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Giving Up On Sorc
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Ive been playing magsorc since I started playing again after one tam, the state the class is in currently is just sad. Sorcs have been made into noob and nb killers in pvp and only shine in pve when it comes to killing large amounts of trash, even then we are arguably out shined by nightblades.
Our sustain is terrible. our burst in pvp is lower and slower than nbs, predictable easily blocked and healed through. heals are sub par to every single class. execute while strong in pvp (one of the FEW things that still gives this class a heartbeat) is weaker than nb in pve by alot. light armor and shield where sorcs find their strength are less favorable to every other class in heavy armor. pve damage and lighting damage are lower than nbs by 10-15k easily. we lack the set support for our class where nbs have sets that are all but tailor made for them with nbs getting a set to utilize every patch while sorcs are still in lambris, juli, necro, mothers sorrow (ill give you siroria is a plus).
Race changed my woodelf thief blade to a highelf mnb geared it out in purple and FIRST dps test I was hitting withing 4k of my highelf magsorc in fully gold gear that I have practiced the rotation of for over a year, while trying to squeeze every last bit of dps out of it.
I really hope update 20 lets gives me a reason to go back to my favorite class
I read this as sorc is not best class in ESO but 2nd best and that is why I will stop playing it.
If the second best class ( persoally i think its dks) does NOTHING better than the first best class, why play it?
Why cry for it though, when there are easily 2-3 classes that are in a much weaker state. Sorc has never been in a bad spot. It is the only class that has never been in a bad spot. If any class deserves to be in a bad spot, then that class is Sorc, which is still the second best class for all content.
Getting just one spot for 1 ability. "Second best in all content".4 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I have to believe anyone who is a sorc complaining about quiting the class just isn't skilled at sorc. Plain and simple.
If you have skill, where's your screen shots? Where's your videos showing your skill?
Ah, but that's the thing, isn't it. If you show you're skilled at sorc, it's hard to say it's underperforming and needs buffs, isn't it? Hard to say sorc isn't good when you're showing yourself preforming well on it, right? So, enjoy that corner you've painted yourself into.
I've said enough on this topic. I'm sad and embarrassed for my fellow sorc players.
Plenty of people already do. The problem is that most of the proof most players are able to show is them 1vXing noobs.
Against a skilled player, Sorc just isn't good. Shields take full unmitigated damage, and even without crits that's a TON of damage so they're very easy to burst down.
Here's all the flaws with Sorc:
-Shields take full damage and only last 6 seconds AND are expensive. It's pretty easy to keep the pressure on a sorc
-The burst combo is pretty alright but it's so easy for other people to mess it up...and if it gets messed up you're not getting any kills with it. Then you have pretty much all the other classes who throw their DoTs and debuffs on you, spam their spammable, use their "big finisher" to seal the deal and GG.
-Lack of mobility/escape. Sorcs used to have this a la Bolt Escape, but ever since the nerf to it Sorcs can afford to use it maybe twice. And it's certainly not much of an escape when gap closer spam negates it entirely. Not many other classes have a ton of mobility, but my issue is that Sorc used to be THE mobility class and it feels like that part of our identity was stripped away.
-SUSTAIN. Probably the worst part of Sorc. They are legitimately the worst class in the game in terms fo sustain. It feels like I'm just out of MP constantly in both PvP and PvE. It's "kind of" always been this way, but the changes in MW made it more pronounced.
-No healing. Sorc pretty much relies on the restoration staff, and the heal that Sorcs most frequently use may not even always target them in Battlegrounds (and it never helps the person you healed because Healing Ward by itself does almost nothing...you need the other Sorc shields). Every class has some form of proper self healing whereas Sorcs just...don't
Overall, the absolute biggest problem I have with Sorc is that every patch they have a piece of their identity stripped away. As it is now, the class can be described as "nightblade, but worse" because that's almost what the playstyle feels like but without the sustain, mobility, escape, and burst. If I could change 3 things about Sorc, if would be these:
-Either buff shields, or add healing. I would prefer if Shields could add your full resistances or at least half of them onto the shield itself, and/or for ZOS to remove the Battle Spirit penalty on shields since they're far inferior to raw healing and raw damage is just too much for them. I would also prefer if shields lasted their original 20 seconds, or at least 10 seconds a la Empowered Ward.
-Remove the Streak nerf. This never needed to happen in the first place. Not even a little bit.
-Remove the Frags nerf. Give it back its full damage and its stun. At least people had asked for the Streak nerf. No one even asked for the Frags nerf. You just did it. This "hard-hitting abilities shouldn't stun" philosophy is negated by the fact that Dawnbreaker, Master Staff Flame Reach, Incap Strike, etc etc are still in the game. ZOS couldn't even bring themselves to remove the stun on Incap despite Wrobel's philosophy.
If those 3 major nerfs would be reverted, then at least Sorc would have a part of their identity back.
Buff shields? Just how bad are you?
Sorcs have two of the strongest heals in the game. If that ain't enough, there's an entire skill line devoted to healing and it even comes with another cancerous stackable damage shield that heals you while hiding your gameplay deficiencies just like every sorc wants and expects.
As to reverting the streak nerf, I think that's fine.
But let's be fair, Sorc doesn't need any CCs. They are actually counter to the class identity. Sorc is about stacking incredible burst damage, while defending with powerful damage shields, it is not whatsoever a class that is or should be defined by crowd control.
what are the 2 strongest heals we have? and resto obviously requires the resto staff, which is an insane gimp to be be saddled with when ever other class has class heals, nbs and dks have it as their spammable for god sakes
Twilight and Dark Conversion
If you're not slotting a Restro staff then the issue is a failure to adapt.
One being a pet that has to be double barred and kept alive and the other being a 4k heal attached on a cast time ability.
"Two of the strongest heals in the game"4 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭Ive been playing magsorc since I started playing again after one tam, the state the class is in currently is just sad. Sorcs have been made into noob and nb killers in pvp and only shine in pve when it comes to killing large amounts of trash, even then we are arguably out shined by nightblades.
Our sustain is terrible. our burst in pvp is lower and slower than nbs, predictable easily blocked and healed through. heals are sub par to every single class. execute while strong in pvp (one of the FEW things that still gives this class a heartbeat) is weaker than nb in pve by alot. light armor and shield where sorcs find their strength are less favorable to every other class in heavy armor. pve damage and lighting damage are lower than nbs by 10-15k easily. we lack the set support for our class where nbs have sets that are all but tailor made for them with nbs getting a set to utilize every patch while sorcs are still in lambris, juli, necro, mothers sorrow (ill give you siroria is a plus).
Race changed my woodelf thief blade to a highelf mnb geared it out in purple and FIRST dps test I was hitting withing 4k of my highelf magsorc in fully gold gear that I have practiced the rotation of for over a year, while trying to squeeze every last bit of dps out of it.
I really hope update 20 lets gives me a reason to go back to my favorite class
I read this as sorc is not best class in ESO but 2nd best and that is why I will stop playing it.
If the second best class ( persoally i think its dks) does NOTHING better than the first best class, why play it?
because you want to? i always go for the rogues in everygame. i dont go in like "which one is the most OP? this? okay ill play it then"
ninja/kunoichi was said to be the worst class for black desert, i didnt care because class theme and play style, skill effects etc ( i swear im no weeb ) and the design team changed how combat worked and somehow ninjas are the best now. and i still play it. dont care
mages, warlocks, hunters always deal huge amount damage from a safe distance with ease but why play rogue then? cuz i like it. thats it.
but i love how the " this class is op so ill play it" community gets crying because combat team changed something.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You can like whatever you want, Hakan, that doesn't change the fact that raid spots and power rankings aren't influenced by personal preferences. I like the spell casting, greatsword swinging, heavy armored commander-of-undead archtype as well, but that sure as hell won't get me into any competetive environment. And I don't think that overland or quest content is a measuring bar in this game.1 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just leaving this new video. Renowed player FeaR Turbo wanted to truly see how the different classes perform with the same identical trial buffs.
Here are the results.
Magsorcs come dead last, even below mag wardens (with pet)...
As of today, if you play magsorc, you are a liability to your team. That's why all my progression teams ask me to login my less geared NB instead of my main magsorc.
Thanks for posting this. I love logging into the PTS and running into him just to see what he's testing at the moment because it's always something helpful.1 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »You can like whatever you want, Hakan, that doesn't change the fact that raid spots and power rankings aren't influenced by personal preferences. I like the spell casting, greatsword swinging, heavy armored commander-of-undead archtype as well, but that sure as hell won't get me into any competetive environment. And I don't think that overland or quest content is a measuring bar in this game.
if something wrong with the class, im all for fixing it doesnt matter which class it is.
but crying like sorc does only 10 k damage meanwhile mnb deals 100 k with one click and getting hypocrictic(spelling) about how is nb fav child of zos like sorc werent meta for 2 years is very funny. nb got a shade buff which doesnt effect pve and a qol change to grim focus thats it. last two trials are problem.
you can still play magsorc and deal 3-5k less ish damage compared to the mnb.
i also dont want to see nb everywhere. why would i want that? i rather see less nb so i can feel special
so im all for balance.
and again there are lots of problems in here so the paranoid comments and theories are dumbEdited by hakan on September 3, 2018 10:12AM1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭you can still play magsorc and deal 3-5k less ish damage compared to the mnb.
There you have it. Why should a raid leader favour sorcs over mnb when it comes to dds then? If they at least brought something else to the table expect 5% spell crit and one synergy, so that they are actually asked for anything more than one spot, people wouldn't mind the damage difference. But it is what it is right now. And that doesn't has to do anything with paranoia, neither do I believe that sorcs are unplayable, it's just that the meta is very strict these days for a reason.1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »I have to believe anyone who is a sorc complaining about quiting the class just isn't skilled at sorc. Plain and simple.
If you have skill, where's your screen shots? Where's your videos showing your skill?
Ah, but that's the thing, isn't it. If you show you're skilled at sorc, it's hard to say it's underperforming and needs buffs, isn't it? Hard to say sorc isn't good when you're showing yourself preforming well on it, right? So, enjoy that corner you've painted yourself into.
I've said enough on this topic. I'm sad and embarrassed for my fellow sorc players.
Plenty of people already do. The problem is that most of the proof most players are able to show is them 1vXing noobs.
Against a skilled player, Sorc just isn't good. Shields take full unmitigated damage, and even without crits that's a TON of damage so they're very easy to burst down.
Here's all the flaws with Sorc:
-Shields take full damage and only last 6 seconds AND are expensive. It's pretty easy to keep the pressure on a sorc
-The burst combo is pretty alright but it's so easy for other people to mess it up...and if it gets messed up you're not getting any kills with it. Then you have pretty much all the other classes who throw their DoTs and debuffs on you, spam their spammable, use their "big finisher" to seal the deal and GG.
-Lack of mobility/escape. Sorcs used to have this a la Bolt Escape, but ever since the nerf to it Sorcs can afford to use it maybe twice. And it's certainly not much of an escape when gap closer spam negates it entirely. Not many other classes have a ton of mobility, but my issue is that Sorc used to be THE mobility class and it feels like that part of our identity was stripped away.
-SUSTAIN. Probably the worst part of Sorc. They are legitimately the worst class in the game in terms fo sustain. It feels like I'm just out of MP constantly in both PvP and PvE. It's "kind of" always been this way, but the changes in MW made it more pronounced.
-No healing. Sorc pretty much relies on the restoration staff, and the heal that Sorcs most frequently use may not even always target them in Battlegrounds (and it never helps the person you healed because Healing Ward by itself does almost nothing...you need the other Sorc shields). Every class has some form of proper self healing whereas Sorcs just...don't
Overall, the absolute biggest problem I have with Sorc is that every patch they have a piece of their identity stripped away. As it is now, the class can be described as "nightblade, but worse" because that's almost what the playstyle feels like but without the sustain, mobility, escape, and burst. If I could change 3 things about Sorc, if would be these:
-Either buff shields, or add healing. I would prefer if Shields could add your full resistances or at least half of them onto the shield itself, and/or for ZOS to remove the Battle Spirit penalty on shields since they're far inferior to raw healing and raw damage is just too much for them. I would also prefer if shields lasted their original 20 seconds, or at least 10 seconds a la Empowered Ward.
-Remove the Streak nerf. This never needed to happen in the first place. Not even a little bit.
-Remove the Frags nerf. Give it back its full damage and its stun. At least people had asked for the Streak nerf. No one even asked for the Frags nerf. You just did it. This "hard-hitting abilities shouldn't stun" philosophy is negated by the fact that Dawnbreaker, Master Staff Flame Reach, Incap Strike, etc etc are still in the game. ZOS couldn't even bring themselves to remove the stun on Incap despite Wrobel's philosophy.
If those 3 major nerfs would be reverted, then at least Sorc would have a part of their identity back.
Buff shields? Just how bad are you?
Sorcs have two of the strongest heals in the game. If that ain't enough, there's an entire skill line devoted to healing and it even comes with another cancerous stackable damage shield that heals you while hiding your gameplay deficiencies just like every sorc wants and expects.
As to reverting the streak nerf, I think that's fine.
But let's be fair, Sorc doesn't need any CCs. They are actually counter to the class identity. Sorc is about stacking incredible burst damage, while defending with powerful damage shields, it is not whatsoever a class that is or should be defined by crowd control.
what are the 2 strongest heals we have? and resto obviously requires the resto staff, which is an insane gimp to be be saddled with when ever other class has class heals, nbs and dks have it as their spammable for god sakes
Twilight and Dark Conversion
If you're not slotting a Restro staff then the issue is a failure to adapt.
Twilight only works if your running pet builds, pet builds are useless in pvp. Dark convert is a terrible ability, especially now with meditate from the psijic line. If I have time to use dark convert i have time to use meditate and get all 3 of my pools to max. As for not slotting a resto, name ONE other class that has to run a healing staff to get heals. Not does, but HAS too. Dks and nbs have heals as spammables for god sake and templars and wardens i dont think i need to mention there heals. Also all of the good resto heals are able to jump to not you if you have even one other person around1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Ive been playing magsorc since I started playing again after one tam, the state the class is in currently is just sad. Sorcs have been made into noob and nb killers in pvp and only shine in pve when it comes to killing large amounts of trash, even then we are arguably out shined by nightblades.
Our sustain is terrible. our burst in pvp is lower and slower than nbs, predictable easily blocked and healed through. heals are sub par to every single class. execute while strong in pvp (one of the FEW things that still gives this class a heartbeat) is weaker than nb in pve by alot. light armor and shield where sorcs find their strength are less favorable to every other class in heavy armor. pve damage and lighting damage are lower than nbs by 10-15k easily. we lack the set support for our class where nbs have sets that are all but tailor made for them with nbs getting a set to utilize every patch while sorcs are still in lambris, juli, necro, mothers sorrow (ill give you siroria is a plus).
Race changed my woodelf thief blade to a highelf mnb geared it out in purple and FIRST dps test I was hitting withing 4k of my highelf magsorc in fully gold gear that I have practiced the rotation of for over a year, while trying to squeeze every last bit of dps out of it.
I really hope update 20 lets gives me a reason to go back to my favorite class
I read this as sorc is not best class in ESO but 2nd best and that is why I will stop playing it.
If the second best class ( persoally i think its dks) does NOTHING better than the first best class, why play it?
Why cry for it though, when there are easily 2-3 classes that are in a much weaker state. Sorc has never been in a bad spot. It is the only class that has never been in a bad spot. If any class deserves to be in a bad spot, then that class is Sorc, which is still the second best class for all content.
I quit the game in 2015 because when you asked to join a trial as a sorc they'd laugh you in face. And no, it's not "second best", because the other classes can be respecced and become competitive in another role, whereas sorcs nowadays suck at everything non DPS. It's "be viable DPS or go home".Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »you can still play magsorc and deal 3-5k less ish damage compared to the mnb.
There you have it. Why should a raid leader favour sorcs over mnb when it comes to dds then? If they at least brought something else to the table expect 5% spell crit and one synergy, so that they are actually asked for anything more than one spot, people wouldn't mind the damage difference. But it is what it is right now. And that doesn't has to do anything with paranoia, neither do I believe that sorcs are unplayable, it's just that the meta is very strict these days for a reason.
i dont say "its just 5k dps deal with it" but its nothing big that forces everyone to switch something else. group leaders and elitist does that.
and i agree i would like there is no difference in dps between classes. only the playstyle should be different so everyone can enjoy.
posts implying " there is like 50 k dps difference" and " nb is fav child, even some zos executives have a naked full wall poster of a argonian nb" kind of posts are hilarious thats it. ( yes i exaggerated a bit)0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just leaving this new video. Renowed player FeaR Turbo wanted to truly see how the different classes perform with the same identical trial buffs.
Here are the results.
Magsorcs come dead last, even below mag wardens (with pet)...
As of today, if you play magsorc, you are a liability to your team. That's why all my progression teams ask me to login my less geared NB instead of my main magsorc.
LOL. This is rich, maybe now people will actually believe usValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
WhitePawPrints✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs have reigned supreme for over three years now. I understand many people only play the strongest class, and mag sorcs are notorious for being the easiest to play, but maybe you should try another class now.
Many long time players have mutiple characters of all classes. Shouldn’t be an issue for you unless you only played the most powerful class for more than three years straight.
Magsorcs in my guild pull 40k DPS easy on self buffed test dummies. We just don’t encourage mag sorcs because few players know how to control their pets.
EDIT: LOL the magsorc tears. "We don't want to reroll, even though we told that to every other class for years! We can't pull 49k dps like magblades so we give up! Wah wah wah!" If you want to run with the guild that have restrictions of magblades only, then roll a *** magblade and quit crying about it! Or join a guild where 44k magsorcs are accepted. Quit crying your pitifiul little eyes out because you're not the strongest anymore... whiney b!tches.
Btw, in group DPS, our magsorcs hit 54k plus. Seriously a git gud issue, or stop crying about it and reroll... of course, other classes require more than a 3 button rotation so you all will have a hard time.Edited by WhitePawPrints on September 5, 2018 4:14AM2 -
antihero727✭✭✭✭✭Currently, playing a magicka sorcerer in PVP is more difficult than ever before.
Though it is still manageable if timing the rotation right and by running a very strong sustain build.
PVE wise, magicka sorcerer is more decent but it still lacks great deal of DPS compared to other classes/builds.
We can only hope that ZOS will improve the class in update 20, but based on past history of changes to the Sorcerer class it is unlikely that they will.
mDKs had to endure a whole year after Morrowind as one of the worst dps classes in terms of sustain, before they were made viable again after Summerset. My guess is just wait until the next expansion of ESO launches in a year.
You would think so but in the dev discussion on the forums they are going to be “adjusteing overperfoming shields and skills” for sorc. So it’s going to get far worse than better for the near future. I have been loving my MNB since shelving my sorc.Veldrn-AD Magica Sorc
Bizarro Veldrn-AD Stam Sorc
Antiherro-AD Stam DK
Antihero-AD Magplar
Aww Crit-AD Magblade
AD Since PC beta
On A lag free vacation
for the near and far future2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WhitePawPrints wrote: »Sorcs have reigned supreme for over three years now. I understand many people only play the strongest class, and mag sorcs are notorious for being the easiest to play, but maybe you should try another class now.
Many long time players have mutiple characters of all classes. Shouldn’t be an issue for you unless you only played the most powerful class for more than three years straight.
Magsorcs in my guild pull 40k DPS easy on self buffed test dummies. We just don’t encourage mag sorcs because few players know how to control their pets.
So much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin...
How about with the fact that you say Sorcs should have to reroll just because they're not happy with the state of things.
I haven't made any new characters because I was happy with my Sorc. It is my first ever character and the playstyle had been fun but it is extremely painful watching a class you once loved to death get beaten down with each and every patch with nerf after nerf just to satisfy the masses that refuse to learn how to play.Edited by Valrien on September 4, 2018 1:43AMValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WhitePawPrints wrote: »Sorcs have reigned supreme for over three years now. I understand many people only play the strongest class, and mag sorcs are notorious for being the easiest to play, but maybe you should try another class now.
Many long time players have mutiple characters of all classes. Shouldn’t be an issue for you unless you only played the most powerful class for more than three years straight.
Magsorcs in my guild pull 40k DPS easy on self buffed test dummies. We just don’t encourage mag sorcs because few players know how to control their pets.
"Just reroll" is your solution to balance issues? Good to know. I will quote you now everytime a balance discussion comes up.1 -
LordDov✭✭We have a magsorc in one of my pve raid guilds that frequently out parses some very good magblades in our guild .PC EU - CP 900+ All trials HM
LordDov DKtank Flawless Conqueror , Voice of Reason , Dro'mathra Destroyer , Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor and Bringer of Light
DovLord Magblade Flawless Conqueror , Voice of Reason , Dro'mathra Destroyer and Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
Woman of Darker Desires StamDK Flawless Conqueror , Dro'mathra Destroyer and Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor0 -
Rowjoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭why don't you just roll another character ? lol
It's very quick and easy now and actually good fun. Then when Sorcs are buffed you can go back to it 0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭why don't you just roll another character ? lol
It's very quick and easy now and actually good fun. Then when Sorcs are buffed you can go back to it
Dude, it's not like most of us have several toons. I have at least one of each class, but that isn't the point. To tell people to sit it out and stop playing a class is a very underwhelming solution.
Ironically we saw a lot of "Sorcs OP" cries over the summer. I mean if that's the solution, why didn't they just shelfed all their toons, played magsorcs and came back to their main once the balance shifted? This isn't a one way street.
Why am I even responding to this nonsense?1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WhitePawPrints wrote: »Sorcs have reigned supreme for over three years now. I understand many people only play the strongest class, and mag sorcs are notorious for being the easiest to play, but maybe you should try another class now.
Many long time players have mutiple characters of all classes. Shouldn’t be an issue for you unless you only played the most powerful class for more than three years straight.
Magsorcs in my guild pull 40k DPS easy on self buffed test dummies. We just don’t encourage mag sorcs because few players know how to control their pets.
Sure they pull 40k DPS, and on their magblade they pull 49k though. That means, if you create a NB only team, it'll perform like you had a team of 13, not of 12. In some tight encounters that's the difference between wiping at 5% and making it.Edited by Vahrokh on September 4, 2018 8:52AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭why don't you just roll another character ? lol
It's very quick and easy now and actually good fun. Then when Sorcs are buffed you can go back to it
I recall dozens of threads PER DAY crying nerf on sorc. Why didn't they hear your advice and just reroll?Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1