New PVP zone in the Reach - idea for possible Chapter

Vicarra
Vicarra
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Preamble/Overview
I would truly love to see the Western Skyrim zones released as a single large pvp zone, where players zone in and choose to either play on the side of Reachmen or the side of the Nords (irrrespective of their chosen alliance). I don't know how legitimate, lore-wise, it would be to have DLC zones where "we" slowly take back the Reach, given how in this part of the timeline it is ruled by the Despot of Markarth, but I would dearly love to be able to run around some of my favourite areas from Skyrim, and I think it has the potential to be an interesting mechanic. It would also be an ideal way to encourage small-group play that is so discouraged in Cyrodiil by the prevalence of zergs.

Essentially, I am thinking along the lines of the monster PVP that existed in LotRO. Players can port into the map at any time, and either choose to be Reach, Nord, or Don't Care. The Don't Cares can be dynamically assigned to equalise numbers if required, but Nord by default. There could be achievements, titles and dyes, etc, associated with both sides and players could choose freely to play on one side or the other, with a 1hr timer for switching. Numbers should be carefully managed so that Reachmen players do not outnumber Nords (since these will just be regular players).

The Reachmen
Reachmen are, essentially, monsters, with unique abilities. They should be, in my view, a bit overpowered to account for the fact that no one likes Reachmen because they stink of troll fat and live in the mud they will probably have smaller numbers (or should have). Increased rank in Reachmen skill line allows one to unlock different kinds of Reach monsters that they can choose to play as. For example:
  1. regular Reachmen/Forsworn (who can form regular groups of no more than 12 players and will comprise the bulk of Reach players). These are the first unlocked unit. Groups led by a Briarheart get offensive bonuses against enemy camps.
  2. once certain conditions are met, players can play as undead Briarheart soldiers.
  3. eventually, with high enough reputation, players can choose to play as Hagravens. Although squishy, they can form groups with up to three Briarhearts, who gain combat bonuses from being in proximity to the Hagraven, and take a portion of the damage from the Hagraven shared amongst themselves (so the Hagraven is basically a buffer and debuffs the enemies, the Briarhearts protect the Hagraven and deal damage). Hagravens can't group with regular Reachmen, but regular Reachmen can benefit from the debuffs applied to enemies. Hagravens can help defend Objectives by summoning giant plant tentacles, but can't group or otherwise join combat if they do this.
  4. players could also, by obtaining certain achievements, unlock the ability to play as actual monsters such as frost trolls, minotaurs, giants and mammoths that can roam in certain regions where they can basically act like wandering raid bosses. These could be time-limited play to, say, 2-hour slots, and number limited on the map so that we don't have a map full of mammoths. Players who qualify to play as one of these monsters could be randomly selected according to whoever is in the map at the time, and offered the option to switch from their current character to a monster. If they choose not to, the game selects another qualifying player at random.

In the same way that Hagravens are sort of leaders for the Reach, players on the Nord side would also be able to unlock skills that provide equivalent ranks, from footsoldier, to Housecarl, to Thane, according to their glorious service. Bonuses to leading groups as one of the higher ranks would apply in the same way as for the Reach. A special class of "scout" could exist on both sides. They would have bonuses to stealth and movement speed and have the ability to spot traps. They could receive quests to submit reports that would uncover the fog of war on locations they have scouted for all members of their faction.

PVP currency
Reputation is the currency, and this can be gained for each side by capturing, building and defending Objectives, leading raids against enemy camps, killing enemies etc. Reputation can be used to purchase skills and abilities (for the Nords), and monster classes (for the Reach). Reputation can also be used to purchase small houses (such as Skyrim-style crumbling forts, a tower, a dwemer ruin, a nord tomb) provided certain other achievements are obtained, unique furnishings from each side, costumes or style pages etc. Basically in the same way as AP can be used currently.

Objectives
Objectives should be smaller than the keeps of Cyrodiil, and given the terrain, siege weaponry is not feasible (except arguably hot oil). Instead, Objectives should be defensible positions (e.g., clearings - on top of small crags, inside gullies, small ruined forts and towers) that are marked with glowing markers to indicate they can be captured. They can be captured by building up defenses around the position, such as log spikes, bone chimes and pit traps. Pit traps can be used to "capture" Nords. If a Nord is captured in one of these traps, if there is a Hagraven nearby they can turn them into a Briarheart to force them to temporarily fight on the side of the Reach (10 minutes or until death?). If they die, they respawn back on their own side.

Fortifications
The longer an Objective is held by one side or the other, the larger it has the potential to become, with tents, campfires, etc and NPCs gradually increasing in number, depending on how many resources are put into it by players (stone, wood, leather etc - since leather is so readily available and basically worthless, this would give it some value). For example:
  1. As soon as captured, a firepit appears in the centre. This is the interactable that lets players build up the fortifications.
  2. For the first 10 minutes after capture, players can build log spikes (to circle the camp, let's say this takes 20 logs) by adding logs to the firepit. This can be done from the quickslot bar, in the same way as repairing a keep door. Each stack of 5 logs makes one "fence" of fire-blackened sharpened fence poles.
  3. In the first 30 minutes after capture, players can add food to the fire (let's say fish, since they are also worthless). Each stack of 10 fish generates one NPC to patrol inside the radius of the camp. Players can also craft traps when inside the camp that can be placed within a certain radius outside of the campfire. (tripwires, bone chimes etc). The number of traps that can be placed depends on the size of the camp.
  4. After the first 30 minutes, every hour that the camp is held, increases the potential size. At camp size 2 (after the first 30 minutes) players can double the size of the camp by adding double the number of logs (let's say 40). At this point, leather can also be added to create tents. Tents can house up to 5 NPCs, so at camp size 2, 1 tent can be placed (requiring 10 leather), and more NPCs can be generated up to that maximum by adding more fish, as before. And so on. NPCs will defend the camp and give defensive bonuses if players fight with them.
If your enemies capture your camp, they can choose to either raze it to the ground (preventing it from being recaptured by you for some length of time), or leave the fortifications in place and add their own on top.

Y tho?
What is the purpose of Objectives, I hear you ask? Well, recall from Skyrim that the map also contains numerous ruins, mines and logging camps. Each of these could have a certain number of potential encampments in a certain radius of it. If a faction "owns" a threshold number of these camps, they have enough numbers in the area to hold it, and can access the ruin, or slowly gain materials from the mines or logging camps to build their fortifications in that area. Camps can only automatically benefit from these resources if they are adjacent to them, or have an uninterrupted link to a neighbouring camp. Therefore, players capturing objectives held by the enemy need to make careful strategic choices about whether it' more important to hamstring the enemy or boost themselves instead.

The map
While the Cyrodiil map has up-to-the-second news about where all the fights are happening, this is not terribly realistic and leads to zerging. I therefore propose that the map of Western Skyrim is covered by fog-of-war. You can discover Objective locations to unlock them on the map, but will only know who holds them if you actually go there and scout them. Given that the map is large, and the Objectives themselves relatively small, there should be a much larger number of them than seen in Cyrodiil (> 30). Capturing them should be a simple matter of being present for a few minutes, like capturing the flag mechanic in Cyrodiil. There is also potential to unlock the city of Markarth, either as a raid or as an IC-style sub-map, in the same way as was done with that desert raid in vanilla wow (I forget the name). Perhaps, whichever faction holds the gates of Markarth gets to assault the city, whilst the other side defends it.

Anyway, just a few ideas - let me know what you think, what you like, what you don't like, etc.

EDIT: For clarity, I just want to mention that when I say "Western Skyrim", it is not my place to decide what qualifies as Western Skyrim, but I would imagine that a map like this would not cover all of the remaining Skyrim regions. Since the Despot is based in Markarth, that is where I would imagine the Reachmen would be based, and so I would like a map that covers the Reach, perhaps the north/west part of Falkreath hold (boundaried by the Lake, perhaps), perhaps as far to the east as Rorikstead in Whiterun hold, and a bit of Southern Haafingar and western Hjaalmarch.
Edited by Vicarra on September 16, 2018 5:19PM
PAWS - Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff!

Haakon Stormblade - Nord Illusionist, Dwemer scholar, Horse Whisperer, Bringer of Storms
  • essi2
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    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.
    "The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar

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  • VaranisArano
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    I love the idea in theory, but unless PVP performance improves dramatically, the current PVP population can't support Imperial City, Battlegrounds, or more than one or two full campaigns in Cyrodiil.

    Now, if ZOS fixes PVP performance issues, we might actually get enough players back to make this or some other PVP content a possibility.
  • Anrose
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    essi2 wrote: »
    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.

    I’m not sure where you get the entitlement that the vast majority of this game should be PvE only. This game has PvE and PvP so they should get close to the same amount of “love”.

    But on topic, I think the idea is pretty cool, but I don’t like the Reachmen getting unique abilities and such because it would be hard to balance. But different siege type engines would be cool.

    I would personally love a new map to fight over as 4 years in Cyrodiil is hella boring at this point.
  • ak_pvp
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    essi2 wrote: »
    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.

    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvE.
    If you want PvE you have:

    Aldmeri Dominion
    Auridon — The second-largest island in the Summerset Isles and the location of Firsthold, one of the largest Aldmeri cities in the world.
    Grahtwood — A large region deep in the jungles of Valenwood, and the location of the Aldmeri Dominion's capital, Elden Root.
    Greenshade — A large region of western Valenwood, lush with life under its canopy with rivers coursing through the land.
    Khenarthi's Roost — A small island off the coast of Elsweyr inhabited by both Khajiit and Maormer, named for the Khajiiti goddess Khenarthi.
    Malabal Tor — A region deep in the jungles of northwestern Valenwood, where little light reaches the forest floor.
    Reaper's March — A region connecting the jungles of Valenwood and the rolling plains of Elsweyr.

    Daggerfall Covenant
    Alik'r Desert — A region along the northern coast of Hammerfell.
    Bangkorai — A region connecting the northern reaches of Hammerfell with the east of High Rock.
    Betnikh — A small island off the southern tip of High Rock, with steep cliffs and a lush, fertile interior.
    Glenumbra — A region in High Rock covering the entire peninsula that separates Iliac Bay from the Eltheric Ocean.
    Rivenspire — The northern region of High Rock.
    Stormhaven — The south-central region of High Rock.
    Stros M'Kai — A desert island off the coast of Hammerfell.

    Ebonheart Pact
    Bal Foyen — A small coastal zone neighboring Stonefalls in mainland Morrowind.
    Bleakrock Isle — A small, barren island in the sea northwest of Morrowind, just to the south of Solstheim.
    Deshaan — A region in southern Morrowind.
    Eastmarch — The easternmost hold in Skyrim.
    The Rift — The southeastern hold of Skyrim.
    Shadowfen — The northwestern region of Black Marsh.
    Stonefalls — A zone in central Morrowind.

    Other
    Artaeum — A mystical island, home to the Psijic Order
    Clockwork City — A mechanical realm created by Sotha Sil, one of the living gods of Morrowind.
    Coldharbour — Molag Bal's realm of Oblivion.
    Craglorn — A region situated in northeastern Hammerfell between Bangkorai and Cyrodiil.
    Gold Coast — A region situated in western Colovia, between Hammerfell and Malabal Tor
    Hew's Bane — A peninsula in southern Khefrem on the south coast of Hammerfell.
    Murkmire — A region situated in southernmost Black Marsh, south of Shadowfen.
    Summerset — A large island off the southwestern coast of mainland Tamriel.
    Vvardenfell — A large island located in Morrowind's Inner Sea.
    Wrothgar — A region situated in northeastern High Rock, north of Stormhaven.

    Pasted from: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Zones
    And good chunks of IC/Cyro
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Wollust
    Wollust
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    PvPers are not allowed to have anything according to some PvE people

    giphy.gif?cid=4bf119fc5b9e67ec3764664e45b04a55


    Susano'o

    Zerg Squad
  • Pastas
    Pastas
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    essi2 wrote: »
    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.

    Wy can't pvprs have new shiny things?, because you don't like it?.
    WARNING
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    Read on your own risk
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    EP
    Do'Ragash Stamdk Caius Grachus Stamden Dalyne Narus Magplar
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    PC EU
  • Vicarra
    Vicarra
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    essi2 wrote: »
    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.

    I'll ignore the jibe, and respond instead with a more detailed explanation of the aim of the idea. I think the point has been missed somewhat, so perhaps I didn't explain it properly.

    IC and BGs have their own problems, which I'm not going to derail the thread by discussing. Cyrodiil has become old and stale, and has balancing issues caused by stacks of CP and zerging. All of the current PVP environments are essentially hostile to newer players, those without PVP gear, and those without experience. Those who don't like PVP because they've had bad experiences in any of the current PVP arenas, or who prefer to focus on PVE content, resent the fact that if they want the PVE achievements in those zones, they have PVP inflicted on them by people who just want easy kills. This is what I think that my proposal can help to address.

    The main draw with a "monster play" environment is that instead of having PVE objectives and NPC monsters that you have to fight, all whilst dodging gankers who wait til you're almost dead to kill you and take all your telvar. Instead of that - you essentially turn opposing players into the NPC monsters, so that it's not you vs the mobs vs gankers. You don't need to grind specialist gear for monster characters or worry about what class/race they are or minmax yet another type of gameplay. If you use your main character, you can just use your regular gear, and regard it as PVE but against intelligent (or at least random and unexpected) behaviour from the "mobs".

    Given how Western Skyrim is essentially being fought over by the Nords and Reachmen, it would also be a lore-friendly interpretation of that ongoing battle.
    PAWS - Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff!

    Haakon Stormblade - Nord Illusionist, Dwemer scholar, Horse Whisperer, Bringer of Storms
  • starkerealm
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    Play as monsters? Yeah, that'd be a mess. If you've ever screwed around with scale modifying commands in Skyrim, or taken control of large critters via console commands there, you already know, this would be a mess in game.

    Basically, once you get over about 2m tall, or start running around on something that's not bipedal, things break, and the experience gets very uneven, unless the game was designed to handle those considerations from the beginning.
  • VaranisArano
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    Pastas wrote: »
    essi2 wrote: »
    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.

    Wy can't pvprs have new shiny things?, because you don't like it?.

    As a PVPer myself, because we can't properly fill the PVP zones we already have with a conpetitive population.

    Until that changes (until ZOS fixes PVP performance) I don't expect new PVP zones. Just new BG modes and maps.
  • Royaji
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    This sounds like one of those "cool in theory but an absolute mess to implement due to techincal and financial limitations" kind of ideas. Sounds fun but I do not see anything like that happening.
  • BigBragg
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    essi2 wrote: »
    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.

    "I don't like it so nobody should have it!" With some very determined feet stomping.

    Toy'R'Us closed. Sadly that means it's time to grow up. Variety is the spice of life, afterall. Let people enjoy different things from what you like. It really doesn't take much from you, but can bring others so much joy.
  • Tan9oSuccka
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    No thanks. I’d hate to see this particular zone wasted on PVP.

    Also, I don’t think you can dilute the already small PVP population four different ways (this, top side, BGs, IC)
  • Bruccius
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    How on earth are Reachmen monsters? They are a mongrel race, related to the Bretons and Nords primarily, but also having ties with practically every race of Tamriel. They are not monsters. The Reachmen have had a hard time under the opression of the Nords, some form of sympathy is to be expected.


    On topic though, I think that having the entirety of western Skyrim be dedicated to PvP is very much overkill. Western Skyrim has a ton of lore that is yet to be covered in ESO, and we all know that gathering lore and PvP do not go hand in hand. Limiting this zone to the Reach itself, which is already considerably large, would fit a lot better. It'd also take some of the pressure off of Cyrodiil.


    The proposed content, especially between the two factions, is far more fitting for just the Reach, or possibly the Reach and half of Whiterun, but the entirety of western Skyrim for nothing more but PvP? A waste of potential lore, which the franchise thrives on.

    Not to say that I disagree with there being new PvP zones, it'd be a welcome change. Just not so large a zone.
    Edited by Bruccius on September 16, 2018 3:51PM
  • Bruccius
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    BigBragg wrote: »
    essi2 wrote: »
    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.

    "I don't like it so nobody should have it!" With some very determined feet stomping.

    Toy'R'Us closed. Sadly that means it's time to grow up. Variety is the spice of life, afterall. Let people enjoy different things from what you like. It really doesn't take much from you, but can bring others so much joy.

    I don't see PvP players using that mentality for the PvE players in Cyrodiil...
    Edited by Bruccius on September 16, 2018 3:50PM
  • Radinyn
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    That was my suggestion like 2 years ago or sth like that
  • BigBragg
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    Bruccius wrote: »
    BigBragg wrote: »
    essi2 wrote: »
    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.

    "I don't like it so nobody should have it!" With some very determined feet stomping.

    Toy'R'Us closed. Sadly that means it's time to grow up. Variety is the spice of life, afterall. Let people enjoy different things from what you like. It really doesn't take much from you, but can bring others so much joy.

    I don't see PvP players using that mentality for the PvE players in Cyrodiil...

    ...or when new DLC quests, Chapters, Dungeons, and Trials come out.
  • Vicarra
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    Bruccius wrote: »
    How on earth are Reachmen monsters? They are a mongrel race, related to the Bretons and Nords primarily, but also having ties with practically every race of Tamriel. They are not monsters. The Reachmen have had a hard time under the opression of the Nords, some form of sympathy is to be expected.


    On topic though, I think that having the entirety of western Skyrim be dedicated to PvP is very much overkill. Western Skyrim has a ton of lore that is yet to be covered in ESO, and we all know that gathering lore and PvP do not go hand in hand. Limiting this zone to the Reach itself, which is already considerably large, would fit a lot better. It'd also take some of the pressure off of Cyrodiil.


    The proposed content, especially between the two factions, is far more fitting for just the Reach, or possibly the Reach and half of Whiterun, but the entirety of western Skyrim for nothing more but PvP? A waste of potential lore, which the franchise thrives on.

    Re: monsters - Obviously I agree that the Reachmen themselves are not monsters, but they have never been a playable race or faction. For this reason, I used the word "monsters" more in the sense of "mobs" than trying to imply they are somehow non-human. However, perhaps the fact that I'm a proud Nord who wants to see Western Skyrim liberated from Reachman control is colouring my language. My apologies. ;)

    Clearly, my original post was intended to spark conversation, which it has only partially done, since we are still living in the PVE vs PVP dichotomy where we must naturally see each other as enemies. Some people, like myself, like to do both, but are generally dissatisfied with the rigid 3-way battle approach adopted by ZOS. Taking some of the pressure off Cyrodiil is one of the things I had in mine when I proposed the above, but also, offering a PVP mode that is less frustrating and more enjoyable for those who hate the current PVP offerings, whilst also not carebear-ifying things too much for PVPers.

    The suggestion of using the Reach as this zone would be interesting, but I think that in terms of unexplored lore, there is more to be found in the Reach than in Skyrim which has had a whole single-player title devoted to it. For that reason, I'd actually like to see a PVE map of the Reach with quests and lore and so on. The other reason is that since Western Skyrim (which in my mind, is largely Markarth and the Reach but could be expanded past the Druadach mountains into the Reach proper) is currently in Reach hands and would be difficult to navigate for, and hostile to, non-Reachfolk - that this offers a unique opportunity for a different kind of game mode. It is being battled over, why not make players part of that battle?

    The main reason for not doing this as a PVE map is, as I mentioned in the OP, that there is no evidence in the lore that the Despot of Markarth is going anywhere anytime soon. I think that given the past storylines, we would expect our character to be instrumental in deposing him, but this would be a bit of a lorebreak. A monsterplay map would keep the conflict going. Although your idea of making the actual Reach into a PVE zone would be a good idea - perhaps as a reward for loyalty to the Reachmen? ;) I would certainly like to be able to explore that previously unexplored zone and get to see the Reachmen as they see themselves, instead of as the propagandists would have us see them!
    PAWS - Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff!

    Haakon Stormblade - Nord Illusionist, Dwemer scholar, Horse Whisperer, Bringer of Storms
  • Rex-Umbra
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    Please no more pve story zones new zones need to change the game not make more slow boring quests.
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • Rex-Umbra
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    Vote yes on more pvp
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • karekiz
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    I am not a PvPer. But seriously...PvPers need their own big DLC.

    I feel for you guys. As someone who loves dungeons I roll my eyes everytime I hear:

    "A dungeon DLC!? But I don't like grouping!? Why not make solo content RARRARARAR! Why isn't this like Fungal Grotto 1?!?!?! Why put mechanics!!?!?!?"
  • Anrose
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    karekiz wrote: »
    I am not a PvPer. But seriously...PvPers need their own big DLC.

    I feel for you guys. As someone who loves dungeons I roll my eyes everytime I hear:

    "A dungeon DLC!? But I don't like grouping!? Why not make solo content RARRARARAR! Why isn't this like Fungal Grotto 1?!?!?! Why put mechanics!!?!?!?"

    You.... I like you.
  • drkfrontiers
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    As a PvEr I wholeheartedly support this idea.

    I'm just starting out in Cyrodiil and I could imagine something more fun than so DLC investment in PvP.

    You have my vote!
    "One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star."
    ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
  • Sevn
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    We can't even populate the existing pvp content and you want them to add more? No. IC is a ghost town, no need for your unproven theories as to why that is, they are just that, theories. What is undeniable is that the only pvp centric content that was released is a ghost town.

    Don't tell me it's a hybrid either, there is another thread in which multiple dedicated Pvper's have stated IC is a pvp zone so pver's should buck up and stop crying about dying there or wanting to just quest there in peace.

    Numbers don't lie gamers, making dedicated content for less than 15% of the player base is a terrible business decision. Where'd I get my numbers? They are easily available to anyone on console. Trophies track everything, including how many players have even set foot in cyro, though that number is rising! It was less than 8% not long ago, though I suspect these pvp events have bloated the numbers.

    Yes I pvp, quite a bit.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
    -Hemingway
  • eso_nya
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    Im okay with it, if pvp and pve a clearly seperated.

    Grinding ap for vigor and caltrops is as much fun for a pver as grinding psijic skilline is for a pvper.
    u could prolly say the same about things like "questing in cyrodiil" and "farming dlc monster heads".
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    Next chapter as a PvP area ?! No thank you... We already have Cyrodiil that is only ever used in like 30% - the rest of its area is a wasted empty desert. I would rather see some grand overhaul fix for Cyrodiil...
  • Emmagoldman
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    essi2 wrote: »
    How about no.


    The last thing ESO needs is more zones locked behind PvP.

    If you want small scale PvP you already have BGs and IC.
    essi2 wrote: »

    So 2 pvp zones. 2. 1.........2. Put up the bat signal because three pvp zones would just be wrong.

    How many zones locked away behind pve? You already have dungeons and trials! The same arguement applies both ways. I don’t care for pve but I know people enjoy it. So zos, go on and make that crap. I hate the housing editor and view it as a massive waiste of time, but I know that people like it so make new furniture. I’m sorry to say, just because you don’t like pvp doesn’t mean that pvp content and new maps shouldn’t be created. Why do you feel ZOS should catar an entire mmo around how you want to play? Just a *tad* bit selfish. It’s like flipping out at a dive bar because they don’t have top shelf or mad at a dinner because there is no soy milk.

    I think the idea of playing as a monster is pretty cool myself.
  • Vicarra
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    Sevn wrote: »
    We can't even populate the existing pvp content and you want them to add more? No. IC is a ghost town, no need for your unproven theories as to why that is, they are just that, theories. What is undeniable is that the only pvp centric content that was released is a ghost town.

    Don't tell me it's a hybrid either, there is another thread in which multiple dedicated Pvper's have stated IC is a pvp zone so pver's should buck up and stop crying about dying there or wanting to just quest there in peace.

    Numbers don't lie gamers, making dedicated content for less than 15% of the player base is a terrible business decision. Where'd I get my numbers? They are easily available to anyone on console. Trophies track everything, including how many players have even set foot in cyro, though that number is rising! It was less than 8% not long ago, though I suspect these pvp events have bloated the numbers.

    Yes I pvp, quite a bit.

    I didn't actually offer any theories as to why IC is a ghost town, that is something that can be discussed in other threads. I made this thread as a discussion point for ideas of new types of PVP content that -could- be introduced. I think that the fact that IC is unpopular for the general population of the game is not necessarily a sign that PVP is unpopular and unwanted. I think that "the numbers" also depend on what server you're playing on. The fact that people complain frequently about lag, zerging, cheaters, and frequent disconnects and loading screens offers some insight into how people perceive PVP to be, and why many people avoid it, and the fact that these issues are continuing to go unaddressed also feeds into peoples' perception that PVP is not worth bothering with if even ZOS can't fix the issues with it. These issues are not easy to fix, but over time the lack of attention paid to PVP generally has created an air of resentment.

    Also, let's be honest, NOT releasing a new type of PVP map will not magically make IC more appealing. IC was suffering in terms of population long before BGs were released. BGs have a healthy population, given the speed at which you're able to queue in (at least on EU PC), so clearly the appetite for PVP is there and the issues in IC can't be attributed to players not liking PVP. So, there are at least a number of tangible good reasons to consider the proposed system for a large zone. Since I don't play on console I can't make any legitimate comment on console numbers.
    1. Given how the Sotha Sil experiment showed that lag can be drastically reduced when CP is disabled, part of the reason for suggesting a PVP map where at LEAST one side plays as monsters (with stats that don't depend on gear or CP and scale instead with the typical strength of players in the same way that Dolmen creatures/bosses do), lag should be far less than in Cyrodiil.
    2. Making only two factions, where one of the factions are essentially "mobs", with no PVE quests or other PVE content "locked" behind PVP, this removes the PvPvE aspect so disliked by many players. It essentially offers an introduction to PVP for PVE players that doesn't require them to grind up an FOTM character and gear it. This lowers the entry level and makes PVP accessible so they can learn how to approach and think about PVP without the current frustrations. These frustrations honestly put a hell of a lot of people off even bothering with PVP to begin with and further decreases the PVP pool.
    3. PVP players can still play the map in the same way they would in Cyrodiil, but making groups size-limited and increasing the number of objectives means that strategy will be more important than numbers, encourages players to spread out, still allows ganking and stealth as a legitimate gameplay strategy, but without the endless problems of class balancing. This would further decrease the lag that plagues Cyro when 80+ players all stack in the same spot spamming their skills.
    4. Lore objects can still be placed in the zone in the same way as Cyrodiil contains ruined buildings, lorebooks, notes, and other such objects. Being a PVP zone would not prevent lore from being explored.

    PAWS - Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff!

    Haakon Stormblade - Nord Illusionist, Dwemer scholar, Horse Whisperer, Bringer of Storms
  • ArchMikem
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    I'm guessing you're a PvPer that wandered into Falkreath Hold?

    It's kinda obvious ZOS has no intention of creating an entire new PvP zone after Imperial City. Battlegrounds was supposed to be the "expansion" PvPers were wanting, as it not only creates additional content for PvP but it's easier on ZOS to just pump out a stream of arena maps. Win/Win.

    And if we're going to entertain the idea of a new PvP Zone, it's going to be restricted to Cyrodiil as that is where the bulk of the Alliance War takes place, and that is the entire setting behind ESO's PvP to begin with, pitting players against each other base on their Alliance. (COUGHorGuild/Friend'slistCOUGHCOUGH)

    But I mean hey, you put some thought into your idea and that alone deserves kudos.
    CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • pauli133
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    Anyone expecting significant investment in PvP is going to be sorely disappointed.
  • maboleth
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    You wrote wall od text before announcing your idea first... Wasted time and effort.

    That being said, I'd love seeing the complete Reach in ESO.
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