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Should normal dungeons drop blue monster helms?
Guppet
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There are constant posts moaning about players not being good enough for vet content. Fake or poor DPS, fake tanks and healers. Content taking too long.
One thing is at the root of all this. Monster helms. The only way to get them is in vet and since the best set ups are now 5-5-2, it’s what everybody should be aiming for.
The best way to improve the average quality of players in vet content, is to make so those that queue for it are there for the actual content.
If normals dropped monster helms in blue, then a significant number of players would not step into vet dungeons, they would then not go in with no clue what they are doing and would not need carrying.
The current “vet is the only place to get critical gear” is hurting the quality of groups that go into vet dungeons and seriously ramping up toxicity.
So should normals drop blue monster helms, in the hopes of significantly improving the quality players that actually run vet content?
Edited by Guppet on August 26, 2018 9:12PM One thing is at the root of all this. Monster helms. The only way to get them is in vet and since the best set ups are now 5-5-2, it’s what everybody should be aiming for.
The best way to improve the average quality of players in vet content, is to make so those that queue for it are there for the actual content.
If normals dropped monster helms in blue, then a significant number of players would not step into vet dungeons, they would then not go in with no clue what they are doing and would not need carrying.
The current “vet is the only place to get critical gear” is hurting the quality of groups that go into vet dungeons and seriously ramping up toxicity.
So should normals drop blue monster helms, in the hopes of significantly improving the quality players that actually run vet content?
Should normal dungeons drop blue monster helms? 475 votes
Yes drop blue monster helms in normal
23%
113 votes
No don’t drop monster helms in normal
69%
330 votes
Other
6%
33 votes
2
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Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes drop blue monster helms in normalIm not for this unless some imperfect version
What do you mean nope feat version? With transmuting any trait can be changed and since you dan upgrade any blue to purple, then you can’t really change that?
Also explain why it should be imperfect when simply lower quality is fine for all other equipment.
You do realise that he current situation is why there is so much toxicity. Is not getting unique rewards worth removing some of that toxicity? Remember if it’s signifucsntly weaker, they will still run vet and it doesnt improve.6 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalConsdering that all non DLC vet dungeons are basically range from a small speed-bump to a literal cakewalk depending on team comp...I don't really see the need for this.
DLC vet dungeons on the other hand have a CP300 requirement for a reason...
Plus, while having a monster set is meta as ***..outside of trials...you don't really NEED them....and if you're doing trails then a vet dung is a walk in the park10 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes drop blue monster helms in normalTaleof2Cities wrote: »
The enjoyment of doing difficult content is supposed to be the incentive. If it’s not, then it’s because it’s not enjoyable, which is a whole other issue.8 -
Olen_Mikko✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the stats would be like 50% less effective without a change to upgrade them, sure.NB enthusiastic:- Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
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Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherBefore transmutation this would be a great idea for normals to drop greens not blues. Now with transmutation you only have to get the right armor weight (light medium heavy). One run with 4 people at cp160 will get you at least 2 different weights if not all three to trade amongst ourselves.
If you put monster helms in normal what you’ll get is even more “go go go” try hards ruining the experience for new players and story players. At least the those try hards are only going for the monster helms in vet.
Sorry, good idea but not in practice.Edited by max_only on August 26, 2018 9:26PM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
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Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalImperfect helmets will not work without imperfect shoulders.
Since both types of shoulders would be random chest drops, this is a bad idea.8 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalThey are pretty easy and Zos has moved to have some gear behind more challenging levels of content.
In fact it was a conscious choice for Zos to not have monster helms drop from normal dungeons as it used to be a rare drop in normal. They removed them probably more than a year ago.
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Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes drop blue monster helms in normalConsdering that all non DLC vet dungeons are basically range from a small speed-bump to a literal cakewalk depending on team comp...I don't really see the need for this.
DLC vet dungeons on the other hand have a CP300 requirement for a reason...
Plus, while having a monster set is meta as ***..outside of trials...you don't really NEED them....and if you're doing trails then a vet dung is a walk in the park
You do know that pvp exists right? One team
Has monster sets and the other doesn’t, assuming equal skill who wins?
So no it’s not optional. Players that don’t want to do vet content are currently forced into to it to be on a even playing field and when they do it, they are woefully inept at it.Edited by Guppet on August 26, 2018 9:27PM6 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalConsdering that all non DLC vet dungeons are basically range from a small speed-bump to a literal cakewalk depending on team comp...I don't really see the need for this.
DLC vet dungeons on the other hand have a CP300 requirement for a reason...
Plus, while having a monster set is meta as ***..outside of trials...you don't really NEED them....and if you're doing trails then a vet dung is a walk in the park
You do know that pvp exists right? One team
Has monster sets and the other doesn’t, assuming equal skill who wins?
So no it’s not optional. Players that don’t want to do vet content are currently forced into to it to be on a even playing field and when they do it, they are woefully inept at it.
You do know Zos has made conscious choices to strongly encourage player solely interested in PvE to do some PvP and to get PvP players to do some PvE so this argument is not very strong with the force.
Vigor, WH, caltrops and purge are skills locked behind PvP that are very beneficial in PvE and required for some roles if a player wants to be competitive in PvE.
Same with Undaunted passives for max stats which pretty much requires doing some PvE dugeons or one is less competitive in PvP. This does not require doing vet content, but can be done in a day or weekend on vet with a decently skilled group vs a pretty long time relying on pledges.
Edit: so the group with the monster helms would probably win. Not because they are evenly skilled but because they are more skilled which is why it was not that big of a deal for them to get the monster helms.Edited by idk on August 26, 2018 9:34PM2 -
Kanar✭✭✭✭✭
✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalI would prefer if monster helms only dropped from vet HM.6 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherTaleof2Cities wrote: »
The enjoyment of doing difficult content is supposed to be the incentive. If it’s not, then it’s because it’s not enjoyable, which is a whole other issue.
Your smoke and mirrors skills are commendable.
A challenge is nice, but rewards do incentivize the other 90% of the playerbase that run vet dungeons.
Vet dungeons aren’t hard. There are vids of players doing them solo.
Edited by Taleof2Cities on August 26, 2018 9:35PM5 -
swippy✭✭✭✭✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalIm not for this unless some imperfect version
What do you mean nope feat version? With transmuting any trait can be changed and since you dan upgrade any blue to purple, then you can’t really change that?
Also explain why it should be imperfect when simply lower quality is fine for all other equipment.
You do realise that he current situation is why there is so much toxicity. Is not getting unique rewards worth removing some of that toxicity? Remember if it’s signifucsntly weaker, they will still run vet and it doesnt improve.
there seems to be a typo in an important word in this sentence, which otherwise describes the crux of my problem with the proposal. i don't know what's meant by "dan". not sure if it's "can" or "don't" or something else.
in 30 minutes you can run a Normal and upgrade your new gear to purple or even gold. then the benefit of conquering vet is relegated to just some Achievement Points, which are a lot less valuable than useful gear to a lot of players.
i'm not good at dungeons so this would benefit me, but i still don't think it's a good idea for the game. it feels like it would flatten it all out and i can have whatever i want without having to try harder and improve my skills.3 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Yes drop blue monster helms in normalConsdering that all non DLC vet dungeons are basically range from a small speed-bump to a literal cakewalk depending on team comp...I don't really see the need for this.
DLC vet dungeons on the other hand have a CP300 requirement for a reason...
Plus, while having a monster set is meta as ***..outside of trials...you don't really NEED them....and if you're doing trails then a vet dung is a walk in the park
You do know that pvp exists right? One team
Has monster sets and the other doesn’t, assuming equal skill who wins?
So no it’s not optional. Players that don’t want to do vet content are currently forced into to it to be on a even playing field and when they do it, they are woefully inept at it.
Exactly. It was painful trying to get my bloodspawn helmet. Lucky I was put into pug group with a vet that was helping his friend. He rez'd me so many times.
Im not switching my CP and pvp gear. I just switch my skills to pve when I have to.
And theres no way in hell im dropping vigor, I dont trust healers.1 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalESO has a built-in gear progression that scales with the type of content. (Junk gear -> overland/crafted sets -> dungeon sets -> Monster helms -> trial sets -> ability-altering weapons.) Monster helms are the main incentive to progress from normal to veteran content. It's the way character progression is designed to work. Either put in the work and get up to speed for vet content, or stick with normal and wear the gear appropriate for your chosen playstyle.5 -
Runs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They could bring back a low drop rate on them in normal. When Shadows of the Hist came out there was such a thing. I wish I kept my level 10 monster helm as proof as it seems the only people who believe it are the people who received one. I think it was just those two dungeons though.
Considering you can buy them when they hit the golden vendor in the weight, and transmute to the trait, you want I don't see why this would be a big issue. At least not if it's only a rare drop.Runs| Orc Nightblade • Chim-el Adabal| Dunmer Templar • M'air the Honest| Khajiit Templar
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes drop blue monster helms in normalI was prepared to just outright say no, but the idea that some players that are completely unprepared jump into vet mostly for the helm drop is interesting. If it keeps people that aren't ready for vet out of vet, then I say go for it. There was a small window of time when this was actually the case. I remember farming normal Cradle of Shadows for Velidreth when it first came out. The drop rate was horrible, but there was still a chance. Maybe they were on to something with that.
If it still feels too easy to get the helm this way, then perhaps have it only drop in training trait. You'll never get best in slot without transmuting it. The fact that it's in blue means pretty much nothing as the upgrade cost to purple is essentially nothing.Edited by redspecter23 on August 26, 2018 9:49PM6 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes drop blue monster helms in normalIm not for this unless some imperfect version
What do you mean nope feat version? With transmuting any trait can be changed and since you dan upgrade any blue to purple, then you can’t really change that?
Also explain why it should be imperfect when simply lower quality is fine for all other equipment.
You do realise that he current situation is why there is so much toxicity. Is not getting unique rewards worth removing some of that toxicity? Remember if it’s signifucsntly weaker, they will still run vet and it doesnt improve.
there seems to be a typo in an important word in this sentence, which otherwise describes the crux of my problem with the proposal. i don't know what's meant by "dan". not sure if it's "can" or "don't" or something else.
in 30 minutes you can run a Normal and upgrade your new gear to purple or even gold. then the benefit of conquering vet is relegated to just some Achievement Points, which are a lot less valuable than useful gear to a lot of players.
i'm not good at dungeons so this would benefit me, but i still don't think it's a good idea for the game. it feels like it would flatten it all out and i can have whatever i want without having to try harder and improve my skills.
Yep it was a typo. My phone hates me and I’ve drsnk too much to edit.
I realise what I’m about to say actually proves sone people right and goes against my point but here goes anyway.
I too was like you, thought I’m not good enough to do vet content. But I decided that what they heck I really wanted monster sets, to see just how good they are. Spoiler alert it’s very, like night and day.
So I buckled up, read some guides and even started spreadsheeting things myself ( just because I did that, doesn’t mean it should be expected, I’m deeply geeky and spreadsheet and analyse for work).
Took a while but once the conscious decision was made to get gud, ergh I hate that phrase, then I started dropping helms left right and Center, did the vast majority of hard modes too. It’s a case of understanding mechanics, when they click, it’s just easy.
I now have all the sets I want. Even have chests in my house just to store all the junk ones.
So while the current vet only helms got me to do the vet content, I now don’t touch vet. No need for me. Of course for me it was a hell of a lot easier than most as I tanked them all and thankfully that kept them interesting, but there were often incredibly painful runs, where it was apparent that other people were also just there for helms.
Get a couple of people in your group that just want the helms and it’s a recipe for badness. I can only imagine what that’s like if you also have to contend with fake tanks.
But I guess I have a bit more empathy than most here, I don’t see what I went through as having to be required to get what I got. I don’t believe in forcing people to run content they struggle with just so other people can feel thier efforts are not devalued.
I'd not be offended if other people got them easier. That said, if you want them, then go for them. It’s not changing any time soon and the golden is an utter git.Edited by Guppet on August 26, 2018 9:57PM3 -
iiYuki✭✭✭✭✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalWouldn't that defeat the point of Veteran dungeons, you could run a Normal dungeon in half the time it takes to do a Veteran and go to the relevant station and upgrade it to epic or Legendary, all the positives gained and none of the time or effort invested.Edited by iiYuki on August 26, 2018 10:09PM"Play how you want... unless its not how we intended you to play in which case we'll nerf it".
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Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes drop blue monster helms in normalSo are people honestly saying that people only run vet due to the sets? It’s coming across as yes.3 -
ck37090✭✭✭✭OtherOther:
I think like a 50% chance to drop a blue helm... Maybe less...25%.. And maybe just for the dlc contentEdited by ck37090 on August 26, 2018 10:07PM2 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, they should drop monster helms without the 1 piece bonus. That's a compromise.0 -
GabiAlex✭✭✭✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalIf you and your group can't finish a veteran dungeon then you aren't ready to do the content that will require a monster set. Instead, I wish for a better way to get the shoulders without so much RNG, I'm trying to get those stupid Seline's Shoulders for months without any luck, and yes, I open the right chest and I'm flooded by Pirate Skeleton and Troll King stuff, also a lot of Selitrix just to put more salt on my wounds.@GabiAlex - PC EU Megaserver
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Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you and your group can't finish a veteran dungeon then you aren't ready to do the content that will require a monster set. Instead, I wish for a better way to get the shoulders without so much RNG, I'm trying to get those stupid Seline's Shoulders for months without any luck, and yes, I open the right chest and I'm flooded by Pirate Skeleton and Troll King stuff, also a lot of Selitrix just to put more salt on my wounds.
i feel for you.
took me about a year to finally get a skoria shoulder after i got the helm. iirc, it came up on the golden, finally.
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Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So are people honestly saying that people only run vet due to the sets? It’s coming across as yes.
Like in every other game? The reason to do harder/more 'difficult' content, is for better rewards. If there aren't better rewards, why did they bother making it?
At least in any 'progression' game. You do harder content, to get better gear, to do harder content, to get better gear, to do harder content...... etc.6 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes drop blue monster helms in normalKiralyn2000 wrote: »So are people honestly saying that people only run vet due to the sets? It’s coming across as yes.
Like in every other game? The reason to do harder/more 'difficult' content, is for better rewards. If there aren't better rewards, why did they bother making it?
At least in any 'progression' game. You do harder content, to get better gear, to do harder content, to get better gear, to do harder content...... etc.
To give more challenge? That not a thing anymore? Seems not lol.
I genuinely thought I was making a massive assumption that people were only doing them for helms, because that was my reason. Didn’t think I was quite this right.3 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭No don’t drop monster helms in normalObviously.
Only if that helmets can't be improved.- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes drop blue monster helms in normalGiven much of the reward for the vet/hardmode is mastery of th edungeon and it's own unique rewards I dont see the issue with this.4 -
WhiteCoatSyndrome✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just wait for the Golden to have them if I don't want to run the content. >.>#proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
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