What makes MagBlades the king of DPS?

md3788 · August 2018

@Sparr0w so a big benefit is self supplied minor berserk. Since it's almost always available for everyone in a raid setting, why aren't DPS parses done with a healer supplying minor berserk (combat prayer) and elemental drain for classes that aren't NB? To me this would be more accurate since everyone should usually has access to it in a raid

Sparr0w · August 2018

@md3788 Yes they should be since that's an automatic 8% damage increase, however most will see it as 'cheesing' since it's not self buffed. Same with having someone else supply ele drain or off balance, since it will be available in a raid, but solo only classes that run lightning or certain skills will have access to it.

Juhasow · August 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Range,
Off heals,
Will and innate berserk,
Major slayer options,

In short they have not just good dps but utility, and that is sorely lacking with a lot of classes.

Good dps, utility, and very great sustain ( nothing better than a skill that restore magicka and health while doing dps + restore magicka when the skill ends).

Honestly if siphoning strikes and morphs were mages guild abilities there'd be a pretty solid bunch of balance.

Siphoning strikes isn't that big an issue to me, the sustain it supplies is only slightly better than a lot of other similar skills in other classes.

A Magblade can weave light attacks and skills non-stop and have a magicka drain of ~1500 on a 6m dummy parse. That's sustainable. If I do that on my Magplar or Magsorc I have a drain of over 1700. That's unsustainable without sacrificing too much damage, at least on a 6m dummy.

The reason for the difference is simply the free bow proc the Nightblade gets, every 5 seconds or so they get a free skill to use. And instead of that bow proc all other classes are using another spammable which has a cost.

You're right but it's the combination of 3 things really.
1) Free bow proc
2) Cheap ult which becomes another free cast
3) Siphoning strikes which is the best sustain skill for PvE DPS, even if by a little.

The result is the best sustain of any mag class.

I would add cheap strong execute.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Curious, I've always ran a MagDk and I finally just hit 30K on a dummy parse - near perfect rotation with 100% uptime on potions and ele drain. 2x Zaan, 5x BSW, 5x Imperfect Siroria. Gold infused weapons, purple body with almost all divines and gold magicka enchants. Apprentice mundus. 380 CP. The only thing I'm missing is the 5/1/1 bonus (Currently at 6/1), gold body pieces, and a Maelstrom back bar. From what I've been reading and seeing if I throw this set on a MagBlade I should be able to crush that DPS parse. Am I at all right in thinking that? Is there something about MagBlades that make them that much better than others?

How good are you? Mageblades are the apex of ranged magic DPS. They are of course not out parsing most stamina toons in a full raid, but that is a different debate.

What makes mageblades so good in the current meta: Sustain, High Single Target, Mobility, Passive Self heals.

I ask how good you are because not a day goes by when I dont see at least one thread saying please help my mageblade DPS. I see the youtubers hitting 50 and I am stuck in the 20s. Mageblade has a very high ceiling but also a pretty low floor. It is the most difficult rotation in the game, as at the extreme end, it is 100% Dynamic (meaning there is no set order to it). With a static rotation, you will not crush your 30k DPS parse. You might beat it, but circular/static rotations on mageblade usually seem to top out in the mid 30s for most people. No class is more skill dependent than NB.

A mDK rotation is trivial compared to a mageblade. A 30k DPS parse with that gear and CP means you have a basic handle on it, but by no means have mastered it. No reason you can't come close to 40k at your setup. To be blunt, if you cant do a mDK rotation perfectly, mageblade might be a rude awakening. Your weave and buff/DOT management needs to be perfect if you want to hit the youtube parses you are seeing.

Nice thing about mageblade, they are super easy to level. You could literally do the entire main quest with swallow soul, and once you get Sap, you can easily solo any grind spot. Might as well make one and find out.

In one of his last videos, Gilliamtherogue shows a beginner magblade setup able to achieve 43k parses, with static rotation. Just saying.

That honestly doesnt surprise me. He is a really good player, so his static rotation will be about as good as you can expect. I also have not attempted a static rotation since pre-Summerset, and it was when I still wasnt great with merciless, so my experience is going to be on the low end. My guess is 43K will not however be the norm with a static rotation for most people. Also, as people are breaking into the low 50's with a non cheese dynamic rotation, the gap is still pretty wide.

Heimpai wrote: »

Is it easier than stamblade? I only ask as this is basically my first mmo and i struggle to hit 25k dps consistently..idk if sets make a huge difference but i use spriggans with bone pirates/selenes (i know my parse sucks, not used to kb/m)

I wanted to make a magblade but didn’t know if it’d be worth it as i use my character for pvp as well

@Heimpai

The rotatoin itself on a dummy at the extreme end of things for a stamblade is actually slightly easier than a mageblade, as parts of the rotation are actually static. That said, melee is much tougher to play in actual combat, and stameblades dont have the mobility or self heals of a mageblade.

If your goal is to hit big numbers on a dummy, stamina NB is easier. In actual content, Mageblade is easier. I would always suggest starting on magic first.

Bladerunner1 · August 2018

I still use more or less a circular stamblade rotation on my magblade, letting some dots run out and resetting twisting path too early. Even with the wrong rotation and no trials gear my magblade can take down a 3 million health dummy in 60 seconds. The back bar enchantment and dual wield trait changes from the Wolfhunter update now have my magblade nuking the dummy faster than my stamblade in melee range, granted one is a Dunmer (BIS for Magic DPS) and the other a Bosmer (BIS for CUTE).

NyassaV · August 2018

md3788 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Range,
Off heals,
Will and innate berserk,
Major slayer options,

In short they have not just good dps but utility, and that is sorely lacking with a lot of classes.

Good dps, utility, and very great sustain ( nothing better than a skill that restore magicka and health while doing dps + restore magicka when the skill ends).

Honestly if siphoning strikes and morphs were mages guild abilities there'd be a pretty solid bunch of balance.

I don't think they should strip the identity of a nightblade to balance it with other classes, it would just be nice to see a little extra utility to be added to those that struggle. For a MagDk, if burning embers restored health AND magicka when it expired, I think that would be a nice touch.

They already have. The best part is that it didn't do anything for PvE and just shafted PvP

kind_hero · August 2018

I switched some weeks ago to magicka nightblade. I like the play style, I like that I have some heals, the class feels pretty strong, even when facing multiple mobs in public dungeons. You have snares, "dots", "hots", and large damage abilities.

I am not a pro player, so I don't understand how some people do 40-45k dmg on a dummy. I am still working on my gear, but I guess that in my case it is not about the gear, but the skill that I don't have

I can craft any set, and I have 5 pieces of Mother's Sorrow, I also can equip 5 Siroria from my magicka sorc, I use Skoria, but still I never get even half way of those numbers. (I weave, I use assasins will a lot, I really like that ability, I use funnel, etc). I basically try to have all those buffs and dots up all the time.

Anyway... my question is, how can you do this damage that you do on a static dummy, in a dynamic fast paced veteran dungeon or trial fight? Like Cloudrest where you have lots of things going on and have to move a lot. This is true for many fights.

For pro players: what is your advice for improving the dps? How much is OK for veteran non DLC dungeons?

Sparr0w · August 2018

kind_hero wrote: »

I switched some weeks ago to magicka nightblade. I like the play style, I like that I have some heals, the class feels pretty strong, even when facing multiple mobs in public dungeons. You have snares, "dots", "hots", and large damage abilities.

I am not a pro player, so I don't understand how some people do 40-45k dmg on a dummy. I am still working on my gear, but I guess that in my case it is not about the gear, but the skill that I don't have I can craft any set, and I have 5 pieces of Mother's Sorrow, I also can equip 5 Siroria from my magicka sorc, I use Skoria, but still I never get even half way of those numbers. (I weave, I use assasins will a lot, I really like that ability, I use funnel, etc). I basically try to have all those buffs and dots up all the time.

Anyway... my question is, how can you do this damage that you do on a static dummy, in a dynamic fast paced veteran dungeon or trial fight? Like Cloudrest where you have lots of things going on and have to move a lot. This is true for many fights.

For pro players: what is your advice for improving the dps? How much is OK for veteran non DLC dungeons?

@kind_hero Don't worry, magblades take a while to break the 25/30k mark, weaving has to be flawless.

As for vet non DLC honestly if a DD was pulling 15k I'd be happy with that, even DLC ones 15-20k is perfectly adequate

My advice for now would be to time everything from Cripple & place that on your front bar, so when cripple runs out cast Cripple > Swap > Blockade > Twisting/Refreshing. Then time Merciless & Siphoning together. Eventually you will get to the stage where you can cast Twisting/Refreshing dynamically, as well as split up merciless and siphoning so merciless has 100% uptime. Siphoning is fine to drop off for a couple of seconds.

You can do it in highly mobile fights as eventually it gets burned into muscle memory, so you don't even have to think about a rotation. Think mine alligns back up around 40/50 seconds, and the entire rotation I can now do without thinking about it.

kind_hero · August 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

@kind_hero Don't worry, magblades take a while to break the 25/30k mark, weaving has to be flawless.

As for vet non DLC honestly if a DD was pulling 15k I'd be happy with that, even DLC ones 15-20k is perfectly adequate

My advice for now would be to time everything from Cripple & place that on your front bar, so when cripple runs out cast Cripple > Swap > Blockade > Twisting/Refreshing. Then time Merciless & Siphoning together. Eventually you will get to the stage where you can cast Twisting/Refreshing dynamically, as well as split up merciless and siphoning so merciless has 100% uptime. Siphoning is fine to drop off for a couple of seconds.

You can do it in highly mobile fights as eventually it gets burned into muscle memory, so you don't even have to think about a rotation. Think mine alligns back up around 40/50 seconds, and the entire rotation I can now do without thinking about it.

On my front bar I have merciless and siphoning strikes so I can cast them both. I also have blockade of fire, and sometimes I change it to flame clench when I need it. I slot inner light (mages guild) and refreshing path. On the back bar I have crippling grasp and funnel health. I like to have refreshing path for the heals, I think it is useful to have some heal during fights, because you do zero damage while dead. My main staff is inferno legendary and nirnhoned with weapon dmg enchant. I am not sure yet what should I use for the back bar staff... (I haven't made the 2nd one gold yet, so I still can decide)

Sparr0w · August 2018

kind_hero wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

@kind_hero Don't worry, magblades take a while to break the 25/30k mark, weaving has to be flawless.

As for vet non DLC honestly if a DD was pulling 15k I'd be happy with that, even DLC ones 15-20k is perfectly adequate

My advice for now would be to time everything from Cripple & place that on your front bar, so when cripple runs out cast Cripple > Swap > Blockade > Twisting/Refreshing. Then time Merciless & Siphoning together. Eventually you will get to the stage where you can cast Twisting/Refreshing dynamically, as well as split up merciless and siphoning so merciless has 100% uptime. Siphoning is fine to drop off for a couple of seconds.

You can do it in highly mobile fights as eventually it gets burned into muscle memory, so you don't even have to think about a rotation. Think mine alligns back up around 40/50 seconds, and the entire rotation I can now do without thinking about it.

On my front bar I have merciless and siphoning strikes so I can cast them both. I also have blockade of fire, and sometimes I change it to flame clench when I need it. I slot inner light (mages guild) and refreshing path. On the back bar I have crippling grasp and funnel health. I like to have refreshing path for the heals, I think it is useful to have some heal during fights, because you do zero damage while dead. My main staff is inferno legendary and nirnhoned with weapon dmg enchant. I am not sure yet what should I use for the back bar staff... (I haven't made the 2nd one gold yet, so I still can decide)

@kind_hero
There's 2 'BiS' bar setups you can go for:
Impale | Funnel | Path | Merciless | Inner || Destro
Blockade | Crippling | (Free slot, usually a shield) | Siphoning | Trap/Acceleration/Inner || Soul Harvest

or

Impale | Ele weapon (psijic)/Force Pulse | Cripple | Merciless | Inner || Destro (or Meteor if running FP)
Blockade | Path | (Free slot, usually shield) | Siphoning | Trap/Acceleration/Inner || Soul Harvest

Running those ensures you have all necessary passives on both bars, on the second one you can swap Cripple and Siphoning around, but that means less time on your front bar.

As for the second staff you can either run an infused of your current set, vMA staff if you have it, or you can go willpower.

I opt for the second setup & run Refreshing path also, the difference in damage is pretty small (like 1k).

Saint314Louis1985 · August 2018

Hitting 47k on 3mil parse self buffed with static rotation on console. It can be done. Wearing bsw and master architect.

cpuScientist · August 2018

This magBlade is difficult thing needs to stop. Dynamic rotations are more difficult period. Static rotations are static rotations easy peasy. They are getting 50k no cheese with static just letting path run down. Dynamic nets a bit more, and it's difficult regardless of class. Even magPlar lol that has a six second dot. MagSorc with 10 second dot and 11.5 second curse that if reapplied is wasted, and then RNG frag. MagDK is pretty circular last I played it but still has his matched dot times.

This notion that magBlade is this amazingly intricate nuanced high skill class to get high dps on is silly. Many people leave their main practice on a magBlade for an hour give or take and are already beating the very best they had on their mains. It's not rocket science.

cpuScientist · August 2018

What makes magBlades the best is they have the best sustain, they have the best execute (maybe radiant takes this now but with light attack buff and the cheapness of this mehhhhhhh) minor beserk so if healers don't keep uptime high. And then finally and most importantly 20% damage from soul harvest. That's up alot.

FearTurbo just did a very nice series where every buff like beserk sustain concussion was equalized and magBlade cane out on top by a small margin. But it did come out on top and it is the best sustain with self heals...

I remember people used to be pissed with StamDK and stamSorc because they could do a heavy attack rotation thus having the best sustain and high damage. And people would say high sustain should not have high damage. But now it's ok.

I love Nightblade. I think they are in a really satisfying place right now and really should not be nerfed. But the other classes need to be raised to their level, this is NOT a time to balance by Nerf and hopefully ZOS buffs and really makes the other classes better able to compete.

Juhasow · August 2018

cpuScientist wrote: »

What makes magBlades the best is they have the best sustain, they have the best execute (maybe radiant takes this now but with light attack buff and the cheapness of this mehhhhhhh) minor beserk so if healers don't keep uptime high. And then finally and most importantly 20% damage from soul harvest. That's up alot.

FearTurbo just did a very nice series where every buff like beserk sustain concussion was equalized and magBlade cane out on top by a small margin. But it did come out on top and it is the best sustain with self heals...

I remember people used to be pissed with StamDK and stamSorc because they could do a heavy attack rotation thus having the best sustain and high damage. And people would say high sustain should not have high damage. But now it's ok.

I love Nightblade. I think they are in a really satisfying place right now and really should not be nerfed. But the other classes need to be raised to their level, this is NOT a time to balance by Nerf and hopefully ZOS buffs and really makes the other classes better able to compete.

Buffs are good in the games with low power creep. Eso is not one of them so I would rather preffer nb nerfs then buffs for other classes. Too much buffs can be worse then nerfs.

SilverWF · August 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Well, as magNB I'm usually struggling in clearing tons of trash, while I has no any problems with it at magSorc

Justsaying...

Try Sap Essence ? Just saying...

With the same success you can suggest to use Pulse - a reason to instakick DD from group, along with hard casting Frags and other dumb stuff.

John_Falstaff · August 2018

@SilverWF , you mean Force Pulse? And what's wrong with it? Plenty of people use it as a spammable (including magblades, as alternative to Funnel/Swallow), on all levels.

md3788 · August 2018

@Sparr0w Since you seem quite knowledgable on the class, what set combination would you recommend? In my bank I currently have BSW (Body, jewelry and inferno staff), imperfect Siroria (Body and necklace), Julianos (all), and Mother's sorrow (Jewelry and one or two body pieces). I have just about all the DPS monster sets.

SilverWF · August 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@SilverWF , you mean Force Pulse? And what's wrong with it? Plenty of people use it as a spammable (including magblades, as alternative to Funnel/Swallow), on all levels.

Impulse, sorry - misstyped

Sparr0w · August 2018

@md3788

Mothers sorrow is bis on a Nightblade since they get an extra 10% crit hit damage. This can be active all the time or front barred.

Pair mothers sorrow with either:

Siroria (perfect or imperfect) is bis in stack and burn fights since the full stack is 600 spell damage. Keep this active on both bars.

BSW favours more mobile fights since you'll get a higher uptime on 500 spell damage. This should be front barred.

Julianos favours fights with a lot of mechanics, not many fights like this so I just carry the other 3.

As for monster sets that's your decision to make. I use Zaan since it's strongest & I tend to play within melee range. Skoria if you need the extra health or are fighting a mobile target. Grothdaar is also a choice for heavy AoE.