Light Attacks and DPS

Gnortranermara · September 2018

I don't think a central mechanic of the game should be thrown away like that.

A more creative solution would look something like this:

Greatly reduce the damage of light attacks.
Greatly increase the damage of weapon enchantments.
Make light/heavy attacks the only thing that can proc a weapon enchantment.

Now you have a choice. You only need a light attack once every 4 seconds to proc a damage enchantment. If you enjoy weaving, run infused. If not, run something else.

This would decrease the necessity of light attacks for those who don't like them and simultaneously give those who do a good reason to keep weaving.

Yes, total DPS would take a hit since backbar enchants would stop proc'ing from DOTs, but who cares? Everybody is so overtuned anyway we could use some nerfs. Power creep is out of control.

ZeroXFF · September 2018

jcm2606 wrote: »

Still, as I said in my other comment, I 100% agree that light attacks shouldn't contribute as much DPS as they do currently, what with the various buffs in Summerset. Keeping the resource/damage scaling increase (as it makes theorycrafting easier and makes the game just a bit more consistent), but reverting everything else to the way it was pre-Summerset, and changing skills and sets that only work with light attacks to also work with heavy attacks (maybe with a slight damage buff, since heavy attacks take longer to perform), is what I would like to see happen, but Zenimax has already made these changes, and they probably won't go back on them.

But I 100% disagree with you guys saying that light attack weaving isn't fun or "dynamic". For starters, read my other comment. For me, light attack weaving, or animation cancelling in general, really, helps to improve the "flow" of combat. ESO's animations are very rigid, which when combined with a fast paced combat system (a 1 second GCD is pretty fast for an MMO) just leads to combat feeling clunky, which is where animation cancelling and, by extension, weaving can help.

Performing a rotation with weaving is no more or less dynamic than performing a rotation without weaving: at the end of the day, you're still performing a completely static sequence of skills/actions. If you want dynamic gameplay, try playing with a dynamic rotation, where you prioritise more important skills/buffs/debuffs over less important ones. Nightblades are basically built for dynamic rotations, to get as many Grim Focus procs off as you can. Watch gameplay of top tier Nightblades clearing progression runs in trials, you'll notice there isn't a completely static rotation that they're using, they kind of just refresh what they see is about to run out, and prioritise light attacks + spammable + Grim Focus.

Light attacks don't cancel skill animations, so they don't in any way improve the "flow". And nobody is arguing for blanket removal of animation cancelling.

I wouldn't mind though if they shortened the longer animations to the length of the GCD, so there wouldn't be a need to do any animation cancelling while doing a normal DPS rotation. Animation cancelling should only allow you to go in defensive mode without having to wait for the GCD, but it shouldn't be part of the rotation of every raider doing vet trials, it should be irrelevant in terms of maximizing dummy parses.

jcm2606 · September 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Still, as I said in my other comment, I 100% agree that light attacks shouldn't contribute as much DPS as they do currently, what with the various buffs in Summerset. Keeping the resource/damage scaling increase (as it makes theorycrafting easier and makes the game just a bit more consistent), but reverting everything else to the way it was pre-Summerset, and changing skills and sets that only work with light attacks to also work with heavy attacks (maybe with a slight damage buff, since heavy attacks take longer to perform), is what I would like to see happen, but Zenimax has already made these changes, and they probably won't go back on them.

But I 100% disagree with you guys saying that light attack weaving isn't fun or "dynamic". For starters, read my other comment. For me, light attack weaving, or animation cancelling in general, really, helps to improve the "flow" of combat. ESO's animations are very rigid, which when combined with a fast paced combat system (a 1 second GCD is pretty fast for an MMO) just leads to combat feeling clunky, which is where animation cancelling and, by extension, weaving can help.

Performing a rotation with weaving is no more or less dynamic than performing a rotation without weaving: at the end of the day, you're still performing a completely static sequence of skills/actions. If you want dynamic gameplay, try playing with a dynamic rotation, where you prioritise more important skills/buffs/debuffs over less important ones. Nightblades are basically built for dynamic rotations, to get as many Grim Focus procs off as you can. Watch gameplay of top tier Nightblades clearing progression runs in trials, you'll notice there isn't a completely static rotation that they're using, they kind of just refresh what they see is about to run out, and prioritise light attacks + spammable + Grim Focus.

Light attacks don't cancel skill animations, so they don't in any way improve the "flow". And nobody is arguing for blanket removal of animation cancelling.

I wouldn't mind though if they shortened the longer animations to the length of the GCD, so there wouldn't be a need to do any animation cancelling while doing a normal DPS rotation. Animation cancelling should only allow you to go in defensive mode without having to wait for the GCD, but it shouldn't be part of the rotation of every raider doing vet trials, it should be irrelevant in terms of maximizing dummy parses.

They do, however, help the animations themselves transition from one skill to the next, which is really my problem with the animations. They absolutely suck for transitioning from one skill to the next, making combat feel really clunky. While the skills cancel most of the light attack animation, part of the animation is still there, which helps.

I'm also not saying that anybody is arguing for a blanket removal of animation cancelling, just that weaving helps the "flow" of combat, for me.

RavenSworn · September 2018

Actually, what if both heavy and light attacks for certain weapons are changed, to accommodate both playstyles?

Dual wield, one hander and shield, fire and frost staff - light attacks deal more damage, heavy regain more resources.

Two handers, bows, lightning and restoration staff- heavy attacks deal more damage but regains lesser resources than usual. Light attacks then returns a bit more resource.

That way, you can incorporate both if you use, say a fire and lightning staff, a heavy attack lightning staff can still pull off good numbers. This way, you can make some of the sets viable again. (not that it wasn't in the first place but I digress).

The idea of having light attack weaving has been in the game since the start but its only after summerset that light attacks were given priority for dps.

Turelus · September 2018

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

These are the kind of replies which frustrate me on this issue, because every time a discussion comes up and people are civil and trying to explain their issues we just get mocked and told to L2P.
There is frustration because in the past everyone who did light attack weaves and was good at it had a very strong advantage, but that wasn't a design choice content and skills were balanced around. Now however the game is moving in that direction, with skills and potentially content assuming this is the norm and not the exception.
As an example there are already people who want to make Crystal Frags work like Merciless Resolve, if that change came it would make yet another skill (and potentially class) heavily dependent on the mechanic.
Not everyone is asking for the games content to be easy mode, not everyone is asking for LA weaving to be removed, only that other options can be viable again and that development doesn't push everything into this one style of gameplay.

In regards to Skyrim and other TES games then yes we did mostly basic attacks, however enemies in there didn't have health bars meaning we had to stand beating on them for 10 minutes.

aeowulf · September 2018

The LA meta is a style of game play that's more suitable to younger faster people with more play time to 'git gud'. If a game wants to go down this route of forced LA weaving, it makes it more difficult for those at the other end of the scale - i.e. those with larger wallets who are more likely to spend because of less play time due to work. Just something else to think about really.

mojomood · September 2018

Light attacks aren't going anywhere. But in my opinion, ZOS got it backwards.

Light attacks are buffed for damage and heavies for resource restore, but it should be the other way around. NBs are so good in PvE because they can sustain on a light attack rotation. That should have been the way for ALL classes, with nightblades having it slightly better sustain and nice heals. Light and Heavy attacks should equal sustain.

Heavies should do more damage, with melee heavies having the highest damage. This means a heavy rotation could be more dps, but light attack rotation is better sustain because of no charge time. It also means melee characters can pull more dps than ranged, which supports a risk/reward of being 5 meters from the boss.

This means tanks can sustain much easier, allowing more of a focus on being tanky (too many squishy tanks in PUG dungeons atm), or providing better debuffs, etc. This will help support classes that dont have a way to sustain while blocking, leveling the playing field with the current DK tank meta.

CP PvP right now is so tanky anyway that it can handle more damage from heavies.

Bonus thought, its immersion friendly too when you heavy attack for a sizable chunk of damage instead of a big resource restore.

What was so bad about it from pre-Morrowind is not the same now. The CP ceiling changes gradually, but CP 630 vs CP 780 is a noticeable difference.

swirve · September 2018

Combat mechanics is one of the weakest parts in ESO... go to any other game and it becomes apparent.

SilverWF · September 2018

Probably, I would like it too - when ZOS would make a heist on some Bank, grab money there and finally would be able to rent a gateway server in the Russia

Until that - this is very poor game design, that causes at least 20% of my LAs to just lost somewhere inside of their perfect netcode.

Joker99 · September 2018

aeowulf wrote: »

The LA meta is a style of game play that's more suitable to younger faster people with more play time to 'git gud'. If a game wants to go down this route of forced LA weaving, it makes it more difficult for those at the other end of the scale - i.e. those with larger wallets who are more likely to spend because of less play time due to work. Just something else to think about really.

Those people shouldn’t have to worry about getting good if they can’t spend time on the game anyway. If you only have like 2-3 hours a day to play your chances of getting into a real progression group are basically non existant, as for the other group content, it can be completed with around 30k which is achievable on any class and spec. This is people complaining that they can’t get their “epeen” as big as other people’s “epeen” and no argument can say otherwise.
Don’t like the game design? Don’t play, it easy as that. Nothing will change if you qq on forums while saying you would pay more if this was that, especially if it’s about something as big as LA weaving. Even before, in pre Summerset, LAs were a very big source of damage, and no rotation like people are suggesting here even came close.

Turelus · September 2018

Joker99 wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

The LA meta is a style of game play that's more suitable to younger faster people with more play time to 'git gud'. If a game wants to go down this route of forced LA weaving, it makes it more difficult for those at the other end of the scale - i.e. those with larger wallets who are more likely to spend because of less play time due to work. Just something else to think about really.

Even before, in pre Summerset, LAs were a very big source of damage, and no rotation like people are suggesting here even came close.

Sure, but they also were not a required mechanic and had skills and game design balanced around them. It was that extra thing good players did to stand out.
Now it's slowly becoming a requirement, which is why we see threads like this as resistance to it.

I have no doubts the trend will continue and more skills, sets and balance will be developed around LA weave as a core mechanic.

Also FFS stop telling people "don't like it, leave" this is not a good solution, and people who have been here since launch don't want to leave a game they love. *grumble grumble*

Xvorg · September 2018

Turelus wrote: »

.

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Repetitive Strain Injury is the result of poor use in connection with constant repetition. The spacing of light attacks in an optimal rotation is not as infrequent as the spacing of spaces between words, this repetition opens the gate for injury if proper breaks and rests are not taken.

I believe this accounts for the occurrence of finger pain complaints in relation to PVE dps, I have had some pain with it and I have spoken to many others who have had the same experience. Only in relation to PVE dps within ESO have I seen this complaint arise. It isn't widespread from my interaction, and I would say it is probably less than 5-10%.

I can understand not liking the LA style of fighting, especially now it’s such a major factor to DPS but I cant figure out how having it there increases chances for RSI? If I remove LAs then I’ll just be casting my spammable more so surely then The risk is just as high as I’m still clicking a button a high number of times.

Personally I enjoy the combat in ESO compared to the other MMOs I’ve played mainly down to lack of tab targeting and combat feels to be more free flowing. LAs contribute to that and it’s such a core part of the game from resource management, ultimate regen and damage it’s not going to change. I much prefer this to after Morrowind when Heavy Attacks were more necessary for sustain and the damage boost they got.

Spamming a keyboard button doesn't cause me issues though, the only pain I get is from the repeated action of clicking the left mouse button with my index finger.
I've tried other options (keybinds, cheaper mouse, controller) but none of them felt comfortable or had other issues attached.

I am fine with LA weave being in the game and even for it to be the best choice for top tier DPS players, but at least give people a choice and not a "LA Weave or GTFO" game design path.
I was fully behind the Morrowind changes, I still kind of like the idea of light damage, heavy resources and in Morrowind I was even feeling happy with combat. However Summerset and other smaller updates this year moved it from "LA is a better choice" to "LA is the only choice" especially for the Nightblade.

I know I will just end up sounding like a broken record, but eh... I want to enjoy the game and my main character again without being forced to limit game time or suffer damage to my hand.

This

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · September 2018

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Solariken · September 2018

I like light/med/heavy attack mechanics a lot, I think they actually feel good to use.

However, I do think they have been overly emphasizing them in combat and DPS output. I don't like the recent buffs light attacks received and don't like having to manage resources with heavy attacks - makes no sense.

Turelus · September 2018

Solariken wrote: »

I like light/med/heavy attack mechanics a lot, I think they actually feel good to use.

However, I do think they have been overly emphasizing them in combat and DPS output. I don't like the recent buffs light attacks received and don't like having to manage resources with heavy attacks - makes no sense.

I've often felt that ZOS doesn't have a clear goal of what they want the games combat mechanics to be or how to achieve them, it's always been chasing and fixing/adapting to what the players are doing.

The changes to light/heavy attacks do seem to be a design choice they've locked onto and want to run with, I just don't know if they realise how many people could be left behind with this.
I'm also tired of hearing people sprout L2P and Git Gut in response to people simply not liking the design path being taken. Not everyone hates the system because they can't do it.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2018

JinMori wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Light attacking through a rotation isn't fun or dynamic, its boring, repetitive, and causes finger pain for some if not many players.

I can understand the idea behind the introduction and use of light/medium/heavy attacks, however centralizing light attacks within the global CD such that the use of light attacks with skills is essential to performing well is poor game design. I got into ESO during PC beta but that was only made possible due to an invitation from a friend, she never played the game after the beta directly because of the light attacks. Her words were: "I wand-ed my way through WoW until they wised up and got rid of it I'm not doing it again."

I say get rid of light/medium/heavy attacks and just give me another skill slot.

You know what's even more repetitive?

One button mashing, because that;s what you are suggesting, there is already some of that, at least with weaving you have something else to do other than using only keys.

Right...you're using keys + a mouse button... /facepalm

There could be more to DPS than memorizing timing and sequence of button presses. Other games manage it with visual indicators that truly require dynamic interaction for combat benefit.

This game has only has Block, Synergy, and move out of the red, with "Exploit via Off Balance' as a distant fourth.

There are no combos, other than the sequence of your rotation, to be had.

Xvorg · September 2018

Callous2208 wrote: »

Is this an "I can't animation cancel and want changes so my deeps is good also," thread disguised as a call for legitimate improvements? Because nothing brought forth so far makes a lick of sense. Op is literally stating to remove dynamics to make something more dynamic, and that somehow this dumbing down of the system will make it less boring. Throw in some useless numbers that don't support the point and an odd complaint about finger pain and I just don't know what's going on around here anymore.

No... as far as I understand, people is asking for pre-Summerset LA system, were you were not forced into LA to get decent DPS. Now is mandatory doing that and it can be a reason to get injuries on your index finger. I think that's not the idea.

Apart from that, the new design killed several builds, starting with HA shock staff DK/Sorc. Not to mention StamDK, that in PvP relied mainly in HA to do dmg. This is the part it gets me more interested since I used to rely heavily in HA on my mDK, Sorc and mageblade.

The thing is that HA received too much punishment with the nerf compared to what LA got. LA, through weaving, allows you to put much more dmg than HA, while using not only dmg skills, but any kind of skills, for example weaving BoL, o weaving a CC on PvP. On the other hand, channeling a full HA puts you in a vulnerable position and the rewards for assuming that risk is not even a good one. Then it is fair to ask yourself, what's the point for Heavy (medium) attacks in this game? Ok, resource recovery, but that can be easily ignored if you know how to build properly... even there are skills like siph attacks that not require you to use HA to recover resources, not to mention the magickasteal debuff.

ZeroXFF · September 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Sounds like a solid argument to get rid of GCDs entirely, what could possibly go wrong there?

Danksta · September 2018

Weaving isn't mandatory. If you don't want to do it then don't. You can still complete anything in this game with out weaving.

Rungar · September 2018

what i would do is flesh out the soul line passives such that heavy attacks are properly explained as absorbing or siphoning attacks and you cant do it until you spend a point or two.

then i would overhaul light attacks completely and use that button for a select-able utility attack which would include a number of choices (choose 1 at a time) such as siphoning your lower stat or both stats at half strength, aoe sweep, debuff attack, piercing attack etc

and put all these on the global timer which could likely be reduced to .7 seconds. This way its has a useful purpose.

seems like its current purpose is to dissuade people from playing.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · September 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Sounds like a solid argument to get rid of GCDs entirely, what could possibly go wrong there?

I'm no technical expert and have no idea what that would do to the servers and clients, but I can say that we already see a healthy amount of forum posts complaining about "skills that all seem to hit at once" due to server lag. Imagine if a bunch of skills were actually able to hit at once because someone's PC is faster than yours. Global cool-downs are necessary to prevent (or at least mitigate) unfair advantages going to players with better ISP connectivity, faster processors, and closer proximity to servers.

Granted, if you always play with 400+ ping and are using an integrated graphics card with a 7-year-old processor and 2GB of DDR3, global cool-downs won't save you from getting wrecked in PvP. But that's beside the point.

BretonMage · September 2018

Tbh, this whole heavy attacks regenerate resources thing was highly artificial and contrived. One would normally and instinctively expect a heavy attack to, you know, deal more damage.

I think they should increase the damage for heavy attacks to give people the choice to HA when their fingers start to cramp up (as mine do regularly).

ZeroXFF · September 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Sounds like a solid argument to get rid of GCDs entirely, what could possibly go wrong there?

I'm no technical expert and have no idea what that would do to the servers and clients, but I can say that we already see a healthy amount of forum posts complaining about "skills that all seem to hit at once" due to server lag. Imagine if a bunch of skills were actually able to hit at once because someone's PC is faster than yours. Global cool-downs are necessary to prevent (or at least mitigate) unfair advantages going to players with better ISP connectivity, faster processors, and closer proximity to servers.

Granted, if you always play with 400+ ping and are using an integrated graphics card with a 7-year-old processor and 2GB of DDR3, global cool-downs won't save you from getting wrecked in PvP. But that's beside the point.

Sounds like a solid argument to put light attacks on the same GCD. Thanks for arguing my points.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · September 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Sounds like a solid argument to get rid of GCDs entirely, what could possibly go wrong there?

I'm no technical expert and have no idea what that would do to the servers and clients, but I can say that we already see a healthy amount of forum posts complaining about "skills that all seem to hit at once" due to server lag. Imagine if a bunch of skills were actually able to hit at once because someone's PC is faster than yours. Global cool-downs are necessary to prevent (or at least mitigate) unfair advantages going to players with better ISP connectivity, faster processors, and closer proximity to servers.

Granted, if you always play with 400+ ping and are using an integrated graphics card with a 7-year-old processor and 2GB of DDR3, global cool-downs won't save you from getting wrecked in PvP. But that's beside the point.

Sounds like a solid argument to put light attacks on the same GCD. Thanks for arguing my points.

"There should be no global cool-downs" and "light attacks should also follow global cool-downs" are two different arguments, neither of which I argued for. I'm not sure what's lapsing in your reading comprehension skill, but both of those are bad ideas and having explained already why "no global cool-downs" is a bad idea, I'll go ahead and explain why light attacks following GCDs is also a bad idea.

DPS for everyone (everyone with skill, anyway) would drop across the board. Some content in this game is a DPS race (execute phases in trial bosses, for example). If everyone were to take a 15-25% DPS hit (some builds obviously are more reliant on light attack weaving as DPS boosts, whereas some are less reliant or even use heavy attacks instead [though this is admittedly less common]), then some groups which are currently able to clear some veteran content would no longer be able to. The workaround for this would be if ZOS were to decrease the health, or dumb-down the mechanics and damage output of some bosses. Since that is a hefty undertaking for a development team that is devoted to pushing out new content regularly, and since so few people are complaining about light attack weaving as you are, it is probably not on the priority list at all.

If the system were like this, granted, I wouldn't leave the game. I just appreciate what light attack weaving dose for DPS, and I appreciate that (even though it is easy to learn and doesn't take much time) it is an investment of time and effort that shows a player is willing to work for spots in those scoreboard trial runs. You don't have to agree with me, that's your prerogative. But at the end of the day, light attack weaving is not game breaking, most content can be cleared without it, and not nearly enough people agree with you to make a difference. That's where we are on this issue.

EDIT: By the way, for clarity's sake, my point is that the system is fine the way it is and should not be changed. I feel this is necessary to point out because you seem to think that the only two options in this debate are "get rid of GCDs" or "make LAs follow GCSs" and the issue is not as binary as you would try to lead other readers to believe.

ZeroXFF · September 2018

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Sounds like a solid argument to get rid of GCDs entirely, what could possibly go wrong there?

I'm no technical expert and have no idea what that would do to the servers and clients, but I can say that we already see a healthy amount of forum posts complaining about "skills that all seem to hit at once" due to server lag. Imagine if a bunch of skills were actually able to hit at once because someone's PC is faster than yours. Global cool-downs are necessary to prevent (or at least mitigate) unfair advantages going to players with better ISP connectivity, faster processors, and closer proximity to servers.

Granted, if you always play with 400+ ping and are using an integrated graphics card with a 7-year-old processor and 2GB of DDR3, global cool-downs won't save you from getting wrecked in PvP. But that's beside the point.

Sounds like a solid argument to put light attacks on the same GCD. Thanks for arguing my points.

"There should be no global cool-downs" and "light attacks should also follow global cool-downs" are two different arguments, neither of which I argued for. I'm not sure what's lapsing in your reading comprehension skill, but both of those are bad ideas and having explained already why "no global cool-downs" is a bad idea, I'll go ahead and explain why light attacks following GCDs is also a bad idea.

DPS for everyone (everyone with skill, anyway) would drop across the board. Some content in this game is a DPS race (execute phases in trial bosses, for example). If everyone were to take a 15-25% DPS hit (some builds obviously are more reliant on light attack weaving as DPS boosts, whereas some are less reliant or even use heavy attacks instead [though this is admittedly less common]), then some groups which are currently able to clear some veteran content would no longer be able to. The workaround for this would be if ZOS were to decrease the health, or dumb-down the mechanics and damage output of some bosses. Since that is a hefty undertaking for a development team that is devoted to pushing out new content regularly, and since so few people are complaining about light attack weaving as you are, it is probably not on the priority list at all.

If the system were like this, granted, I wouldn't leave the game. I just appreciate what light attack weaving dose for DPS, and I appreciate that (even though it is easy to learn and doesn't take much time) it is an investment of time and effort that shows a player is willing to work for spots in those scoreboard trial runs. You don't have to agree with me, that's your prerogative. But at the end of the day, light attack weaving is not game breaking, most content can be cleared without it, and not nearly enough people agree with you to make a difference. That's where we are on this issue.

EDIT: By the way, for clarity's sake, my point is that the system is fine the way it is and should not be changed. I feel this is necessary to point out because you seem to think that the only two options in this debate are "get rid of GCDs" or "make LAs follow GCSs" and the issue is not as binary as you would try to lead other readers to believe.

And my point is, if we use your argument for keeping light attack weaving, we can get rid of all GCDs altogether. It's a stupid mechanic, just admit it. The DPS output can easily be fixed by buffing something else, and it would also bring the floor and the ceiling closer (the thing that the devs actually try to do, and the thing that would be VERY welcome in PUGs).

Itoq · September 2018

I suspect that many players calling for reducing the importance of LA weaving would be nearly as satisfied if the GCD was somewhere around .1 to .3 of a second longer as if LA weaving were removed altogether.

I also suspect that the servers would be more responsive as well (e.g. would reduce instances of multiple skills seeming to land at once client side and would help reduce cases of missing audio and/or visual cues) and maybe even borked CC effects would be improved.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2018

GCD's not going away anytime soon for a few different reasons.

First, process-wise, it would then require each skill to have and monitor its own timer (and most of these would be changed to match the timing of the GCD anyway, effectively changing little in the overall timing of skills). This would require a lot more processing to achieve essentially the same effect.
Second, the GCD is there, not so much to limit DPS as it is to limit net traffic. Each skill press requires net traffic to and from server, and we already know how great the server is at recognizing actions as it is now. Limiting skill fire to 1 per GCD effectively limits the required bandwidth for combat actions, which in turn limits the amount of processing server side.
Third, even if the processing power were available to do this, it would favor low latency clients and be a great disadvantage to higher latency clients (even worse than now.)
Fourth, burst would go way up, sustain would go to *** even more than in its current iteration.

It's the quickest, most basic way to try to average things out among players. They could code it to average things out even more so by making per client adjustments, so everyone would be on a more even playing field, at least as far as hardware latency (keypress speed) and net latency (ping) is concerned. I don't see this happening though.

Player #1 can manage 10 keypresses in 9 seconds and has an average ping of 90ms.
Player #2 can manage 8 keypresses in 9 seconds and has an average ping of 220ms.
Player #2's adjusted GCD is reduced by ~200ms, ~100 for ping & ~100 for hardware latency, bringing the base capaibility and responsiveness of P2's setup to closer match P1's setup.

This would have to be averaged over time, with only minor changes applied at any point, so someone doesn't try to exploit this, but it could be managed and would have some level of benefit. It would never disadvantage P1, as skill would still be a factor, of course.

It's both odd and inconsistent for many people because the one (skills) affect the other (LA's), but not vice versa. Imo, there shouldn't be the option of missed LA's unless you're blocking or dodging. Someone parsing slower will still parse slower, but they won't be punished unnecessarily by being denied the desired effect (the successful LA).

Add in that every skill and class has different AC timings, and thus LA timings, and you end up where we are now.

Combat should reward dynamics beyond "get out of the red," and that should not require memorization of subtle (often hardly visible) visual queues in a a repeated pattern, which is exactly what a rotation is.

aeowulf · September 2018

I'd much rather see LA/HA damage land at the end of the animation, let that animation be interruptible by bash/spell casting.

I am definitely of the opinion if the animation does not complete then the attack should not land. I think it's a bit different for casting spells where resources are consumed.

This weaving does not make the game feel more fast paced - it 'felt' faster 4 years ago even though DPS was way lower and weaving was not a thing...

Elsterchen · September 2018

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Light attacking through a rotation isn't fun or dynamic, its boring, repetitive, and causes finger pain for some if not many players.

I can understand the idea behind the introduction and use of light/medium/heavy attacks, however centralizing light attacks within the global CD such that the use of light attacks with skills is essential to performing well is poor game design. I got into ESO during PC beta but that was only made possible due to an invitation from a friend, she never played the game after the beta directly because of the light attacks. Her words were: "I wand-ed my way through WoW until they wised up and got rid of it I'm not doing it again."

I say get rid of light/medium/heavy attacks and just give me another skill slot.

To each their own, but if zos ever implements the same (exeptionally) boring combat mechanics as wow, it'll be the day i grab my boots and move on.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO · September 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SammyFable wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold. To all those claiming their inability or disliking of weaving locks you out of the game, what are you trying to play? Who prevents you from doing so? This game is most likely 90%+ just questing. Want to do that? That's fine, no weaving necessary, just lay some dots and use a spammable. Do you want to pvp? Sure, do it without weaving. You might not be as successful as others but you can surely do it. Dungeons? Yep, you're fine. Trials? No problem. Mastering the hardest content the game has to offer with little to no effort, flawlessly? Well, there's always tanking.
@OP Tell me how it's more interesting to press one button a second than pressing two buttons a second. Or let me phrase it like this, is it more interesting to spam buttons 1-5 or timing the key strokes with a LMB press?
I can understand the point for consoles, the RT button doesn't seem to be a good choice for LAs, it should be remapable.
Another thing, did you ever play any single player TES games? In those Light and heavy attacks are all you have, doesn't even matter if you use a regular weapon or a spell. There are almost no other skills, just the shouts in skyrim and racial skills.

The thread in no way references or suggests being locked out of the game. I am able and have completed virtually all game content.

Light weaving is static, it is repetitive, both of these statements are easily proven and do not rely on opinions. In my opinion static repetition is boring game-play and an indicator of poor design. In my opinion this is not a good game design to move forward with.

Removing light attack weaving from a static rotation still leaves you with a static rotation, though? It's not like you slow yourself down or outright stop using skills to weave light attacks.

12131415161718191213141516171819
12345678912345678912345678912345

Both of the above are technically static but one has significantly more static repetition than the other. The first line engages the "1" key sixteen times, the second engages the 1 key four times. That is a 75% reduction in unnecessary repetitive static button presses. One is more dynamic by comparison to the other, and its quite a big difference.

The main problem with your argument as it applies to this game's combat system is that you are ignoring the presence of global cool-downs. So the way your hypothetical number sequence would actually go is like so:

12345 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 with no light attack weaving (5 global cool-downs)
0102030405 - rotation of skills 1 through 5 where the zeros represent a light attack (5 global cool-downs)

Important to note, BOTH OF THESE TWO ROTATIONS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO COMPLETE, each being 5 seconds because that's how long the global cooldown takes to allow you to cast 5 skills.

Since the light attacks don't use a global cool-down, you get more casting in the same amount of time, whereas your example acts as though a light attack substitutes the use of a skill. Yes, it is repetitive, but it is not static (at least not as static as not using LAs). Comparatively, it is far more static to not weave light attacks than it is to weave them.

Whatever you may think about systems of numbers is fine and applicable to plenty of situations outside of ESO's combat system, I'm sure. I'm no mathematician, so I won't try to argue about the science of number sequences or the semantics of what constitutes dynamicism. What I can say definitively is that more is going on in a rotation involving light attacks, and is therefore more dynamic.

Sounds like a solid argument to get rid of GCDs entirely, what could possibly go wrong there?

I'm no technical expert and have no idea what that would do to the servers and clients, but I can say that we already see a healthy amount of forum posts complaining about "skills that all seem to hit at once" due to server lag. Imagine if a bunch of skills were actually able to hit at once because someone's PC is faster than yours. Global cool-downs are necessary to prevent (or at least mitigate) unfair advantages going to players with better ISP connectivity, faster processors, and closer proximity to servers.

Granted, if you always play with 400+ ping and are using an integrated graphics card with a 7-year-old processor and 2GB of DDR3, global cool-downs won't save you from getting wrecked in PvP. But that's beside the point.

Sounds like a solid argument to put light attacks on the same GCD. Thanks for arguing my points.

"There should be no global cool-downs" and "light attacks should also follow global cool-downs" are two different arguments, neither of which I argued for. I'm not sure what's lapsing in your reading comprehension skill, but both of those are bad ideas and having explained already why "no global cool-downs" is a bad idea, I'll go ahead and explain why light attacks following GCDs is also a bad idea.

DPS for everyone (everyone with skill, anyway) would drop across the board. Some content in this game is a DPS race (execute phases in trial bosses, for example). If everyone were to take a 15-25% DPS hit (some builds obviously are more reliant on light attack weaving as DPS boosts, whereas some are less reliant or even use heavy attacks instead [though this is admittedly less common]), then some groups which are currently able to clear some veteran content would no longer be able to. The workaround for this would be if ZOS were to decrease the health, or dumb-down the mechanics and damage output of some bosses. Since that is a hefty undertaking for a development team that is devoted to pushing out new content regularly, and since so few people are complaining about light attack weaving as you are, it is probably not on the priority list at all.

If the system were like this, granted, I wouldn't leave the game. I just appreciate what light attack weaving dose for DPS, and I appreciate that (even though it is easy to learn and doesn't take much time) it is an investment of time and effort that shows a player is willing to work for spots in those scoreboard trial runs. You don't have to agree with me, that's your prerogative. But at the end of the day, light attack weaving is not game breaking, most content can be cleared without it, and not nearly enough people agree with you to make a difference. That's where we are on this issue.

EDIT: By the way, for clarity's sake, my point is that the system is fine the way it is and should not be changed. I feel this is necessary to point out because you seem to think that the only two options in this debate are "get rid of GCDs" or "make LAs follow GCSs" and the issue is not as binary as you would try to lead other readers to believe.

And my point is, if we use your argument for keeping light attack weaving, we can get rid of all GCDs altogether. It's a stupid mechanic, just admit it. The DPS output can easily be fixed by buffing something else, and it would also bring the floor and the ceiling closer (the thing that the devs actually try to do, and the thing that would be VERY welcome in PUGs).

"Just admit it?" Like I'm in denial about something? We disagree fundamentally, there's nothing I'll "admit" to you because I actually like light attack weaving and animation cancelling.

The DPS output adjustment that you think can be fixed by "buffing something else" would have to be buffing everything else because if they only buff spammables or AOEs or whatever, then it will immediately and unnecessarily imbalance every build style.

The devs are most certainly not trying to bring the floor and the ceiling closer together. They are trying (primarily) to balance the classes in game and make sure that DPS capabilities are as close to uniform as possible across class lines (they aren't doing a good job of it, per the last round of PTS patch notes, but theoretically, that is their goal). This is evidenced by the introduction of more challenging content, and the fact that they aren't changing the level of difficulty in existing content. Ever wonder why DLC dungeons are harder? It's because they are made for end-game players who are already very experienced and have top-tier gear and are bored of running CoH I. This stands in stark contrast to your assertion that they want to "bring the floor and ceiling closer." The same goes with the craglorn trials, which are universally agreed to be easier than MoL, or HoF.

"...that would be VERY welcome in PUGs)." Ah, now we get to the root of your problem. You play with PUGs, and you hate them because they aren't good, and you want everyone to have a "push this to win" button. Well on that issue, you and I will never see eye to eye. Skill in this game, as with skill in anything, requires effort to be put in and practice. The way that manifests itself in ESO's combat system is with animation cancelling and light attack weaving, but I suspect that you'd be happy with PUGs just filling their roles and wearing matching sets, and not trying to heal with a 2h maul.