage

Here's the thing @ZOS_RobGarrett. If you want shields to be tactical, you can just increase its magicka cost (even in succeeding cast) or just add a cooldown. A CAST TIME IS NOT A SOLUTION. WHY ARE YOU PUSHING THIS? A SHIELD NEEDS TO BE THERE WHEN I CAST IT BECAUSE THAT'S THE IMPORTANT PART. I DON'T CARE ABOUT KEEPING IT AT 6 SECONDS AS LONG AS IT'S THERE INSTANTLY WHEN I CAST IT. WHY IS THAT DIFFICULT TO GRASP?

AhPook_Is_Here

Removing interrupts is wrong, interrupts is the reward for playing well and catching your opponent using a cast time ability. This punishes skilled play and doesn't address the problem with shields, devs should show some creativity and not just throw skill in the trash by removing interrupts.

Edit

To be clear I'd prefer there wasn't cast time on shields, but making special rule sets for every different skill is just stupid and lazy.

Conduit0

I think its really telling that the only people seemingly in favor of this nerf are sorc haters and everyone who is against the nerf isn't against nerfing shields in general.

max_only

ArchMikem wrote: »

I main a Healer and i never use shields. I mean why? If you have a good Tank and know mechanics then everything that will still hit you can easily be blocked or healed through.

When I pug on my healer.

Pugs bruh, no telling what the tank will be.

_Salty_

The problem with shield stacking is that there is no risk reward in the play style.

Only reward. Since shields scale off of max magicka, you can be tankier than a pure tank and hit harder.

Since shields are a defensive mechanism, have them remove the cast time to be able to react when needed but have them scale off of HP instead of Magicka.

Problem solved. You want to have high shields then sacrifice damage or sustain.

Conduit0

_Salty_ wrote: »

The problem with shield stacking is that there is no risk reward in the play style.

Only reward. Since shields scale off of max magicka, you can be tankier than a pure tank and hit harder.

Since shields are a defensive mechanism, have them remove the cast time to be able to react when needed but have them scale off of HP instead of Magicka.

Problem solved. You want to have high shields then sacrifice damage or sustain.

Bone shield and Obsidian shield scale off max health and no dps uses them. Why? Because they're too small to be useful, anything less than a 10k shield is just a waste of a GCD.

Also there is a risk and its the same risk involved in blocking or dodge rolling for a stamina character, the defense consumes resources, and the risk is running out of resources before the enemy is dead.

_Salty_

Conduit0 wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

The problem with shield stacking is that there is no risk reward in the play style.

Only reward. Since shields scale off of max magicka, you can be tankier than a pure tank and hit harder.

Since shields are a defensive mechanism, have them remove the cast time to be able to react when needed but have them scale off of HP instead of Magicka.

Problem solved. You want to have high shields then sacrifice damage or sustain.

Bone shield and Obsidian shield scale off max health and no dps uses them. Why? Because they're too small to be useful, anything less than a 10k shield is just a waste of a GCD.

Also there is a risk and its the same risk involved in blocking or dodge rolling for a stamina character, the defense consumes resources, and the risk is running out of resources before the enemy is dead.

Bottom line. A sorc shouldnt be able to spec all damage and have the best mitigation in the game. 1 sorc shouldn't be able to face tank a group and burst people down at the same time.

Shields are a flawed concept in PvP. I dont care about Pve. Pve is a faceroll. Memorize the mechanics and breeze through. Its the same thing over and over again.

If Zos didnt think shields were over tuned they wouldn't have added bandaid sets like shield breaker and sloads and added a shield damage CP. The problem is they have no idea how to deal with it.

I dont like the cast time change. However the other changes are headed in the right direction. It still needs more.

Conduit0

_Salty_ wrote: »

Bottom line. A sorc shouldnt be able to spec all damage and have the best mitigation in the game. 1 sorc shouldn't be able to face tank a group and burst people down at the same time.

Every class can 1vX, most players are potatoes and can be easily killed even in groups by any remotely competent player. Also no magicka toon is speccing all damage in pvp, regen is critical in any reasonable magicka build.

_Salty_ wrote: »

Shields are a flawed concept in PvP. I dont care about Pve. Pve is a faceroll. Memorize the mechanics and breeze through. Its the same thing over and over again.

And I don't care about pvp, go play Fortnite or some other multiplayer cancer game with that attitude.

_Salty_ wrote: »

If Zos didnt think shields were over tuned they wouldn't have added bandaid sets like shield breaker and sloads and added a shield damage CP. The problem is they have no idea how to deal with it.

ZOS doesn't know its posterior orifice from a hole in the ground, as exemplified by the Morrowind regen nerf that they've spent the last year rolling back. Also there are sets and CP for dealing with high resistances and healing, so by your logic those should be nerfed as well.

_Salty_ wrote: »

I dont like the cast time change. However the other changes are headed in the right direction. It still needs more.

ccfeeling

1 sec cast time , immu to interupt , longer duration .

So far so good .

Witar

Combat team is looking increasingly more and more stupid. Most magsorcs are not more durable or have more dps then their correctly builded stamina counterparts both in pve and pvp. Statements like that are just showing that devs do not have firsthand experience of playing their own damn game on magsorc. I'm not going to continue playing on magsorc cause cast time is just ridiculous for the shield that holds for less then this cast time in a fight with competent player.

Ratzkifal

As a breton healer with full divine gear for amazing regen I am sad to see that my fragile 17k health won't be safe behind Annulment anymore. That hits me especially hard since I was originally planning to commit to being a healer main once my "usual suspect" for pve activities, my sorc, will be gutted and my tank has had resource issues ever since Morrowind and it pains me to let go of my 63k health.

At least my warden and stamplar will have a glorious future. Too bad my jabs won't deal as much damage in pvp anymore. But I guess you just can't have it all.

Skoomah

Shields trivialize PVE content. I run 3 dps and 1 tank all the time in Veteran Dungeons because who needs a healer when dps can shield up on command and dish out massive damage at the same time.

In PvP, mitigation of damage while dishing out tons of damage at the same time is the meta. There is no real choice right now between high damage or high mitigation. Everyone runs around with both. If you are around 18k hp, you should die easily if someone locks you down and unloads damage onto you. That isn’t the case right now. You run around as a glass cannon AND can still tank the heck out of stuff.

Witar

Glass canon with two regen sets and reduce cost\regen in jewelry You can also run stamwarden and wear 3 high damage sets (bone pirate 7 legion bloodspawn) and be so sooooo much tankeir. Stop typing all that nonsense please.

oxygen_thief

_Salty_ wrote: »

The problem with shield stacking is that there is no risk reward in the play style.

Only reward. Since shields scale off of max magicka, you can be tankier than a pure tank and hit harder.

Since shields are a defensive mechanism, have them remove the cast time to be able to react when needed but have them scale off of HP instead of Magicka.

Problem solved. You want to have high shields then sacrifice damage or sustain.

its a lie. I doubt you have ever played sorc. if I am wrong can you please show me a video of you being in a focus of a high MMR battleground group. where you are taking all their damage and killing them one by one with your high damage