Should normal dungeons drop blue monster helms?

Kagukan

Other

Maybe a chance to get the helm on normal.

generalmyrick

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

i guess the bright side of a yes vote would mean levelling a character would get a cool helmet...

but a wasted key for low shoulders...

lagrue

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

Guppet wrote: »

There are constant posts moaning about players not being good enough for vet content. Fake or poor DPS, fake tanks and healers. Content taking too long.

One thing is at the root of all this. Monster helms. The only way to get them is in vet and since the best set ups are now 5-5-2, it’s what everybody should be aiming for.

The best way to improve the average quality of players in vet content, is to make so those that queue for it are there for the actual content.

If normals dropped monster helms in blue, then a significant number of players would not step into vet dungeons, they would then not go in with no clue what they are doing and would not need carrying.

The current “vet is the only place to get critical gear” is hurting the quality of groups that go into vet dungeons and seriously ramping up toxicity.

So should normals drop blue monster helms, in the hopes of significantly improving the quality players that actually run vet content?

Hell no, it would invalidate Vet content completely. Everybody and their dog has 800 Purple Upgrade materials at any given time. Getting a Blue drop from normal might as well just be a Purple Monster Helm handed out on a silver platter.

You can also pull equally as high DPS as 5/5/2 Monster Builds even without actually having a Monster Set. They aren't critical or mandatory - and often times they're so niche that you will find yourself building with regular gear sets and not Monster sets.

Regardless no, they're there in vet for a reason, to give more experienced players loot to chase. This grind was also cut SUBSTANTIALLY with the release of the Transmute system. Your idea is the slippery slope towards blatant handouts.

DeadlyRecluse

I don't really care anymore, but I'd be more okay with CP150 helms dropping in nonvet than blue quality.

ku5h

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

Can we also have normal DSA drop blue Master gear, so i can solo farm it. Finding a group for vDSA is a nightmare for me.

Starlock

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

I love this idea. Anything that removes obstacles that get in the way of realizing the vision I have for my character's design is something I can get behind. I don't really have a problem doing vet dungeons or just waiting for the golden vendor to pop, though. I'd actually rather we got rid of "bind on pickup" before doing something like this. I hardly ever use dungeon sets because I can't stand wasting my time smashing the same dungeon over and over.

GDOFWR420

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

No. IMO it forces those who really want the set to prove they have earned it. Getting them on normal would take away the incentive for harder content to be done. Beating the dungeon on vet proves you've earned it. Bad enough you can buy them in cyrodil.

Skinzz

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

What on earth is happening in the eso world jeebus. Stop watering down the game even more for lazy players not wanting to learn mechanics/improve.

MooseKnuckles88

I vote to make it a <2% chance to drop in blue for monster helms.

This gives people a slight chance while not undermining the purpose of doing vet mechanics. There are those who are maxed cp and still can't get through vet content which is their own problem, but still gives them a chance to get it even if it is extremely low.

ErilAq

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

I voted no for two reasons: as other's have said, it's fairly easy to two-man or solo non DLC vet dungeons, which give some pretty nice helms, and unless you're going for an achievement run, most DLC vets are do-able once you've learned the mechanics.
The other reason is that both PVE and PVP require someone to know the ins and outs of their class, and have a good situational awareness to be good. If you don't have either, no amount of gear is going to save you from people who do or trials/dungeons that require you do.

basically, you're either thinking that (1) somehow gear is the issue to your woes, or (2) you are trying to take the easier way out, and get the BiS gear without having to do the content for it.

Xebov

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

Iccotak wrote: »

You get full sets of dropped + made gear by completing on normal and vet.
THEN you earn the dropped Monster helms from those same dungeons to further increase your power as a reward for completing it on Hard mode.
Then you gain even more power as you use those resources for completing higher level dungeons and the loop continues.
The system works, you just have to put in the work.

Vet HM Pledges for extra Transmutation Crystals and 2 Keys? Achievments? Higher Chances for Motif Pages?

So far i see more players doing the non DLC dungeons on Vet for Transmutation Crystals and 2 Keys than i see anyone asking for helmets.

AoDD33pfri3d

How about Google builds and farm your set to do dps or good heals or best tank. You just wanna be lazy and not take the time and just have it handed to you.

Emma_Overload

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

What 'deal-breaking' otherwise unobtainable monster helm set are people after via norm, just out of curiosity?

For a thread like this to arise, there has to be some specific piece of gear people have in mind?

Zaan. It's ridiculously overpowered in PvP. Getting killed by Zaan is maddening because I'm sure it won't appear at the Golden vendor until it's been nerfed.

Personally, I have a full time job and resent every single minute I have to spend farming PvE gear. My resentment doubles when I have to spend hours watching YouTube videos to learn goofy mechanics for DLC dungeon NOBODY in group finder wants to run because it's too hard.

greylox

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

Yeah it should give a blue helm. The bragging rewards for doing vet are titles and skins.

lagrue

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

greylox wrote: »

The bragging rewards for doing vet are titles and skins.

Protip: No they aren't.

Maybe you should go visit the Dungeons section of you achievements again.... only DLC dungeons give skins and.titles for completing the dungeon... All the vanilla ones don't give titles or skins. The ONLY thing vanilla dungeons have to offer is the Monster Sets and vanilla still constitutes the majority of dungeons by a longshot...

Probably shouldn't be making statements about what bragging rewards for vets should be when you don't even know what they currently are but act like you do...

adeptusminor

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

"Let them eat cake"

Mayrael

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

idk wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

Consdering that all non DLC vet dungeons are basically range from a small speed-bump to a literal cakewalk depending on team comp...I don't really see the need for this.

DLC vet dungeons on the other hand have a CP300 requirement for a reason...

Plus, while having a monster set is meta as ***..outside of trials...you don't really NEED them....and if you're doing trails then a vet dung is a walk in the park

You do know that pvp exists right? One team
Has monster sets and the other doesn’t, assuming equal skill who wins?

So no it’s not optional. Players that don’t want to do vet content are currently forced into to it to be on a even playing field and when they do it, they are woefully inept at it.

You do know Zos has made conscious choices to strongly encourage player solely interested in PvE to do some PvP and to get PvP players to do some PvE so this argument is not very strong with the force.

Vigor, WH, caltrops and purge are skills locked behind PvP that are very beneficial in PvE and required for some roles if a player wants to be competitive in PvE.

Same with Undaunted passives for max stats which pretty much requires doing some PvE dugeons or one is less competitive in PvP. This does not require doing vet content, but can be done in a day or weekend on vet with a decently skilled group vs a pretty long time relying on pledges.

Edit: so the group with the monster helms would probably win. Not because they are evenly skilled but because they are more skilled which is why it was not that big of a deal for them to get the monster helms.

The difference between skills from PvP and gear from PvE is stunning. Skills are 100% sure, doable in one evening and then you don't have to step into PvP zone ever. While getting that desired gear can take days of playing and never ends because of new sets every DLC.

Turelus

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

I've always been a supporter of content dropping their items on easier difficulties but with much lower quality or drop chances.
Having to run the normal version 10 times say for one drop vs, the drop for every vet version. This mean it's still a time investment to farm it, but at least everyone has a chance.

Eso101rus

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

No. If the getting of monster helms is that important to someone, then surely they would do some research and learn how to play their build. I remember running Darkshade 2 many, many times back when it was fairly tough, and you couldn’t exchange helms between group and the drop was randomly rare.

Aesthier

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

At least in any 'progression' game. You do harder content, to get better gear, to do harder content, to get better gear, to do harder content...... etc.

^ in ESO we do initial content, to get mid-level gear, to do mid-level content, to get high-level gear, to do the hardest content, to get the best gear, to complain in the forums how easy initial content is.

/Win

"Forum Complaint Chain Achievement" Completed!

DarcyMardin

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

Yes. Or a green helm...or even a white one. There are plenty of folks who want to spend their time doing challenging content. But it is unrealistic to expect new or casual players, especially those who pug via the dungeon group finder, to be able to complete most of the DLC dungeons on vet mode. Some people find the DLC dungeons hard on normal.

I think making the helm available in normal mode would be a great way to reduce the frequent complaints about Nightmare Pugs and fake tanks, fake DPS, fake healers. Players who know they aren’t likely to finish vet mode without being carried won’t queue for vet if they can get an underpowered helm that completes a monster set. Let the people who really *want* to do vet dungeons have the field to themselves.

greylox

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

lagrue wrote: »

greylox wrote: »

The bragging rewards for doing vet are titles and skins.

Protip: No they aren't.

Maybe you should go visit the Dungeons section of you achievements again.... only DLC dungeons give skins and.titles for completing the dungeon... All the vanilla ones don't give titles or skins. The ONLY thing vanilla dungeons have to offer is the Monster Sets and vanilla still constitutes the majority of dungeons by a longshot...

Probably shouldn't be making statements about what bragging rewards for vets should be when you don't even know what they currently are but act like you do...

Chill dude, you'll do yourself a mischief.....anyway I sorta was thinking of DLC vet ones, normal vet dungeons are easy enough and I have all those helms. And yeah I did assume what bragging rewards were because I don't feel the need to brag so don't really understand those that do.

EvilCroc

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

Every good thing should be acquirable by skill OR by long time investment. Some people (cheetahs) like the feeling of being awesome and good, some people (turtles) like the long, but certain pathways. So very low dropchance is fair.

Doctordarkspawn

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Why though? Non-hm vet dungeons are pretty reasonable in terms of difficulty.

For you.

Nope, I'm not that special. I'm in 2 huge guilds (pve and trading, both are 500/500) and during prime time people are always looking for healers, tanks and dds for veteran pledges and even veteran trials. Grahtwood zone chat is also full of "LFGs", and many people are wearing dungeon and trial skins.
If you think that veteran dungeons are too hard, then I really doubt that monster helmets could change that. Sorry for being blunt, but that's true.
That being said, there is one specific demographic that would really like those blue helmets: the kind of people who make premade groups for nonvet bgs. It's not like they need a buff, though.

I know for a fact that's not true, and like almost everyone who puts fourth their own experiences with difficulty as imperical fact, you miss the point.

Vet, and hardmode, is for the people who want status symbols. That's all that it is anymore. I just want that to be communicated through mechanics. And preferibly make sets not that hard to get for those who just do them for something else, like PVP.

Make it so we can get the damn stuff through normal and let the full suite of status symbol cosmetiucs be through vet and vet HM, and make them harder to compensate. Because that's all they are.

And you can tell me all you like what you think I think, you dont sound any less ridiculous.

karekiz

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

I am confused honestly on some stuff:

1. PvP should 100% be open to every item. This includes raid PvE drops. I have no issue with that. It shouldn't be locked through a weekly waiting merchant. I had the same issue with gold rings/necks having only one way to acquire <Raid/PvP> even though some PvE 4 man content was easily harder than trial counterparts. I am unsure what system to use. Maybe super high AP costs, but every item from PvE should be in PvP.

3. Why monster sets? Honestly? You should campaign for DSA/VMA imperfect/perfect weapon system first. They are far more difficult to acquire timewise. DSA is honestly much easier than most 4 man DLC vet dungeons, but its a PITA to form for, let alone go through rounds and rounds of trash to have someone leave later on due to RL issues <Remember! No group finder even though honestly the final encounter is mostly just on the tank!>.

3. There is really nothing wrong with easier to acquire monster sets.

Stam DPS? Go do Fungal Grotto 1 vet. Really. Just use that for awhile.

Mag DPS? Go do Vaults of Madness. Its easily on par difficulty wise with Fungal Grotto 1.

Healer? Elden Hollow 1. Another beginner dungeon with a basic easy heal set.

Tank? Probably the hardest of an easy rank 1 dungeon set to get. I would advise maybe Swarm Mother as it would at least remove some chaos from newer tanks. Its a rank 1 dungeon, and as long as you don't hit HM the bolt attacks won't hurt as much.

Its just dungeon progression really.

snegurd

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

First of all, having blue monster helms drop on normal means that the same sets are available on veteran and normal; the cost of upgrading armor from blue to purple is not significant.

Monster helms are not status symbols, they provide an extra edge in completing end-game content. Making character advancement progressive (which is what having monster helms drop on vet achieves) is one of the things I like about ESO.

DanteYoda

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

xRIVALENx wrote: »

Everyone can complete Veteran Dungeon content, it is simply a matter of practice, understanding and perseverance. If we hand out helms on Normal we lose one more reason to push to our full potential as a player.

And be EU or American with low ping times...

ankeor

No don’t drop monster helms in normal

How about having it for free?

SugaComa

Other

No but they could drop a token so when you go to the unduanted chest you get the shoulders you want but trait is still random

OneForSorrow

Yes drop blue monster helms in normal

Sure, why not?