Nyladreas wrote: »

I've ran into a couple people today that just made me question whether it's even worth playing this game anymore. I'm talking about PvP participants in a CP campaign.

There are just some things that I don't understand at all. As an example

Medium Armor wearers that somehow only take minimal damage and heal like a templar, never ever seem to run out of resources while fighting an entire group of people and constantly dodging, somehow still being able to dish out damage in numbers like 6-8k.

Meanwhile I'm here with a full damage build, being a glasscanon, hit these people for about 2k with surprise attack, my rally ticks for like 500 without defile, vigor for about 1000 without defile. Running 2.5k stamina regen and having no stamina after 10 seconds...

Or people who somehow manage to mash 4 attacks into 1 second while we fight. I know some of you will say lag, but I find it very hard to believe that there is some random lag spike all of a sudden that lets someone win like that. Because if it was true, then how come I never ever experience this myself? How come its always someone who's killing me? It doesn't add up.

Can somebody explain how are these things even possible? Why when I wear identical setups I doesn't change anything? This is open field combat too, no LoS, no Trick, Just Face to Face Fair combat. I'm about to just give up on the game. The next best thing is, whenever I politely ask these people what builds they use they either ignore it, or respond along the lines of "Secret" or some random profanity. Only got one response in 10.

If anyone has ever wondered why i flip out and send hate tells, its because of things like that. I find myself struggling, trying to be at least slightly good, trying to play the game and focus so hard it gives me a literal headache, keeping up with everything on the screen and just really not having fun.... and then all effort gets instantly thrown out the window by someone like this. So if there's anyone here reading this, anyone who got a hate tell from me, let me sincerely apologise, I can actually be a really nice person outside of PvP. It's almost like this game is changing me.

Does anyone here know what I mean? Like... am I the only one? What am I missing... Was my character supposed to do something or get something? Are people just exploiting or hacking? I'm not a good player by a long shot but these simple things that really aren't a question of gameplay or playstyle... These inconsistencies, these huge factual number gaps.... It just doesn't add up. And sadly it makes me hate a really good game with a lot of potential.

I don't want to start any conspiracies or anything here, just truly trying to understand what's making me want to quit the game I love. Any constructive input would be appreciated. And once again, I'm not a good player but this just feels like something else is going on behind the scenes.

There are a lot of things you likely aren't aware of when it comes to many builds and how they are set up.

There are defensive sets that when used in conjunction with class abilities make people really tanky. Someone that doesn't allow their "buffs" to drop is infinitely more powerful than someone who does.

I'll give you an example. A simple medium armor (+2 heavy) nightblade with one defensive set that is also using Bloodspawn and keeping shadow barrier up and also mixing in CP bonuses on top of it can be really tanky. Defensive set (impreg, pariah etc) + ~11k armor/spell resist in conjunction with blocking equals very low damage to them. Using only 1 "offensive" set is enough to burst down people not wearing defensive sets or playing defensively. Take the same thing with someone wearing an offensive heavy armor set + bloodspawn + shadow barrier + CP can make them downright hard to kill.

Many of these builds aren't going to flat out burst down anyone that is at all focusing on some defense (past ulti dumping with dawnbreaker and following through and using an execute).

Also, another thing to keep in mind is the use of lingering health potions. You know (or in this case you probably don't) that people can be running around with a constant hot and major vitality and minor protection. Many other combos of potion effects are used and are nearly always up in combat (it's expensive btw).

There are lots of combinations of abilities and effects that people can use to take very little damage. Troll king and vigor hot with major vitality and high weapon damage in combination with dodge rolling, movement speed and using los makes people really hard to kill. Add heavy armor to that and the increased healing it gives... you get the idea.

The problem you have is that "glass cannon" builds aren't cannons versus defensive builds. Many many builds aren't going down without a cc before burst.

End of the day, add that all up with the fact that there is invariably those that will augment all of it with abusing broken sets or flat out exploiting and hacking... It makes it hard to discern what's legit. There are many that will respond to that with insults, but that's patently obvious what there intent is.

Lastly, let's just keep in mind the moral to the Cheat Engine weekend. It has been widely claimed or believed that the primary violator was just running a program to cheat. That primary violator was doing it more because he found out that people had been using it for years and he wanted to make it known (he knew he would be banned). To think that "the usual suspects" haven't moved on to something that isn't being detected is foolish. I know of quite a few "loud mouthed brash smack talkers" that disappeared permanently after that fiasco, it's hard to tell nowadays who is or if it even is still happening with all the "egocentric" children (perhaps the word should be childish, as they aren't even children) there are.

P.S. most builds have a sweet spot for stamina regen. Meaning there is a point where they can sustain very well, and it's lower based on the cost of abilities. If you are a bow based glass cannon build the cost of your abilities makes it very hard to sustain without going too far into sustain to be useful. You might note that many of these nearly unlimited sustain builds don't use expensive abilities by design.

I generally stopped playing cp. non cp has much balance. CP allows for super high regen, you can easily get 10% increase to all heals, and stupid levels of tankiness.

Nyladreas wrote: »

Medium Armor wearers that somehow only take minimal damage and heal like a templar, never ever seem to run out of resources while fighting an entire group of people and constantly dodging, somehow still being able to dish out damage in numbers like 6-8k.

Meanwhile I'm here with a full damage build, being a glasscanon, hit these people for about 2k with surprise attack, my rally ticks for like 500 without defile, vigor for about 1000 without defile. Running 2.5k stamina regen and having no stamina after 10 seconds...

Or people who somehow manage to mash 4 attacks into 1 second while we fight. I know some of you will say lag, but I find it very hard to believe that there is some random lag spike all of a sudden that lets someone win like that. Because if it was true, then how come I never ever experience this myself? How come its always someone who's killing me? It doesn't add up.

Stamina's heavy attacks are better so they can build more damage

Again Stamina's heavy attacks are better. IDK how you can say you have 2.5k regen and are a full damage class cannon build???

What you say is 4 attacks is likely actually 3 attacks (maybe a proc would make it 4). And yes lag can help with this. 3 attacks in one second is rather believable from someone who understands what they are doing.

Welcome to One Stamriel... Or technically now I should say S-Stammerset. Sorc's only saving grace is streak and the fact that engine guardian is perfect for them. Magblade has all sorts of issues in open world yet subsequently none (it really just lacks flavor among other things). Mag DK needs someone to keep on their targets rather than perma rooting them cuz that ain't balanced. Magplar is getting there. And Magden is a meme

Stamina can solve a lot of issues with their better heavy attacks and ability to dodge more. One of the reasons I liked playing a DW magblade is because I had those super quick and fluid DW heavy attacks for stamina. DW heavy attacks are by far my favorite in the game and are the best due to their quick time and damage output (the damage doesn't matter on a magic build though).

@Nyladreas if you want I can post the video of our duels so some of the people chiming in can get a better perspective of your playstyle. Let me know. A lot of what some people are saying isn’t really relevant.

Biggest issues I face are getting ranged on heavy attacks, passive roll dodge occurring far more frequently than it should, and getting hit by dodgeable attacks mid dodgeroll. I chalk those up to lag.

Prabooo wrote: »

CE does exist. It used to be more popular, but it is still used by some. I got very sad and frustrated when I faced that reality, but I moved on forward to realize that humans will always find a cheat/exploit etc... in order to be on top of others, even in a virtual game.


Each one has different ethical fundaments, I believe.

CE exists but its a memory hack and can only alter data that’s stored on the client. After CE weekend, most data was moved away from being stored client side and swapped to server side.

Some data is still stored client side though. Primarily it’s position data. Cheat engine as we knew it is no longer possible, but theoretically it would be possible to cheat to speed yourself up. There are many server anti-cheat algorithms running that would catch that, so I doubt it’s a problem, but it’s theoretically possible.

Targeting is another thing that CE could be used for. There wouldn’t be a CE hack that could make your own character untargetable, but there could be a hack that would give you 360degree targeting or longer range on abilities (since Los and range checks are done client side, not server side)

But most of the things people complain about in association with hacking just aren’t possible.

Nyladreas wrote: »

I've ran into a couple people today that just made me question whether it's even worth playing this game anymore. I'm talking about PvP participants in a CP campaign.

There are just some things that I don't understand at all. As an example

Medium Armor wearers that somehow only take minimal damage and heal like a templar, never ever seem to run out of resources while fighting an entire group of people and constantly dodging, somehow still being able to dish out damage in numbers like 6-8k.

Meanwhile I'm here with a full damage build, being a glasscanon, hit these people for about 2k with surprise attack, my rally ticks for like 500 without defile, vigor for about 1000 without defile. Running 2.5k stamina regen and having no stamina after 10 seconds...

Or people who somehow manage to mash 4 attacks into 1 second while we fight. I know some of you will say lag, but I find it very hard to believe that there is some random lag spike all of a sudden that lets someone win like that. Because if it was true, then how come I never ever experience this myself? How come its always someone who's killing me? It doesn't add up.

Can somebody explain how are these things even possible? Why when I wear identical setups I doesn't change anything? This is open field combat too, no LoS, no Trick, Just Face to Face Fair combat. I'm about to just give up on the game. The next best thing is, whenever I politely ask these people what builds they use they either ignore it, or respond along the lines of "Secret" or some random profanity. Only got one response in 10.

If anyone has ever wondered why i flip out and send hate tells, its because of things like that. I find myself struggling, trying to be at least slightly good, trying to play the game and focus so hard it gives me a literal headache, keeping up with everything on the screen and just really not having fun.... and then all effort gets instantly thrown out the window by someone like this. So if there's anyone here reading this, anyone who got a hate tell from me, let me sincerely apologise, I can actually be a really nice person outside of PvP. It's almost like this game is changing me.

Does anyone here know what I mean? Like... am I the only one? What am I missing... Was my character supposed to do something or get something? Are people just exploiting or hacking? I'm not a good player by a long shot but these simple things that really aren't a question of gameplay or playstyle... These inconsistencies, these huge factual number gaps.... It just doesn't add up. And sadly it makes me hate a really good game with a lot of potential.

I don't want to start any conspiracies or anything here, just truly trying to understand what's making me want to quit the game I love. Any constructive input would be appreciated. And once again, I'm not a good player but this just feels like something else is going on behind the scenes.

Record your fights.

What is youtmr supposed glass cannon build? How many cp do you have? Which class are you playing. How did you set up your cp?

I use to question things until I ganked some rando while I was on my melee magblade. Popped out of stealth and killed him while he was stunned. In my eyes it took longer than it should have since I'm not good at PvP and I'm use to folks instantly breaking stun or fear and then rolling away. This feller was stunned to death for the duration.

I got an extremely mad tell from him how I'm a cheater and blah blah blah etc. On his screen he died in about one second to 5 of my attacks. Complete opposite to the poor performance I watched myself do. That one instance right there showed me just how bad lag can affect what happens.

When the cheat engine outing occurred, something like 8 of 10 of the "best players" disappeared completely. The remainder literally went from being unbeatable to barely average overnight. Quite a few competitive players were suddenly average.

In fact, most of the people that said cheating was impossible and belittled the skill of players suspecting cheating (much like some people in this thread), either disappeared or became average.

Just go through the forums. This thread is a throwback to pre-cheat engine outing threads. Maybe a little less caustic than the threads ZoS permitted back then, but the same propaganda.

Gnozo wrote: »

Klasen wrote: »

I know for me recently I got killed in 1 second, one nightblade was able to use 3 skills and 2 ultimates in the one second I heard the attack go off. I wasn't lagging, my attacks were hitting him.

Impossible due to GCD of 1 second.

GCD: Global Cooldown. Cant get skills out faster then every 1 second. No matter if you use macros or Not.

What you experienced was either lag or a "Macroslice", wich has nothing to do with macros just player calling this bug like this. The bug makes you stuck in an animation but you are still able to kill cast the skills and when the bugged animation ends they all fire off at once. This pops up randomly.

This talk of a one second global cool down that cannot be overridden by the player is complete hogwash. I have been playing since PC launch and I seen so many bizarre things in Cyrodiil that I would be accused of perjury if I were to testify in court about them. I have lost count of the number of times where 5+ attacks from the same player have killed me in a second or less that were not attributable to lag.

That being said, the medium armor passive skills along with evasion are way OP for the PVP aspects of this game. The same goes for many of the stamina skills, especially vigor. Cheap cost ultimates are also OP given their very high damage to cost ratio compared to the more expensive ultimates which deal far less damage per cost. It is no coincidence that the tough to kill players described in the original post and others are usually 5M/2H stamina builds with Dawnbreaker.

Nothing in this game should ever be taken seriously! From the very beginning this game has had constant issues with bugs, lag, exploits and cheats. Just stop and think about how many gear sets have been bugged out in the past that has given players a competitive edge and for every TBS that ZOS fixes there is probably another 2 sets that go unnoticed. Plus who knows just how many skills / passives / CP.. etc may be fine one DLC but then extremely bugged out the next DLC. Some of these thing may not even be noticeable by the average player because it take a certain kind of tweak to make the bug active (IE Shuffle or Snipe bugs.. etc).

There will always be players that will use these bugs and exploits every chance they get and they will call it "creative play"! Until ZOS can fix this buggy mess once and for all there really is not reason to even care about who killed who in pvp last night.