Problem with new motif styles being available immediately from the crown store

snegurd · August 2018

One thing that has always bothered me is that when new motif styles come out they can immediately be purchased in the crown store - especially for hard to obtain motif styles like those from DLC dungeons or trials. This takes away from the achievement of being able to obtain the motifs in game ad both reduces in-game prices and lessens the prestige of completing challenging content.

It would be much better, in my opinion, if there was a couple weeks delay between new motif styles being released in-game and the styles being available in the crown store. This would allow players to obtain the motifs in-game and either show them off or sell them at higher prices for the weeks when they are not available in the crown store. Then players who really want the motifs but either can't complete the required content or can't afford them in guild stores will have access to them through the crown store after the requisite delay.

The obvious reason this would not happen is ZOS would think it reduces their crown store revenue, but I actually think having the motifs available through "in-game" only methods for a few weeks will actually make people covet the motifs more and might increase demand when they are released in the crown store.

More incentive to run content AND more crown store cash for ZOS... seems like a win-win to me.

Starlock · August 2018

I'm glad they're doing this.

Some players who are into character design and aesthetics are not interested in (or cannot do) "end game" group content. Some players also lack the gold intake to reasonably afford to buy 14 pages of a motif from other players, especially for DLC content (where the asking prices tend to be exorbitantly high at times). If a person falls into one or both of these categories, the new motifs are essentially inaccessible. Putting it in the crown store makes it accessible.

That said, a delay in crown store release wouldn't be particularly bothersome.

idk · August 2018

A player named code with some numbers made some very good points in the subject about 3 months ago.

Starlock wrote: »

I'm glad they're doing this.

Some players who are into character design and aesthetics are not interested in (or cannot do) "end game" group content. Some players also lack the gold intake to reasonably afford to buy 14 pages of a motif from other players, especially for DLC content (where the asking prices tend to be exorbitantly high at times). If a person falls into one or both of these categories, the new motifs are essentially inaccessible. Putting it in the crown store makes it accessible.

That said, a delay in crown store release wouldn't be particularly bothersome.

Zos has pretty much offered motifs in the down store weeks after they were released in game first manning it accessible to all via in game mechanics or by soending real world money.

By eliminating or greatly reducing the delay that effectively eliminates the in game mechanics and makes things less about playing the game and more about spending real world money.

snegurd · August 2018

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is there is currently no delay between motifs being released in-game and them being released in the crown store.

Katahdin · August 2018

Can't wait for the Welkynar motif but I will wait for it. No way I'm gona farm CR 1000 times or pay 500K per page.

Acrolas · August 2018

Coveting is a wrongful desire for something, a word signifying that somebody is willing to use illegal means to obtain something they can't otherwise have.

So not exactly a word you want to casually throw around in an argument.

The rest of the argument is what, ZOS is greedy and self-serving because they won't let some random people in the game be greedy and self-serving in their own preferred style of gatekeeping? ZOS can lease Elder Scrolls intellectual property however they want. No matter how you acquire anything in the game, crown store or otherwise, you don't own it.

If I want to use 5,000 crowns and never think about stepping foot in Cloudrest with the intent to farm, that's my business. If you enjoy that content and want to enjoy the motif as a bonus for doing that content, great. But I don't have any sympathy for opportunists, and ZOS certainly doesn't have to give them a head start.

EvilCroc · August 2018

Reducing prestige of completing something is good. It lessens elitism. Pride is one of the deadly sins, you know.

Jhalin · August 2018

They don’t want people to earn it in game. Every aspect of this implementation was designed solely to push people to the crown store

Nestor · August 2018

If you want to complain about price deflation, the Outfit system did more to depress prices than the crown store. Now we only need one character to know the motif. Of course Master Writ drip rates are affected by known morifs, but not everyone is chasing those. Yes I meant to say drip.

Anyway, I still see 10K to 20K up to 30K for the unicorn motifs. More than enough to profit from motif farming.

snegurd · August 2018

Acrolas wrote: »

Coveting is a wrongful desire for something, a word signifying that somebody is willing to use illegal means to obtain something they can't otherwise have.

So not exactly a word you want to casually throw around in an argument.

The rest of the argument is what, ZOS is greedy and self-serving because they won't let some random people in the game be greedy and self-serving in their own preferred style of gatekeeping? ZOS can lease Elder Scrolls intellectual property however they want. No matter how you acquire anything in the game, crown store or otherwise, you don't own it.

If I want to use 5,000 crowns and never think about stepping foot in Cloudrest with the intent to farm, that's my business. If you enjoy that content and want to enjoy the motif as a bonus for doing that content, great. But I don't have any sympathy for opportunists, and ZOS certainly doesn't have to give them a head start.

I think these are all good points. My use of the word covet was ill-placed, thank you for pointing that out.

Not that it matters for my argument but I personally never sell motifs, only use them or give them to other players I run with who want them. The price issue is just something I've heard from other people and thought was relevant. I simply hold the view that an MMORPG like ESO should reward players for their ability to complete content in-game and one way they could do this is by adding a delay to when motifs are available in the crown store. Maybe the use of skins and titles is enough on that front.

Yexil · August 2018

I don't usually jump into forum discussions, but I'll just leave this here:

Definition of covet (From Miriam-Webster)
coveted; coveting; covets
transitive verb
1 : to wish for earnestly - "covet an award"
2 : to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably - e.g. "The king's brother coveted the throne."

He had discovered a great law of human action, without knowing it—namely, that in order to make a man or a boy covet a thing, it is only necessary to make the thing difficult to attain. —Mark Twain, Tom Sawyer, 1876

If the first meaning is suitable for Mark Twain I think it's suitable for a forum post about a game. After all, words possessing multiple meanings is quite common.

Jayne_Doe · August 2018

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to complain about price deflation, the Outfit system did more to depress prices than the crown store. Now we only need one character to know the motif. Of course Master Writ drip rates are affected by known morifs, but not everyone is chasing those. Yes I meant to say drip.

Anyway, I still see 10K to 20K up to 30K for the unicorn motifs. More than enough to profit from motif farming.

But that was the case before, really. You only needed one character to know all motifs, and they could craft for the others. The only reason for other characters to know the motifs was if you wanted to increase their chances for MWs or if you had split your gear crafts across multiple characters.

I don't have a problem with them introducing the motif at the same time as it's put in the game, but I do take issue with the high hurdles they've placed on obtaining the motif in-game. Basically, you're either an elite player who can complete the content to earn these pages, or you have to grind extra gold because the pages will be ultra-rare/expensive, or just go the CS and spend 5000 crowns, if you can afford it. The excessive grind/difficulty for this is nothing more than to drive more players to the CS. Players who would normally either grind for it or grind gold must wait even longer or just fork over the real-world cash.

If you want to argue that they're trying to provide more rewards for doing difficult content, this isn't it, since it's also available in the CS. It seems to be purely a gating mechanic to drive CS sales.

Jhalin · August 2018

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

If you want to complain about price deflation, the Outfit system did more to depress prices than the crown store. Now we only need one character to know the motif. Of course Master Writ drip rates are affected by known morifs, but not everyone is chasing those. Yes I meant to say drip.

Anyway, I still see 10K to 20K up to 30K for the unicorn motifs. More than enough to profit from motif farming.

But that was the case before, really. You only needed one character to know all motifs, and they could craft for the others. The only reason for other characters to know the motifs was if you wanted to increase their chances for MWs or if you had split your gear crafts across multiple characters.

I don't have a problem with them introducing the motif at the same time as it's put in the game, but I do take issue with the high hurdles they've placed on obtaining the motif in-game. Basically, you're either an elite player who can complete the content to earn these pages, or you have to grind extra gold because the pages will be ultra-rare/expensive, or just go the CS and spend 5000 crowns, if you can afford it. The excessive grind/difficulty for this is nothing more than to drive more players to the CS. Players who would normally either grind for it or grind gold must wait even longer or just fork over the real-world cash.

If you want to argue that they're trying to provide more rewards for doing difficult content, this isn't it, since it's also available in the CS. It seems to be purely a gating mechanic to drive CS sales.

It’s not even all of the “elites” that can get it. If you PvP heavily and are very good at it, that is absolutely useless for obtaining this motif that will be used for Master Writs, as opposed to the BG style pages that 1) will never appear for a Master Writ and 2) are actually rather accessible to PvE players

They have completely blocked off anyone but the no-life grind of vCR for a chance to obtain pages they want. Who’s to say this “refine” system with the heavily limited catalyst material will work any different than the BG pages? If it’s all BoP then maybe that random duplicate page will just be destroyed. At best it will sit there useless in your inventory because your crafters already know it, just as a sign of how you totally should’ve just bought it from the Crown Store and save yourself the struggle and RNG fight >_>

code65536 · August 2018

idk wrote: »

A player named code with some numbers

What kind of person chooses a silly name like that? Anyway, this is what that code person wrote a few months ago, with some added emphasis:

This is unprecedented--in the past, ZOS had the courtesy of releasing motifs on the CS after a period of time of exclusive in-game sourcing. Motifs were treated as a way to encourage people to engage with the content and to... well, play the game. But now? Instead of being enticements to play the game, they are enticements to open your wallet. Not only does this cheapen the fruits of gameplay, it also signals an alarming shift from ZOS--from the primacy of gameplay to the primacy of the Crown Store.

Acrolas · August 2018

Yexil wrote: »

If the first meaning is suitable for Mark Twain I think it's suitable for a forum post about a game. After all, words possessing multiple meanings is quite common.

Samuel Clemens thought adultery was suitable and by law of nature, should not be immoral.
So he would purposely leave out any strong negative connotation when using the word.

But I believe it stands that very few people, if any, would go so far as to say they covet anything in this game.
The ones who want something go for it, and the ones who don't, well, generally just write compliant threads about something else entirely.

Perwulf · August 2018

Yeah and they said "We don't want too many items lying in crownstore so we will be removing crown items from time to time to give way for new ones" i.e. limited time items. Ironic isn't?

Charliff1966 · August 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

They don’t want people to earn it in game. Every aspect of this implementation was designed solely to push people to the crown store

And people will buy it otherwise they wouldnt do it.

snegurd · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

This is unprecedented--in the past, ZOS had the courtesy of releasing motifs on the CS after a period of time of exclusive in-game sourcing. Motifs were treated as a way to encourage people to engage with the content and to... well, play the game. But now? Instead of being enticements to play the game, they are enticements to open your wallet. Not only does this cheapen the fruits of gameplay, it also signals an alarming shift from ZOS--from the primacy of gameplay to the primacy of the Crown Store.

This is a much better put version of my argument, thanks @code65536.

DanteYoda · August 2018

Seriously its either buy them for me or nothing.. I'd never run dungeons, way to hard, way to painful dealing with toxic community..

I feel the niche dungeon community brought this on themselves, treat people better be more patient and customers would have played the content, but no you had to make it septic..

Now we buy instead..