Unofficial Discussion for Future Changes to Repentance

SirDopey · September 2018

Personally I feel that slotting it should provide a buff, having that buff returns resources when anyone with 28m repents. Corpses can only be repented once.

This allows groups to have multiple templars that can get the resources back, so long as they're communicating (or double slotting repentance) or the buff could even have a cool down period to fall off (say 10 seconds or something)

crazy_catman21 · September 2018

#RepentEngine2018

Feanor · September 2018

@Joy_Division

I agree. What made repentance so powerful and awesome was the rewarding nature - you worked for the kill, you got the resources back. It was fun. I don’t understand why they had to gut class defining skills when they tackled sustain in Morrowind. Instead, that would have been a chance to make the classes standout even clearer. It’s a wasted opportunity.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I agree. What made repentance so powerful and awesome was the rewarding nature - you worked for the kill, you got the resources back. It was fun. I don’t understand why they had to gut class defining skills when they tackled sustain in Morrowind. Instead, that would have been a chance to make the classes standout even clearer. It’s a wasted opportunity.

Because repentance gave up to 5 other people, besides yourself, 10% of your max stat, that is either mag or stam, in stamina, up to 6 times at once. With my healer or my stamplar, that was around 4k per dead body. So up to 25k Stam back to one player, up to 150k total for all 6. That is why. It is really simple.

Drdeath20 · September 2018

I dislike repentance and radiant aura but i will admit that it feels great to repent corpses.

It should just be passives.

10% regen and if an enemy dies in your ritual or nova you repent their corpse for X amount of stamina or magicka (whichever is greater). obviously numbers cant be too crazy.

Burning light when procced returns X amount of stamina.

For magicka you still gotta make a choice between slotting rune for a guranteed magicka boost or slotting ritual for the repentance and other utility benefits or both and sacrifice something else.

For stam users its unique. We dont get the big on demand stam return but we do get stamina sprinkled to us from a few different areas. Getting alittle bit passively throughtout the fight vs 1 chunk on demand.

But but we dont have enough passives....my response is enduring rays and light weaver are both good candidates to just be incorporated into the base skill.

Drdeath20 · September 2018

This change wont effect PvP too much but it will help weaker skills like ritual in pve see the light of day and is still practical about builds.

Joy_Division · September 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I agree. What made repentance so powerful and awesome was the rewarding nature - you worked for the kill, you got the resources back. It was fun. I don’t understand why they had to gut class defining skills when they tackled sustain in Morrowind. Instead, that would have been a chance to make the classes standout even clearer. It’s a wasted opportunity.

Because repentance gave up to 5 other people, besides yourself, 10% of your max stat, that is either mag or stam, in stamina, up to 6 times at once. With my healer or my stamplar, that was around 4k per dead body. So up to 25k Stam back to one player, up to 150k total for all 6. That is why. It is really simple.

Not sure what you are talking about. Repentance gave stam not max stat.

Skill is pretty much useless in a fight before something actually dies, and can be made useless by an enemy templar repenting corpses while waiting for those 6 dead bodies to pile up: now the templar just wasted a GCD without anything happening. Such a niche skill needs to have a potent effect because it has such a limited use.

Minno · September 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I agree. What made repentance so powerful and awesome was the rewarding nature - you worked for the kill, you got the resources back. It was fun. I don’t understand why they had to gut class defining skills when they tackled sustain in Morrowind. Instead, that would have been a chance to make the classes standout even clearer. It’s a wasted opportunity.

Because repentance gave up to 5 other people, besides yourself, 10% of your max stat, that is either mag or stam, in stamina, up to 6 times at once. With my healer or my stamplar, that was around 4k per dead body. So up to 25k Stam back to one player, up to 150k total for all 6. That is why. It is really simple.

Not sure what you are talking about. Repentance gave stam not max stat.

Skill is pretty much useless in a fight before something actually dies, and can be made useless by an enemy templar repenting corpses while you wait for those 6 dead bodies to pile up: now you just wasted a GCD without anything happening. Such a niche skill needs to have a potent effect because it has such a limited use.

I have been thinking about this for some time. It's probably better to slot another dot in this skill's space and get all your dmg from 5pc/2pc sets to go all regen related on the mundas/jewel enchants (using bone pirate of course). Body regen is an interesting concept, but was only interesting because our sustain came entirely from CP so it felt better than most people thought was possible. With morrowind changes, we had to either go full on damage (and just sucking down the lack of regen as a "feature") or find ways to sustain (engine guardian, redguard, off balance resource, heavy attack, stam regen poisons, etc.)

But either way, the general saying is as follows; "everything a stamplar does, a nightblade can do better". That is the current feedback being mentioned by templars (and yes even healing, I just saw a BG vid where a nightblade was getting 900K+ healing on the other side of the map on console lol).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I agree. What made repentance so powerful and awesome was the rewarding nature - you worked for the kill, you got the resources back. It was fun. I don’t understand why they had to gut class defining skills when they tackled sustain in Morrowind. Instead, that would have been a chance to make the classes standout even clearer. It’s a wasted opportunity.

Because repentance gave up to 5 other people, besides yourself, 10% of your max stat, that is either mag or stam, in stamina, up to 6 times at once. With my healer or my stamplar, that was around 4k per dead body. So up to 25k Stam back to one player, up to 150k total for all 6. That is why. It is really simple.

Not sure what you are talking about. Repentance gave stam not max stat.

Skill is pretty much useless in a fight before something actually dies, and can be made useless by an enemy templar repenting corpses while waiting for those 6 dead bodies to pile up: now the templar just wasted a GCD without anything happening. Such a niche skill needs to have a potent effect because it has such a limited use.

Before Morrowind, instead of the flat 2970 Stam you get right now, you would get 10% of your max stat. So the higher your magic or Stam, the larger your return of Stam you got from repentance. The larger everyone around you got. This is why they nerfed it into the ground. You know this, you have been around forever.

Just make it so any temp can repentance a body once, regardless if it has been repented already. Like I have said 3 or 4 times already. It is the simplest way to make the skill more reliable.

Joy_Division · September 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I agree. What made repentance so powerful and awesome was the rewarding nature - you worked for the kill, you got the resources back. It was fun. I don’t understand why they had to gut class defining skills when they tackled sustain in Morrowind. Instead, that would have been a chance to make the classes standout even clearer. It’s a wasted opportunity.

Because repentance gave up to 5 other people, besides yourself, 10% of your max stat, that is either mag or stam, in stamina, up to 6 times at once. With my healer or my stamplar, that was around 4k per dead body. So up to 25k Stam back to one player, up to 150k total for all 6. That is why. It is really simple.

Not sure what you are talking about. Repentance gave stam not max stat.

Skill is pretty much useless in a fight before something actually dies, and can be made useless by an enemy templar repenting corpses while waiting for those 6 dead bodies to pile up: now the templar just wasted a GCD without anything happening. Such a niche skill needs to have a potent effect because it has such a limited use.

Before Morrowind, instead of the flat 2970 Stam you get right now, you would get 10% of your max stat. So the higher your magic or Stam, the larger your return of Stam you got from repentance. The larger everyone around you got. This is why they nerfed it into the ground. You know this, you have been around forever.

Just make it so any temp can repentance a body once, regardless if it has been repented already. Like I have said 3 or 4 times already. It is the simplest way to make the skill more reliable.

Yes, I have been around forever. Long enough to know Repentance never gave max stat. It always gave stamina, which limits it as a resource return mechanism that you mistakenly think it was.

Making the skill simple does not mean it makes it better. There is a reason "dumbed down" - rightly - has a negative connotation.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I agree. What made repentance so powerful and awesome was the rewarding nature - you worked for the kill, you got the resources back. It was fun. I don’t understand why they had to gut class defining skills when they tackled sustain in Morrowind. Instead, that would have been a chance to make the classes standout even clearer. It’s a wasted opportunity.

Because repentance gave up to 5 other people, besides yourself, 10% of your max stat, that is either mag or stam, in stamina, up to 6 times at once. With my healer or my stamplar, that was around 4k per dead body. So up to 25k Stam back to one player, up to 150k total for all 6. That is why. It is really simple.

Not sure what you are talking about. Repentance gave stam not max stat.

Skill is pretty much useless in a fight before something actually dies, and can be made useless by an enemy templar repenting corpses while waiting for those 6 dead bodies to pile up: now the templar just wasted a GCD without anything happening. Such a niche skill needs to have a potent effect because it has such a limited use.

Before Morrowind, instead of the flat 2970 Stam you get right now, you would get 10% of your max stat. So the higher your magic or Stam, the larger your return of Stam you got from repentance. The larger everyone around you got. This is why they nerfed it into the ground. You know this, you have been around forever.

Just make it so any temp can repentance a body once, regardless if it has been repented already. Like I have said 3 or 4 times already. It is the simplest way to make the skill more reliable.

Yes, I have been around forever. Long enough to know Repentance never gave max stat. It always gave stamina, which limits it as a resource return mechanism that you mistakenly think it was.

Making the skill simple does not mean it makes it better. There is a reason "dumbed down" - rightly - has a negative connotation.

no, no, i am not mistaken, you are simply not understanding what i am saying. repentance gave you stamina back all the time, yes, like you are saying and have said twice now but instead of a flat rate, 2970 stamina per body right now, it gave 10% of your max stat, magic or stam, which ever was higher. say your max magic was at 41,921, repentance would have gave you 4,192 stamina back per corpse. same with max stamina, if your max stam was at 38,142, repentance would have gave you 3,814 stamina back per corpse. do you see what i am saying yet? the more you stacked your max stat, the higher your resource return, i remember telling plenty of healers back in the day on my stamina templar to not use repentance, cause they only had like 32k max magic and i had 42k stam. so them repenting hurt my sustain. still was better then the way it is now, i have been kicked out of at least a half dozen dungeon since morrowind because there was anther stamplar in the group.

zos wanted to nerf all percentage based resource return. obviously the best group sustain skill (i say best cause it required other players to do nothing, other then have a templar in the group) in the game couldn't stay the way it was. right now i would settle for what i have said many time in this thread. just dont over think this. if you make it so that templars can return stamina to other players, without them doing anything like repentance used to be, templar healers will again be the only ones you see, regardless of the fact that zos is trying to make all classes viable healers. also regardless of your views on how successful that they are being with that venture.

Drdeath20 · September 2018

There was never any middle ground with the old repentance.

It was either unlimited free stamina to my whole group or completely useless and a waste of a skill slot.

Joy_Division · September 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I agree. What made repentance so powerful and awesome was the rewarding nature - you worked for the kill, you got the resources back. It was fun. I don’t understand why they had to gut class defining skills when they tackled sustain in Morrowind. Instead, that would have been a chance to make the classes standout even clearer. It’s a wasted opportunity.

Because repentance gave up to 5 other people, besides yourself, 10% of your max stat, that is either mag or stam, in stamina, up to 6 times at once. With my healer or my stamplar, that was around 4k per dead body. So up to 25k Stam back to one player, up to 150k total for all 6. That is why. It is really simple.

Not sure what you are talking about. Repentance gave stam not max stat.

Skill is pretty much useless in a fight before something actually dies, and can be made useless by an enemy templar repenting corpses while waiting for those 6 dead bodies to pile up: now the templar just wasted a GCD without anything happening. Such a niche skill needs to have a potent effect because it has such a limited use.

Before Morrowind, instead of the flat 2970 Stam you get right now, you would get 10% of your max stat. So the higher your magic or Stam, the larger your return of Stam you got from repentance. The larger everyone around you got. This is why they nerfed it into the ground. You know this, you have been around forever.

Just make it so any temp can repentance a body once, regardless if it has been repented already. Like I have said 3 or 4 times already. It is the simplest way to make the skill more reliable.

Yes, I have been around forever. Long enough to know Repentance never gave max stat. It always gave stamina, which limits it as a resource return mechanism that you mistakenly think it was.

Making the skill simple does not mean it makes it better. There is a reason "dumbed down" - rightly - has a negative connotation.

no, no, i am not mistaken, you are simply not understanding what i am saying. repentance gave you stamina back all the time, yes, like you are saying and have said twice now but instead of a flat rate, 2970 stamina per body right now, it gave 10% of your max stat, magic or stam, which ever was higher. say your max magic was at 41,921, repentance would have gave you 4,192 stamina back per corpse. same with max stamina, if your max stam was at 38,142, repentance would have gave you 3,814 stamina back per corpse. do you see what i am saying yet? the more you stacked your max stat, the higher your resource return, i remember telling plenty of healers back in the day on my stamina templar to not use repentance, cause they only had like 32k max magic and i had 42k stam. so them repenting hurt my sustain. still was better then the way it is now, i have been kicked out of at least a half dozen dungeon since morrowind because there was anther stamplar in the group.

zos wanted to nerf all percentage based resource return. obviously the best group sustain skill (i say best cause it required other players to do nothing, other then have a templar in the group) in the game couldn't stay the way it was. right now i would settle for what i have said many time in this thread. just dont over think this. if you make it so that templars can return stamina to other players, without them doing anything like repentance used to be, templar healers will again be the only ones you see, regardless of the fact that zos is trying to make all classes viable healers. also regardless of your views on how successful that they are being with that venture.

Oh, yeah that's a lot clearer. The way it was worded before sounded like it could give back the actual max resource.

ZOS wants to do a lot of things and has. When they make a poor decision, I will continue to assert it was a poor decision, regardless of their reasoning behind it (which is also usually poor). If we are so concerned about classes dominating roles, it is worse than it has *ever* been right now, after Morrowind and all their attempts at nerfing % based resource return. Now NBs are the only class that has decent resource management, raids bring in all NB DPS, and DKs dominate the tank role. So I don't agree they were successful. Especially since when everyone still assumes my templar is only a healer. Every single time I have received a whisper from a contact to join their PvP group, fill in for a GvG, or whenever, they have always asked me to heal and only heal, even though I am utterly not spec for such a role.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I agree. What made repentance so powerful and awesome was the rewarding nature - you worked for the kill, you got the resources back. It was fun. I don’t understand why they had to gut class defining skills when they tackled sustain in Morrowind. Instead, that would have been a chance to make the classes standout even clearer. It’s a wasted opportunity.

Because repentance gave up to 5 other people, besides yourself, 10% of your max stat, that is either mag or stam, in stamina, up to 6 times at once. With my healer or my stamplar, that was around 4k per dead body. So up to 25k Stam back to one player, up to 150k total for all 6. That is why. It is really simple.

Not sure what you are talking about. Repentance gave stam not max stat.

Skill is pretty much useless in a fight before something actually dies, and can be made useless by an enemy templar repenting corpses while waiting for those 6 dead bodies to pile up: now the templar just wasted a GCD without anything happening. Such a niche skill needs to have a potent effect because it has such a limited use.

Before Morrowind, instead of the flat 2970 Stam you get right now, you would get 10% of your max stat. So the higher your magic or Stam, the larger your return of Stam you got from repentance. The larger everyone around you got. This is why they nerfed it into the ground. You know this, you have been around forever.

Just make it so any temp can repentance a body once, regardless if it has been repented already. Like I have said 3 or 4 times already. It is the simplest way to make the skill more reliable.

Yes, I have been around forever. Long enough to know Repentance never gave max stat. It always gave stamina, which limits it as a resource return mechanism that you mistakenly think it was.

Making the skill simple does not mean it makes it better. There is a reason "dumbed down" - rightly - has a negative connotation.

no, no, i am not mistaken, you are simply not understanding what i am saying. repentance gave you stamina back all the time, yes, like you are saying and have said twice now but instead of a flat rate, 2970 stamina per body right now, it gave 10% of your max stat, magic or stam, which ever was higher. say your max magic was at 41,921, repentance would have gave you 4,192 stamina back per corpse. same with max stamina, if your max stam was at 38,142, repentance would have gave you 3,814 stamina back per corpse. do you see what i am saying yet? the more you stacked your max stat, the higher your resource return, i remember telling plenty of healers back in the day on my stamina templar to not use repentance, cause they only had like 32k max magic and i had 42k stam. so them repenting hurt my sustain. still was better then the way it is now, i have been kicked out of at least a half dozen dungeon since morrowind because there was anther stamplar in the group.

zos wanted to nerf all percentage based resource return. obviously the best group sustain skill (i say best cause it required other players to do nothing, other then have a templar in the group) in the game couldn't stay the way it was. right now i would settle for what i have said many time in this thread. just dont over think this. if you make it so that templars can return stamina to other players, without them doing anything like repentance used to be, templar healers will again be the only ones you see, regardless of the fact that zos is trying to make all classes viable healers. also regardless of your views on how successful that they are being with that venture.

Oh, yeah that's a lot clearer. The way it was worded before sounded like it could give back the actual max resource.

ZOS wants to do a lot of things and has. When they make a poor decision, I will continue to assert it was a poor decision, regardless of their reasoning behind it (which is also usually poor). If we are so concerned about classes dominating roles, it is worse than it has *ever* been right now, after Morrowind and all their attempts at nerfing % based resource return. Now NBs are the only class that has decent resource management, raids bring in all NB DPS, and DKs dominate the tank role. So I don't agree they were successful. Especially since when everyone still assumes my templar is only a healer. Every single time I have received a whisper from a contact to join their PvP group, fill in for a GvG, or whenever, they have always asked me to heal and only heal, even though I am utterly not spec for such a role.

I mean, you are right on most accounts but trials are not the only content in the game. There are plenty if people that pretty much only play 4 man stuff, myself included, so the classes are much more even in that way.

On nightblade DPS the only ones being allowed in vet trials, I think that is more of a reaction to the way the last couple have been designed, when the trials are basically single target fights, of course the class that is best at single target is going to be the only one that is let in. Zos needs to somehow make AOE more relevant. Then other classes would have there time to shine.

Also the fact you are not invited to do anything but heal as a Templar is a symptom of the community, the other classes are 99% as good as a temp at healing now, there is little reason to be classist when it comes to that. People need to open their eyes to this fact.