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Do you support adding a cast time change for damage shields?

  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    Yes, damage shields should have a cast time.
    People are going to call me crazy, but in general, I do.

    I get that nobody likes nerfs, but I like to have simple counter play (instead of gimmicks like Shieldbreaker) and good risk vs reward scenarios. In general, ESO does terrible on the risk side, the only real cost to most skills is the literal resource cost, as there are very few skills with a cast time and the simple animation every skill has can be canceled.

    But that doesn't mean I don't have issues with the current execution. Quite a bit, in fact.
    1. Because the combat relies so heavily on animation canceling, cast times also feel much more punishing than they should, as there is often still an animation after the cast. If you cancel that one too early, you break the whole cast and wasted that time, and if you cancel it too late, you are effectively having a longer cast time than the skill should have. Until this is adressed, no skill should receive a cast time. I can't make clear suggestions how, either with a better visual indicator how long the cast time is (cast bar?) or removing the post-cast-animations, but casting needs to feel much better to fit into the flow of combat.
    2. There is no consistency across shields. The only shields that received a cast time are Annulment and Conjured Ward - why? If anything, it's the shields used by heavy armor tank builds that should have a longer cast time, as they are getting the most reward out of it with the resistance changes. Don't get me wrong, instant cast Sun Shield on my Templar is amazing, but how is it fair?
    3. In the same line, ideally, light armor builds should have a shorter cast time than heavy armor builds. What I'd like to see is a light armor passive that reduces cast times across the board, maybe also increasing movement speed while casting.
    4. The obvious one: ONE SECOND IS TOO FREAKING LONG. Especially with all the compounding factors mentioned above, it feels even longer than that. Ideally, it wouldn't be much longer than the current (Live) animation. Whether this is achieved by just reducing the cast time or the aforementioned light armor passive, idc.
    5. Not directly related to the cast time, but the developer statement says that shields are supposed to be more beneficial for tanks. That is a colossal shift of what shields have been used for since release, effectively taking the main means of defense from the squishiest role and giving it to the tankiest. While I welcome more tanking options for PvE, I don't feel this has been well thought out at all. There are too many unforeseeable implications with this, and not having consistent behavior for shields only makes it worse.
    6. This is more of a suggestion than a complaint, but it might also be nice to have counter play to interrupt. For example, shields could give immunity to interrupting cast times, which would make it safe to cast shields as long as you keep them up.
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  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    With a game as dynamic as ESO. *** no
    #MOREORBS
  • lassitershawn
    lassitershawn
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    Dumbest change I've seen in the history of this game. Not the primary reason mag is better than stam in some PvE content, not the reason healers are useless in some dungeons, *** mag players and especially magsorcs in PvP.
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  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Yes, damage shields should have a cast time.
    As my post in the Update 20 Combat Balance Feedback Thread says, this actually provides us with the increased duration we wouldn't get without the cast time likely and it now works with the Light of Cyrodiil set which is a very nice benefit, while the cast time is very short almost the same as the animation already was.

    It's not bad.
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    We'll this one is easy to tell who's not a sorc / is a nightblade / came to skew the poll / is trollin. Look for the reds :)
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  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Yes, damage shields should have a cast time.
    Beardimus wrote: »
    We'll this one is easy to tell who's not a sorc / is a nightblade / came to skew the poll / is trollin. Look for the reds :)

    Easy to tell? Which do you think is which?

    I can see how this will benefit every class, especially certain builds of sorcerers and templars and nightblades.
    I haven't played enough of dragonknights or wardens or build planned much for them to see how it benefits them as much as the others, but it definitely benefits them all in general very well.
  • haelene
    haelene
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    Beardimus wrote: »
    We'll this one is easy to tell who's not a sorc / is a nightblade / came to skew the poll / is trollin. Look for the reds :)

    Easy to tell? Which do you think is which?

    I can see how this will benefit every class, especially certain builds of sorcerers and templars and nightblades.
    I haven't played enough of dragonknights or wardens or build planned much for them to see how it benefits them as much as the others, but it definitely benefits them all in general very well.

    I'm a magden main who primarily PvE's. Please tell me how this benefits me in any way? I'm not being snarky here. I'm serious. How in the world can delaying my safety against one shots with minimal to no tells benefit me?
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    Crit damage? Crit damage was fine, mitigation was fine, leting it be temporary health with all that was fine.

    Cast time is not. Cast time ruins the skill. Remove cast time.

    AS others have stated, one-shot mechanics make healers feel useless, not shields and player defenses.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Please pass -that- distinction along to the team.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 18, 2018 6:40AM
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Yes, damage shields should have a cast time.
    haelene wrote: »
    Beardimus wrote: »
    We'll this one is easy to tell who's not a sorc / is a nightblade / came to skew the poll / is trollin. Look for the reds :)

    Easy to tell? Which do you think is which?

    I can see how this will benefit every class, especially certain builds of sorcerers and templars and nightblades.
    I haven't played enough of dragonknights or wardens or build planned much for them to see how it benefits them as much as the others, but it definitely benefits them all in general very well.

    I'm a magden main who primarily PvE's. Please tell me how this benefits me in any way? I'm not being snarky here. I'm serious. How in the world can delaying my safety against one shots with minimal to no tells benefit me?

    Block one-shots. Seriously, all resistance applies before shields with this change and I never used shields against those before anyway.
    Even a light armor user can survive one-shots if they just learn to block, or even dodge, which you don't have to do often enough to bother with any stamina stats.

    Also, the shields last longer and PVE enemies are predictable in patterns enough that you should have the shield up before the one-shot is animating so you don't need to "emergency shield!" like a completely unprepared noob.
  • Pr0Skygon
    Pr0Skygon
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    The fact that you can already crit the shields, on top of this delay, is just stupid. ZOS told us that they want the game to be fast pace action, then put a delay on our survival skills. What kind of paradox is this???
    Edited by Pr0Skygon on September 18, 2018 8:02AM
  • haelene
    haelene
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    haelene wrote: »
    Beardimus wrote: »
    We'll this one is easy to tell who's not a sorc / is a nightblade / came to skew the poll / is trollin. Look for the reds :)

    Easy to tell? Which do you think is which?

    I can see how this will benefit every class, especially certain builds of sorcerers and templars and nightblades.
    I haven't played enough of dragonknights or wardens or build planned much for them to see how it benefits them as much as the others, but it definitely benefits them all in general very well.

    I'm a magden main who primarily PvE's. Please tell me how this benefits me in any way? I'm not being snarky here. I'm serious. How in the world can delaying my safety against one shots with minimal to no tells benefit me?

    Block one-shots. Seriously, all resistance applies before shields with this change and I never used shields against those before anyway.
    Even a light armor user can survive one-shots if they just learn to block, or even dodge, which you don't have to do often enough to bother with any stamina stats.

    Also, the shields last longer and PVE enemies are predictable in patterns enough that you should have the shield up before the one-shot is animating so you don't need to "emergency shield!" like a completely unprepared noob.

    Not all bosses have tells, and some of them are super short. Plus you're ignoring how mag builds don't have enough stamina to consistently roll dodge and block like that in a longer fight.

    The only valid point here is to keep the shield up - always, which is expensive as hell and now pretty time consuming. Plus it's interruptable. I don't know about you, but last time I checked enemies can and do use lots of stuns and cc that will certainly interrupt the cast - making it pointless.

    Also, you loose any and all credibility when you start throwing things like noob around.

    Plus, you didn't answer my question. You've not explained how it's a benefit to me.
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    So so tired of PvP changes harming PvE... just seperate them already
  • Rak_am
    Rak_am
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    unnecessary change, stupid. Why ?
    zenimax, FIX THE GAME
  • Deep_01
    Deep_01
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    Why balance something that is not broken?
    @Deepan on PC-EU
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    ZOS, please do not ruin the gameplay.
    PvP will be a pain for shield users. Light Armor will be dead. Please
    FIRE THE INCOMPETENT WHO CAME UP WITH A SHIELD DELAY

    Edited by BalticBlues on September 18, 2018 9:05AM
  • Eweroun
    Eweroun
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    Is this a change suggested by Zos or by class representatives....? If the latter... Ditch them...
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  • Liofa
    Liofa
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    While reading the patch notes, I saw the crit thing and said "yeah ok", then saw the resist thing and said "ok kinda balances the crit thing whatever". It was all good until I read the cast time. I would understand if they punished the player for spamming the shield with something like "if you cast the shield again in 3 seconds, it will have 1 seconds of casting time." But no. Just straight unnecessary nerf. I mean, resistances applying to shields already is a buff but balanced by the crit thing. It was good right there. Should have stopped at this point. It would create diversity as well. I was excited to see Heavy Armour Magicka Sorcerers until I read the casting time change. This game is very dynamic and fast paced. Channels are just... ugh. Especially on the magicka users main defense. This needs to go in my opinion.
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    MacCait wrote: »
    So so tired of PvP changes harming PvE... just seperate them already

    So tired of PVE-ers blaming PvP for what is obviously a PVE driven nerf.
    Did Zos not state that they wanted to nerf shields to give healers more of a role?
    Does the crit damage nerf impact pve in any way?
    Resists? No, wait, that's a buff ..
    Soo that leaves the cast time...

    So tired of PVE changes harming PVP.
    Minalan owes me a beer.

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  • Rak_am
    Rak_am
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    haelene wrote: »
    Beardimus wrote: »
    We'll this one is easy to tell who's not a sorc / is a nightblade / came to skew the poll / is trollin. Look for the reds :)

    Easy to tell? Which do you think is which?

    I can see how this will benefit every class, especially certain builds of sorcerers and templars and nightblades.
    I haven't played enough of dragonknights or wardens or build planned much for them to see how it benefits them as much as the others, but it definitely benefits them all in general very well.

    I'm a magden main who primarily PvE's. Please tell me how this benefits me in any way? I'm not being snarky here. I'm serious. How in the world can delaying my safety against one shots with minimal to no tells benefit me?

    Block one-shots. Seriously, all resistance applies before shields with this change and I never used shields against those before anyway.
    Even a light armor user can survive one-shots if they just learn to block, or even dodge, which you don't have to do often enough to bother with any stamina stats.

    Also, the shields last longer and PVE enemies are predictable in patterns enough that you should have the shield up before the one-shot is animating so you don't need to "emergency shield!" like a completely unprepared noob.

    lol roll dodge in vmol... vas... vhof... lol lol lol (block ok sure)

    zenimax, FIX THE GAME
  • IndorilArwynLlethran
    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    Just No. There is nothing to balance, nothing to redesign, shields are not broken, not op, not up, shields are perfectly ok. And the author of the idea probably needs some rest.
  • Gythral
    Gythral
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    Hell

    NO
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  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Yes, damage shields should have a cast time.
    haelene wrote: »
    haelene wrote: »
    Beardimus wrote: »
    We'll this one is easy to tell who's not a sorc / is a nightblade / came to skew the poll / is trollin. Look for the reds :)

    Easy to tell? Which do you think is which?

    I can see how this will benefit every class, especially certain builds of sorcerers and templars and nightblades.
    I haven't played enough of dragonknights or wardens or build planned much for them to see how it benefits them as much as the others, but it definitely benefits them all in general very well.

    I'm a magden main who primarily PvE's. Please tell me how this benefits me in any way? I'm not being snarky here. I'm serious. How in the world can delaying my safety against one shots with minimal to no tells benefit me?

    Block one-shots. Seriously, all resistance applies before shields with this change and I never used shields against those before anyway.
    Even a light armor user can survive one-shots if they just learn to block, or even dodge, which you don't have to do often enough to bother with any stamina stats.

    Also, the shields last longer and PVE enemies are predictable in patterns enough that you should have the shield up before the one-shot is animating so you don't need to "emergency shield!" like a completely unprepared noob.

    Not all bosses have tells, and some of them are super short. Plus you're ignoring how mag builds don't have enough stamina to consistently roll dodge and block like that in a longer fight.

    If the tells are too short to block then they're too short to cast a damage shield either.

    Also, I never roll anyway. I play magicka in melee range and just step out of cones. If a boss has a huge blast I can't just walk out of then I block or stay out of melee range. I just play melee range to keep them in my ground AoE since running around makes that useless.
    Block is cheap enough to block often and keeps you alive, especially with block cost reduction champion points.

    If you don't block then you need to learn to do so. If you don't, you will be just like the noobs dying to Tidewrack's AoE splash in Summerset at geysers when he is very easily soloable.
  • Hexys
    Hexys
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    NO
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  • Galalin
    Galalin
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    Sorcs now you know what DK's feel like every time they have been gutted. I feel your pain and as much as I hate you dirty sorcs I am hoping the leave the crit and ditch the stupid 1 sec cast time. That 1 sec is a death sentence in PvP.
  • Altyrann
    Altyrann
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    I barely PvP but use harness extensively in harder PvE content. In almost all of those cases I use it as a way of protecting myself when things get a little chaotic. A one second cast time in those situations would entirely defeat the purpose.
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    No. Being able to crit shields? Okay. Stacking on resistance? Okay, even though it does nothing for light armor users and buffs stam and heavy users more. Cast time? No.

    If ZOS wanted to make spamming them more difficult, all they had to do was increase the cost. In the case of harness reduce magicka return on it or remove it for some other benefit, maybe minor vitality while harness is up and/or minor protection would have been better to put on it then mag return in the first place. But instead they go with a 1 sec cast time...

    Edited "annulment" to "harness"
    Edited by Kadoin on September 18, 2018 9:38AM
  • Aznox
    Aznox
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    I think people are over-reacting a lot regarding the balance consequences of this change.
    - Cannot be interrupted while CC immune (look at me spamming Dark Deal on live)
    - Resistances + Crit resist has the potential to vastly overweight the introduction of crit to shield

    Basically this just allows opponent to save their CC/interrupt for Shield cast, giving them a 4sec window to burst you, making for a more interesting fight than just overcoming your magicka sustain.

    However i can understand players not liking the introduction of cast time abilities in core toolkit, from a gameplay perspective.
    Edited by Aznox on September 18, 2018 10:05AM
    Aznox
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  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    Aznox wrote: »
    I think people are over-reacting a lot regarding the balance consequences of this change.
    - Cannot be interrupted while CC immune (look at me spamming Dark Deal on live)
    - Resistances + Crit resist has the potential to vastly overweight the introduction of crit to shield

    Basically this just allows opponent to save their CC/interrupt for Shield cast, giving them a 4sec window to burst you, making for a more interesting fight than just overcoming your magicka sustain.

    However i can understand players not liking the introduction of cast time abilities in core toolkit, from a gameplay perspective.

    Can I interrupt someone spamming absorb magic or defensive posture? Can I interrupt blazing shield users? Can I interrupt igneous shield users? Bone shield? Can I stop proc sets from putting damage shields on constantly?

    Do you see the problem now? No consistency to the change. If the idea is that shields be more proactive defenses, why would they ignore all of them but two? Why would they leave armor sets with laughable conditions to proc untouched? Why leave the BEST shield absorb magic alone when its basically harness on steroids when facing a mag user or if you are an extreme healing/tank build? Makes little to no sense, except to kill light armor.

    Adding cost reduction to light armor is also a joke. A better change would be additional "1 sec" roll immunity and/or break free considering light armor defenses are a joke without shield AND most light armor builds can barely roll and break free now and won't be doing it much more with the cost reduction unless they cut heavily into their damage. Then light armor users may not have to worry about shield changes at all and can play more proactively and reactively like the dev team probably envisions. Without it, it's simply a nerf.
  • Shorayel
    Shorayel
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    Not At all.

    I would be interestered how many of people who voted for yes are playing nightblade in pvp...
    PC-EU and NA
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  • notyuu
    notyuu
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    No, There are better ways of balancing them.
    And this is comming from somebody who hates sheilds...
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