Is it just me or is the "undaunted" skill line incredibly annoying?

sh0wman · August 2018

It just feels like every time I create a character, even though it's intended for PVP only, I'm forced to grind this annoying PVE only skill line because they hid one of the best passives in the game behind it.
If you don't know what I'm talking about it's the 2%, or possibly 6% depending on your ligh/heavy/medium armor usage, buff to all of your stats.
6% is not a small number and in late game PVP it absolutely makes a difference.
So it's quite tedious that every single time I level up a PVP character I also have to find a way to PVE with him, with PVP gear... Not exactly a thrilling experience.
It makes absolutely no sense to hide a buff like this behind a skill line that is so grindy and only PVE oriented.
Either make undaunted easier to level or remove the buff all together.

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance war grind for pvers.

Valrien · August 2018

Yeah. Its tedious, but at least you level it by actually doing stuff unlike skill lines like Mages' Guild

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Yeah. Its tedious, but at least you level it by actually doing stuff unless skill lines like Mages' Guild

Or Psijic order XD

Valrien · August 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Yeah. Its tedious, but at least you level it by actually doing stuff unlike skill lines like Mages' Guild

Or Psijic order XD

At least Psijic has the Augur. I was laughing the whole way through :P

sh0wman · August 2018

Right, it's fast under PVE conditions, but what I'm saying is if my character is using 2h/bow, and has sustain sets on which aren't that great in PVE, he's not really going to be able to do most of that content.
Or at the very least he's going to struggle to do so.
Yes, I can manage to do the non-dlc pledges in vet mode if the group is decent enough, but it's still a lengthy process involving time wasted in PVE with a character that was never meant to do any PVE in the first place.

molecule · August 2018

Yep, very tedious.

Made far worse by the current que times for dungeons ~45minutes.

Even on normal mode , just for the 10 undaunted points, you are looking at close to 4 hours to do the 3 dungeons.

Atleast BogRoll gives you 10 easy points

Valrien · August 2018

sh0wman wrote: »

Right, it's fast under PVE conditions, but what I'm saying is if my character is using 2h/bow, and has sustain sets on which aren't that great in PVE, he's not really going to be able to do most of that content.
Or at the very least he's going to struggle to do so.
Yes, I can manage to do the non-dlc pledges in vet mode if the group is decent enough, but it's still a lengthy process involving time wasted in PVE with a character that was never meant to do any PVE in the first place.

Just make a PvE build. I honestly never understand why people don't level for both. It's not difficult while grinding to slot one of each class skill line, and one of each weapon line that you intend to use.

Yeah sure it's a PvP character. But pretty much every weapon is used in PvP in some way or another so why not try to use everything so you're not SOL when you need to use those skills?

Krayl · August 2018

If you do a dungeon on vet and do the hard mode its a big chunk. Kill the optional bosses to ensure clear achiev. It really doesn't take that long to get to undaunted 9. Especially if you have guild/friends and/or are willing to tank/heal. Do the quest along the way for a skill point.

It seems like it takes a lot longer than it actually does because if you're running the same dungeons over and over again you're not gaining.

I'm not sure what's so bad about having to make some effort for a passive you say yourself is "one of the best in the game".

"I want the best things in the game but I don't want to actually have to do anything to get it" Seems to be the mantra of these forums.

Raammzzaa · August 2018

Yes, I agree. However, as other have said, I find doing the mage’s guild line the most grindy. With the undaunted at least I don’t really mind doing the dungeons. In the case of the mage line it’s just straight grinding going to places on a map to read the lore books.

madchuska83 · August 2018

Why do I have to go into PvP to get Caltrops, Purge, Vigor, and Warhorn? These aren't skills only useful in a PvP setting. They are required for end-game PvE content.

Ah well; At least I can relish the thought that you PvPers have to suffer through the same thing for two little passives.

TheShadowScout · August 2018

sh0wman wrote: »

It just feels like every time I create a character, even though it's intended for PVP only, I'm forced to grind this annoying PVE only skill line because they hid one of the best passives in the game behind it...

Now you know how the PvE people feel about having to PvP for Caltrops and Vigor!
...
Yeah, it may be annoying, but the scales are balanced. You will either do the dungeon crawling to get there, or you will decide
this or that alt isn't worth the effort. Just like every PvE player has to make their choice about the PvP skills.

And really, not like you don't get other rewards for doing dungeons too, right? Also, I do hear that guilds often do dungeon runs... that is true, is it not? So there. Not that hard after all, yes.

Kanar · August 2018

Raammzzaa wrote: »

Yes, I agree. However, as other have said, I find doing the mage’s guild line the most grindy. With the undaunted at least I don’t really mind doing the dungeons. In the case of the mage line it’s just straight grinding going to places on a map to read the lore books.

To make it more fun there should be a short test after each book, to prove that you read it. If you fail the test, no xp!

Linaleah · August 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance wat grind for pvers.

not. even. remotely. I can repair keep walls for a few hours and level my pvp skill lines enough to unlock the skills I actualy need. it doesn't require an organized group, I can just join whatever pug is currently running and be just as successful. meanwhile doing that speedrun_hardmode_completion achievements requires specific 3 other people who are on the same page as you are, on the same schedule as you are and all 4 of you need to have enough of an ability/knowledge to actualy be able to DO those achievement runs.

I used to grumble about being forced into pvp just to get couple of skills that are good in pve. no more. even as a pve player - pvp skill lines are far FAR easier and faster to level to the point where you have the skills needed, vs leveling undaunted.

undaunted is the singe WORST skill line in this game to level for vast majority of players.

IMO delves and public dungeons completion should award undaunted xp. after all if doing a delve is good enough for an undaunted daily and since those dungeon damage/healing abilities can also be acquired in delves.. it makes no sense that delves themselves do not award undaunted xp

ArchMikem · August 2018

Every PvE player has to grind Cyrodiil for Vigor and Caltrops.

MerlinPendragon · August 2018

Everyone wants everything for free. Unreal.

Starlock · August 2018

It does seem like there's room to add some additional sources of undaunted experience. These other sources would fit with the theme, I think:

Gain 5 undaunted XP for each cleared delve (10 for group delves in Craglorn and delves in Cyrodiil with 2+ bosses)
Gain 10 undaunted XP for each cleared public dungeon
Gain 10 undaunted XP for each cleared world boss
Gain 5 undaunted XP for each world boss kill
Gain 1 undaunted XP for each delve boss kill (2 for group delves in Craglorn)

(values are suggested; not sure what would be the best allotment)

Smitch_59 · August 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Every PvE player has to grind Cyrodiil for Vigor and Caltrops.

I don't. I PvE exclusively, and I decided long ago that I don't need Vigor or Caltrops badly enough to suffer through PvP. I've learned to live without those skills.

Valrien · August 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, its pretty fast if you do speedrun+hardmode+completion achievements. Pretty much the same as alliance wat grind for pvers.

not. even. remotely. I can repair keep walls for a few hours and level my pvp skill lines enough to unlock the skills I actualy need. it doesn't require an organized group, I can just join whatever pug is currently running and be just as successful. meanwhile doing that speedrun_hardmode_completion achievements requires specific 3 other people who are on the same page as you are, on the same schedule as you are and all 4 of you need to have enough of an ability/knowledge to actualy be able to DO those achievement runs.

I used to grumble about being forced into pvp just to get couple of skills that are good in pve. no more. even as a pve player - pvp skill lines are far FAR easier and faster to level to the point where you have the skills needed, vs leveling undaunted.

undaunted is the singe WORST skill line in this game to level for vast majority of players.

IMO delves and public dungeons completion should award undaunted xp. after all if doing a delve is good enough for an undaunted daily and since those dungeon damage/healing abilities can also be acquired in delves.. it makes no sense that delves themselves do not award undaunted xp

1. Mage Guild is the worst
2. I'm almost positive they do?

theyancey · August 2018

It really is suckified for solo PvE players. You have one daily quest to help level. I an at lvl 7 and despair of maxing it out before I die of boredom.

Valrien · August 2018

theyancey wrote: »

It really is suckified for solo PvE players. You have one daily quest to help level. I an at lvl 7 and despair of maxing it out before I die of boredom.

Then do group content. You're playing an MMO. Stop living out your Kirito fantasy and interact with some folks.

kringled_1 · August 2018

It's really not that bad. My latest vet character hit Undaunted 9 on the 11th day after I started doing dungeons, so no repeat pledges. Started out at I think 3 from doing Bolgrul's delve dailies (just once each, needed all but 1-2 of the skyshards anyways). All base game dungeons were done in vet HM, all pugged with me as the tank. A few I had a dps friend along but since this was her first run at dungeons, she's not exactly skip mechanics level of dps. Some were speed runs, some were no-death, some were a bit iffier as happens when you pug dungeons. I did try to make sure we got all optional bosses at least when I knew which ones they were. I didn't do every single dungeon in those 11 days, did maybe about 17-18 in all I think. And I needed the skill points anyways. Being able to tank does make the queue go a lot faster; given that a lot of PvP builds you may want the option to run S+B anyways, it's not really that much of a sacrifice.

theyancey · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

It really is suckified for solo PvE players. You have one daily quest to help level. I an at lvl 7 and despair of maxing it out before I die of boredom.

Then do group content. You're playing an MMO. Stop living out your Kirito fantasy and interact with some folks.

I do not like you people. I refuse to associate with you. I will play my way and to Oblivion with any who suggest otherwise.

Kelces · August 2018

Maybe it's not that annoying, when you start out visiting every public dungeon first. There is a lot you can gain from it to advance the skill line, aswell as getting skill points for every group event there.

Valrien · August 2018

theyancey wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

It really is suckified for solo PvE players. You have one daily quest to help level. I an at lvl 7 and despair of maxing it out before I die of boredom.

Then do group content. You're playing an MMO. Stop living out your Kirito fantasy and interact with some folks.

I do not like you people. I refuse to associate with you. I will play my way and to Oblivion with any who suggest otherwise.

Then play a different game?

You're shouting that you hate water while you jump into the swimming pool.

JimmyJuJu · August 2018

I rather like Energy Orbs for my PvP healer. Those orbs are great for back flag keep defense and front flag offense because it's an AoE heal that ticks every 0.5s. Fire and forget. The synergy also returns a good amount of mag/stam. The rest of the skill tree is...meh.

Smitch_59 · August 2018

theyancey wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

It really is suckified for solo PvE players. You have one daily quest to help level. I an at lvl 7 and despair of maxing it out before I die of boredom.

Then do group content. You're playing an MMO. Stop living out your Kirito fantasy and interact with some folks.

I do not like you people. I refuse to associate with you. I will play my way and to Oblivion with any who suggest otherwise.

^This. Single-player games rule! Can't wait for Bethesda to make a new single-player TES game so I can ditch ESO. Until then, I'll play solo, thank you very much.

max_only · August 2018

I’m not a pvper and I also hate leveling Undaunted.

Tannus15 · August 2018

@Linaleah That's largely because you understand how Cyrodiil and AP gain works. You look at the map and go "oh, this is happening, i'll go over there. oh, that's so and so, i'll follow them."
I remember reading something like that ages ago and going to Cyrodiil and trying to repair keep walls for AP "for a few hours" to get caltrops. Yeah naaaah. That's not how it actually works.

These days when I need caltrops / vigor I just Q for random BGs and ruin my teammates day by being a scrub PvE'er. Sorry guys, I'm dead weight, but it's 8k AP for a loss. that's a lot of keep walls.

On a side note I feel the opposite about undaunted. Grab a few friends from guild chat and speed run, no death, hm a few dungeons, get the dungeon quest skill points as a bonus and move on. "It's so easy, why do people complain about this?"

Biro123 · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

It really is suckified for solo PvE players. You have one daily quest to help level. I an at lvl 7 and despair of maxing it out before I die of boredom.

Then do group content. You're playing an MMO. Stop living out your Kirito fantasy and interact with some folks.

I do not like you people. I refuse to associate with you. I will play my way and to Oblivion with any who suggest otherwise.

Then play a different game?

You're shouting that you hate water while you jump into the swimming pool.

Not necessarily. 90% of the content in this game can be done completely solo, and is so easy that it actually discourages grouping.

Kingslayer513 · August 2018

Starlock wrote: »

It does seem like there's room to add some additional sources of undaunted experience. These other sources would fit with the theme, I think:
Gain 5 undaunted XP for each cleared delve (10 for group delves in Craglorn and delves in Cyrodiil with 2+ bosses)

Gain 10 undaunted XP for each cleared public dungeon

Gain 10 undaunted XP for each cleared world boss

Gain 5 undaunted XP for each world boss kill

Gain 1 undaunted XP for each delve boss kill (2 for group delves in Craglorn)

(values are suggested; not sure what would be the best allotment)

Absolutely agree. At the very least, public dungeons and world bosses need to count.