theyancey wrote: »

It really is suckified for solo PvE players. You have one daily quest to help level. I an at lvl 7 and despair of maxing it out before I die of boredom.

dont forget the "this one's on me quest".....that is still worth doing for the undaunted xp

theyancey wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

It really is suckified for solo PvE players. You have one daily quest to help level. I an at lvl 7 and despair of maxing it out before I die of boredom.

Then do group content. You're playing an MMO. Stop living out your Kirito fantasy and interact with some folks.

I do not like you people. I refuse to associate with you. I will play my way and to Oblivion with any who suggest otherwise.

That's the spirit! Then again if all you want is the solo stuff no real reason for undaunted anyway except the achievement. And if you really do not like us people force us to carry you through a dungeon as you level the skill line. That'll teach us a lesson.

sh0wman wrote: »

It just feels like every time I create a character, even though it's intended for PVP only, I'm forced to grind this annoying PVE only skill line because they hid one of the best passives in the game behind it.
If you don't know what I'm talking about it's the 2%, or possibly 6% depending on your ligh/heavy/medium armor usage, buff to all of your stats.
6% is not a small number and in late game PVP it absolutely makes a difference.
So it's quite tedious that every single time I level up a PVP character I also have to find a way to PVE with him, with PVP gear... Not exactly a thrilling experience.
It makes absolutely no sense to hide a buff like this behind a skill line that is so grindy and only PVE oriented.
Either make undaunted easier to level or remove the buff all together.

• You're not forced to do jack.
• 6% is a very small number. It's a free glyph, at best.
  • At 20k stat, it's an extra 1200. At 40k, it's an extra 2400.
  • That's not even one more light attack or one more roll dodge.
  • That 6% stat increase is going to increase DPS < 2-4%, and that's if you're constantly DPSing.
  • If you're not running 5-1-1, those numbers drop in consequence even further.
• You can get to the 3% mark very quickly by Undaunted 7.
• You can hit Undaunted 9 in 25 hours* or less.

It's no different than Lorebooks, skyshards, or gear grinding, and it's not that damned hard.

9 times out of 10, 6% is not going to be the difference between living and dying.

Do some randoms, do some pledges, do some dailies. Quit complaining.

EDIT: *And that's PuGging it via RDF.

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance war grind for pvers.

Why would you grind AvA as PvE player?
Worst scenario is if you are stamina character that need caltrops, but you can get that in few hours just logging into BGs, no need to win or anything.

I dont mind undaunted too much, to be honest. Maybe zenimax could make undaunted 10 unlock ultimate of some sort.

Warhorn, purge and magicka recovery passive from barrier (need rank 9 to get it iirc) for tanks and healers.
Caltrops and especially vigor are pretty much a must for a stamina char.
Even magicka bomb used to be very good in pve and people grinded it.

I'm just saying that the grind is pretty much comparable. And in dungeons you also get exp for kills and a ton of loot to sell or decon. I personally dont see a problem either way, it's not that much of an effort for BiS stuff.

Really, leveling the undaunted tree is a side-effect of getting keys for the monster shoulders. The passives are nice, but keys to those chests is why I do the dailies. I want that light Earthgore shoulder. Just drop , damn you.

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance war grind for pvers.

Why would you grind AvA as PvE player?
Worst scenario is if you are stamina character that need caltrops, but you can get that in few hours just logging into BGs, no need to win or anything.

I dont mind undaunted too much, to be honest. Maybe zenimax could make undaunted 10 unlock ultimate of some sort.

Warhorn?

Barrier?

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance war grind for pvers.

Why would you grind AvA as PvE player?
Worst scenario is if you are stamina character that need caltrops, but you can get that in few hours just logging into BGs, no need to win or anything.

I dont mind undaunted too much, to be honest. Maybe zenimax could make undaunted 10 unlock ultimate of some sort.

Warhorn, purge and magicka recovery passive from barrier (need rank 9 to get it iirc) for tanks and healers.
Caltrops and especially vigor are pretty much a must for a stamina char.
Even magicka bomb used to be very good in pve and people grinded it.

I'm just saying that the grind is pretty much comparable. And in dungeons you also get exp for kills and a ton of loot to sell or decon. I personally dont see a problem either way, it's not that much of an effort for BiS stuff.

for most people its not even remotely comparable. now if they make delve, public dungeons and world bosses count towards undaunted? THEN it will be comparable. doing dungeons on normal and completing first time quests for nearly all the normal dungeons? got me mid way through undaunted 3 when I was leveling my templar. (that's counting the dungeon damage dealer and dungeon healer achieves). just saying.

meanwhile it took me like.. an hour maybe? 2 castle sieges to get far enough into alliance rank to unlock warhorn for that very same templar. if I wanted to get caltrops, it would probably take another hour, maybe 2.

Linaleah wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance war grind for pvers.

Why would you grind AvA as PvE player?
Worst scenario is if you are stamina character that need caltrops, but you can get that in few hours just logging into BGs, no need to win or anything.

I dont mind undaunted too much, to be honest. Maybe zenimax could make undaunted 10 unlock ultimate of some sort.

Warhorn, purge and magicka recovery passive from barrier (need rank 9 to get it iirc) for tanks and healers.
Caltrops and especially vigor are pretty much a must for a stamina char.
Even magicka bomb used to be very good in pve and people grinded it.

I'm just saying that the grind is pretty much comparable. And in dungeons you also get exp for kills and a ton of loot to sell or decon. I personally dont see a problem either way, it's not that much of an effort for BiS stuff.

for most people its not even remotely comparable. now if they make delve, public dungeons and world bosses count towards undaunted? THEN it will be comparable. doing dungeons on normal and completing first time quests for nearly all the normal dungeons? got me mid way through undaunted 3 when I was leveling my templar. (that's counting the dungeon damage dealer and dungeon healer achieves). just saying.

meanwhile it took me like.. an hour maybe? 2 castle sieges to get far enough into alliance rank to unlock warhorn for that very same templar. if I wanted to get caltrops, it would probably take another hour, maybe 2.

Public and delve bosses are a joke. You're already gifted Dungeon Damage Dealer/Blocker/Healer as it is, because they're still on the 1.5 system and were never adjusted to the x10 values.

Those alone will get you 160 rep, which puts you at the beginning of Rank 3. So unless you only set foot in one or two, there's no way.

You get 390 points just for norm clears of all non-DLC dungeons. That gets you to ~5 and a ton of skillpoints. By then, you're near able to do pledges. Get the occasional bonus achieve listed above, and it doesn't take long. Roll over to CP and clear just half of the Vet versions, and there's another 200 rep.

If you were only halfway through 3 while leveling, you weren't doing the right content, or perhaps any at all.

If you did nothing but the daily and the occasional RDF daily, you can still reach 9 in short order.

If the passives are significant enough to truly need, they're significant enough to go out and earn. Not sure why everything thinks you should be able to max a skill line, especially a semi-useful one, in < 1 day.

EDIT: You get 5 rep just for showing up, and another 50 for hitting Rank 5.

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Xerge wrote: »

If you lost a pvp fight due to lack of 6% i think you should git good?

^To be honest, it couldn't be more accurate than this here.

If you know how to build your character up and have a build which works for you, you don't necessary even need undaunted passives in order to make your build powerful. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that undaunted passives would be useless, but they aren't definitely 100 % "must have" passives. If you died during PvP combat, lack of undaunted passives are not reason why you died.
A reason why I go for 5/1/1 gear set up is not for undaunted passives, I go for medium/light/heavy armor passives instead, those are valuable. Most of my PvP characters does not even have Undaunted passives unlocked.

As an independent variable, the same could be said about gear or any other modifier tho
you don't need anything better than green gears or complete sets if you know how to play well enough your build will be powerful enough to make up for those short comings

but a 6% increase to all three of my core stats in the remaining game mode where hybrid builds are feasible is too useful to seriously simply disregard,
my characters that have the passive unlocked consistently perform better than those that do not, because my skill level is the same whether my passive stat pool has a handicap or not

I also play with hybrid and I do agree that those kind of builds benefits a lot from undaunted passives since hybrids uses all attribute bars in offense and defense.
However majority of PvP players does not seem to play with hybrids a lot, so for pure stam/magicka builds those passives does not matter too much after all.

Fiktius wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Xerge wrote: »

If you lost a pvp fight due to lack of 6% i think you should git good?

^To be honest, it couldn't be more accurate than this here.

If you know how to build your character up and have a build which works for you, you don't necessary even need undaunted passives in order to make your build powerful. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that undaunted passives would be useless, but they aren't definitely 100 % "must have" passives. If you died during PvP combat, lack of undaunted passives are not reason why you died.
A reason why I go for 5/1/1 gear set up is not for undaunted passives, I go for medium/light/heavy armor passives instead, those are valuable. Most of my PvP characters does not even have Undaunted passives unlocked.

As an independent variable, the same could be said about gear or any other modifier tho
you don't need anything better than green gears or complete sets if you know how to play well enough your build will be powerful enough to make up for those short comings

but a 6% increase to all three of my core stats in the remaining game mode where hybrid builds are feasible is too useful to seriously simply disregard,
my characters that have the passive unlocked consistently perform better than those that do not, because my skill level is the same whether my passive stat pool has a handicap or not

I also play with hybrid and I do agree that those kind of builds benefits a lot from undaunted passives since hybrids uses all attribute bars in offense and defense.
However majority of PvP players does not seem to play with hybrids a lot, so for pure stam/magicka builds those passives does not matter that much after all.

Majority of pure stam/magicka builds still need to build the lesser stat pools to manage things like buff and utility skills and roll dodge/break free tho
Every PvP character benefits from the Undaunted passive

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Xerge wrote: »

If you lost a pvp fight due to lack of 6% i think you should git good?

^To be honest, it couldn't be more accurate than this here.

If you know how to build your character up and have a build which works for you, you don't necessary even need undaunted passives in order to make your build powerful. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that undaunted passives would be useless, but they aren't definitely 100 % "must have" passives. If you died during PvP combat, lack of undaunted passives are not reason why you died.
A reason why I go for 5/1/1 gear set up is not for undaunted passives, I go for medium/light/heavy armor passives instead, those are valuable. Most of my PvP characters does not even have Undaunted passives unlocked.

As an independent variable, the same could be said about gear or any other modifier tho
you don't need anything better than green gears or complete sets if you know how to play well enough your build will be powerful enough to make up for those short comings

but a 6% increase to all three of my core stats in the remaining game mode where hybrid builds are feasible is too useful to seriously simply disregard,
my characters that have the passive unlocked consistently perform better than those that do not, because my skill level is the same whether my passive stat pool has a handicap or not

I also play with hybrid and I do agree that those kind of builds benefits a lot from undaunted passives since hybrids uses all attribute bars in offense and defense.
However majority of PvP players does not seem to play with hybrids a lot, so for pure stam/magicka builds those passives does not matter that much after all.

Majority of pure stam/magicka builds still need to build the lesser stat pools to manage things like buff and utility skills and roll dodge/break free tho
Every PvP character benefits from the Undaunted passive

What, excactly does that extra ~1000 minor stat do for you, because most builds aren't going to see much more than base + tri-stat-food level on their secondary stat.

Like I said before, It's effectively a free glyph for each stat.