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Shield Nerfs Are For Real This Time
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Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are plenty of mechanics to counter shields. If they want to add more counter play then I think it's time to remove shield breaker. Otherwise there is plenty of counterplay
Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.5 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.
noone in pvp has a 30k shield even with 3 stacked
10 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.
also whats more preemptive, shields you have to atleast case or 15k+ resist active 100% of the time1 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.
noone in pvp has a 30k shield even with 3 stacked
I have a 10k plus harness shield on my Warden. It’s very possible1 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.
Light armor offers almost no protection.
In PVP with all the penetration players have, they can negate all of the resistance.
Damage shield stacking is the only way to stay alive in many scenarios, both in PVP and in PVE.
I don't believe that the claim: "Healers are not needed due to shield stacking" is true.
Countless times healers did their job perfectly near me despite a mountain of shield stacking was up many times.
The only reasonable way to lower the effectiveness of damage shields while maintaining the survivability of Sorcerer and other Light armor users, is to significantly buff Light armor and some Sorcerer's passives for healing.
For example, Sorcerer's passive "Blood Magic" can be increased from:
Old:
"When you hit an enemy with a Dark Magic ability, you heal for 10% of your Max Health. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds."
New:
"When you hit an enemy with a Dark Magic ability, you heal for 30% of your Max Health. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds."Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.
noone in pvp has a 30k shield even with 3 stacked
I have a 10k plus harness shield on my Warden. It’s very possible
in pvp? my hardened ward is 14k out of pvp, in cyro its halved0 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.
noone in pvp has a 30k shield even with 3 stacked
I have a 10k plus harness shield on my Warden. It’s very possible
in pvp? my hardened ward is 14k out of pvp, in cyro its halved
Did you invest champion points into "Bastion" champion passive ?
Unless you play in no cp campaign.
In CP enabled campaign the average Hardened Ward should be well above 10k++.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.
noone in pvp has a 30k shield even with 3 stacked
I have a 10k plus harness shield on my Warden. It’s very possible
in pvp? my hardened ward is 14k out of pvp, in cyro its halved
Did you invest champion points into "Bastion" champion passive ?
Unless you play in no cp campaign.
In CP enabled campaign the average Hardened Ward should be well above 10k++.
no points in bastion, its not worth it when you can get so much more outta ironclad, thick skin, hardy and ele defender. 40 points in bastion is only like 9%1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »Interested to see what they do.
Currently it's relatively easy to get up to around 30-40k shield PVE / 15-20k PVP with either hardened ward or dampen magic by stacking the offensive stat (max magicka), so we are not sacrificing damage output. For the other types of damage mitigation (high resistances, frequent blocking, frequent dodge rolling, etc) there is more of a trade off for the player.
Maybe they will adjust so damage shield size scales based on max health, more of a difficult choice to spec either into defensive magicka tank vs high damage output? Or by counterplay maybe they mean some sort of new set like shield breaker?
maybe ZOS will allow them to receive crit damage but also benefit from your resistances
Hmm, could be right
Those numbers are a little ridiculous. My trials build Sorc has an Empowered Ward around 16k. It would be very selfish to run Hardened Ward in any group content, as you are removing 10% Magicka Regen from all of your allies. This shield becomes 8k in PvP, or 10k if remorphed to Hardened.
To get a 40k shield would require close to 80k Magicka. And builds stacking Necropotence, Destruction Mastery, and Mage Mundus are giving up a lot of other useful stats, like crit and penetration. Not to mention the lack of bar space after stacking Bound Aegis with Inner Light and possibly other Mages Guild skills. Even things like Arcane jewelry require giving up Swift in PvP or Bloodthirsty in PvE.3 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭They didn't say a shield rework or they are looking at shields. They said counterplay. This leads me to believe a new mech is being added something like defile will also effect shields or something like that.-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....8 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.
noone in pvp has a 30k shield even with 3 stacked
I have a 10k plus harness shield on my Warden. It’s very possible
in pvp? my hardened ward is 14k out of pvp, in cyro its halved
Did you invest champion points into "Bastion" champion passive ?
Unless you play in no cp campaign.
In CP enabled campaign the average Hardened Ward should be well above 10k++.
no points in bastion, its not worth it when you can get so much more outta ironclad, thick skin, hardy and ele defender. 40 points in bastion is only like 9%
40 points in bastion is 16.02%.
60 points in bastion 20.98%.
I didn't mean 100 points in bastion ofc since it will be pointless to invest that much into this passive.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince0 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭All I know is that these kinds of speculations prior to actual details are nonsense. Why can't people wait to actually see the changes?7 -
antihero727✭✭✭✭✭Nerfing shields but buffing LA passives will buff Magblade even more over sorc. At this point is ZOS trolling Magsorc mains. If this happens please @ZOS_GinaBruno give us a sale on race change tokens and adventure pack as a buff?Veldrn-AD Magica Sorc
Bizarro Veldrn-AD Stam Sorc
Antiherro-AD Stam DK
Antihero-AD Magplar
Aww Crit-AD Magblade
AD Since PC beta
On A lag free vacation
for the near and far future6 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »All I know is that these kinds of speculations prior to actual details are nonsense. Why can't people wait to actually see the changes?
It's not complete nonsense.
Many players know that when ZOS changes something or in other words nerf, the change is huge.
For example, Morrowind Update - changes to sustain.
While it is true that it is best to wait there is a basis for concern.Edited by Universe on September 13, 2018 9:09PMSome videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince5 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let’s hope it plays out less traumatic than it sounds!
Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wild guess: Shields will only absorb damage partially, letting some through. Some shields used to work that way at release IIRC. And it ties in with the ZOS statement about shields making heals useless.
That would be a good way of nerfing them considering shield users are straight up immune to burst and crits. Though numbers should be tuned carefully.Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 13, 2018 9:19PM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Oh no! Now you might actually have to put a heal on your bar like everyone else!
I'm looking forward to see how they intend on improving everyone's sustain. I'm curious to see what kind of changes they're doing to light and medium armor as well.
It's not about healing, it's about avoiding damage.
Magicka characters can only block or dodge 2x before hitting 0 stamina, and with no stamina regen, it's a while before they can do either again. They also don't have evasion for passive damage mitigation.
Shields are the only thing that lets magicka characters survive in endgame content.
Not quite. Endgame content is completable without shields. It's that "no one" wants to run Magicka characters without shields, because shields let you cheese mechanics and bypass damage more easily than intended.
It's going to require a different playstyle, and it's not going to be as easy. But that was part of the problem to begin with, Mag builds were requiring far less player skill than stam builds, and as a result, some groups were flat out saying that, stam couldn't clear some endgame content.
So, the only nerf that would really exclude magicka from endgame entirely would be if shields were simply removed from the game entirely, without anything to replace them.Edited by starkerealm on September 13, 2018 9:27PM5 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Im really trying hard rn not to just rage at this.......
Shields do not need counter play... there are enough counter plays for shields with cc, shield breaker, sloads, shattering blows, res drain poisons
Light armor cant work without shields.... would you expect stam to survive if you dropped there resist to 5k and what is the point of playing mag if you dont have shields, stam already pulls higher dps
Res drain, CC and sloads (all oblivion bar SB) are everyone counters.
Shattering blows are a limited counter to bastion, not even direct.
Shield breaker is BS, we all know, so remove it and instead swap to soft counters, which unlike block/dodge, has none. "Just pressure."
They need to amp up sorcs other defensive mechanics like AoD mines and movement from streak.
shield breaker kills sorcs in 3 light attacks, ill give you res drain but i dont see a single other type that game play other that light armor that cc's leave completely defenseless with 9k spell resist and 5k phys resist with no stam to break it. and percentage wise sloads effects light users significantly more than there heavy and medium counter parts as LIGHT ARMOR HAS MASSIVELY LESS HEALTH
even if they amp'd up sorcs other defenses its not compareable to 20k resist 25k health thats always active and can be used while attacking, not no mention rolldodge were they arnt even hit
Who runs around in PvP with 6k health? You get 5k health for just being in PvP.
With purple gear non buff I normally have 9-10k physical resistance without cup specced for it.
i get hit in pvp with shield breaker for 5kIm really trying hard rn not to just rage at this.......
Shields do not need counter play... there are enough counter plays for shields with cc, shield breaker, sloads, shattering blows, res drain poisons
Light armor cant work without shields.... would you expect stam to survive if you dropped there resist to 5k and what is the point of playing mag if you dont have shields, stam already pulls higher dps
Res drain, CC and sloads (all oblivion bar SB) are everyone counters.
Shattering blows are a limited counter to bastion, not even direct.
Shield breaker is BS, we all know, so remove it and instead swap to soft counters, which unlike block/dodge, has none. "Just pressure."
They need to amp up sorcs other defensive mechanics like AoD mines and movement from streak.
shield breaker kills sorcs in 3 light attacks, ill give you res drain but i dont see a single other type that game play other that light armor that cc's leave completely defenseless with 9k spell resist and 5k phys resist with no stam to break it. and percentage wise sloads effects light users significantly more than there heavy and medium counter parts as LIGHT ARMOR HAS MASSIVELY LESS HEALTH
Medium build generally has the same health as a light build. The rest is correct...I think. It was kinda hard to read
no i main a light armor mag sorc, i have 15k health, my stam guildmates at least 20 if not 25k health
That's a build issue, not specifically an issue with armor.
Do you not run any health or prismatic enchants in PvP?
nope
Then low health is partly your fault. PvP is hybrid land now since all 3 stats are of paramount importance, which means you need prismatics
It does not matter how big is your HP pool - even with a 18k+ HP you are in trouble.
For example if for any reason you left with 4k HP only - your first action as a sorc is to apply and stack shields. It is usually Hardened Ward + Healing Ward. This is already a risky business as it is a matter of milliseconds you survive or die.
Now with that shield breaking set this defense mechanism does not work. And that could be alright if there were an alternative, but there is no good alternative.
The closest alternative is to apply a stack of Hardened Ward + Healing Ward and then heal with a pet. But that's 2 global cool-downs (providing you animation cancel). That global cool-down allows exactly 2 shield breaker procs and the game-s over for the sorc unfairly.
While stamina users have plenty of options including and not limited to - roll-dodging - burst healing with rally - blocking1 -
jediodyn_ESO✭✭✭✭Shields are broken and imbalanced mechanically. Stacking, no Crit, same survival pool as damage modifier and most of the healing tree with crazy efficiency: They needed a fix.
Don’t QQ till you at least see the new system.3 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »
Hots tick for very little. You can shield up for 30k extra damage mitigation.
Shields aid survivability, heals aid recovery the two are not the same and people keep thinking they are comparable, to justify shield stacking.
If you run 3 shields your opponent has to get through them all and your hp, before your dead.
If you run heals, he only has to get through your hp and maybe a heal to kill you.
Heals are best if you survive the burst, shields are best to survive the burst.
This is due to stacking.
Stun a healer and you have to do 25k to kill them. Stun a shielded and it’s 25k plus what shields they have.
This is not rocket science. Shields are preemptive, they should never have been allowed to stack.
noone in pvp has a 30k shield even with 3 stacked
I have a 10k plus harness shield on my Warden. It’s very possible
in pvp? my hardened ward is 14k out of pvp, in cyro its halved
Yes at that’s at 49.9k max magic. I can easily get 57k+ magic and a 12k shield in PvP. I just like tri stat glyphs and permafrost more.0 -
mattaeus01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Nerf EVERYTHING! Characters wear underwear, and have clubs or stones to fight... And then nerf stones....Player 1 "You all suck, dont you know how to play this game?"
Player 2 "Huh?"
Player 1 "just run passed everything!"
Player 3 "We could just kill them on the way"
Player 4 "Why am I 89% of total DPS, one of the only ones that Qued as DPS, and yet in a group with 3 other DPS that cant seem to kill the basic mobs in a normal dungeon, and being told I suck?"
Player 1 "Whatever, GFL"
Player 1 has left the group...4 -
Slack✭✭✭✭✭More shield counterplay and light armor buff, sounds like a relative and indirect buff for wardens to me
PC EU
Betty Breeze - Magwarden
Hunts S'hitblades - Stamplar
Aschavi - Magplar0 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Finally, we have made a series of broad changes to ESO’s combat that are designed to help balance sustain across all Classes, provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities, and improve the effectiveness of Light and Medium Armor Passives."
"provide counterplay opportunities for Damage Shield Abilities"
"counterplay...Damage Shield"
GG, ZOS. Time to finally reroll Stam Sorc after 4.5 years, seeing as they somehow believe shields can't be countered already.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/54803
Guys lets not freak out here. I don't think they'll touch damage shields. They'll just add shieldbreaker as a base effect to all light attacks.PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer
Notable Completions:
vAS (72k), vMoL HM (160k), vAA HM (135k), vHRC HM, vSO HM (141k), vHoF HM (168k), vCR+3(129k), vDSA 45k, vMA 591k
Original Addons:
Lilith's Group Manager
Lilith's Lazy Hacks - Auto Recharge/Repair
Bot Scanner 2000
Lilith's Command History
Maintained Addons:
Kill Counter5 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wild guess: Shields will only absorb damage partially, letting some through. Some shields used to work that way at release IIRC. And it ties in with the ZOS statement about shields making heals useless.
This would be my preferred solution with maybe increasing standard duration to 8 seconds.0 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince10
This discussion has been closed.