frostz417 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Swift is op in terms of open world mobility and it is honestly pay to win.

It’s not pay to win, nor is it broken OP, all it does is increases movement speed which is doesn’t include any damage buff or any defensive buffs. It’s a normal trait that has its counter play. How about snaring your super fast target? What’s he going to do? Run around you to death? Run away? Nothing in this game is pay to win, just an argument noobs use because they can’t access such features. Smh I’m more than sure someone who doesn’t have summerset can just ask a crafter to craft them a specific jewlery. Or l2p

Lol it is pay to win in my opinion. And the way you comment makes me feel you spend very little time in cyro.

If you think this game is pay to win, you’re probably a low cp noob in cyro who dies a lot and finds anything as an excuse to complain.

I think the games p2w and i've been playing the game since console release.

It is pay to win, not on a gamebreaking level, but it still is pay to win. Not every set can be crafted and crafting jewelry is still too expensive. I think the main problem here is that transmuting jewelry is locked for non-summerset owners, which extremely limits their build options.

It really pains me to see that players are in such a denial that they do not want to admit what is clearly pay to win. You pay for the expansion and you get an advantage over others, No matter how little or big it is.

No it’s not pay to win. It’s a part of a DLC/expansion which is a part of the game. They add new features. Just because you can’t afford a new DLC doesn’t make the game pay to win. You still have to research the traits, farm the materials, or spend loads thousands of gold buying the material. Then you must upgrade it. Nothing pay to win about that. This game isn’t pay to win and saying added in features in DLC/ expansions as an excuse is absolutely pathetic. By no means does this give you a far superior advantage and if anything you must work to get the new feature. How it works when new content is released. You’re not going to be grated some magical “I win button” no. Swift has counter play, even if it’s OP it’s still meh. L2p and stop crying about p2w because that is by far the WORST excuse ever used.

Stop proving my point you're making things easier for me .d

''Just because you can’t afford a new DLC doesn’t make the game pay to win''

This is exactly what people said back when f2p mmorpgs was a popular thing. This is not like getting locked out of a map or battlegrounds game mode. This is people being able to specialize their builds much more than you do because they paid for it and you didn't or couldn't.

and calling l2p on this? lmao, do you mean learn to pay or are you actually that ignorant? I made a point up there and supported it with solid reasoning. Jewelry being hard to grind does not change a flippin thing. When transmuting was introduced it was not pay to win at all because even though it was expensive and limited, non paying users could still use a station in someone's house, so even though it required more effort it was not pay to win. jewelrycrafting would be also fine if transmuting jewelry would not make them bound, so people who paid for the expansion would have the ability to help the others or profit from this. Which would make it a totally fine system.

If your only way of access to a power up is through paying, then it is a clear example of pay to win, accept it or keep living with delusions.

also oh my god dude, you would make the perfect EA customer... I bet yer a big fan of battlefront 2 aswell. hell, even that game allowed people to slowly grind their way up instead of paying for stuff.

Same thing was in Wrothgar and morrowind. New features added. It’s not pay to win when you have to work for such things and actually put fourth effort in it. Secondly, its not p2w because it’s clearly not game breaking OP making it so that every jewlery crafter is automatically better than anyone who didn’t purchase summerset. You’re buying an expansion/DLC to play new content. It doesn’t give you a massive edge on anyone who hasn’t because clearly your skill isn’t defined by traits on jewlery. Your argument makes you seem like you’re a cp 500 noob who runs in a 24 man zerg and constantly gets smacked by a smaller far more coordinated group. Is that also p2w since people are using mics so that gives them such a clear advantage? With your logic buying an elite controller, a high quality headset, or a better console for higher performance is also considered pay to win. It is also an l2p issue, snare or root your target. Or maybe don’t follow and chase him as he runs around the corner waiting for you to follow him only for you to get ulti dumped and killed.

Now wrothgar was part of ESO+ so It did not disturb me or anyone else really.(besides getting a vMA weapon was extremely difficult to the point people would not question your skills if you carried one.)

As for morrowind, many streamers and myself included, said that warden is pay to win, and it was. I never said it wasn't.

the difference between you and me however, is that I say what I think is right, and you are yet another person who is defending his cheese and insulting other people for the sake of it. Yes, that is who you are.

No I'm not a zergling. No you can not snare a stamsorc with permanent forward momentum. Its kinda funny that you bring snares as a counterplay tool, shows how little you know. And for the record no, I'm a solo player who gets chased down all the time by those ''elite small scalers'' who chug down immovables and dump bleeds,cost poisons, ults on single dude.

Love how you say a warden is pay to win when the class wasn’t even viable at all in pve and the only good PvP warden was a stamden. Doesn’t seem pay to win when the class is debatably the worst class in the game in terms of pve and only good in the stamside in PvP. Once again flawed logic. Honestly it just seems to me like you’re just bad at the game. Firstly immovs are 11 seconds at most. Potion cooldown is 46 seconds if I’m not mistaken. Once again seems like an l2p issue since you’re always dying as seen and you can’t fight a stamsorc or all classes lmao. Once again. Noobs crying over anything. Also once again I’m not defending my cheese, I don’t run Swift, I’ve tried it but I prefer more damage, I play 6 different classes in PvP. What you think is right is full of fallacies. With your logic once again I will say, buying a good headset, controller, TV, or console must also be pay to win. By your logic.

you still haven't bringed in a real argument, all you say is l2p this, l2p that.... And controllers? TVs? lmao... okay, its decided, why haven't you said you're a console player from the beginning. My god, I wasted so much time over the irrelevant.

Datthaw wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Swift is op in terms of open world mobility and it is honestly pay to win.

It’s not pay to win, nor is it broken OP, all it does is increases movement speed which is doesn’t include any damage buff or any defensive buffs. It’s a normal trait that has its counter play. How about snaring your super fast target? What’s he going to do? Run around you to death? Run away? Nothing in this game is pay to win, just an argument noobs use because they can’t access such features. Smh I’m more than sure someone who doesn’t have summerset can just ask a crafter to craft them a specific jewlery. Or l2p

Lol it is pay to win in my opinion. And the way you comment makes me feel you spend very little time in cyro.

If you think this game is pay to win, you’re probably a low cp noob in cyro who dies a lot and finds anything as an excuse to complain.

I think the games p2w and i've been playing the game since console release.

It is pay to win, not on a gamebreaking level, but it still is pay to win. Not every set can be crafted and crafting jewelry is still too expensive. I think the main problem here is that transmuting jewelry is locked for non-summerset owners, which extremely limits their build options.

It really pains me to see that players are in such a denial that they do not want to admit what is clearly pay to win. You pay for the expansion and you get an advantage over others, No matter how little or big it is.

No it’s not pay to win. It’s a part of a DLC/expansion which is a part of the game. They add new features. Just because you can’t afford a new DLC doesn’t make the game pay to win. You still have to research the traits, farm the materials, or spend loads thousands of gold buying the material. Then you must upgrade it. Nothing pay to win about that. This game isn’t pay to win and saying added in features in DLC/ expansions as an excuse is absolutely pathetic. By no means does this give you a far superior advantage and if anything you must work to get the new feature. How it works when new content is released. You’re not going to be grated some magical “I win button” no. Swift has counter play, even if it’s OP it’s still meh. L2p and stop crying about p2w because that is by far the WORST excuse ever used.

Stop proving my point you're making things easier for me .d

''Just because you can’t afford a new DLC doesn’t make the game pay to win''

This is exactly what people said back when f2p mmorpgs was a popular thing. This is not like getting locked out of a map or battlegrounds game mode. This is people being able to specialize their builds much more than you do because they paid for it and you didn't or couldn't.

and calling l2p on this? lmao, do you mean learn to pay or are you actually that ignorant? I made a point up there and supported it with solid reasoning. Jewelry being hard to grind does not change a flippin thing. When transmuting was introduced it was not pay to win at all because even though it was expensive and limited, non paying users could still use a station in someone's house, so even though it required more effort it was not pay to win. jewelrycrafting would be also fine if transmuting jewelry would not make them bound, so people who paid for the expansion would have the ability to help the others or profit from this. Which would make it a totally fine system.

If your only way of access to a power up is through paying, then it is a clear example of pay to win, accept it or keep living with delusions.

also oh my god dude, you would make the perfect EA customer... I bet yer a big fan of battlefront 2 aswell. hell, even that game allowed people to slowly grind their way up instead of paying for stuff.

Same thing was in Wrothgar and morrowind. New features added. It’s not pay to win when you have to work for such things and actually put fourth effort in it. Secondly, its not p2w because it’s clearly not game breaking OP making it so that every jewlery crafter is automatically better than anyone who didn’t purchase summerset. You’re buying an expansion/DLC to play new content. It doesn’t give you a massive edge on anyone who hasn’t because clearly your skill isn’t defined by traits on jewlery. Your argument makes you seem like you’re a cp 500 noob who runs in a 24 man zerg and constantly gets smacked by a smaller far more coordinated group. Is that also p2w since people are using mics so that gives them such a clear advantage? With your logic buying an elite controller, a high quality headset, or a better console for higher performance is also considered pay to win. It is also an l2p issue, snare or root your target. Or maybe don’t follow and chase him as he runs around the corner waiting for you to follow him only for you to get ulti dumped and killed.

Now wrothgar was part of ESO+ so It did not disturb me or anyone else really.(besides getting a vMA weapon was extremely difficult to the point people would not question your skills if you carried one.)

As for morrowind, many streamers and myself included, said that warden is pay to win, and it was. I never said it wasn't.

the difference between you and me however, is that I say what I think is right, and you are yet another person who is defending his cheese and insulting other people for the sake of it. Yes, that is who you are.

No I'm not a zergling. No you can not snare a stamsorc with permanent forward momentum. Its kinda funny that you bring snares as a counterplay tool, shows how little you know. And for the record no, I'm a solo player who gets chased down all the time by those ''elite small scalers'' who chug down immovables and dump bleeds,cost poisons, ults on single dude.

Love how you say a warden is pay to win when the class wasn’t even viable at all in pve and the only good PvP warden was a stamden. Doesn’t seem pay to win when the class is debatably the worst class in the game in terms of pve and only good in the stamside in PvP. Once again flawed logic. Honestly it just seems to me like you’re just bad at the game. Firstly immovs are 11 seconds at most. Potion cooldown is 46 seconds if I’m not mistaken. Once again seems like an l2p issue since you’re always dying as seen and you can’t fight a stamsorc or all classes lmao. Once again. Noobs crying over anything. Also once again I’m not defending my cheese, I don’t run Swift, I’ve tried it but I prefer more damage, I play 6 different classes in PvP. What you think is right is full of fallacies. With your logic once again I will say, buying a good headset, controller, TV, or console must also be pay to win. By your logic.

you still haven't bringed in a real argument, all you say is l2p this, l2p that.... And controllers? TVs? lmao... okay, its decided, why haven't you said you're a console player from the beginning. My god, I wasted so much time over the irrelevant.

I don't think he understands how op both Wardens were for a bit, Console players make me laugh like 90% of the time.

Whats funny is that, I do use a gaming pc with top tier hardware, gaming mice, 144hz monitor, that sort of stuff.(not to brag about it, but I realized the difference hardware makes and worked my ass off to afford the best PC I could get, cause gaming to me is a passion.) When I play competitive games like cs:go or whatever, I realize my hardware alone puts me at a massive advantage compared to many people that lack it. I do not deny it, but there is nothing I can do about it. Complaining about this is like complaining about people not having same reaction times or people being physically impaired. Ping itself is a massive deciding factor for online games.

But this is not the same as a game giving me better guns for getting the latest dlc or whatever. Console kids never understand this because they weren't here when the market was full of free to play MMOs that failed due to heavily pay to win systems forced into games by corporate greed , they're experiencing what we had 10 years ago only now.

And this to me, explains why battlefront 2 was a massive flop on PC meanwhile the game is defended by console players. Its very hard to please PC players, hard to lie to them. They're used to this kind of crap. F2P alone is a buzzword on PC.(yet there are successful f2p titles like warframe or fortnite, games that didn't go down the greedy path, were rewarded and praised by the playerbase)

I hope one day console audience will get on the same level and say NO to this kind of crap.

Supporting the devs you like is one thing, supporting corporate greed is another. And this is why I do not buy expansions, I however, still buy DLCs that I like and think its worth the money for.

dassneakereb17_ESO wrote: »

lol just put 3 swift with speed buffs, run around players like sanic on meth and abuse lag on potato servers, it's the best defense and offence buff in game
you get like 50% dodge because enemy can't use skills on you while wasting their resourses and you can focus on bursting instead of defense
enjoy another little unintended feature from zos

This about sums it up.

Exactly why swift performs well. I've equipped a few stam toons with 3, up from 2. Mag at 2.

Just as the quote states it is a defensive as well as offensive trait.

Jewelry crafting is not pay to win, local economy and game choices are what makes or breaks you

Not having a crafter but all the DLCs is the same as not having the dlcs when you look at jewelry crafting while others can make you jewelry your tied to our craftable sets ...

If your bone pirates body peices drop in wrong trait if you don't personally have a crafter or have them researched you aim Changing them either ... But no one is complaining ...

It's a choice you made ... And I'm sure when the next big expansion hits two things will happen

Jewelry crafting will be available in base game and it will get easier to accurire the mats

Datthaw wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

Jewelry crafting is not pay to win, local economy and game choices are what makes or breaks you

Not having a crafter but all the DLCs is the same as not having the dlcs when you look at jewelry crafting while others can make you jewelry your tied to our craftable sets ...

If your bone pirates body peices drop in wrong trait if you don't personally have a crafter or have them researched you aim Changing them either ... But no one is complaining ...

It's a choice you made ... And I'm sure when the next big expansion hits two things will happen

Jewelry crafting will be available in base game and it will get easier to accurire the mats

So not having a leveled crafter because you're lazy = hiding gear behind pay wall dlc?

Come on dude that's a stretch

It's not hiding it... You just need other means in which to obtain it, same as you would if you hadn't levelled a crafter

Darkenarlol wrote: »

laughing to tears omg

so JC is pay to win? srsly?

okay so let's say that any non-FTP game is pay to win cuz you have to pay to start playing and (maybe) winning?


not even gonna mention that in non-FTP games with vertical level progression you usually have to buy new

addon/expansion/whatever they call it just to PLAY your game ( wow for example - no actual arena seasons for guys who

have bought BC about ten years ago - sorry lol)


pay to win is when you have UBER-perfect weapons accesible only thru store with no chances getting it in game

with let's say 1000 wpn/spell stackable chants for just 100$ /piece so if you spend thousands of dollars on your char

you end with something like 1mill hp 1mill mag/stam 2mill spell/wpn dmg and 90% permanent control immune just for your

spended cash


stop calling p2w things that are not p2w

btw are you some kind of hobo? 30$ in a year for your hobby is too much? srsly?

then GET OUT FROM THIS FORUM AND GET A DAMN JOB

It is a p2w regardless of what you think. Is it locked behind the paywall? Check. There you go. I am pretty sure most of the people work also. Just sayin'.

i'm dying here; We have people arguing that Expansion Packs for MMO's are now pay 2 win?

Rofl...

Defilted wrote: »

P2W would be offering swift as a crown store purchase to get an effect of 10% speed bonus for 10K crowns. This is straight P2W.

P2W is not upgrading the software and selling that upgrade in a chapter release. MMO's have been releasing expansions forever and buying the next expansion is not P2W.

Please stop with the Swift is P2W. ZOS needs to make money to pay developers to continue to make software for this game. The releases cannot be free unless you really want P2W Crown store mechanics and not just cosmetics.

grow up. Games and game expansions cost money.


Swift may be a powerful buff in the right hands in open world. I have seen it used extremely effectively. It is not all powerful and will not allow you to win every fight you are in. I use swift. It is a nice buff, but it is not the ultimate instant win button.

You can still be stunned, snared, You can still run out of resources.

Is it annoying tracking a single player down using double swift, Yes, but not game breaking or P2W.

Exactly. It's an MMO, new content will be always in some way better than old one. It's just a payment model, if game would be f2p you would get free expansions with nothing interesting in them and best items in crown store, if game would be p2p you would get everything in the expansion bit you would have to pay monthly fee. There is no escape from this.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

i'm dying here; We have people arguing that Expansion Packs for MMO's are now pay 2 win?

Rofl...

God forbid they raise the lvl cap like in wow in an expansion some day.
Imagine the complaints.

Well this would end in mass unsubs, quits and in general mass migration of players, including me. I spend 80-90% of a time in PvP, if I'd have to grind my gear again I would simply quit the game for good.