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Please, add a veteran mode option for PvE content or "Make Tamriel dangerous again."
Karius_Imalthar
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Please, add a veteran mode option for PvE content. I enjoy playing through the PvE content but for veteran players this content is very easy. This, in my opinion, makes all the hard work of the designers, artists, and developers, frankly, boring. A lot of players can simply run/sprint/rapids through most content like delves, public dungeons, quests, etc.
How would this work?:
My idea is to add a veteran mode option for players or perhaps use the same option that is currently set on the group panel to also apply in open world/non-dungeon content. If this open is set then mobs that are triggered, spawned, or attacked by me in non-dungeons are considerably tougher. Maybe they have more health, more spell penetration, spell resistance, better tactics, or call for help (like wolves that howl that spawns adds).
What are the rewards?:
As a reward gold and/or experience is increased from these mobs. Maybe there is a slightly higher chance for purple (epic) items to drop and maybe some infinitesimally small chance that gold (legendary) items can drop.
What are the exceptions?:
Exception might be world bosses, dolmens, geysers, that are intended for multiple non-grouped people.
What about players that don't have this option enabled?:
Spawns that are triggered by them will be the same as always. A veteran player could leave them be or assist them as usual. A spawn that is triggered by a veteran player will be considerably harder. A non-vet player could choose to ignore them or assist and have a chance at reaping the rewards.
Please, give this serious consideration. It would make the game much more enjoyable, in my opinion. Thank you for reading.
How would this work?:
My idea is to add a veteran mode option for players or perhaps use the same option that is currently set on the group panel to also apply in open world/non-dungeon content. If this open is set then mobs that are triggered, spawned, or attacked by me in non-dungeons are considerably tougher. Maybe they have more health, more spell penetration, spell resistance, better tactics, or call for help (like wolves that howl that spawns adds).
What are the rewards?:
As a reward gold and/or experience is increased from these mobs. Maybe there is a slightly higher chance for purple (epic) items to drop and maybe some infinitesimally small chance that gold (legendary) items can drop.
What are the exceptions?:
Exception might be world bosses, dolmens, geysers, that are intended for multiple non-grouped people.
What about players that don't have this option enabled?:
Spawns that are triggered by them will be the same as always. A veteran player could leave them be or assist them as usual. A spawn that is triggered by a veteran player will be considerably harder. A non-vet player could choose to ignore them or assist and have a chance at reaping the rewards.
Please, give this serious consideration. It would make the game much more enjoyable, in my opinion. Thank you for reading.
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Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭inb4 " There is already an option like that, it's called " just play naked, without cp and spam equilibrium" "
I would love a veteran mode in open world .... currently it's faceroll easy.Edited by Apherius on September 16, 2018 6:13PM15 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nice try, but the developers have forsaken this course of development since One Tamriel Update.
The veteran zones with the high difficulty+waste of time+little reward was one of the major reasons why so many players quit the game early on.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince10 -
Anrose✭✭✭✭✭inb4 " There is already an option like that, it's called " just play naked, without cp and spam equilibrium" "
I would love a veteran mode in open world .... currently it's faceroll easy.
Right? Would love have to actually use my build instead of gimping myself by unassigning my CP when I want a challenge.1 -
Karius_Imalthar✭✭✭✭✭
But seriously, I am not proposing a veteran zone. I am proposing making the current content harder if, by the players choice, they choose to enable it.Edited by Karius_Imalthar on September 16, 2018 6:20PM2 -
joaaocaampos✭✭✭✭✭I've already created a topic about it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/434859/improving-one-tamriel-veteran-zones-contents
Suggestions like this go against One Tamriel, who brought together new and vet players.
Instead of creating two different versions (Normal and Veteran) of the same map, or create an entire veteran map (like Craglorn), it's better to put it all together. On the same map, you have both contents (Normal and Veteran).
Chapter Zone- Solo Quest Hubs
- 6 Delves
- 6 Group Boss
- 2 Public Dungeons
- 3 (not 6) Dolmens/Geysers or 3 Group Camps (like the Craglorn camps - Inazzur's Hold, Thunder Falls Camp and Taborra's Camp)
- Group Quest Hubs (not instanced, "Public", where you can also find other players)
- Group Delves (not instanced, "Public", where you can also find other players)
- 1 Trial-level Group Boss (with a different symbol)
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Vogtard✭✭✭They could at least adjust the character and reward scaling curve so it's more steep at higher levels, and goes beyond cp160. Should be very easy to implement too.
The overland difficulty is the reason I refuse to play Morrowind - I want to have a nostalgic, immersive experience without crippling myself. I just tried Summerset and it was awful! Clicked through the quests, skipped the dialogues, just to get it over with asap. Booooring.
If they continue like this, I'd rather have "kill 50 wolves" quests instead.0 -
Karius_Imalthar✭✭✭✭✭joaaocaampos wrote: »Instead of creating two different versions (Normal and Veteran) of the same map, or create an entire veteran map (like Craglorn), it's better to put it all together. On the same map, you have both contents (Normal and Veteran).
I agree. Mobs right now are scaled to the level of the player, correct? Why not just go one step further and make mobs, if the player chooses, CP780 instead of CP160?1 -
joaaocaampos✭✭✭✭✭Karius_Imalthar wrote: »joaaocaampos wrote: »Instead of creating two different versions (Normal and Veteran) of the same map, or create an entire veteran map (like Craglorn), it's better to put it all together. On the same map, you have both contents (Normal and Veteran).
I agree. Mobs right now are scaled to the level of the player, correct? Why not just go one step further and make mobs, if the player chooses, CP780 instead of CP160?
No. All mobs (outside of Craglorn and IC) have the same power. In fact, the players are the ones who change. If you are lvl 10 and use a full lvl 10 gear, it will have the same status as a cp 160 gear. In addition, your Health, Magicka and Stamina will also be bigger. Again, mob status never change. Of course the Craglorn mobs are stronger regardless if you are lvl 10 or CP 160.
Expanding One Tamriel beyond the CP 160 will also not work. This is also in the topic I created.
What's more, overland mobs are useless. All the mobs we face are in quest hubs. Even for grind. So the best thing to do is to create unique and separate veteran content on that map, like I said above.2 -
Karius_Imalthar✭✭✭✭✭joaaocaampos wrote: »So the best thing to do is to create unique and separate veteran content on that map, like I said above.
Then, not to be a pessimist, I don't think it will ever happen. In my opinion, they don't want to be bothered with making separate content. Ok, it my be unprecedented to have different strength mobs in the same zone but, as I proposed my original post, if something is spawned/engaged by a player in normal mode then it's a normal mob. If something is spawned/engaged by a player in vet mode then it's a tougher mob. "But what if the veteran mode player/group just runs away!?" The mob resets as usual.
I seriously think that if someone put in a small amount of creative thinking and a small amount of effort then they could do something. I know that, as a money making business, the incentive is to produce content with the least amount of effort and maximize returns (think the endless supply of skins on the same models sold in the crown store). I think that what i'm proposing wouldn't require a separation of players, separate zones, different content, etc. I'm just suggesting some additional mechanics.Edited by Karius_Imalthar on September 16, 2018 7:04PM0 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just make it imperial city enemies hard like when it launched would certainly help teach newer players to play better or gtfo
Then maybe we'd have less trash in the queue finder.0 -
joaaocaampos✭✭✭✭✭Karius_Imalthar wrote: »joaaocaampos wrote: »So the best thing to do is to create unique and separate veteran content on that map, like I said above.
Then, not to be a pessimist, I don't think it will ever happen. In my opinion, they don't want to be bothered with making separate content. Ok, it my be unprecedented to have different strength mobs in the same zone but, as I proposed my original post, if something is spawned/engaged by a player in normal mode then it's a normal mob. If something is spawned/engaged by a player in vet mode then it's a tougher mob. "But what if the veteran mode player/group just runs away!?" The mob resets as usual.
Today, if you're lvl 10 and I'm cp 160+, the mobs we find will have the same status. Because they are all the same. What changes is that you will have the same status as me, so you will also be able to kill the mob. That is, ALL mobs are cp 160. The only strongest mobs are those of Craglorn (CP 300, if I'm not wrong). Your suggestion would change the whole game and would end with the best ESO update: One Tamriel.
My suggestion so far is still the most viable. Unless there's any better.
Or we can do something between mine and your suggestion!
You know there's a difference between random mobs and quest hub mobs, right? Random mobs are not needed in any quest.
My new suggestion is this:- Random mobs will always be cp 160. After all, everyone ignores the Craglorn random mobs (unlike the Spellscar mobs, for example).
- There will be a Normal and Veteran option for: Delves and Public Dungeons. Before entering a Delve or Public Dungeon, you can choose between the Normal and Veteran versions. The reward will be blue or purple depending on the difficulty.
- The Group Boss reward will always be purple.
- I don't know what to think about the Quest Hubs. It may be the same. Normal and Veteran Quest Hubs. In that case, what changes is only gold. I don't agree with XP. Normal and Veteran should guarantee the same XP.
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Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭They could at least adjust the character and reward scaling curve so it's more steep at higher levels, and goes beyond cp160. Should be very easy to implement too.
The overland difficulty is the reason I refuse to play Morrowind - I want to have a nostalgic, immersive experience without crippling myself. I just tried Summerset and it was awful! Clicked through the quests, skipped the dialogues, just to get it over with asap. Booooring.
If they continue like this, I'd rather have "kill 50 wolves" quests instead.
That would mean a new debuff for high level players who want harder content. That is already possible today, with the usual suggestions: low level/no gear, and no CP.0 -
iiYuki✭✭✭✭✭Personally I dont want any scaling or difficulty changes but I think a veteran difficulty that has toggle on or off that also rewards more chances of better gear, more gold, exp etc would be a good idea."Play how you want... unless its not how we intended you to play in which case we'll nerf it".
- ZO$
- The ZO$ Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmUJWP_ebsQ0 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Personally I dont want any scaling or difficulty changes but I think a veteran difficulty that has toggle on or off that also rewards more chances of better gear, more gold, exp etc would be a good idea.
And this is how you get into the issue of 'trivial' in the first place
Toggle to nerf self & a clear indicator that you are nerfed, is the solution!“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy0 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think the ship has sailed on this one with the advent of One Tamriel.
What should have happened with One Tamriel is that the monsters should scale to you, not you scale to the monsters. By scaling the player to the environment, they made it MUCH harder to create challenging content for veterans. If they had scaled the environment to the player, you could continuously increase the level cap and still create an ever challenging environment.
My opinion only, which means it doesn't amount to squat - but that is how I see it. It was a very short sighted approach to a long term problem.1 -
Karius_Imalthar✭✭✭✭✭Well, regardless of the solution, there is clearly a desire for something to be added/changed to make content more interesting for veteran players. No, i'm not going to put on prisoner rags and wield a wooden stick on purpose. I've worked hard developing my character and skills and acquiring items and gear over the years and I would like to use them. However, if there was an actual difficulty setting then I would be all for it.Edited by Karius_Imalthar on September 16, 2018 8:23PM0
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joaaocaampos✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »I think the ship has sailed on this one with the advent of One Tamriel.
What should have happened with One Tamriel is that the monsters should scale to you, not you scale to the monsters. By scaling the player to the environment, they made it MUCH harder to create challenging content for veterans. If they had scaled the environment to the player, you could continuously increase the level cap and still create an ever challenging environment.
My opinion only, which means it doesn't amount to squat - but that is how I see it. It was a very short sighted approach to a long term problem.
Yes, yes, but that would not work. In addition to One Tamriel, the maximum gear cap is cp 160. So it's unlikely to expand anything in that direction. Scaling should remain unchanged.
Even so, the Craglorn mobs are stronger, right? Just bring this option to the other zones.Edited by joaaocaampos on September 16, 2018 9:04PM0 -
Karius_Imalthar✭✭✭✭✭They could even add new titles like "Danger Delver" for competing 50 delves while set for hardmode/veteran, etc or whatever. It could really boost interest in old content for the people who did it years ago.1
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Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
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Inb4 I earned everything and should be able to use it despite it being the reason I'm unhappy so I need the devs to spend time and resources to do what I refuse to do.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah, pretty much everyone is asking for this in some form or another.
The dev's have to be aware that overland content is an issue for anyone with decent CP.
I can only imagine that it's in the backlog, but not the highest priority at the moment.
Not just overland when I think about it. Base game vet dungeons are such a low risk until that hardmode scroll.Edited by Tannus15 on September 16, 2018 10:40PM0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »
What should have happened with One Tamriel is that the monsters should scale to you, not you scale to the monsters. By scaling the player to the environment, they made it MUCH harder to create challenging content for veterans. If they had scaled the environment to the player, you could continuously increase the level cap and still create an ever challenging environment.
This will never work in an open world system.
You have a level 3 character standing next to a level CP 780
How does the game decide what to make the mobs?
They would need to make the maps instanced to each and every character or group ala Guild wars 1
The only way this will ever work is with a difficulty slider on the character that nerfs or boosts the character.
.
Edited by Katahdin on September 16, 2018 11:12PMBeta tester November 20130 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »
What should have happened with One Tamriel is that the monsters should scale to you, not you scale to the monsters. By scaling the player to the environment, they made it MUCH harder to create challenging content for veterans. If they had scaled the environment to the player, you could continuously increase the level cap and still create an ever challenging environment.
This will never work in an open world system.
You have a level 3 character standing next to a level CP 780
How does the game decide what to make the mobs?
They would need to make the maps instanced to each and every character or group ala Guild wars 1
The only way this will ever work is with a difficulty slider on the character that nerfs or boosts the character.
Well, the real answer would have been to leave the zones leveled and trash the entire One Tamriel idea. I understand their thinking on it, but it has created as many problems as it has solved. The faceroll easy leveling being only one of them.
I started a new toon 3 days ago when I resubbed after almost a year hiatus. I ran through the Summerset quests and Auridon quests in about 8 hours worth of play time and with the XP scrolls I have hit LVL 50 already. It was shockingly easy and nothing overland, in delves, in the 3 public dungeons that I did, or in the quests offered ANY challenge - including the group challenges in the public dungeons. I even made it a point not to apply my CP and use only dropped or crafted gear.
I'm not sure what the answer is and I make no implication that I do, but it is going to be very difficult to keep people interested in the base game (which is about 90% of the total game) if it offers almost no challenge.
I remember when it took me a full night of pain and suffering just figuring out how to kill Dosha for the FIRST Fighter's Guild quest! I almost had an stroke trying to kill the chick for the mantle portion of the Grahtwood questline. Last night I dropped the *** in about 12 seconds. I know my personal experience with the game and its mechanics helps, but it shouldn't be without challenge.1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »
Well, the real answer would have been to leave the zones leveled and trash the entire One Tamriel idea.
.
Never going to happen
I am one of the few people that actually liked the veteran zone system they had before One Tam.
Each zone got progressively harder as you followed the story through them.
Most people hated it, the zones were mostly empty and people quit over it.
So I dont see that ever coming back.
.Edited by Katahdin on September 16, 2018 11:33PMBeta tester November 20132 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »
Well, the real answer would have been to leave the zones leveled and trash the entire One Tamriel idea.
.
Never going to happen
That's why I used past tense WOULD HAVE BEEN. It would be impossible for them to revert it back now.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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You defuff the cp780 if he activated vet mode, much the same way level scaling works now but as an debuff, player simply see the enemy having more health and doing more damage.Bouldercleave wrote: »
What should have happened with One Tamriel is that the monsters should scale to you, not you scale to the monsters. By scaling the player to the environment, they made it MUCH harder to create challenging content for veterans. If they had scaled the environment to the player, you could continuously increase the level cap and still create an ever challenging environment.
This will never work in an open world system.
You have a level 3 character standing next to a level CP 780
How does the game decide what to make the mobs?
They would need to make the maps instanced to each and every character or group ala Guild wars 1
The only way this will ever work is with a difficulty slider on the character that nerfs or boosts the character.
.
as am bonus he get better drops, now the obvious downside is that people will use this for farming.
Just the same way people farm normal 1 dungeons for weapons.
Why only city of ash and darkshade 1 and not 2
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You defuff the cp780 if he activated vet mode, much the same way level scaling works nowBouldercleave wrote: »
What should have happened with One Tamriel is that the monsters should scale to you, not you scale to the monsters. By scaling the player to the environment, they made it MUCH harder to create challenging content for veterans. If they had scaled the environment to the player, you could continuously increase the level cap and still create an ever challenging environment.
This will never work in an open world system.
You have a level 3 character standing next to a level CP 780
How does the game decide what to make the mobs?
They would need to make the maps instanced to each and every character or group ala Guild wars 1
The only way this will ever work is with a difficulty slider on the character that nerfs or boosts the character.
.
Thats kind of what I am suggesting. A slider that debuffs the character to whatever amount the player wantsEdited by Katahdin on September 16, 2018 11:48PMBeta tester November 20131 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭Karius_Imalthar wrote: »joaaocaampos wrote: »So the best thing to do is to create unique and separate veteran content on that map, like I said above.
Then, not to be a pessimist, I don't think it will ever happen. In my opinion, they don't want to be bothered with making separate content. Ok, it my be unprecedented to have different strength mobs in the same zone but, as I proposed my original post, if something is spawned/engaged by a player in normal mode then it's a normal mob. If something is spawned/engaged by a player in vet mode then it's a tougher mob. "But what if the veteran mode player/group just runs away!?" The mob resets as usual.
Right, because I am sure all people want to walk into an AOE to get one-shottted by a group of "vet" mobs that are typically normal mobs, that would be a lot of fun.
The fact is, changing the mobs would never work in an open world, there would need to be some way to change the character. Yeah, there could be some sort of switch or something, but the same people asking for a way to make things tougher are saying they don't want to gimp their character, so that doesn't sound like something devs should spend time on either since it wouldn't be used.
Besides, there already is a "vet" zone, and it's empty every time I am there. It seems tougher overland content isn't desired by many, and I'd be willing to bet as long as that zone remains empty, they're not going to take time to make other zones like it.Edited by Odnoc on September 17, 2018 12:05AM0 -
xylus289_ESO✭✭✭EDIT: typo
What about a difficulty slider that takes the "One Tamriel" feature, that scale the player to the content, and allow the players to change it according to their difficulty desire without having to enter a different instance. Then people wont have to worry about a dividing population.
It might cause issues if you can go anywhere and change the slider at any given moment. So would if; Every time you adjust it, you are required to meet a set of prerequisites - Have to be in town, (or)selected for a character independently from the character selection menu, etc
Edited by xylus289_ESO on September 17, 2018 3:23AM0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xylus289_ESO wrote: »What about a difficulty slider that takes the "One Tamriel" feature, that scales content to the player level or CP, and allow the players to change it according to their difficulty desire without having to enter a different instance. Then people wont have to worry about a dividing population.
Again in an open world system where a level 3, a level 10, a level 20 , a CP50, a CP160 can all be in the same map as a level CP780, you can not scale the content to the player. They only way is to debuff the character to make the content harderEdited by Katahdin on September 17, 2018 1:37AMBeta tester November 20131 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do wish open world content was more challenging. The combat is actually fun with a brand new character because there is a sense of danger. At max lvl you just 1 shot everything."I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4330
