Suggestion: Better tanking

Salvas_Aren · August 2018

To keep this short: There is a plethora of DD skill lines and skills in mixed skill lines. Same is true for healing, if you consider the restoration staff skill line as an exclusive healing skill line.

Tanks? They got THREE taunts, each draws the attention of ONE target. Two are weapon specific, one active, one passive. There is one skill line that could be considered a tanking one, but it got no aoe taunt. One single target taunt, some buffs and debuffs and an ulti that does not really match, imo.

Is this intentional by Zeni, that groups of ads and critters have to be pulled by a pseudo taunt?

I think the weapon+shield skill line needs some facelift, maybe a second tank skill line to complement it.

Not part of the topic, but interesting: The Undaunted Guild is the only one without ulti. Not counting thieves and DB which only have passives.

DMuehlhausen · August 2018

Yes, they have said they don't want AoE taunts.

I find it more enjoyable this way. You actually have to watch what you are doing and prioritize targets. You can't just walk in like a pally in WoW and consecrate and boom nobody can pull aggro.

Krayl · August 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Is this intentional by Zeni, that groups of ads and critters have to be pulled by a pseudo taunt?

It's by design there is no AOE taunt. Unlike most other MMO's, your DPS and healers can block and dodge and slot a plethora of support skills to wipe their own butts.

Thrain · August 2018

Maybe more player would like to play as tank then
My tank is dk and if theres a lot of enemies i have to spam my claws so my group can deal the dmg perfectly
It really pisses me off sometimes a aoe taunt would be way better (and for most runs even way faster^^)

The first good idea except the necromancer one while all crying about nerfs

Krayl · August 2018

Yes i'm sorry that you have to do more as a tank than just spam an AOE taunt.

Thrain · August 2018

Krayl wrote: »

Yes i'm sorry that you have to do more as a tank than just spam an AOE taunt.

looks like you never saw a real tank saving his dead group from a wipe

Onefrkncrzypope · August 2018

I wish for a better use of the ice staff my shelf. Instead of the passive taunt and maim I wish it would have a chance for a X amount armour shatter/breach. It would appease the ice mages and make ice staffs truly for tanking.

also move taunt to ele susceptibility for ice staff to keep it all fine when people use the dang staff( add cost to the skill and remove the perma uptime)

AlnilamE · August 2018

There s no AoE taunt. You have to know what you are doing to be a good tank. Prioritize your targets, move to the right spots to draw enemies in.

If your DPS is too trigger happy and pulls before you, let them die.

Azuramoonstar · August 2018

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I wish for a better use of the ice staff my shelf. Instead of the passive taunt and maim I wish it would have a chance for a X amount armour shatter/breach. It would appease the ice mages and make ice staffs truly for tanking.

also move taunt to ele susceptibility for ice staff to keep it all fine when people use the dang staff( add cost to the skill and remove the perma uptime)

i haven't had issues tanking with an ice staff. i found it easier ti use then a slotted tank skill.

Onefrkncrzypope · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I wish for a better use of the ice staff my shelf. Instead of the passive taunt and maim I wish it would have a chance for a X amount armour shatter/breach. It would appease the ice mages and make ice staffs truly for tanking.

also move taunt to ele susceptibility for ice staff to keep it all fine when people use the dang staff( add cost to the skill and remove the perma uptime)

i haven't had issues tanking with an ice staff. i found it easier ti use then a slotted tank skill.

no armor shatter and a channeled taunt is a bit dangerous.

Salvas_Aren · August 2018

One issue remains, no matter how hard you try to talk me out of my own thread (which is by the way property of Zenimax Online Services):

There is no stam taunt that works independent from a specific weapon gear up in the whole game.

This is actually wrong, but having to decide is somehow sad.

Royaji · August 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

One issue remains, no matter how hard you try to talk me out of my own thread (which is by the way property of Zenimax Online Services):

There is no stam taunt that works independent from a specific weapon gear up in the whole game.

I can't talk you out of your thread but I can prove you wrong.

Inner Beast, one of the morphs of Inner Fire is indeed a stamina taunt that can be used with any weapon.

Salvas_Aren · August 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

One issue remains, no matter how hard you try to talk me out of my own thread (which is by the way property of Zenimax Online Services):

There is no stam taunt that works independent from a specific weapon gear up in the whole game.

I can't talk you out of your thread but I can prove you wrong.

Inner Beast, one of the morphs of Inner Fire is indeed a stamina taunt that can be used with any weapon.

Really, thought both morphs were magicka. My bad.

EvilAutoTech · August 2018

I don't see any roi for an AOE taunt. Experienced tanks wouldn't want it and inexperienced tanks likely couldn't handle it.

MartiniDaniels · August 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I wish for a better use of the ice staff my shelf. Instead of the passive taunt and maim I wish it would have a chance for a X amount armour shatter/breach. It would appease the ice mages and make ice staffs truly for tanking.

also move taunt to ele susceptibility for ice staff to keep it all fine when people use the dang staff( add cost to the skill and remove the perma uptime)

i haven't had issues tanking with an ice staff. i found it easier ti use then a slotted tank skill.

A lot of bosses shrug off taunt when they perform special action so you must restore taunt immediately.. not to say how much time you out of blocking when you taunt with ice heavy.. though i have it on second bar and use from to time and it's certainly useful, but it's viability is far even from inner fire not to say to pierce armor.. with pierce armor you taunt five mobs in 4 seconds, debuff them and all that for laughable amount of stamina. With ice staff you will make only 1 taunt in that time and lol you may miss your taunt if enemy moves abruptly..

As for the topic, there are set taunts, though exotic but they still provide alternative (like taunting with charge)

Salvas_Aren · August 2018

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

As for the topic, there are set taunts, though exotic but they still provide alternative (like taunting with charge)

Not like taunting with charge. In fact it is taunting with charge, because tormentor is the only set that grants a set taunt. Ofc they used a useless set for this 5 piece bonus.

DuskMarine · August 2018

itd be nice to have a bit more fun as a tank outside of the taunt this watch it die stuff we do.

ZOS_Mika · August 2018

We have recently removed a few unnecessary and insulting comments from this thread. Please ensure that this discussion remains on topic and civil. Thanks!

Dubhliam · August 2018

Thrain wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

Yes i'm sorry that you have to do more as a tank than just spam an AOE taunt.

looks like you never saw a real tank saving his dead group from a wipe

If you tanked better, your group mates might never have died in the first place.

Don't focus on your good stuff, always ask yourself how could I have done better. Don't stagnate, Improve, outgrow.

Starlock · August 2018

Thrain wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

Yes i'm sorry that you have to do more as a tank than just spam an AOE taunt.

looks like you never saw a real tank saving his dead group from a wipe

Reason I like being a templar tank. Faster rez for when everyone forgot to block a boss aoe or stood in stupid.

Thrain · August 2018

Dubhliam wrote: »

Thrain wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

Yes i'm sorry that you have to do more as a tank than just spam an AOE taunt.

looks like you never saw a real tank saving his dead group from a wipe

If you tanked better, your group mates might never have died in the first place.

Don't focus on your good stuff, always ask yourself how could I have done better. Don't stagnate, Improve, outgrow.

I mean random group mates and many of them (believe me) think that their healer is their own necromancer cuz they keep standing in all aoes, dont block or dodgerole anything. thats why they die^^

I guess at this point its not my fault anymore

psxfloh · August 2018

Maybe the wish for an AoE taunt would not be so great if the cooldown of the single target taunts would be lowered, like only 0.5s or even less...
And prioritizing un-taunted targets when using a taunt ability on clustered mobs would help too, especially when using a controller.

Taunting several targets in a row is just meh. I always have to watch 2-4 mobs just ignore me and run straight to the healer or DDs. Of course I can use talons to stop them, but that won't make them attack me. And then there's the stray mob that was just not in talon's range, plus a few ranged mobs, that keep ignoring the tank even when pulled with chains.

Guppet · August 2018

I think one nice change they could make without going AOE for taunts is to have chains, leash and gate also apply it.

If your pulling in those mobs it’s taking resources and you could do with them on you.

It’s a nice middle ground and may encourage more new tanks to start mob stacking.

ccfeeling · August 2018

I am ok with no AOE taunt in this game but ZOS could you please rework the TIME STOP , good tank has to control the crowd real quick , if you wanna increase the class diversity , please consider , thank you !

99% end tank game is DK , that's what you want ? Seriously ?

PouletRico · August 2018

I was frustrated at first too, but no AoE taunt is actually something I enjoy in this game. Like others said, it's all about prioritizing the most important mob(s).

The entire game has been designed that way, add a AoE taunt in the game and you'll break a big part of the PvE content.

psxfloh wrote: »

that keep ignoring the tank even when pulled with chains.

This is so annoying, way too many mobs are immune to chains imo.

Sparr0w · August 2018

Guppet wrote: »

I think one nice change they could make without going AOE for taunts is to have chains, leash and gate also apply it.

If your pulling in those mobs it’s taking resources and you could do with them on you.

It’s a nice middle ground and may encourage more new tanks to start mob stacking.

Yup having to leash then taunt something really kills the stam pool.

Bevik · August 2018

AOE taunt and AOE stuns maybe triple chain morph. Some build up powerful skill like giving mass defense for all for x seconds. Mass debuffs. More unique tank skills for different classes. Look at Lineage 2 tanking. Hell that was enjoyable.

AhPook_Is_Here · August 2018

As a tank I don't really see the need for an aoe taunt. I can see the attraction, as on some fights you have to prioritize a number of adds, like the frost or swamp level used to be in VetDSA, but we have a lot of tools to buy time.

The main reason the game was designed this way is because agro isn't based on damage*taunt-multiplier, in games like Wow building agro takes time against your team's concentrated single target dps, so having a short duration snap aoe agro tool is handy and gives off-tanks a purpose as well at times. Taunts in this game, as you know, are binary other than the immunity buff that mobs can gain from incompetent or malicious dd players, de-agro mechanics of specific fights and a few bosses that are simply immune to taunt mechanics. You also have a very leisurely duration on your taunts and unless you are addicted to holding block, resource management is never a problem.

The main reason people don't like tanking is CP builds, morphs and stat allocations don't transfer well between PVE and PVP play, not that they are great for DD builds but the difference in what is often considered mandatory choices are far more severe. If you want more tanks in PVE, make tanking PVE skills more useful in PVP, or create CP, morph and stat allocation "tabs" so you could have a PVP CP allocation and a PVE one without having to respec.

What a lot of us tanks do is use "post-hybrid" hybrid builds, where we make a number of compromises to have both game modes enjoyable, at the cost of managing a lot of gear and a bit of disappointment in both game modes.

UrQuan · August 2018

For group PVE content (dungeons & trials, both non-vet & vet), I primarily tank. That's been my main role in ESO for years now.

If you want to take a role that requires you to think about positioning (which may include starting the fight where the greatest concentration of mobs already is), target priority (as in which targets are the most important to keep away from the rest of your group), and crowd control (both snares and roots) to give you time to get the attention of the highest priority targets, and then change that role to be a boring, braindead point & click & do it in your sleep role... Well then yes, an AOE taunt would be a great way to do that.

I support the idea of adding a greater variety of taunts to the game, but they should all be single target taunts, just with different additional benefits (like the debuffs of pierce armour vs. the range of inner fire), and from different skill lines. An AOE taunt would be an absolutely terrible dumbing-down of all group PVE content.

aeowulf · August 2018

AOE taunt exists, kinda. You just need to know how agro works.

Bladerunner1 · August 2018

I saw an idea in another thread I liked for nightblades: a skill that draws in a cluster of enemies for a few seconds, like the opposite of a Nightblade fear. Not sure what the theme would be - a charm, a black hole, berserk status, I dunno. In fact, add a berserk status to enemies hit with an AOE taunt, some people on the forums can't make up their minds on whether it would be absolutely useless or an "I win" button that makes tanking boring, so just make the enemy hit 15% harder afterward and it becomes a situational thing.

I'm in favor of any changes that help a non meta class bufftank feel less like a 2 ton laser pointer dragging through a dungeon.