DPS Difference Between Infallible Aether and Srioria?
Valrien
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Let's assume a few things here:
-Magicka Sorcerer
-Healers are not running Infallible
-Rotation has been changed to reliably keep up the 8% debuff every 10 seconds (Replace one Elemental Weap/Force Pulse with a heavy attack. This also helps sustain) but
-Ignore the DPS gain from others gaining the Infallible Aether debuff. Strictly personal.
Just wondering. There are some fights and some groups where you're basically just not able to effectively run Srioria. Was considering other potential sets that could be effectively used.
Especially in groups where the healers are less than stellar and may not actually have Infallible.
Edited by Valrien on August 23, 2018 9:38PM -Magicka Sorcerer
-Healers are not running Infallible
-Rotation has been changed to reliably keep up the 8% debuff every 10 seconds (Replace one Elemental Weap/Force Pulse with a heavy attack. This also helps sustain) but
-Ignore the DPS gain from others gaining the Infallible Aether debuff. Strictly personal.
Just wondering. There are some fights and some groups where you're basically just not able to effectively run Srioria. Was considering other potential sets that could be effectively used.
Especially in groups where the healers are less than stellar and may not actually have Infallible.
Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)
Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Please name the fight where you cant effectively run siroria. People have shown that even in highly mobile fights like VAS+2 that it is BIS. Master architect is preferential for NBs over siroria for some bursty style fights, but for personal DPS, siroria is basically always BIS. Only other exception I can think of is VMA, where the best score pushers typically go BSW.
Not saying you couldnt make IA work, and a sorc is perhaps the class best suited for it if they do enough lighting heavies, but ask yourself, why? As magic sorc is a dead class for competitive DPS, you probably wont see a lot of hard data between the two sets.
I am sure it is perfectly viable in average groups, and might even be nice buff for them. In good groups, you prob wont see it much.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on August 23, 2018 9:52PM1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Please name the fight where you cant effectively run siroria. People have shown that even in highly mobile fights like VAS+2 that it is BIS. Master architect is preferential for NBs over siroria for some bursty style fights, but for personal DPS, siroria is basically always BIS. Only other exception I can think of is VMA, where the best score pushers typically go BSW.
Not saying you couldnt make IA work, and a sorc is perhaps the class best suited for it if they do enough lighting heavies, but ask yourself, why? As magic sorc is a dead class for competitive DPS, you probably wont see a lot of hard data between the two sets.
I am sure it is perfectly viable in average groups, and might even be nice buff for them. In good groups, you prob wont see it much.
Mainly in groups where you're forced to run around every which way due to mechanics that you shouldnt have to worry about
Srioria is easy to use, and I disagree heavily where people say it is not viable because you gotta move so much.
But sh*t happens ya know?Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
SammyFable✭✭✭✭I made a quick and dirty comparison between the two on a dummy:IA:So the difference is quite huge.
Siroria:
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Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SammyFable wrote: »I made a quick and dirty comparison between the two on a dummy:IA:So the difference is quite huge.
Siroria:
What setup did you use to achieve 45k? I've yet to get that high on a dummyValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
drummindrummer✭✭✭IA wins for me when playing my heavy attack pet build. Might not be allowed in some trials but fun nonetheless. Sustain is endless and I can get the same dps on a 25mil dummy.
45-46k with 13k pen. And 46-47k with lover (phone wont let me post pic, will edit it in when I get home)
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MaselClass RepresentativeSammyFable wrote: »I made a quick and dirty comparison between the two on a dummy:IA:So the difference is quite huge.
Siroria:
What setup did you use to achieve 45k? I've yet to get that high on a dummy
Look at the sustain component, the difference between magicka regen and drain is almost 400. That's not even close to being sustainable...
3 million dummies are very vulnerable to statistical outliers as well and allow for builds that aren't sustainable in any fight longer than that, so always do at least a 6 million comparison so you know that sustain is a factor. The sustainable dps of the two builds are probably comparable.
Whether siroria is "BiS" depends on various factors: look at it this way - if you want sirioria in a perfect version to give you as much spell damage as julianos, you need to have an average amount of 6 stacks. Why? Because the maximum magicka bonus is roughly the same as 129 spell damage, so in order to reach the 299 spell damage from julianos, you need 6*30=180 stacks to surpass julianos. On the nonperfect version it is already 10 stacks, since you miss the 129 spell damage equivalent.
If you move a lot and don't generate enough stacks, don't use it. Especially the non-perfect version requires you to stand still a lot to make it worthwhile. People often seem to think that the non-perfect is just as viable as the perfect version, but that is not the case, since it takes 4 seconds longer to reach the same damage boost as the perfect version.
Keep in mind however that if you don't have minor slayer, it will make siroria a bit better, since minor slayer is stronger than any other simple stat bonus.
Infallible aether on a sorcerer is detrimental, since you get a natural concussion uptime and thus the benefit from the guaranteed minor vulnerability is diminished. On a mag dk heavy attack build, aether is better since you don't get concussion naturally.Edited by Masel on August 24, 2018 7:34AMPC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA3 -
coplannb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I always hear BSW or Siroria... I run both. As a DK however I feel more hindered by the small circle (beeing melee range I have to run around much more than a Sorc).
@Masel92
did you test the new Moonhunter Set yet ( https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Moon+Hunter+Set ). It seems to give a comparable boost to damage as BSW without the ramp-up time of Siroria (ofc minor slayer and the additional bonus on perfect siroria are better in dungeons/trials, but I dont run vet trials so I will settle with normal versions)
caveat here is having a poison on at least 1 bar so either no spell damage glyph or no fire glyph, which is probably suboptimal on a DK, but might be really good on a NB or Warden, no?max level: mDK, stamBlade, stamSorc, magPlar, mDen, stamDen, magBlade, stamCro
ESO+
# of mules: 4 (FULL)
maxed bank: FULL -_-
Stop the grind! Get rid of stupid events and daily-quest gallore. Get rid of "have a chance of 1 in a million to get a piece of 1 in 30 to get a stupid motif or pet... wtf..."
And at this point just remove all classes and have everyone choose their set of skills. then balance accordingly to skills always used vs. skills never used.0 -
Ender1310✭✭✭✭Great knowledge here.coplannb16_ESO wrote: »I always hear BSW or Siroria... I run both. As a DK however I feel more hindered by the small circle (beeing melee range I have to run around much more than a Sorc).
@Masel92
did you test the new Moonhunter Set yet ( https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Moon+Hunter+Set ). It seems to give a comparable boost to damage as BSW without the ramp-up time of Siroria (ofc minor slayer and the additional bonus on perfect siroria are better in dungeons/trials, but I dont run vet trials so I will settle with normal versions)
caveat here is having a poison on at least 1 bar so either no spell damage glyph or no fire glyph, which is probably suboptimal on a DK, but might be really good on a NB or Warden, no?
Is there anything in the game that can make your poisons fire often?
I am interested in this myself.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Great knowledge here.coplannb16_ESO wrote: »I always hear BSW or Siroria... I run both. As a DK however I feel more hindered by the small circle (beeing melee range I have to run around much more than a Sorc).
@Masel92
did you test the new Moonhunter Set yet ( https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Moon+Hunter+Set ). It seems to give a comparable boost to damage as BSW without the ramp-up time of Siroria (ofc minor slayer and the additional bonus on perfect siroria are better in dungeons/trials, but I dont run vet trials so I will settle with normal versions)
caveat here is having a poison on at least 1 bar so either no spell damage glyph or no fire glyph, which is probably suboptimal on a DK, but might be really good on a NB or Warden, no?
Is there anything in the game that can make your poisons fire often?
I am interested in this myself.
For magicka, Elemental Blockade would be the most reliable source of poison procs, but also the most reliable source of enchant procs so you'll have to make a sacrifice.
Weapon Damage front bar and poison back bar would give decent enough uptime.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
MaselClass RepresentativeGreat knowledge here.coplannb16_ESO wrote: »I always hear BSW or Siroria... I run both. As a DK however I feel more hindered by the small circle (beeing melee range I have to run around much more than a Sorc).
@Masel92
did you test the new Moonhunter Set yet ( https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Moon+Hunter+Set ). It seems to give a comparable boost to damage as BSW without the ramp-up time of Siroria (ofc minor slayer and the additional bonus on perfect siroria are better in dungeons/trials, but I dont run vet trials so I will settle with normal versions)
caveat here is having a poison on at least 1 bar so either no spell damage glyph or no fire glyph, which is probably suboptimal on a DK, but might be really good on a NB or Warden, no?
Is there anything in the game that can make your poisons fire often?
I am interested in this myself.
For magicka, Elemental Blockade would be the most reliable source of poison procs, but also the most reliable source of enchant procs so you'll have to make a sacrifice.
Weapon Damage front bar and poison back bar would give decent enough uptime.
I tested it on the pts and the uptime was quite bad from the back bar. It works good with a perfected asylum staff and force pulse. Maybe a lightning staff heavy attack build could proc it sufficiently...PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Great knowledge here.coplannb16_ESO wrote: »I always hear BSW or Siroria... I run both. As a DK however I feel more hindered by the small circle (beeing melee range I have to run around much more than a Sorc).
@Masel92
did you test the new Moonhunter Set yet ( https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Moon+Hunter+Set ). It seems to give a comparable boost to damage as BSW without the ramp-up time of Siroria (ofc minor slayer and the additional bonus on perfect siroria are better in dungeons/trials, but I dont run vet trials so I will settle with normal versions)
caveat here is having a poison on at least 1 bar so either no spell damage glyph or no fire glyph, which is probably suboptimal on a DK, but might be really good on a NB or Warden, no?
Is there anything in the game that can make your poisons fire often?
I am interested in this myself.
For magicka, Elemental Blockade would be the most reliable source of poison procs, but also the most reliable source of enchant procs so you'll have to make a sacrifice.
Weapon Damage front bar and poison back bar would give decent enough uptime.
I tested it on the pts and the uptime was quite bad from the back bar. It works good with a perfected asylum staff and force pulse. Maybe a lightning staff heavy attack build could proc it sufficiently...
I never thought about Force Pulse for that.
And does each tick of the heavy have a chance to proc it?Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SammyFable wrote: »I made a quick and dirty comparison between the two on a dummy:IA:So the difference is quite huge.
Siroria:
What setup did you use to achieve 45k? I've yet to get that high on a dummy
Look at the sustain component, the difference between magicka regen and drain is almost 400. That's not even close to being sustainable...
3 million dummies are very vulnerable to statistical outliers as well and allow for builds that aren't sustainable in any fight longer than that, so always do at least a 6 million comparison so you know that sustain is a factor. The sustainable dps of the two builds are probably comparable.
Whether siroria is "BiS" depends on various factors: look at it this way - if you want sirioria in a perfect version to give you as much spell damage as julianos, you need to have an average amount of 6 stacks. Why? Because the maximum magicka bonus is roughly the same as 129 spell damage, so in order to reach the 299 spell damage from julianos, you need 6*30=180 stacks to surpass julianos. On the nonperfect version it is already 10 stacks, since you miss the 129 spell damage equivalent.
If you move a lot and don't generate enough stacks, don't use it. Especially the non-perfect version requires you to stand still a lot to make it worthwhile. People often seem to think that the non-perfect is just as viable as the perfect version, but that is not the case, since it takes 4 seconds longer to reach the same damage boost as the perfect version.
Keep in mind however that if you don't have minor slayer, it will make siroria a bit better, since minor slayer is stronger than any other simple stat bonus.
Infallible aether on a sorcerer is detrimental, since you get a natural concussion uptime and thus the benefit from the guaranteed minor vulnerability is diminished. On a mag dk heavy attack build, aether is better since you don't get concussion naturally.
So....the normal version, not perfected...is it good? or that much better than other slayer sets or anything normal players might throw together? It seems mostly terrible for me. Rather use something else most times.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kylewwefan wrote: »SammyFable wrote: »I made a quick and dirty comparison between the two on a dummy:IA:So the difference is quite huge.
Siroria:
What setup did you use to achieve 45k? I've yet to get that high on a dummy
Look at the sustain component, the difference between magicka regen and drain is almost 400. That's not even close to being sustainable...
3 million dummies are very vulnerable to statistical outliers as well and allow for builds that aren't sustainable in any fight longer than that, so always do at least a 6 million comparison so you know that sustain is a factor. The sustainable dps of the two builds are probably comparable.
Whether siroria is "BiS" depends on various factors: look at it this way - if you want sirioria in a perfect version to give you as much spell damage as julianos, you need to have an average amount of 6 stacks. Why? Because the maximum magicka bonus is roughly the same as 129 spell damage, so in order to reach the 299 spell damage from julianos, you need 6*30=180 stacks to surpass julianos. On the nonperfect version it is already 10 stacks, since you miss the 129 spell damage equivalent.
If you move a lot and don't generate enough stacks, don't use it. Especially the non-perfect version requires you to stand still a lot to make it worthwhile. People often seem to think that the non-perfect is just as viable as the perfect version, but that is not the case, since it takes 4 seconds longer to reach the same damage boost as the perfect version.
Keep in mind however that if you don't have minor slayer, it will make siroria a bit better, since minor slayer is stronger than any other simple stat bonus.
Infallible aether on a sorcerer is detrimental, since you get a natural concussion uptime and thus the benefit from the guaranteed minor vulnerability is diminished. On a mag dk heavy attack build, aether is better since you don't get concussion naturally.
So....the normal version, not perfected...is it good? or that much better than other slayer sets or anything normal players might throw together? It seems mostly terrible for me. Rather use something else most times.
I use my normal Srioria to great effect personally. The difference is only about 1k Magicka.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
SammyFable✭✭✭✭SammyFable wrote: »I made a quick and dirty comparison between the two on a dummy:IA:So the difference is quite huge.
Siroria:
What setup did you use to achieve 45k? I've yet to get that high on a dummy
Setup is BSW, Zaan and obvioulsy Siroria. Despite Zaan it's also what I use in Raids.SammyFable wrote: »I made a quick and dirty comparison between the two on a dummy:IA:So the difference is quite huge.
Siroria:
What setup did you use to achieve 45k? I've yet to get that high on a dummy
Look at the sustain component, the difference between magicka regen and drain is almost 400. That's not even close to being sustainable...
While this is in fact true, in Raids there is a good amount of support in the form of bubbles and worm. With bubbles on cooldown I'm usually able to sustain a LA rotation even in longer fights like vCR. Endless Fury on small adds that need to be killed like the spheres in vCR also helps a lot with sustain. In fights like vAS I preferred going Moondancer over BSW for the chance of extra regen or extra spelldamage. The regen definitely helps a LA rotation and even increased my DPS by quite a bit since I needed less HAs.1 -
MaselClass RepresentativeGreat knowledge here.coplannb16_ESO wrote: »I always hear BSW or Siroria... I run both. As a DK however I feel more hindered by the small circle (beeing melee range I have to run around much more than a Sorc).
@Masel92
did you test the new Moonhunter Set yet ( https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Moon+Hunter+Set ). It seems to give a comparable boost to damage as BSW without the ramp-up time of Siroria (ofc minor slayer and the additional bonus on perfect siroria are better in dungeons/trials, but I dont run vet trials so I will settle with normal versions)
caveat here is having a poison on at least 1 bar so either no spell damage glyph or no fire glyph, which is probably suboptimal on a DK, but might be really good on a NB or Warden, no?
Is there anything in the game that can make your poisons fire often?
I am interested in this myself.
For magicka, Elemental Blockade would be the most reliable source of poison procs, but also the most reliable source of enchant procs so you'll have to make a sacrifice.
Weapon Damage front bar and poison back bar would give decent enough uptime.
I tested it on the pts and the uptime was quite bad from the back bar. It works good with a perfected asylum staff and force pulse. Maybe a lightning staff heavy attack build could proc it sufficiently...
I never thought about Force Pulse for that.
And does each tick of the heavy have a chance to proc it?
Yes, every tick can proc it.PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@SammyFable
Most classes use Mother's Sorrow with Srioria. Would you say that Burning Spellweave does more overall DPS than Mother's on Mag Sorc?Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I tried something, 80% + of minor vulnaribility uptime, no IA, good sustain ( it's an HA attack/dots build, I use elemental weapon instead of HA when i have too much magicka), bi-stat food, apprentice mundus stone,a healer with elemental drain on 3M dummy, no finisher
, and " good " dps
5 necropotence - 2 Zaan - 5 Julianos ( I do not have a necro or siroria lightning staff, Had to test with julianos, the dps may be better with siroria)
Skills:
Edited by Apherius on August 24, 2018 6:53PM0 -
drummindrummer✭✭✭I tried something, 80% + of minor vulnaribility uptime, no IA, good sustain ( it's an HA attack/dots build, I use elemental weapon instead of HA when i have too much magicka), bi-stat food, apprentice mundus stone,a healer with elemental drain on 3M dummy, no finisher , and " good " dps
5 necropotence - 2 Zaan - 5 Julianos ( I do not have a necro or siroria lightning staff, Had to test with julianos, the dps may be better with siroria)
Skills:
You are missing the ancient knowledge passive on front bar because no destro skill. Swap ults around and you will probably get 1-2k more dpsEdited by drummindrummer on August 24, 2018 11:29PM0 -
drummindrummer✭✭✭SammyFable wrote: »I made a quick and dirty comparison between the two on a dummy:IA:So the difference is quite huge.
Siroria:
What setup did you use to achieve 45k? I've yet to get that high on a dummy
Look at the sustain component, the difference between magicka regen and drain is almost 400. That's not even close to being sustainable...
3 million dummies are very vulnerable to statistical outliers as well and allow for builds that aren't sustainable in any fight longer than that, so always do at least a 6 million comparison so you know that sustain is a factor. The sustainable dps of the two builds are probably comparable.
Whether siroria is "BiS" depends on various factors: look at it this way - if you want sirioria in a perfect version to give you as much spell damage as julianos, you need to have an average amount of 6 stacks. Why? Because the maximum magicka bonus is roughly the same as 129 spell damage, so in order to reach the 299 spell damage from julianos, you need 6*30=180 stacks to surpass julianos. On the nonperfect version it is already 10 stacks, since you miss the 129 spell damage equivalent.
If you move a lot and don't generate enough stacks, don't use it. Especially the non-perfect version requires you to stand still a lot to make it worthwhile. People often seem to think that the non-perfect is just as viable as the perfect version, but that is not the case, since it takes 4 seconds longer to reach the same damage boost as the perfect version.
Keep in mind however that if you don't have minor slayer, it will make siroria a bit better, since minor slayer is stronger than any other simple stat bonus.
Infallible aether on a sorcerer is detrimental, since you get a natural concussion uptime and thus the benefit from the guaranteed minor vulnerability is diminished. On a mag dk heavy attack build, aether is better since you don't get concussion naturally.
Not always true. Just depends on what build and rotation you are running. I use a double heavy attack rotation, and the 20% extra vuln from IA plus the extra heavy attack damage makes it pull ahead of siroria for me on my pet sorc. Like 1k more dps.
And also, everyone always only seems to factor in spell damage and max mag. Crit counts too. IA gives a crit bonus where siroria does not.
Highest I've parsed on 6mil is 47.5k.
Necro, IA, ZaanEdited by drummindrummer on August 24, 2018 11:41PM1 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭drummindrummer wrote: »I tried something, 80% + of minor vulnaribility uptime, no IA, good sustain ( it's an HA attack/dots build, I use elemental weapon instead of HA when i have too much magicka), bi-stat food, apprentice mundus stone,a healer with elemental drain on 3M dummy, no finisher , and " good " dps
5 necropotence - 2 Zaan - 5 Julianos ( I do not have a necro or siroria lightning staff, Had to test with julianos, the dps may be better with siroria)
Skills:
You are missing the ancient knowledge passive on front bar because no destro skill. Swap ults around and you will probably get 1-2k more dps
Oh right ! I forgot that, thank !1
