Proposal: Sorc Rework

Valrien · August 2018

Just scrap Sorc as a whole entirely as it is and give them a fresh start. Rework it from the ground up and make it feel like it's actually got it's own playstyle again because as things are...they're frankly much worse off than they were at launch.

It feels like a shell of it's former self where playstyle is concerned. Regardless of whether people feel they are OP or not...Sorcerer just isn't as fun as it used to be.

In terms of balance, it has it's place as a noob killer...the sheer amount of burst it does floors new players and makes them call for nerfs before they fully understand why they're dying.

But I don't want to be a noob killer. I want to be able to kill all types of players in a fair fight that is not one-sided (except Nightblades. They haven't seen a "fair" fight in years and they probably won't ever...but I digress) and be killed by them too.

I guess what I'm saying is this:

Sorc goes through periods of being OP, underpowered, and "just right." But when ZOS hits that "just right" they tend to get nerfed because "just right" for the class FEELS OP when it truly isn't. At this point I'd love for Sorc to just be rebuilt, and give every Sorc out there a class change token that they can choose to use or not use due to the massive rework of their skills.

I don't truly care if Sorc is balanced. It has already been shown that they're either going to be OP or useless and rarely in between...so I just want them to feel good to play again like they did in their hayday.

Lasinagol · August 2018

And make everyone re learn their muscle memory...possibly even hafta regear and farm for that too? No, thankyou....while it is a good idea, well founded...I persobally think adding a summon specific class would be better...or spellcrafting. Wonder how imbalanced that is and why we ain't got that yet...

Valrien · August 2018

Lasinagol wrote: »

And make everyone re learn their muscle memory...possibly even hafta regear and farm for that too? No, thankyou....while it is a good idea, well founded...I persobally think adding a summon specific class would be better...or spellcrafting. Wonder how imbalanced that is and why we ain't got that yet...

Regear? No, probably not.

Gear is a whole different story because right now virtually every magicka DPS uses the same gear so you should really have those sets anyways.

As for muscle memory, it's pretty easy to relearn since people redo their skills all the time. Not to mention Sorc doesn't have much of a rotation to begin with.

I think gear and muscle memory are really poor excuses to just leave a class to rot from the inside out after literal years of countless nerfs and skill changes.

Personally I think Templar should get the same treatment since they pretty much get their once-unique skills (specifically buffs) handed out to anyone who wants them like a flea market.

Didgerion · August 2018

Sorcs are quite well balanced in non-CP world.

CP is a big balance problem, some builds are profiting from multiple trees while others not so much.

They need first to scrap CP, then sorcs will be just fine, or at least it will be easier to tune up (buff or nerf whatever it takes).

Drakkdjinn · August 2018

sorc not broken OP this patch? lets scrap the whole thing, not working as intended

-eso 'community'

Starlock · August 2018

There are only a few things that really feel different to me from back then to now - the huge decrease in shield uptime (it use to be 20 seconds), the reduction of max ult which hurt overload, and the penalty to using streak more than once within a short window. Everything else about my sorc either plays the same as it did, or has improved. Definitely doesn’t need a rework.

Valrien · August 2018

Didgerion wrote: »

Sorcs are quite well balanced in non-CP world.

CP is a big balance problem, some builds are profiting from multiple trees while others not so much.

They need first to scrap CP, then sorcs will be just fine, or at least it will be easier to tune up (buff or nerf whatever it takes).

While I agree the CP system is less than stellar. This isn't about Sorc over- or under-performing. I personally believe they are currently under-performing, but that is irrelevant.

The point of this thread is that Sorcerer has been gutted and nerfed for a long time now and simply does not feel anything like it used to. It was damn fun a long time ago and now it just doesn't feel like much more than a shell of what it used to be.

Valrien · August 2018

Starlock wrote: »

There are only a few things that really feel different to me from back then to now - the huge decrease in shield uptime (it use to be 20 seconds), the reduction of max ult which hurt overload, and the penalty to using streak more than once within a short window. Everything else about my sorc either plays the same as it did, or has improved. Definitely doesn’t need a rework.

The stacking cost to Streak is the biggest part of it. Streak used to be the bread-and-butter skill alongside Frags. Streak can barely be used twice (mobility used to be Sorcs main defense, shields were more secondary back in the day) now and Frags is one of the biggest examples of what I'm talking about

Frags used to be the defining skill for Sorcs. It is what you based your entire playstyle around. The high-burst damage, the stun, the proc-fishing.

Now it just kinda feels like an after thought that doesn't really do a whole lot of damage, can't be used to stun, and is just not terribly appealing.

The Rune Cage nerf is a big deal to Sorcs because it highlights an underlying issue. Sorcs did not like Rune Cage being nerfed because they HAD to use it. It may have been a crutch but it was a necessary crutch. This is due to the things Sorc has lost over the years and has gone from something fun and dynamic to a one-trick pony with an easily-countered combo.

Hoked_on_ponix · August 2018

Magic sorc has consistently been the best or one of the DPS classes patch after patch both PVE and PVP. Not sure what game you have been playing.

GawdSB · August 2018

"Oh, I can't kill every player in a couple of seconds any more? Obviously the whole class needs to be redone to appease me."

Valrien · August 2018

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

Magic sorc has consistently been the best or one of the DPS classes patch after patch both PVE and PVP. Not sure what game you have been playing.

There have been multiple times where this is simply not true.

But you guys have really been missing the point of this thread.

You think this is me asking for a buff. I have stated multiple times this is not about balance. This is about the way the class feels to run and play.

And it does not feel good.

Judas Helviaryn · August 2018

Completely gut a staple class and push out a good number of the playerbase?

Sure, if you want to put the first nail in the coffin.

AuraNebula · August 2018

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

Magic sorc has consistently been the best or one of the DPS classes patch after patch both PVE and PVP. Not sure what game you have been playing.

Actually mag NB are the top mag class in pve atm.
With the new patch Magplars are second.
Then sorcs.
Not sure what game you're playing either.

Valrien · August 2018

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Completely gut a staple class and push out a good number of the playerbase?

Sure, if you want to put the first nail in the coffin.

The point is to reverse the gutting that has been taking place over the course of years.

The gutting is already in process. The goal is to stop it by rebuilding the class and giving it it's original feel.

Royaji · August 2018

Sometimes I wish ZOS would just cut the losses and do a sweeping major all-class rebalance. DKs are complaining that they are the shell of their former selves. Sorcs are complaining about the same. Templars are... you know already. And wardens complain that they never even had an identity in the first place.

The original design from 2014 is long gone. Just remake everything the way new team wants it and stop with slow painful nerfs...

ItsNebula · August 2018

Lasinagol wrote: »

And make everyone re learn their muscle memory...possibly even hafta regear and farm for that too? No, thankyou....while it is a good idea, well founded...I persobally think adding a summon specific class would be better...or spellcrafting. Wonder how imbalanced that is and why we ain't got that yet...

ESO is so damn easy. No such thing as having to learn a class lmao. The ONLY class that I would say takes learning is the StamPlar.

Other classes? As long as you’re the average PvPer (you know the basics and got common pvp sense) you can do fine on them.

Iki · August 2018

Just get rid of stacking cost-increase in bolt escape already. That would instantly make sorc so much more fun class to play. After Morrowinds sustain-nerfs and now everyone being able to reach speed-cap with swift-jewelry there really isn`t good reasons why to still have that darn cost-increase crippling sorcs mobility. Bolt escape already have far more and better counters than certain other strong defencive-abilities in the game...

If this dream of mine would some day come true, I do admit that then base-cost of bolt escape should get reasonable increase. Then increase streaks stuns duration to 2-3 sec and sorcs cc-toolkit would also be good enough.

webrgesner · August 2018

NOO GTFO sorcs just need a bit tweaking no need to restart sorcs.....

NyassaV · August 2018

Honestly if anything Nightblade needs to be scrapped. Nightblades have the least synergy with their own class kit yet some how are the most powerful.

I went on a Mag sorc for the first time since Morrowind and had 0 problems putting it together and no issues setting the bars up in a way thats comfortable. Magic Nightblade is 100% not this as I've been playing it in PvP for over a year and I can't settle on a bar set up where I am not tilted by something.

As for stam sorc... Well it's not even a "class" so I'll refrain from commenting

Valrien · August 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Honestly if anything Nightblade needs to be scrapped. Nightblades have the least synergy with their own class kit yet some how are the most powerful.

I went on a Mag sorc for the first time since Morrowind and had 0 problems putting it together and no issues setting the bars up in a way thats comfortable. Magic Nightblade is 100% not this as I've been playing it in PvP for over a year and I can't settle on a bar set up where I am not tilted by something.

As for stam sorc... Well it's not even a "class" so I'll refrain from commenting

I hope you're talking about Stamblade because Magblade has amazing synergy with its passives.

Katahdin · August 2018

Ive been playing a Msorc in PvP the last few weeks.
Plenty of damage, sustain, mitigation and movement (I get 3-4 streaks at least before Im low on magicka)
Easy mode compared to some other classes and with a much lower learning curve
The rune cage, frags nerf put them in line where where they should be instead of rediculously OP
They are fine

smacx250 · August 2018

Thank ZOS this will never happen! I've played sorc almost exclusively since PC launch. No, I don't want something totally different - just some stuff fixed would do. If you don't like sorc any more, just suck it up and grind out to 50 on some other class, or give feedback for a new class.

templesus · August 2018

Can we just please give sorc frag cc back? Because i swear if I see one more crybaby sorc thread full of tears I’m going to rip my eyes out.

Mr_Walker · August 2018

Please nerf everything that kills me, thanks zos.

Sylvermynx · August 2018

With my lag (999+ ALL the time) I have two classes that work reliably: warden and sorc. In other words, pet classes. Please don't change them, because they're the only classes in this game where I don't wind up dead all the time due to lag.

Priyasekarssk · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Just scrap Sorc as a whole entirely as it is and give them a fresh start. Rework it from the ground up and make it feel like it's actually got it's own playstyle again because as things are...they're frankly much worse off than they were at launch.

It feels like a shell of it's former self where playstyle is concerned. Regardless of whether people feel they are OP or not...Sorcerer just isn't as fun as it used to be.

In terms of balance, it has it's place as a noob killer...the sheer amount of burst it does floors new players and makes them call for nerfs before they fully understand why they're dying.

But I don't want to be a noob killer. I want to be able to kill all types of players in a fair fight that is not one-sided (except Nightblades. They haven't seen a "fair" fight in years and they probably won't ever...but I digress) and be killed by them too.

I guess what I'm saying is this:

Sorc goes through periods of being OP, underpowered, and "just right." But when ZOS hits that "just right" they tend to get nerfed because "just right" for the class FEELS OP when it truly isn't. At this point I'd love for Sorc to just be rebuilt, and give every Sorc out there a class change token that they can choose to use or not use due to the massive rework of their skills.

I don't truly care if Sorc is balanced. It has already been shown that they're either going to be OP or useless and rarely in between...so I just want them to feel good to play again like they did in their hayday.

Already ZOs is working on how to nerf sorc in next patch asking ideas to class representatives. They wont give *** to magic sorc. All Mag sorcs ask for class change token. Thats the only way to get out of this mess or abandon ESO. Any suggestion is waste of time. ESO exists only to nerf sorc. Ask any noob here to win dueling tournament with magic sorc , who is telling sorc is overpowered. These noob liars are nothing when compared to sypher or kodi standards.
Even sypher or kodi cannot do it , when sorc at its prime.
Bunch of noob liars who shamelessly lie sorc is overpowered now . These noobs cannot kill without a cheese and never look for competitive game play.
All bunch of noob liars , win a dueling tournament with magic sorc and come to comment in forums. No one wants your pathetic noob lies.

Main problem is ZOs themselves doesn't consider class balance seriously. If they did, they would conduct dueling tournaments and balance classes based on real factual data. All they did was introducing more cheese into the game , by biased opinions.

Jules · August 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

Honestly if anything Nightblade needs to be scrapped. Nightblades have the least synergy with their own class kit yet some how are the most powerful.

I went on a Mag sorc for the first time since Morrowind and had 0 problems putting it together and no issues setting the bars up in a way thats comfortable. Magic Nightblade is 100% not this as I've been playing it in PvP for over a year and I can't settle on a bar set up where I am not tilted by something.

As for stam sorc... Well it's not even a "class" so I'll refrain from commenting

NB has the most comprehensive and complete passives in the game. Especially if you compare how stacked they are with stats and major/minor buffs. NB literally has an entire willow’s path set in their passives for doing/slotting nothing. Also the only class to not have to waste a slot on access to major resolve and major ward. So the reason you can’t settle on a bar set up is not a lack of NB power or a lack of synergy amongst the class’s passives. You can’t settle on a bar set up because YOU HAVE SO MANY GOOD SKILLS. Pretty good problem to have if you ask literally any other class.

Houshiki · August 2018

No, just no. After nerfs, then an ability gutting, now asking for an entire class to just be scrapped? Just no. You're pretty much asking every sorc main to just give up or reroll.

True, sorcs have been nerfed time and time again, yet we have adapted every time. And true rune cage was overperforming and needed to be nerfed, but outright gutting it was not the right course of action. Regardless, sorcs will adapt, and everyone else will cry "OP" and "nerf" about something else about sorcs, just as they always do.

However, it's not the fault of the class that it feels to be losing its class identity, the same can be said about all the other classes. The fault lies with the cp power creep, the constant nerfing in the name of rebalancing, and the obvious push towards class homogenization where every class can perform every role in the exact same way. Regardless, scrapping a class in order to be rebuilt from the ground up, to be re-imagined, etc. is not the same as trying to revitalize class. No, it is essentially killing off the class, and cannibalizing what's left.

That said, just no to you "kill sorcs thread".

Malacthulhu · August 2018

Or just add another class if they are gonna go to that effort and bc essentially that is what you are talking about. You are also basically killing the class it is now just for the sake of pvp content, hasn't the pve community suffered enough of this sillydillness? The trend needs to stop. How about we start nightblade from scratch bc I don't like how it handles in delves. A class not preforming how you want in the content you play does not merit in my opinion a complete rework. I get it rune cage was nerfed boohoo creating a new class won't bring it back lol.

idk · August 2018

If you have grown bored with the Sorcs then move to a different class. Just because you are challenged killing anything but noobs when on a sorc is not a reason to call for a rework. There are plenty of players who do well on their sorc when it comes to going up against experienced players.

Valrien · August 2018

Malacthulhu wrote: »

Or just add another class if they are gonna go to that effort and bc essentially that is what you are talking about. You are also basically killing the class it is now just for the sake of pvp content, hasn't the pve community suffered enough of this sillydillness? The trend needs to stop. How about we start nightblade from scratch bc I don't like how it handles in delves. A class not preforming how you want in the content you play does not merit in my opinion a complete rework. I get it rune cage was nerfed boohoo creating a new class won't bring it back lol.

It's not fun in PvE anymore though either. It has a 4-skill rotation.