Suggestion: Better tanking

xan4silkb14_ESO

aeowulf wrote: »

AOE taunt exists, kinda. You just need to know how agro works.

I'm kinda new, only been playing about 4 months now. I figure caltrops and/or eruption is kinda like an AOE taunt. I rush in, use some AOE DoTs on the enemies and then taunt the boss.

M'Hael

Krayl wrote: »

It's by design there is no AOE taunt. Unlike most other MMO's, your DPS and healers can block and dodge and slot a plethora of support skills to wipe their own butts.

This is what they told us before the game even launched. Many of the mobs are not strong enough to one-shot light armor DD or Healers and therefore can be handled by DD. Unfortunately that message hasn't seemed to last through the years and many players EXPECT the tank to have taunted everything. ESO tanking has always been about target priority and DD/Healers being able to handle a little agro from low-threat mobs.

It might be nice to see an evolution to the game where they add in a world or guild skill that can be used as a cleaving taunt from melee range. The only real pain in the ass of single taunt is when you are already holding your 4-8 priority targets and need to keep a taunt on each if you want to be ABSOLUTELY sure none gets away. Most the time keeping aoe on them once they are good and stuck works fine .... most the time.

UrQuan

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

I saw an idea in another thread I liked for nightblades: a skill that draws in a cluster of enemies for a few seconds, like the opposite of a Nightblade fear. Not sure what the theme would be - a charm, a black hole, berserk status, I dunno. In fact, add a berserk status to enemies hit with an AOE taunt, some people on the forums can't make up their minds on whether it would be absolutely useless or an "I win" button that makes tanking boring, so just make the enemy hit 15% harder afterward and it becomes a situational thing.

I'm in favor of any changes that help a non meta class bufftank feel less like a 2 ton laser pointer dragging through a dungeon.

Actually that's not a bad idea. An AOE taunt that also added a significant buff to all targets hit by it and/or a significant debuff to the character using the AOE taunt would be a way to add an AOE taunt without it dumbing down group content. But I highly doubt the majority people asking for an AOE taunt would be satisfied with that, because it would have to come with a big enough disadvantage to make it something that you'd have to use strategically. The people who want an AOE taunt are not exactly the people who want to have to play strategically.

Bevik

M'Hael wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

It's by design there is no AOE taunt. Unlike most other MMO's, your DPS and healers can block and dodge and slot a plethora of support skills to wipe their own butts.

This is what they told us before the game even launched. Many of the mobs are not strong enough to one-shot light armor DD or Healers and therefore can be handled by DD. Unfortunately that message hasn't seemed to last through the years and many players EXPECT the tank to have taunted everything. ESO tanking has always been about target priority and DD/Healers being able to handle a little agro from low-threat mobs.

It might be nice to see an evolution to the game where they add in a world or guild skill that can be used as a cleaving taunt from melee range. The only real pain in the ass of single taunt is when you are already holding your 4-8 priority targets and need to keep a taunt on each if you want to be ABSOLUTELY sure none gets away. Most the time keeping aoe on them once they are good and stuck works fine .... most the time.

Unfortunately if a newbie tank asks what to taunt the answer is everything. With time and experience you will know what to taunt anyway. DDs should burn trash down in no time anyway.

UrQuan

xan4silkb14_ESO wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

AOE taunt exists, kinda. You just need to know how agro works.

I'm kinda new, only been playing about 4 months now. I figure caltrops and/or eruption is kinda like an AOE taunt. I rush in, use some AOE DoTs on the enemies and then taunt the boss.

I mean those aren't taunts, but as long as you hit the mobs with them before anyone else does, they'll focus on you first. It won't necessarily hold their attention (because it's not a taunt), but a good opener for a tank is generally to drop an AOE damage skill with a snare component on a group of mobs. That's part of what I was talking about earlier in the thread with using CC to give yourself time to taunt the highest priority targets - they'll start focusing on you, and even if they switch focus relatively quickly the snare will slow them and give you the time you need to taunt the ones you need to taunt.

Salvas_Aren

I see that a full aoe taunt is not welcome.

How about a taunting aura, a war cry or so that taunts on close distance, like 4 or 8 meters? Maybe a cheap ulti taunt?

It would even help if it would not taunt but prolong or renew other taunts.

DuskMarine

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

I see that a full aoe taunt is not welcome.

How about a taunting aura, a war cry or so that taunts on close distance, like 4 or 8 meters? Maybe a cheap ulti taunt?

It would even help if it would not taunt but prolong or renew other taunts.

a aoe taunt would be fully welcome honestly anything outside of block or die would be a nice change of pace for tanking.

Wifeaggro13

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

To keep this short: There is a plethora of DD skill lines and skills in mixed skill lines. Same is true for healing, if you consider the restoration staff skill line as an exclusive healing skill line.

Tanks? They got THREE taunts, each draws the attention of ONE target. Two are weapon specific, one active, one passive. There is one skill line that could be considered a tanking one, but it got no aoe taunt. One single target taunt, some buffs and debuffs and an ulti that does not really match, imo.

Is this intentional by Zeni, that groups of ads and critters have to be pulled by a pseudo taunt?

I think the weapon+shield skill line needs some facelift, maybe a second tank skill line to complement it.




Not part of the topic, but interesting: The Undaunted Guild is the only one without ulti. Not counting thieves and DB which only have passives.

an AOE taunt wont solve the fact that this game design is a dps centric crap fest. everything else was an afterthought.

Azuramoonstar

UrQuan wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

I saw an idea in another thread I liked for nightblades: a skill that draws in a cluster of enemies for a few seconds, like the opposite of a Nightblade fear. Not sure what the theme would be - a charm, a black hole, berserk status, I dunno. In fact, add a berserk status to enemies hit with an AOE taunt, some people on the forums can't make up their minds on whether it would be absolutely useless or an "I win" button that makes tanking boring, so just make the enemy hit 15% harder afterward and it becomes a situational thing.

I'm in favor of any changes that help a non meta class bufftank feel less like a 2 ton laser pointer dragging through a dungeon.

Actually that's not a bad idea. An AOE taunt that also added a significant buff to all targets hit by it and/or a significant debuff to the character using the AOE taunt would be a way to add an AOE taunt without it dumbing down group content. But I highly doubt the majority people asking for an AOE taunt would be satisfied with that, because it would have to come with a big enough disadvantage to make it something that you'd have to use strategically. The people who want an AOE taunt are not exactly the people who want to have to play strategically.

aoe taunting wouldn't dumb things down. in fact it would increase the speed of pulls as you could aoe taunt more packs of mobs to burn down.

last mmo i played with only a solo taunt was ff11, but you faught 1 mob at a time outside dynamis in which you had 3 tanks taunt the mob groups while mage players burned down a set of mobs, and dps another type of mob.
most mmo with multiple mob groups typically have an aoe taunt as a tank is suppose to tank everything, not just the big bad of a group.

a class/role's most basic role should be easy, as it is essential in group content.
tanking- as in taunting mobs away from dps/healer should be the easy bit, the damage/defence balance should be the mastery bit.
healing- curing the group should be the easy bit, the mastery comes in to play with when to cure, and when to dps. (maybe when to buff, when to debuff)

DD (gamage dealer) dps aspect should be the easy bit, the mastery of it is when to burst, when to go easy, when to dodge.

eso already had a steep learning curve for new players, learning the basics of a role should be added on top of that. As a tank i hated seeing mobs make a b-line for my group the second i taunt an enemy of that group. I feel like i'm a bad tank. '


lastly i don't think people should use subjective concepts as a basis for an argument. someones "too easy" will be another persons "too hard" and vice versa.

imo it bad game design to have a single target taunt when you are set up against large groups of mobs (5+ mobs) don't matter how fast they melt, people should be able to play the role on a basic level well, regardless of skill.

Azuramoonstar

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

To keep this short: There is a plethora of DD skill lines and skills in mixed skill lines. Same is true for healing, if you consider the restoration staff skill line as an exclusive healing skill line.

Tanks? They got THREE taunts, each draws the attention of ONE target. Two are weapon specific, one active, one passive. There is one skill line that could be considered a tanking one, but it got no aoe taunt. One single target taunt, some buffs and debuffs and an ulti that does not really match, imo.

Is this intentional by Zeni, that groups of ads and critters have to be pulled by a pseudo taunt?

I think the weapon+shield skill line needs some facelift, maybe a second tank skill line to complement it.




Not part of the topic, but interesting: The Undaunted Guild is the only one without ulti. Not counting thieves and DB which only have passives.

an AOE taunt wont solve the fact that this game design is a dps centric crap fest. everything else was an afterthought.

name an rpg that isn't about dps?

max_only

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

I saw an idea in another thread I liked for nightblades: a skill that draws in a cluster of enemies for a few seconds, like the opposite of a Nightblade fear. Not sure what the theme would be - a charm, a black hole, berserk status, I dunno. In fact, add a berserk status to enemies hit with an AOE taunt, some people on the forums can't make up their minds on whether it would be absolutely useless or an "I win" button that makes tanking boring, so just make the enemy hit 15% harder afterward and it becomes a situational thing.

I'm in favor of any changes that help a non meta class bufftank feel less like a 2 ton laser pointer dragging through a dungeon.

I’m liking this “charm” idea. Frozen device is a bit like that but I can’t seem to get the hang of it.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Sparr0w wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I think one nice change they could make without going AOE for taunts is to have chains, leash and gate also apply it.

If your pulling in those mobs it’s taking resources and you could do with them on you.

It’s a nice middle ground and may encourage more new tanks to start mob stacking.

Yup having to leash then taunt something really kills the stam pool.

Put a stamia cost reduction glyph on one of your jewelry. Helps a lot, lowers the cost of leash by 5% and Pierce armor by 11%.

Azuramoonstar

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I wish for a better use of the ice staff my shelf. Instead of the passive taunt and maim I wish it would have a chance for a X amount armour shatter/breach. It would appease the ice mages and make ice staffs truly for tanking.

also move taunt to ele susceptibility for ice staff to keep it all fine when people use the dang staff( add cost to the skill and remove the perma uptime)

i haven't had issues tanking with an ice staff. i found it easier ti use then a slotted tank skill.

A lot of bosses shrug off taunt when they perform special action so you must restore taunt immediately.. not to say how much time you out of blocking when you taunt with ice heavy.. though i have it on second bar and use from to time and it's certainly useful, but it's viability is far even from inner fire not to say to pierce armor.. with pierce armor you taunt five mobs in 4 seconds, debuff them and all that for laughable amount of stamina. With ice staff you will make only 1 taunt in that time and lol you may miss your taunt if enemy moves abruptly..

As for the topic, there are set taunts, though exotic but they still provide alternative (like taunting with charge)

the way i play, is i just hold down the button and do heavy attacks, and inbetween hits i use my slotted skills. It keeps my ice shield up from the passive, lets me self cure easy, lets my use slotted dps attacks easy, and keeps my resources up. I am coming from playing video games for 30 years well before tab targeting was even a thing, which started in Zelda Oot with navi acting as a z target cursor. (i play on ps4). I'm used to console combat of Morrowind. (not braggig, just explaining i'm experienced and haven't had issues)

me and my b/f nearly 2 manned a group dungeon as lvl 21s with barely skills/gear to our names made it to the second boss with me acting as both the tank and healer, with him as dps. never had any issues with anything, only died a few times due to him rolling out of my line of sight for my heals.

Guppet

DuskMarine wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

I see that a full aoe taunt is not welcome.

How about a taunting aura, a war cry or so that taunts on close distance, like 4 or 8 meters? Maybe a cheap ulti taunt?

It would even help if it would not taunt but prolong or renew other taunts.

a aoe taunt would be fully welcome honestly anything outside of block or die would be a nice change of pace for tanking.

Current tanking is not block or die. If your doing that your doing it wrong. Your now only supposed to block the massive hits that you don’t want to dodge. Your intended to frequently heavy hit to keep getting resources back also.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

they can aoe taunt in a round about way, it just means the dd's let the tank go in first so they can hold them all in one place, i use pulsar when running with friends and they always let go in first so i can hit pulsar and when held with talons they come in

MartiniDaniels

the way i play, is i just hold down the button and do heavy attacks, and inbetween hits i use my slotted skills. It keeps my ice shield up from the passive, lets me self cure easy, lets my use slotted dps attacks easy, and keeps my resources up. I am coming from playing video games for 30 years well before tab targeting was even a thing, which started in Zelda Oot with navi acting as a z target cursor. (i play on ps4). I'm used to console combat of Morrowind. (not braggig, just explaining i'm experienced and haven't had issues)

me and my b/f nearly 2 manned a group dungeon as lvl 21s with barely skills/gear to our names made it to the second boss with me acting as both the tank and healer, with him as dps. never had any issues with anything, only died a few times due to him rolling out of my line of sight for my heals.

Come on, don't think that you are the only one who came this way from universal "magical tank" with 30k hp which also heals group and puts out some dps.. to common tank with 50k+ hp, crazy resource recovery and only single purpose to survive and make group survive. Of course it's group dependent and dungeon dependent but there are vet2's and dlc dungs where you simply don't have time to reliably taunt with ice HA, you need to control 3-4 targets constantly, block some aoes and dodge other, block hard hits, renew buffs and use synergies.. i don't say that those dungs are impossible without s&b but you need considerably more complex build and cautious approach to do them using HA as main source of taunt. So i don't understand how it can be more convenient to use ice HA instead of plain simple fast pierce armor or inner fire.

On the other hand - i play on PC, so it can be absolutely another game on PS4..

MartiniDaniels

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I think one nice change they could make without going AOE for taunts is to have chains, leash and gate also apply it.

If your pulling in those mobs it’s taking resources and you could do with them on you.

It’s a nice middle ground and may encourage more new tanks to start mob stacking.

Yup having to leash then taunt something really kills the stam pool.

Put a stamia cost reduction glyph on one of your jewelry. Helps a lot, lowers the cost of leash by 5% and Pierce armor by 11%.

And miss permablock? never.. all my experiments with "original" builds ended when I came to normal scalecaller as tank and those exploding rats eat my stamina like hell while i used non-jeweled block..

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I think one nice change they could make without going AOE for taunts is to have chains, leash and gate also apply it.

If your pulling in those mobs it’s taking resources and you could do with them on you.

It’s a nice middle ground and may encourage more new tanks to start mob stacking.

Yup having to leash then taunt something really kills the stam pool.

Put a stamia cost reduction glyph on one of your jewelry. Helps a lot, lowers the cost of leash by 5% and Pierce armor by 11%.

And miss permablock? never.. all my experiments with "original" builds ended when I came to normal scalecaller as tank and those exploding rats eat my stamina like hell while i used non-jeweled block..

with 7 sturdy and all relevant passive with 2 block cost reductions, you get 398 stam cost per block. with 3 block cost reductions you get 337. a difference of 61 cost. if your build cant permablock with only 61 cost difference, there is something wrong there. i personally have a block cost on both my tanks around 500 cost per block and i do just fine.

MartiniDaniels

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I think one nice change they could make without going AOE for taunts is to have chains, leash and gate also apply it.

If your pulling in those mobs it’s taking resources and you could do with them on you.

It’s a nice middle ground and may encourage more new tanks to start mob stacking.

Yup having to leash then taunt something really kills the stam pool.

Put a stamia cost reduction glyph on one of your jewelry. Helps a lot, lowers the cost of leash by 5% and Pierce armor by 11%.

And miss permablock? never.. all my experiments with "original" builds ended when I came to normal scalecaller as tank and those exploding rats eat my stamina like hell while i used non-jeweled block..

with 7 sturdy and all relevant passive with 2 block cost reductions, you get 398 stam cost per block. with 3 block cost reductions you get 337. a difference of 61 cost. if your build cant permablock with only 61 cost difference, there is something wrong there. i personally have a block cost on both my tanks around 500 cost per block and i do just fine.

Did block mechanics change last patch? Last time i checked jewelry enchantments were subtracting cost from number already reduced by % passives/cp/traits and not before reduce in %.. and i may say for sure that after placing those enchantments me stamina depletes VERY slow, in hard conditions in harsh AOE and with dead/busy/fake healer I will be forced to roll-dodge not because of lack of stamina but because i need to self-heal.. and before block cost enchantments I could only block hard hits and not stand still blocking in harsh AOE..
Of course i may roll-dodge and run around taunting with ice HA instead but my dps-teammates usually won't be happy about moving boss.

MartiniDaniels

i tested it, it's certainly not subtracting so your are right, one block enchantment can be sacrificed for something else

Wifeaggro13

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

To keep this short: There is a plethora of DD skill lines and skills in mixed skill lines. Same is true for healing, if you consider the restoration staff skill line as an exclusive healing skill line.

Tanks? They got THREE taunts, each draws the attention of ONE target. Two are weapon specific, one active, one passive. There is one skill line that could be considered a tanking one, but it got no aoe taunt. One single target taunt, some buffs and debuffs and an ulti that does not really match, imo.

Is this intentional by Zeni, that groups of ads and critters have to be pulled by a pseudo taunt?

I think the weapon+shield skill line needs some facelift, maybe a second tank skill line to complement it.




Not part of the topic, but interesting: The Undaunted Guild is the only one without ulti. Not counting thieves and DB which only have passives.

an AOE taunt wont solve the fact that this game design is a dps centric crap fest. everything else was an afterthought.tje tanking aspects of design are by far the least paid attention by the combat team. Agro , pulling mitigation

UrQuan

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

I saw an idea in another thread I liked for nightblades: a skill that draws in a cluster of enemies for a few seconds, like the opposite of a Nightblade fear. Not sure what the theme would be - a charm, a black hole, berserk status, I dunno. In fact, add a berserk status to enemies hit with an AOE taunt, some people on the forums can't make up their minds on whether it would be absolutely useless or an "I win" button that makes tanking boring, so just make the enemy hit 15% harder afterward and it becomes a situational thing.

I'm in favor of any changes that help a non meta class bufftank feel less like a 2 ton laser pointer dragging through a dungeon.

Actually that's not a bad idea. An AOE taunt that also added a significant buff to all targets hit by it and/or a significant debuff to the character using the AOE taunt would be a way to add an AOE taunt without it dumbing down group content. But I highly doubt the majority people asking for an AOE taunt would be satisfied with that, because it would have to come with a big enough disadvantage to make it something that you'd have to use strategically. The people who want an AOE taunt are not exactly the people who want to have to play strategically.

aoe taunting wouldn't dumb things down. in fact it would increase the speed of pulls as you could aoe taunt more packs of mobs to burn down.

last mmo i played with only a solo taunt was ff11, but you faught 1 mob at a time outside dynamis in which you had 3 tanks taunt the mob groups while mage players burned down a set of mobs, and dps another type of mob.
most mmo with multiple mob groups typically have an aoe taunt as a tank is suppose to tank everything, not just the big bad of a group.

a class/role's most basic role should be easy, as it is essential in group content.
tanking- as in taunting mobs away from dps/healer should be the easy bit, the damage/defence balance should be the mastery bit.
healing- curing the group should be the easy bit, the mastery comes in to play with when to cure, and when to dps. (maybe when to buff, when to debuff)

DD (gamage dealer) dps aspect should be the easy bit, the mastery of it is when to burst, when to go easy, when to dodge.

eso already had a steep learning curve for new players, learning the basics of a role should be added on top of that. As a tank i hated seeing mobs make a b-line for my group the second i taunt an enemy of that group. I feel like i'm a bad tank. '


lastly i don't think people should use subjective concepts as a basis for an argument. someones "too easy" will be another persons "too hard" and vice versa.

imo it bad game design to have a single target taunt when you are set up against large groups of mobs (5+ mobs) don't matter how fast they melt, people should be able to play the role on a basic level well, regardless of skill.

You have a fundamental lack of understanding of ESO group content design. It's not the same as the majority of other MMOs, and it's not meant to be. The way you want it to work (as-in: the basics of each role are brain-dead easy) is explicitly not the way it's intended to work.

This is not those other MMOs where you can't have mobs going after the rest of the group. As the devs have said many times (the first time I remember them saying it was even before launch) it's specifically designed so that the tank has to prioritize which ones he needs to grab aggro on, and it's expected that it won't be all of them. There's no need for the tank to keep every mob off the rest of the group, and in fact the game is designed around the expectation that he won't.

That means that the healers and DPS need to be able to survive getting attacked by the weaker mobs for a time (which isn't difficult even for brand new players), and need to use AOE skills that will burn them down. That's the intended playstyle: everyone needs to pay attention to what's going on and not just sit there and focus entirely on their own role without worrying about the enemies.

What a good tank will do, of course, is to find ways to group up as many of the mobs as possible (generally using various hard & soft CC, pulling in archers & mages with chains & stuff as much as practical, and depending on the fight sometimes using terrain & LOS to get them to group up on their own) to make it easy for the DPS to AOE them down quickly. There's no need to have all of them taunted to do that. Then the rest of the group need to pay attention to their positioning so that they won't get attacked by more than a few of the mobs (unless they judge that they can handle being attacked by them just fine, in which case they can be right in the middle of the group), and burn them down. They'll typically be getting attacked by some of them, and that's the way it's intended to be.

UrQuan

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I wish for a better use of the ice staff my shelf. Instead of the passive taunt and maim I wish it would have a chance for a X amount armour shatter/breach. It would appease the ice mages and make ice staffs truly for tanking.

also move taunt to ele susceptibility for ice staff to keep it all fine when people use the dang staff( add cost to the skill and remove the perma uptime)

i haven't had issues tanking with an ice staff. i found it easier ti use then a slotted tank skill.

A lot of bosses shrug off taunt when they perform special action so you must restore taunt immediately.. not to say how much time you out of blocking when you taunt with ice heavy.. though i have it on second bar and use from to time and it's certainly useful, but it's viability is far even from inner fire not to say to pierce armor.. with pierce armor you taunt five mobs in 4 seconds, debuff them and all that for laughable amount of stamina. With ice staff you will make only 1 taunt in that time and lol you may miss your taunt if enemy moves abruptly..

As for the topic, there are set taunts, though exotic but they still provide alternative (like taunting with charge)

the way i play, is i just hold down the button and do heavy attacks, and inbetween hits i use my slotted skills. It keeps my ice shield up from the passive, lets me self cure easy, lets my use slotted dps attacks easy, and keeps my resources up. I am coming from playing video games for 30 years well before tab targeting was even a thing, which started in Zelda Oot with navi acting as a z target cursor. (i play on ps4). I'm used to console combat of Morrowind. (not braggig, just explaining i'm experienced and haven't had issues)

me and my b/f nearly 2 manned a group dungeon as lvl 21s with barely skills/gear to our names made it to the second boss with me acting as both the tank and healer, with him as dps. never had any issues with anything, only died a few times due to him rolling out of my line of sight for my heals.

If this is your playstyle you're going to have a bad time when you start running into fights where the tank needs to block a lot in order to avoid one-shots and stuns.

For many of the easy boss fights this will work just fine, and almost every boss fight does give you some times when it's safe to throw in a heavy attack. For most of the harder boss fights (especially in DLC dungeons & trials), you need to be very careful about the timing of your heavy attacks, or you're dead. There are almost no fights in the game where you need to permablock (and don't listen to anyone who says otherwise - they're bad tanks who don't know what they're doing), but there are a lot of fights where you need to spend way more time blocking than doing heavy attacks.

The most effective way to tank with an ice staff is to have the ice staff on one bar & sword & board on the other (taunt considerations aside, this also lets you swap between which resource pool you're using for blocking, depending on the current situation - most often I tank with sword & board on both bars, but I do tank this way as well and it can work very well). It is possible to do pure ice staff tanking, but you're handicapping yourself, and you're going to want the Undaunted taunt slotted for the times when you need to grab aggro and it's either not safe to heavy attack (which is a lot of the time when you get past the easiest dungeons), or a heavy attack is going to take too long.

D0PAMINE

Im not a great tank. I've tanked vICP HM successfully. I really wouldnt mind an "oh sh*t" AoE taunt, even if it has a cooldown. Tanking takes practice, but I still have a role to perform in the group im playing with. I understand however, that someone using it could eff up the run big time. I've been using Ashcloud with swarm mother to just reduce enemy speed after pulling them to me which is adequate to allow someone to get a rez or w/e.

D0PAMINE

aeowulf wrote: »

AOE taunt exists, kinda. You just need to know how agro works.

Agreed.