Why is it that some people can't be killed in the below 50 PVP
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Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Because they're still scaled to CP160 regardless.
The only thing level really affects is the number of skills you have unlocked.
No not at all. Below 50 chars have a so much better scaling. My below 50 StamSorc got 4k WD, 2k Stam regen, 33k Stam and is insanely fast on top of that. If you have gear for NonVet your chars are insanely strong.PC/EU, StamSorc Main1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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No..
No one should take so little damage and also have the ablility to kill someone in two swipes of a two hander.
How can you take a bunch of time to make such a build and learn when you level out of the under 50 so quick? Unless you make the same type of character and delete it over and over so it is worth making equipment to re-enter the lower level PVP zone it's not worth it? Plus you would have to have a bank full of the stuff since you level out of it so fast. Some of these people just solo so there are very few groups now to join for the new players.
Sorry but unless it is leveled out so that no build is over powered of another the people playing the under 50 are all going to be people that should be in the over 50.
I level my characters through there but am not a PVPer and will probably never go into the over 50. It was more fun that it is now because of the imbalances in the game. All of my characters are different so I have to learn how to play them there so they are weak at least at first. If you heal in there you level out even faster because of the way the experience work.
I know I am not good at PVP but I am learning. I never would have ever entered the zone if there wasn't things I needed that required it. I know a lot of people just go there to get a skill or skyshards. If you want them to stay and play something needs to be done.
People have to feel they have a chance but lately I enter and get in a group and the people leave the group and zone because they get discouraged. Hardly no groups and if you find one it is small and weak. That makes it easy for the overpowered builds to run over you.
Well
If your argument is Allowing Experienced players to face noobs; that has Nothing to do with armor, abilities, etc and the differences they make in the game. You may never be on the same skill level as these players, and to say it should be even against them is game ruining. You should advocate not allowing them to enter, even if it's "impossible" but to say you should be able to be equal with mismatched, uneducated #$&+ to a pro is upsetting to hear
If you're in a PvP zone, you should be experienced in PvP or accept the fact a better player will hand you and your inexperienced buddies their lunch
Personally, no, I don't think you automatically get to feel like you have a chance, because that implies lack of farming, experience, and dedication deserves a chance; it most assuredly does not4 -
Fiveboro✭✭
No..
No one should take so little damage and also have the ablility to kill someone in two swipes of a two hander.
How can you take a bunch of time to make such a build and learn when you level out of the under 50 so quick? Unless you make the same type of character and delete it over and over so it is worth making equipment to re-enter the lower level PVP zone it's not worth it? Plus you would have to have a bank full of the stuff since you level out of it so fast. Some of these people just solo so there are very few groups now to join for the new players.
Sorry but unless it is leveled out so that no build is over powered of another the people playing the under 50 are all going to be people that should be in the over 50.
I level my characters through there but am not a PVPer and will probably never go into the over 50. It was more fun that it is now because of the imbalances in the game. All of my characters are different so I have to learn how to play them there so they are weak at least at first. If you heal in there you level out even faster because of the way the experience work.
I know I am not good at PVP but I am learning. I never would have ever entered the zone if there wasn't things I needed that required it. I know a lot of people just go there to get a skill or skyshards. If you want them to stay and play something needs to be done.
People have to feel they have a chance but lately I enter and get in a group and the people leave the group and zone because they get discouraged. Hardly no groups and if you find one it is small and weak. That makes it easy for the overpowered builds to run over you.
OP, this whole chain sounds like complaining about players being good at PVP and running non-cp campaigns? Not sure what to say about that...don't pvp?
All your points about facing an 'impossible' build are well...impossible. If someone really is taking absolutely 0 damage in non-cp then that person is probably built to be a tank and the first rule you should learn of PVP is some people are a waste of time to attack. Leave that person alone, if they're in a group target the DPS not the tank this is 101. Your claims about an invincible build two shotting you I'd have to see a video because I don't believe it. It seems to me like you're just bad which is fine. And the only way to improve that is by continuing to lose over and over again until you're finally competitive.4 -
TheMystid✭✭✭On a side note for the OP:
New and unexperienced players should use this forum for learning and improving, and not accusing those who might help them of cheating.PC EU
Nostalgic StamDk3 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Weaklings attacking a beast. L2gearup
The weaklings are the bads hiding in under lvl 50 PvP with their gold gear fighting new players and those in training gear...4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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The weaklings are the bads hiding in under lvl 50 PvP with their gold gear fighting new players and those in training gear...
Why... Would you PvP in training... You only get xp buffs for killing mobs...
Literally any other traits would make sense
PvP: is definitely not a place to learn the game. It even says, when you first enter Cyrodiil "Veterans of the alliance war FAR OUT POWER ANY OPPONENT YOU HAVE FACED BEFORE"Edited by Waffennacht on August 27, 2018 10:11PM3 -
Kartalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do lowbie BGs in training gear to take advantage of the bonus experience for finishing first or second when doing random queue. The goal is to have fun there but also not take forever to level.- PC/NA
- Karllotta, AD Magplar, AR 50
- Hatched-In-Glacier, DC Magden, AR 44
- Miraliys, EP Warden, AR 37
- Lyranais, EP Magsorc, AR 37
- Milthalas, EP Magblade, AR 36
- Kartalin, AD Stamblade, AR 35
- Miralys, AD Magsorc, AR 35
- Kallenna, EP Magcro, AR 34
- Lemon Party - Meanest Girls - Tertiary Meat - @ Kartalin - Youtube
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Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
Why... Would you PvP in training... You only get xp buffs for killing mobs...
Literally any other traits would make sense.
Because the only gear most people bother with for under 50 is training gear, unless you are the sort of bad that your aim is to play smurfs in under 50, then really there is no point making more under 50 gear just for PvP that takes up more storage with gear you barely use.Waffennacht wrote: »PvP: is definitely not a place to learn the game.
One of the many reasons PvP has died a death in this game (and most MMORPGs)
Edited by Sylosi on August 27, 2018 10:24PM3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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Because the only gear most people bother with for under 50 is training gear, unless you are the sort of bad that your aim is to play smurfs in under 50, then really there is no point making more under 50 gear just for PvP that takes up more storage with gear you barely use.
One of the many reasons PvP has died a death in this game (and most MMORPGs)
First part is... If you're seeking out armor in traits, then logically you'd go the extra step to complete sets, which is also indicative of you knowing how to properly gear... Which makes why you're going into pvp with purposely farmed training gear very confusing
Second part is; PvP is far from dead. I see tons of players in BGs0 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
First part is... If you're seeking out armor in traits, then logically you'd go the extra step to complete sets, which is also indicative of you knowing how to properly gear... Which makes why you're going into pvp with purposely farmed training gear very confusing
What are you on about? Do you actually read what you reply to? People only bother to go with training gear for under 50 because most people only play a handful of hours under 50 in PvP before the character is levelled, most of their time under 50 is spent in PvE, so it is not worth making PvP gear for under 50 unless that is where you plan to do a lot of PvP (i.e you are trash hiding in under 50 who continually rerolls characters so you can fight largely new players or those in sub-optimal gear).Waffennacht wrote: »Second part is; PvP is far from dead. I see tons of players in BGs
Thanks for the laugh.
Edited by Sylosi on August 27, 2018 11:25PM2 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some people have been playing PVP for ages and enjoy below level 50 because they take great pleasure in killing inexperienced players. Some of them refuse to 'graduate' to above level 50 where they might actually die; they just delete characters and create new ones when they reach level 50.
I'm certain there are a lot of players with sets of golded out gear between level 10 and 50, purely so they have 'the edge' over their opponents, knowing they will be reusing it when they roll there next toon. Some of them would also insist in having gear within a couple of levels of their toon.
If I'm in there, I only replace my gear every 10 -12 levels, only upgrade to blue or maybe purple and get rid of it when I'm finished with it. I know of some people that wear the same set from the moment they start playing until they reach level 50.
I wear training gear in Kyne because I am only there to level up, get my Alliance ranks leveled and get AP. My 14th toon is level 25 and once he hits 50 you won't see me in Kyne until I decide to roll a 15th toon.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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What are you on about? Do you actually read what you reply to? People only bother to go with training gear for under 50 because most people only play a handful of hours under 50 in PvP before the character is levelled, most of their time under 50 is spent in PvE, so it is not worth making PvP gear for under 50 unless that is where you plan to do a lot of PvP (i.e you are trash hiding in under 50 who continually rerolls characters so you can fight largely new players or those in sub-optimal gear).
Thanks for the laugh.
If it's mis-mash armor set - then training is unlikely to be the majority trait
If you have a complete set of armor - even training trait will not hamper you in any significant kind of way (i.e. only losing 100 Regen or dmg)
If you have the time and resources to have a complete set with training traits - you have the time and resources to have non-trainig trait sets
I think you create a hypothetical situation that is unlikely to exist and use this as an argument for why players are just bad.
I.e.. An inexperienced player having mis-matched sets; full training traits, entering PvP, unknowledgeable about game; is unlikely to exist and even if does, should not be catered to in anyway.
I kinda just skim what you say at this point honestly, it's just a formality at this point, because your only point is that you want a level playing field in which one does not - nor will ever exist.
There is no buff that can be provided to a lesser skilled player that a higher skilled player cannot take better advantage of - period. What you have to actually say any further than that is pretty mootEdited by Waffennacht on August 27, 2018 11:42PM2 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
If it's mis-mash armor set - then training is unlikely to be the majority trait
Newer players go into PvP with all sorts of gear...Waffennacht wrote: »If you have a complete set of armor - even training trait will not hamper you in any significant kind of way (i.e. only losing 100 Regen or dmg)
People typically only make levelling gear every 10 levels or so, generally pick sets for PvE not PvP as that is what most spend most of their time doing when levelling, commonly only go purple, often have a mish mash of jewellry, don't have top tier glyphs on their gear, etc, because shock, horror it is levelling gear that you barely use. And that is a long way from some guy who has maxed out gold gear every 3 levels or so and geared specifically for PvP.Waffennacht wrote: »If you have the time and resources to have a complete set with training traits - you have the time and resources to have non-trainig trait sets
There is a lack of motivation to for most players, because most players that even go in PvP whilst levelling only spend a minority of their time there, in a game that is tight on storage space wasting a 100+ slots on sets of low level PvP gear that will barely get used is not going to happen for most players.Waffennacht wrote: »I think you create a hypothetical situation that is unlikely to exist and use this as an argument for why players are just bad.
I think you are projecting.Waffennacht wrote: »I kinda just skim what you say at this point honestly, it's just a formality at this point, because your only point is that you want a level playing field in which one does not - nor will ever exist.
I realise reading comprehension is not your strength, I couldn't care less about a level playing field in under 50 PvP, all I said was this:
"The weaklings are the bads hiding in under lvl 50 PvP with their gold gear fighting new players and those in training gear..."
Apparently that triggered you, maybe that is you and the truth hurts.Waffennacht wrote: »There is no buff that can be provided to a lesser skilled player that a higher skilled player cannot take better advantage of - period
Again, completely irrelevant to what I wrote.Waffennacht wrote: »What you have to actually say any further than that is pretty moot
Irony.
Edited by Sylosi on August 28, 2018 1:06AM4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh #$&-
You're right
@Sylosi , I get all 5 star and under (without Avatars) forum members confused
You jumped right into my conversation with @Lirkin and didn't notice you weren't him.
Edit: now I do feel kinda bad... Seriously thought you were him.... Well...
What I said about armor traits is true... But what I said about the playing field obviously has nothing to do with youEdited by Waffennacht on August 28, 2018 1:27AM0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The easy solution is to adjust the curve on battle leveling, the current top possible should be lowered to be more in line(but just a bit below) with CP capped players. Then you adjust the minimum to about 70% of that, which is enough to do all non-vet content.
This way someone in half decent gear is no more than 20% less effective than top tier gear and 1vX would actually require a lot more skill. This would reduce the disparity we see now where a smart, well geared, player can quite literally be unkillable against 6+ improperly geared/less skilled players.
You still have incentive to gear up characters because the advantage is significant, but you’re not some walking god.
I think a lot of people don’t know he strength of something like
5 alchemist- 3 Body+back bar
5 Julianos - 3 Body+back bar
3 Willpower/4Seducer
With purple gear and gold weapons you’ll 1 bang 90% of players with a burst combo and have limitless sustain.Edited by Lexxypwns on August 28, 2018 2:03AM3 -
Lirkin✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
Well
If your argument is Allowing Experienced players to face noobs; that has Nothing to do with armor, abilities, etc and the differences they make in the game. You may never be on the same skill level as these players, and to say it should be even against them is game ruining. You should advocate not allowing them to enter, even if it's "impossible" but to say you should be able to be equal with mismatched, uneducated #$&+ to a pro is upsetting to hear
If you're in a PvP zone, you should be experienced in PvP or accept the fact a better player will hand you and your inexperienced buddies their lunch
Personally, no, I don't think you automatically get to feel like you have a chance, because that implies lack of farming, experience, and dedication deserves a chance; it most assuredly does not
You completely misread my intent in my post. Please read what I said again but I will try a clarify.
In any of the PVP areas but especially in the under 50 there should not be the possibility of putting together gear that will make it super hard to kill you. Skill should be the deciding factor in the battles. I am not saying that all gear should work as well but right now it is way out of wack and getting worse. It got worse after the latest DLC and that makes me think that the changes introduced are part of the problem. There were already some people that a whole group had a really tough time taking down (actually they could not take down two or three of them together) (Four of us fought for a long time with this one player and had him down to about 25 % and he just ran and his health went up like someone was healing him.) but now there are small groups of players that are almost impassible to kill by groups I have been in.
I don't mind dying but I need a chance to make me want to play in PVP. The last time I was in the zone I had battles that I and my group were just over run with not a chance. At the same time I was able to kill one of two players and might have gotten the second if some else came in and killed me just as I had the second person very low on health. This in not bragging because I could have fought better. I am not great but I and groups I am in should be able to at least see more of decrease in the others health that we are seeing. I use sets in my PVPing but nothing that different than I PVE in.
I am not expecting to always be the winner or even the majority of the time but right now it's getting almost impossible to win.
Edited by Lirkin on August 28, 2018 4:20AM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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You completely misread my intent in my post. Please read what I said again but I will try a clarify.
In any of the PVP areas but especially in the under 50 there should not be the possibility of putting together gear that will make it super hard to kill you. Skill should be the deciding factor in the battles. I am not saying that all gear should work as well but right now it is way out of wack and getting worse. It got worse after the latest DLC and that makes me think that the changes introduced are part of the problem. There were already some people that a whole group had a really tough time taking down but now there are small groups of players that are almost impassible to kill by groups I have been in.
I don't mind dying but I need a chance to make me want to play in PVP. The last time I was in the zone I had battles that I and my group were just over run with not a chance. At the same time I was able to kill one of two players and might have gotten the second if some else came in and killed me just as I had the second person very low on health. This in not bragging because I could have fought better. I am not great but I and groups I am in should be able to at least see more of decrease in the others health that we are seeing. I use sets in my PVPing but nothing that different than I PVE in.
I am not expecting to always be the winner or even the majority of the time but right now it's getting almost impossible to win.
I've already stuck my foot in my mouth enough times in this thread. I'm just gonna leave what I've already said and be done with it Lmfao0 -
Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem is some experienced long-time players recall their Blackwater (old Kyne name) days so fondly they keep rerolling toons there and have come to see killing others there as "farming" as if other players are mobs. It's a carebear mindset of grinding away which is ironic because many of them brag about it or act as if it's something to be proud of in PvP. They should go play Farmville.
They are just robbing new players of the newbie PvP experience many readily recount as the good old days (for them).
As far as the super-tanky people u can't make a dent in, esp those that use meditate, they are just trying to distract u and throw u off whatever you should be doing or bait you to counter siege area. Most of them cannot kill anyone decently geared cause they built toon mainly to be an annoying distraction. Don't take the bait, move on and focus on what you need to do.
What server/platform are u on @Lirkin ? I play NA PC Kyne EP and can make u some better gear if u need it.
Edited by Enkil on August 28, 2018 8:40AM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I know it's not extremly constructive but this is completly learn to play issue from people that are getting killed. What Yoiu expected from PvP that You'll run with you zerg spam brainlesly 1 button and kill evenryone ? Get gear get skills and come back into fight or accept defeat coming from not beeing prepared to fight.Edited by Juhasow on August 28, 2018 5:04AM3 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It is not a l2p issue. It’s a simple matter of you shouldn’t be able to get overly inflated stats that are hugely different from the stats average equipment gives.
I shouldn’t be able to have 30k Health 40k Max Mag 19k Stam and 4K Spell damage on a Mageblade in an environment where the average player is at 32k mag 2500 spell damage and 25k healthEdited by Lexxypwns on August 28, 2018 5:22AM7 -
RexyCat✭✭✭✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Because they're still scaled to CP160 regardless.
The only thing level really affects is the number of skills you have unlocked.
Don't forget those passives that also need to be unlocked for new players....most new players unlock skills, but forget that they also need to use passives to get the most out of each abilities and that without CP.
I have noticed that my baby NB already make use of CP even when it is only level 35 in PvE zones, is that supposed to happen?0 -
RexyCat✭✭✭✭DemonDruaga wrote: »They should introduce a pvp set(or 2 to use up the gear slots) that gives balanced out stats, that scales with the lvls 10-50 and can(and must be) only used in the low campaign.
Over geared vets are killing the fun for the real newbies, creating an unhealthy enviroment for people that would like to start pvp.
I mean vets already have the experience to take out several newbies in the same gear at once, so why let them create god mode alts to mess up players that only have acces to like a 3 piece seducer + overland drops setup.
I agree with you to some degree, but then we have people like me that have been playing for a long time and have levelled up crafter to be able to make gear for our low level toons. It would backfire for us as we would not have any use of our crafter on low level toons. You have two type of "new player" 1) those completely new to PvP and 2) those have been playing (either only PvE or both gaming modes) for a long time and creating a new PvP character which they also need to learn how to play/gear up.
Group (1) will have large amount of catching up to do which group (2) don't need to do which make your suggestion on gear not take away the gap that is between first time player in PvP (ESO) and those that have been in this game for a long time (vets?). The original design of this game where that players should start in PvE to get the basic gear, skills and gear to start out in dungeons or in PvP at a later stage. This have been changed so you now can go earlier into "end game" content which again creates problem like this. A fully levelled CP 160 (which where supposed to take some time - not power level where you only repeat to kill the same mobs over and over to get your XP) will have more options to what gear to equip and probably also have some more skillpoints to get the basic skills to work with all passives.
For my own part I prefer to go to campaign with CP even on my fresh baked PvP toon as A) you need to learn how to deal with that environment and adjust your build and what skills you need to be able to survive and still kill things
you will know who is playing and what builds are being used in those campaigns which also have an impact on how to counter those players C) you can make use of siege weapons and other means even as a low level build, so you actually learning how things work for that campaign, so it isn't useless to go to no-CP or CP campaign even if you will get killed plenty of times until your learn how to manage your fights.
PS: How do one avoid to get smileys when one type B ) in posts? I don't want to put on sunglasses each time I make a bullet point list.... DSEdited by RexyCat on August 28, 2018 12:39PM0 -
Lirkin✭✭✭✭Anyone else think that the changes to the sieges is messed up as well?
The meat bag makes it almost impossible to counter siege because they kill you to fast and easy and they can reach on top of the higher levels of forts like nik and sej. The old fire ballistas are almost worthless now since they do such low damage compared to them even if you hit a target directly.
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Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭Idk. I feel the op. One night I ended up going like 99K/5D/100+A on a magdk (averaging 700k damage/Rd) wearing blessed meridia and sloads. Kinda cheesy tbh. And it's easy for a vet pvper to get this gear. Not skill based, just oh I have enough AP/gold bc I played for three years. there is also the support blade I created that didn't die for 4 rounds of BGs wearing darkstride and vampire cloak. That's not the caliber of player I am, especially on the dk.Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
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Because the only gear most people bother with for under 50 is training gear, unless you are the sort of bad that your aim is to play smurfs in under 50, then really there is no point making more under 50 gear just for PvP that takes up more storage with gear you barely use.
One of the many reasons PvP has died a death in this game (and most MMORPGs)
Experienced players are going to beat you in any gear you or they are wearing. I was leveling a new Werewolf in preparation for the DLC release today and took him into BGs over the weekend. Wearing all training gear, no enchants on my weapons. I was still able to go 24-3 in a deathmatch. 20 of those kills were without dying in werewolf form (pre-DLC werewolf). Why? Because I was better than the players I was facing. And my training gear was around 10 levels below my current level.1 -
Valabrog✭✭✭They can take spell after spell and four people attacking them and they lose health very slowly.
Something is broken in there! I think there must be an exploit they are using
Also two hand is very powerful.
Skills like DK reflect or Warden absorb helps with defense against magica casters. So if you spam crystal shards and Im on my warden, I can tank you all day long (with decent gear/set).
Bleed builds with dual wield and aoe execute (tornado) are way more deadly in the hands of experienced player (who simply rolled a new alt and leveling in bgs).Edited by Valabrog on August 29, 2018 6:28AM0 -
Valabrog✭✭✭
The weaklings are the bads hiding in under lvl 50 PvP with their gold gear fighting new players and those in training gear...
People do what game allows them to do - if the devs make all gear equal stats in below 50 bgs, than gear wount matter. And still the newbs will die, maybe not so quickly, of course. But while different gear is meaningful, you cant actually think that any sane person will go with green gear if they have ability to join with purple.0 -
Caleb_Kadesh✭✭✭I remember when I first stepped into PvP I was slaughtered in two swings. Then the guy that killed me whispered and asked if I needed help with my build because I died too quickly. I learned from that gentleman that my gear was atrocious for PvP, that traits are very important, and that PvP is about more than light attacks.
From that point on I determined to learn something from every death.
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Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Its because some ppl are old PvPers on new charsEdited by Enslaved on August 29, 2018 4:20PM2 -
RighteousBacon✭✭✭✭Why are they in the learning area then. They are discouraging other players before they even get to 50
Because people who have been playing the game for a while, including myself, find it pretty freaking fun to rule over the new little players who don’t understand how to counter stuff.
It’s a little toxic yes, but the game is so full of op counters that help groups that jumping into below 50 and wrecking noobs makes it seem almost even2