Another Patch of NB or go home, GG ZOS

rafaelcsmaia · August 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk

Im speechless, this is a solo parse, as much as you may say this player is very skilled, the dps gap between NB and ANY other class has reached ludicrous levels, not to mention their crazy sustain with what looks like blue food (lol), while most others struggle even with witchmother.

Props to the combat team, I barely see video parses from other classes anymore, since no one even bothers.

SilverWF · August 2018

My NB only got 30k

John_Falstaff · August 2018

Involved a bit of luck (100% of Impale and Assasin's Will are critical strikes, 5% above predicted on light attacks too) and probably not sustainable on a dummy with more health (regen 1251 versus drain 1645), but yes, with blue food it's quite impressive.

I also don't like the argument of "reward for difficulty". Leaving aside how difficult it is, the very fact of such discrepancy shouldn't exist in first place. One class has option of utilizing more complex technique for far better result (e.g. just scales better with player skill), while other classes are hard-capped by simply not having anything like that in their repertoire, so no amount of player skill can push it much higher. Maybe it's about time combat design team actually started to do that combat design thing with some more classes.

Sparr0w · August 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Involved a bit of luck (100% of Impale and Assasin's Will are critical strikes, 5% above predicted on light attacks too) and probably not sustainable on a dummy with more health (regen 1251 versus drain 1645), but yes, with blue food it's quite impressive.

I also don't like the argument of "reward for difficulty". Leaving aside how difficult it is, the very fact of such discrepancy shouldn't exist in first place. One class has option of utilizing more complex technique for far better result (e.g. just scales better with player skill), while other classes are hard-capped by simply not having anything like that in their repertoire, so no amount of player skill can push it much higher. Maybe it's about time combat design team actually started to do that combat design thing with some more classes.

A bit of luck

Three hardest hitting abilities criting 100% lol.

Apherius · August 2018

He end the fight with 45% of magicka lol, Add orbs to that and I wonder if they will ever HA.

John_Falstaff · August 2018

Oh yes, @Sparr0w is right, I forgot 100% on two Soul Harvest strikes. ^^ And @Apherius , in the long run, might still not be sustainable even with orbs (that's hemorraging your magicka at the rate of 400 a second - I never bothered to see how much orbs return, I think about an equivalent of 130-140 a second), but I suppose it doesn't change the big picture.

Sparr0w · August 2018

@Apherius I run the same setup, with an absorb magicka enchant and do still have to heavy attack, albeit not half as much as on my sorc.

rafaelcsmaia · August 2018

Crit luck is somewhat not so hard to expect when you have 80% spell crit, im pretty sure he consistently scores 55k+.

Also slap in witchmother and worm and this fella can sustain until the end of time.

With blue food on a magsorc, you'd run out of magicka before the half of a 3m dummy

del9 · August 2018

TFW pvp is more balanced than mostly-PVE game.

I’ll return to PVE once any other class is relevant for dps.

Lord_Eomer · August 2018

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk

Im speechless, this is a solo parse, as much as you may say this player is very skilled, the dps gap between NB and ANY other class has reached ludicrous levels, not to mention their crazy sustain with what looks like blue food (lol), while most others struggle even with witchmother.

Props to the combat team, I barely see video parses from other classes anymore, since no one even bothers.

Many will not agree with you but Yes NB are currently pulling higher numbers than any other.

NB are preferred for non Craglorn vet trials. ZOS fails every patch when it comes to class balance.

Templar and Warden DPS have died long ago and now just being a PVP class!

md3788 · August 2018

Interesting he's running infused on the big pieces. I thought MagNBs were mostly running all divines

KingJ · August 2018

Its a DPS parse on a dummy Nb should always have higher Dummy parses because they are the only class with access to minor berserk.

Your issues not with Nb its that @ZOS_Finn last couple of trials heavily discourag melee builds which removes 6/8 specs from being invited.Fix that and trials won't be 7-8 magblades.

Sparr0w · August 2018

md3788 wrote: »

Interesting he's running infused on the big pieces. I thought MagNBs were mostly running all divines

@md3788

Nah since the changes in summerset infused big pulls like 0.5% more dps than divines. Plus theres the added sustain & bigger shields.

Sparr0w · August 2018

KingJ wrote: »

Its a DPS parse on a dummy Nb should always have higher Dummy parses because they are the only class with access to minor berserk.

Your issues not with Nb its that @ZOS_Finn last couple of trials heavily discourag melee builds which removes 6/8 specs from being invited.Fix that and trials won't be 7-8 magblades.

Yep access to beserk & better sustain = more solo DPS. In trials other classes would see a much bigger DPS increase than a nightblade would.

LiquidPony · August 2018

It's a 3mil parse with Zaan and a single Channeled Acceleration cast, using a Shock glyph on the back-bar with 66% Minor Vulnerability uptime.

NBs are the strongest PvE class right now but the gap is a bit exaggerated.

I wonder what a magsorc would pull on a 3m dummy with a BSW/MS + Zaan, with a shock glyph backbar and Combat Prayer? I'm guessing it'd be 53k or 54k or so, maybe more.

Integral1900 · August 2018

Maybe one of the devs has a thing for nightblades

ruikkarikun · August 2018

What do you say, NB? Let's nerf sorc...

wozborne · August 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk

Im speechless, this is a solo parse, as much as you may say this player is very skilled, the dps gap between NB and ANY other class has reached ludicrous levels, not to mention their crazy sustain with what looks like blue food (lol), while most others struggle even with witchmother.

Props to the combat team, I barely see video parses from other classes anymore, since no one even bothers.

Templar and Warden DPS have died long ago and now just being a PVP class!

Nightblades are better than them at PvP too.

Tryxus · August 2018

I was so happy when I did my 1st ever DPS test on my MagDen a few weeks ago and got 35k. Then I see stuff like this and I'm like: "... WELP! Back to healing I guess!"

-grabs Master Resto Staff-

Onefrkncrzypope · August 2018

wozborne wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk

Im speechless, this is a solo parse, as much as you may say this player is very skilled, the dps gap between NB and ANY other class has reached ludicrous levels, not to mention their crazy sustain with what looks like blue food (lol), while most others struggle even with witchmother.

Props to the combat team, I barely see video parses from other classes anymore, since no one even bothers.

Templar and Warden DPS have died long ago and now just being a PVP class!

Nightblades are better than them at PvP too.

Stamblades. Magblades are usually just bomb blades

KingJ · August 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Its a DPS parse on a dummy Nb should always have higher Dummy parses because they are the only class with access to minor berserk.

Your issues not with Nb its that @ZOS_Finn last couple of trials heavily discourag melee builds which removes 6/8 specs from being invited.Fix that and trials won't be 7-8 magblades.

Yep access to beserk & better sustain = more solo DPS. In trials other classes would see a much bigger DPS increase than a nightblade would.

Yup don't know why people haven't realized this yet.Dummy parses mean nothing after you reach 30k solo.

LiquidPony · August 2018

Fear Turbo has been doing a series of DPS parses with some buffs to try to get some consistency across classes (orbs, Combat Prayer, Ele Drain, Minor Vulnerability provided).

The 6M skeleton parses are:

Magblade: 54,024
Magplar (ranged): 53,016
Magplar (melee): 52,510
MagDK (melee): 53,759
Magsorc: 50,792
Magwarden: 51,260

So we're looking at ~3.2k difference between the highest and lowest parse. Not sure they're all entirely optimized, though. For instance, the magsorc is Siroria + Mother's Sorrow + Zaan, and I wonder if Siroria + Willpower + Zaan + Perfected Asylum would be better?

BigBadVolk · August 2018

This^

TheUndeadAmulet · August 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Fear Turbo has been doing a series of DPS parses with some buffs to try to get some consistency across classes (orbs, Combat Prayer, Ele Drain, Minor Vulnerability provided).

The 6M skeleton parses are:

Magblade: 54,024
Magplar (ranged): 53,016
Magplar (melee): 52,510
MagDK (melee): 53,759
Magsorc: 50,792
Magwarden: 51,260

So we're looking at ~3.2k difference between the highest and lowest parse. Not sure they're all entirely optimized, though. For instance, the magsorc is Siroria + Mother's Sorrow + Zaan, and I wonder if Siroria + Willpower + Zaan + Perfected Asylum would be better?

Mfw a ranged magplar does more damage than a melee one:

Even magicka melee is worse than magicka ranged on the same class lmao.

Banana · August 2018

Wheres my class change ZOS

IZZEFlameLash · August 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

It's a 3mil parse with Zaan and a single Channeled Acceleration cast, using a Shock glyph on the back-bar with 66% Minor Vulnerability uptime.

NBs are the strongest PvE class right now but the gap is a bit exaggerated.

I wonder what a magsorc would pull on a 3m dummy with a BSW/MS + Zaan, with a shock glyph backbar and Combat Prayer? I'm guessing it'd be 53k or 54k or so, maybe more.

Why would a Sorc equip BSW with its low uptime for them? BSW on mDK is nice because the damage source the class has is all fire. But Sorc is all lightning with the exception of inferno staff'd Blockade and light attacks from said staff.

Sparr0w wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Its a DPS parse on a dummy Nb should always have higher Dummy parses because they are the only class with access to minor berserk.

Your issues not with Nb its that @ZOS_Finn last couple of trials heavily discourag melee builds which removes 6/8 specs from being invited.Fix that and trials won't be 7-8 magblades.

Yep access to beserk & better sustain = more solo DPS. In trials other classes would see a much bigger DPS increase than a nightblade would.

And yet, mNB will still come out on top and I believe with more gap if my memory serves me correctly.

rafaelcsmaia · August 2018

Btw this ain't supposed to be a nerf nbs post. NBs should be the baseline of how nicely a class can play out rn: good dps, nice sustain, nice self healing e buffs, ok group support.

If all other classes remain the same, nbs will still be preferred, same dps or not.

ZeroXFF · August 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Fear Turbo has been doing a series of DPS parses with some buffs to try to get some consistency across classes (orbs, Combat Prayer, Ele Drain, Minor Vulnerability provided).

The 6M skeleton parses are:

Magblade: 54,024
Magplar (ranged): 53,016
Magplar (melee): 52,510
MagDK (melee): 53,759
Magsorc: 50,792
Magwarden: 51,260

So we're looking at ~3.2k difference between the highest and lowest parse. Not sure they're all entirely optimized, though. For instance, the magsorc is Siroria + Mother's Sorrow + Zaan, and I wonder if Siroria + Willpower + Zaan + Perfected Asylum would be better?

That's less than 10% difference. I don't know what everybody is crying about. When I don't cheese it with Zaan and fall back on a heavy attack rotation to sustain better, the difference between my sorc and magblade is also 10%, so the scaling seems pretty linear with skill and gear too. People talk about how good blizzard is at balancing, but these numbers would be within blizzard's tolerances, so I think ZOS does a decent job in this regard.

I find it hard to believe though that magplar does more damage than magsorc, not to mention magwarden.

technohic · August 2018

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

wozborne wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=mINlPkajUkk

Im speechless, this is a solo parse, as much as you may say this player is very skilled, the dps gap between NB and ANY other class has reached ludicrous levels, not to mention their crazy sustain with what looks like blue food (lol), while most others struggle even with witchmother.

Props to the combat team, I barely see video parses from other classes anymore, since no one even bothers.

Templar and Warden DPS have died long ago and now just being a PVP class!

Nightblades are better than them at PvP too.

Stamblades. Magblades are usually just bomb blades

Someone could debate whether stamblade are better than magblades at PVP but if magblade is not top, it’s a close second. There’s some good ones that practically spam cloak in between attacks.

daemonor · August 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Fear Turbo has been doing a series of DPS parses with some buffs to try to get some consistency across classes (orbs, Combat Prayer, Ele Drain, Minor Vulnerability provided).

The 6M skeleton parses are:

Magblade: 54,024
Magplar (ranged): 53,016
Magplar (melee): 52,510
MagDK (melee): 53,759
Magsorc: 50,792
Magwarden: 51,260

So we're looking at ~3.2k difference between the highest and lowest parse. Not sure they're all entirely optimized, though. For instance, the magsorc is Siroria + Mother's Sorrow + Zaan, and I wonder if Siroria + Willpower + Zaan + Perfected Asylum would be better?

That's less than 10% difference. I don't know what everybody is crying about. When I don't cheese it with Zaan and fall back on a heavy attack rotation to sustain better, the difference between my sorc and magblade is also 10%, so the scaling seems pretty linear with skill and gear too. People talk about how good blizzard is at balancing, but these numbers would be within blizzard's tolerances, so I think ZOS does a decent job in this regard.

I find it hard to believe though that magplar does more damage than magsorc, not to mention magwarden.

I'd argue about blizzard being the benchmark of balance. Legion felt like the xpac in which the biggest amount of dps spec were viable, but that being said there were still some specs who were inferior and required more effort for less results + insane dependancy of RNG legendaries which you may spend half a year grinding for.

Plus blizzard has been running WoW for like what 12 years? Compared to ESO's 4 aaaaaaaand some classess literally had 3 button rotations with infinite resources and auto attacks comparing that to ESO's la weaving/swapping ult/sustain management.

Izaki · August 2018

It always makes me laugh when someone posts a video of a solo parse on a dummy and calls the class OP. Especially when its a nightblade.

Why?
- Because nightblades have access to Minor Berserk in solo applications, unlike the other classes, which automatically means that they will be doing more DPS solo. All the other classes get that buff in raids through Combat Prayer, but not solo. So other classes are buffed more in raids and that gap is evened out.
- Because solo parses are absolutely meaningless, especially if they are done on a 3mil target dummy, since they don't represent actual boss fights with mechanics.
- Because in order to really judge whether a class is OP, you need to base it on a video of a boss fight and then compare it to a video of that same boss fight but on a different class.

Yes, nightblades are OP right now. But this video is bringing up all the wrong things to be worried about. Its fine if nightblades pull a 3 million HP burst in 50 seconds solo. What is not fine, is the fact that in raids, no other class can compete with nightblades.

And also, the damage in general is way too high this patch. ZOS just have to do something to drastically reduce it. Because 3rd platform vMoL HM nukes are just silly.