Anyone playing 2H templar here?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

erlewine · August 2018

well, it is better dps to use blazing spear than to not use it - but not over caltrops. I have no idea why that person is using that setup. They should be using Blazing spear over Sun shield.

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Masel · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

@Masel92 thank for the input. I did not know jabs proced the ax bleed. Will keep that in mind. These are pretty small differences. To small in my mind to be calling any of them "trash".

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Is this a recent change? Like a year ago was the last time I tested jabs didnt proc it. As it is not a weapon ability it shouldnt be proccing bleed, so if it does its definitely a bug.

Masel · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Is this a recent change? Like a year ago was the last time I tested jabs didnt proc it. As it is not a weapon ability it shouldnt be proccing bleed, so if it does its definitely a bug.

I was sure it did,weird.the tooltip doesn't say anything about a weapon ability requirement...

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Is this a recent change? Like a year ago was the last time I tested jabs didnt proc it. As it is not a weapon ability it shouldnt be proccing bleed, so if it does its definitely a bug.

I was sure it did,weird.the tooltip doesn't say anything about a weapon ability requirement...

I guess it just says melee, which would make sense, since jabs is melee...I want to test how much jabs proc it now.

Masel · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Is this a recent change? Like a year ago was the last time I tested jabs didnt proc it. As it is not a weapon ability it shouldnt be proccing bleed, so if it does its definitely a bug.

I was sure it did,weird.the tooltip doesn't say anything about a weapon ability requirement...

I guess it just says melee, which would make sense, since jabs is melee...I want to test how much jabs proc it now.

Please tell me what you find. I can't test right now

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Is this a recent change? Like a year ago was the last time I tested jabs didnt proc it. As it is not a weapon ability it shouldnt be proccing bleed, so if it does its definitely a bug.

I was sure it did,weird.the tooltip doesn't say anything about a weapon ability requirement...

I guess it just says melee, which would make sense, since jabs is melee...I want to test how much jabs proc it now.

Please tell me what you find. I can't test right now

Nope...jabs does not proc bleed. jabbed for 45 seconds not a single bleed proc

Masel · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Is this a recent change? Like a year ago was the last time I tested jabs didnt proc it. As it is not a weapon ability it shouldnt be proccing bleed, so if it does its definitely a bug.

I was sure it did,weird.the tooltip doesn't say anything about a weapon ability requirement...

I guess it just says melee, which would make sense, since jabs is melee...I want to test how much jabs proc it now.

Please tell me what you find. I can't test right now

Nope...jabs does not proc bleed. jabbed for 45 seconds not a single bleed proc

Rekt, I guess I'll have to go for a maul then

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Is this a recent change? Like a year ago was the last time I tested jabs didnt proc it. As it is not a weapon ability it shouldnt be proccing bleed, so if it does its definitely a bug.

I was sure it did,weird.the tooltip doesn't say anything about a weapon ability requirement...

I guess it just says melee, which would make sense, since jabs is melee...I want to test how much jabs proc it now.

Please tell me what you find. I can't test right now

Nope...jabs does not proc bleed. jabbed for 45 seconds not a single bleed proc

Rekt, I guess I'll have to go for a maul then

In raid its absolutely useless tho

Swen_von_Walhallion · August 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

You get jewelry and a two hander and then transmute the jewelry to Stam/infused/bloodthirsty. Eazy. Till you get the stones to to that, get some Lava Foot Soup-And-Saltrice food.

well ravager is beast on templars, bc it can proc on bitting jabs and burning light pasive. and its easy get around 70-80% uptime of this buff. And thx this healt bonus on them you an used stamina regen drinks as camoran throne or arthaneum takaway and have nearly no problme with stamina sustain.

Masel · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Is this a recent change? Like a year ago was the last time I tested jabs didnt proc it. As it is not a weapon ability it shouldnt be proccing bleed, so if it does its definitely a bug.

I was sure it did,weird.the tooltip doesn't say anything about a weapon ability requirement...

I guess it just says melee, which would make sense, since jabs is melee...I want to test how much jabs proc it now.

Please tell me what you find. I can't test right now

Nope...jabs does not proc bleed. jabbed for 45 seconds not a single bleed proc

Rekt, I guess I'll have to go for a maul then

In raid its absolutely useless tho

I'm talking BGs

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.

I totally understand that but my bars are full, see here-.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I am cheap and play with random healers too much not to have the self heals of rally, he has vigor anyways. And why no repentance either. Even on the back bar, it is better then vigor ir sun shield.

But that is not why I asked @hedna123b14_ESO about shards, he is using shards on the same bar as jabs, he has sun shield on his back bar for the aedric spear passives there, so. Maybe he tested it and found that he get more DPS out of shards+ the extra burning light procs then Caltrops. No idea.

Caltrops is on my back bar, so not sure what you mean. As far as shards you want it on your front bar to minimize the time you spend on the back bar. As far as executioner goes, I didnt want to put it on my bar because I wanted to keep the test as accurate as possible, meaning I wanted the damage to be steady, hence why the gear I wore was all infused.

Okay, yeah, you do have caltrops in slot 5. I always have it in slot 2. My bad. How does Infused gear lead to a more accurate result? Wouldn't you want it to be as close to what you actually use anyways? So divines with lover?

Infused for jewelry not the armor....Also i just spent 30 minutes parsing WITH executioner and I can never get it to be a DPS gain over not running it...Issue with executioner is having 4 active skills on your back bar...between that and the fact that jabs+BL procs are pretty strong as is, I didnt find the skill worth it to slot. But again I dont 2H for PvE, if you can show me a video of you doing executioner on the dummy and getting 42k+ dps with it Id love to see that, because whenever I tried to do it, I couldnt...

okay, having an opportunity to watch most of, if not all of the relevant parts of your videos, you do know that the lover is not a debuff right? it is a self buff, you do not apply TO a mob, you always have it and is calculated AFTER the 20% from a mace, so is champion points piercing, the fact you have them has no bearing on the test, the only debuff you were suing was power of the light, which is 1320. that means 18,200-100-1320 = 16780 and 16780 *.2 is 3356, that is the number that Combat metrics ought to have been kicking out. not 2239. just for the record too, your parse with a maul was 2% higher then a the swords, which is right in line with the amount that 3356 armor reduction would give you, 6.712%, not 2239, 4.478%. something is screwy with combat metrix.

then we get into the debate. i see this as a win for mauls, for most people. you say that the axe and maul are on "par" single target, and clearly they are, but as soon as you add more then one target, maul are clearly the winner. bleeds also bypass armor all together, so the pen debuffs have no impact on them. all other debuffs, minor vulnerability is the main one, will increase the damage from the bleed but will make the swords 5% matter even less.

there is more but i dont have the time to go into it, paging @Masel92 again to bring more insight to the conversation.

If you watched the video I type up my thoughts at the very end. As I said before I wouldnt use swords. i WOULD use an axe over a mace any day. I DO NOT think that maces and axe are on par at all. I think axe is much superior to a mace in a good group as is stated in my original comment. Seeing as in the video with no debuffs maces are showing their highest damage buff and athe parse with an axe was within 200 dps of that, goes to show that in an actual raid where penetration is high (unless you have a *** group) mace will add nearly nothing to the fight, while the damage from an axe will be amplified. Not sure how you could argue with that. As far as multiple targets go, I do use 2h in PvE fairly regularly, but only on trash where it shines. You can literally stand in negates and spam brawler and not worry. That being said axe on trash is amazing, I encourage you to test it. Not sure why you think adding more targets would change anything much since a good tank debuffs each target with major fracture and crusher and the only debuf youre missing is potl. Even IF the tank only applies fracture and Alkosh to the targets that already puts the penetration from maces at a laughable amount....

Let's not have a nitpicky discussion again... Use whatever you like, the weapons are very close to each other. If you prefer an axe, go for it, if you prefer more penetration and guaranteed upfront burst, go for a maul. With a mace you can easily go for the warrior mundus and reach pen cap, which is also very nice to have. There's no clear winner there, it's all situational.

On stamplar axes can have an advantage though, since jabs can also proc the bleed on full aoe on every tick. Especially advantageous in pvp...

Is this a recent change? Like a year ago was the last time I tested jabs didnt proc it. As it is not a weapon ability it shouldnt be proccing bleed, so if it does its definitely a bug.

I was sure it did,weird.the tooltip doesn't say anything about a weapon ability requirement...

I guess it just says melee, which would make sense, since jabs is melee...I want to test how much jabs proc it now.

Please tell me what you find. I can't test right now

Nope...jabs does not proc bleed. jabbed for 45 seconds not a single bleed proc

Rekt, I guess I'll have to go for a maul then

In raid its absolutely useless tho

I'm talking BGs

Ahh ok. I about as decent in PvP as a bear trying to rollerskate.

rumple9 · August 2018

New changes to cyrodiils ward set is looking good for stamplar

Minno · August 2018

rumple9 wrote: »

New changes to cyrodiils ward set is looking good for stamplar

Stamina recovery on that set looks good. The major defile as well.

Night mother's gaze is another set stamplar can make use of since the weapon crit helps boost your healing and synergizes well with medium armor.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

@Masel92 @hadoasb16_ESO so combat metrix reporting on the amount that mauls penetrate is bugged, it shows 20% of YOUR own physical resistance. see this post-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5393129/#Comment_5393129

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Masel92 @hadoasb16_ESO so combat metrix reporting on the amount that mauls penetrate is bugged, it shows 20% of YOUR own physical resistance. see this post-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5393129/#Comment_5393129

If you compare the max damagdamage between different skills on the cmx report you'll see that it's around 4.58% or penetration of around 2292, which is very close to 12441-10202 = 2239 that is displayed in cmx

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

@Masel92 @hadoasb16_ESO so combat metrix reporting on the amount that mauls pentrate is bugged, it show 20% of YOUR physical resistance. s

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5393129/#Comment_5393129

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Masel92 @hadoasb16_ESO so combat metrix reporting on the amount that mauls penetrate is bugged, it shows 20% of YOUR own physical resistance. see this post-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5393129/#Comment_5393129

If you compare the max damagdamage between different skills on the cmx report you'll see that it's around 4.58% or penetration of around 2292, which is very close to 12441-10202 = 2239 that is displayed in cmx

did you even read the link? it is from the author of the add on, he says it himself.

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Masel92 @hadoasb16_ESO so combat metrix reporting on the amount that mauls pentrate is bugged, it show 20% of YOUR physical resistance. s

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5393129/#Comment_5393129

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Masel92 @hadoasb16_ESO so combat metrix reporting on the amount that mauls penetrate is bugged, it shows 20% of YOUR own physical resistance. see this post-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5393129/#Comment_5393129

If you compare the max damagdamage between different skills on the cmx report you'll see that it's around 4.58% or penetration of around 2292, which is very close to 12441-10202 = 2239 that is displayed in cmx

did you even read the link? it is from the author of the add on, he says it himself.

....did you read what I wrote? I didnt say that the pen value displayed by cmx is correct. I said that if you look at the max damage values on my parse the damage increase is roughly equal to 2292, still way under the 3k+ you say Mauls should give and nearly equal to what cmx is displaying. My point is that with nearly no debuffs on target Maul ONLY gave 2.29k pen....