Anyone playing 2H templar here?

Octopuss · July 2018

I am refreshing my templar after not giving his gear many thoughts for the past several months.
I'm playing fairly casually, mostly solo with an occasional vet dungeon or normal trial (that I do really rarely). I don't PvP.

He's got a mixture of Hunding's Rage and Spriggans sets. I'm generally fine with that, but at the same time, I have no idea if there are any newer, relatively easily obtainable sets that would give me a bit of a boost. So... any tips?
I also noticed he has one set piece too many, so I can fit a monster set in. That's a mystery though. What could I get?

I also decided to take a look at the skills, specifically the profile I use for grouping purposes.
I've got Jabs, Power of the light, Executioner, free slot, Rally (I use that because I don't use potions - I mean those potions), and Dawnbreaker on bar 1, and Endless hail, Poison injection, Rearming trap, free slot, Repentance, and Crescent sweep on bar 2.
Not sure what to fill the empty slot on bar1 with. I might force myself into some Cyrodiil grind and get Caltrops on bar2.
I can't quite figure any somewhat optimal skill setup.
Any opinions on that?

Thanks.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2018

I run a two-hander temp in pve, You need to use brawler. And your back bar needs clatrops. You can't really do good DPS without those 2 skills. Caltrops is always my number 2 DPS skill, after hail, in single target or AOE.

I run a two-hander on my stamplar after finding dual wield boring on her, here is my set up.

Khajit, 5 Leviathan, 5 Veiled heritance, two handed maul for four man stuff and a greatsword for trials, 2 sellitrix/kraghs/selenes. Vma bow. Food is dubious.

Leviathan, http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Leviathan, is from crypt of hearts, always people farming that dungeon and veiled heritance,. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Armor_of_the_Veiled_Heritance , is an overland set from Auridon that is dirt cheap because people don't realize that it is equal to advancing yokuda.

This setup gets me 16k health, 33k Stam, 1.3k regen, 68% crit. 4.5k weapon damage.

Front bar is infused poison enchant Veiled heritance maul/sword.

Rearming trap, rally, executioner, brawler, jabs, ulti flawless dawnbreaker

Back bar is a sharpened vma bow with a disease enchant.

Repentance, clatrops, power of the light, endless hail, poison injection, ulti crescent sweep

I use sellitrix because in four man stuff, that stun is so useful because most of the tanks in the group finder have no idea what crowd control is. Selenes is a strick DPS increase in single target situations, so you probably want to use that. Kraghs is great too because you need to have the group of mobs in front of you for jabs.

I use crescent sweep for the passives from the adric spear line for that bar, mostly the extra 10% crit hit damage.

I use executioner instead of reverse slice on my stamplar because jabs is aoe, in AOE situations, keep hail and caltrops down, use brawler and then use jabs till hail is up and repeat. Repentance when you need Stam.

Really though, you need a good rotation for good DPS, regardless of the kind of weapon you are using. My rotation skills are not that good and I am just bad at light attack weaving so my DPS tops out at 25k self buffed and 35k in a good group. This is still better then 80% of the DPS I have been put with in the group finder.

My rotation is prebuff with rally then hail, caltrops, injection, PotL, bar swap, trap, brawler, jabs till hail is almost done, repeat. When the mob is around 25% use executioner instead if jabs, keeping up your dots, at 10% just keep up poison injection and use executioner.

I really find two-hander more enjoyable to play, probably because I love using an execute and brawler.

Gargath · July 2018

In my opinion, if pve:
- Power of the light isn't good enough to waste a skill slot for it (maybe just for the bosses on dungeons).
- I'd change Rearming Trap for Lightweight Beast Trap, use it from distance than charge with 2H for immobilized mob.
- Crescent sweep isn't better than Dawnbreaker, so I'd pick on both bars Flawless Dawnbreaker for extra 5% weap.dmg on both 2H and bow.
- I'd change Spriggans for Sword-Singer Set, for up to 400 weap.dmg. for your Two Handed abilities.
- Caltrops is indeed very effective and powerful aoe skill for stamina, but I use it mainly as opening skill on stamblade with DW and in pair with Shrouded Daggers.
- if you have empty slots, you can slot eg. Rune Focus - Channeled Focus morph (low magicka cost but gives more resistance), or Expert Hunter for constant Major Savagery (if the Biting Jabs aren't so often) or Blinding Javelin if things get ugly.

-

Almost forgot about Vigor - Resolving Vigor, you need to have it just like the Caltrops, so yes, you have to go fight in Cyrodiil. If you don't like pvp because you are bad in melee (like I am), respec your templar to magicka healer and heal your zerg for maximum AP increase untill you get what you need.

Octopuss · July 2018

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
I do use Brawler, but only for solo where I find that damage shield pretty useful.

I was previously looking at Velidreth (well, that's what Alcast puts into his builds), but I don't like the disease damage on it.
I might just get both Selene and Kragh for different situations.

Octopuss · July 2018

Gargath wrote: »

In my opinion, if pve:
- Power of the light isn't good enough to waste a skill slot for it (maybe just for the bosses on dungeons).
- I'd change Rearming Trap for Lightweight Beast Trap, use it from distance than charge with 2H for immobilized mob.
- Crescent sweep isn't better than Dawnbreaker, so I'd pick on both bars Flawless Dawnbreaker for extra 5% weap.dmg on both 2H and bow.
- I'd change Spriggans for Sword-Singer Set, for up to 400 weap.dmg. for your Two Handed abilities.
- Caltrops is indeed very effective and powerful aoe skill for stamina, but I use it mainly as opening skill on stamblade with DW and in pair with Shrouded Daggers.
- if you have empty slots, you can slot eg. Rune Focus - Channeled Focus morph (low magicka cost but gives more resistance), or Expert Hunter for constant Major Savagery (if the Biting Jabs aren't so often) or Blinding Javelin if things get ugly.

- Almost forgot about Vigor - Resolving Vigor, you need to have it just like the Caltrops, so yes, you have to go fight in Cyrodiil. If you don't like pvp because you are bad in melee (like I am), respec your templar to magicka healer and heal your zerg for maximum AP increase untill you get what you need.

Crescent sweek needs a LOT less ultimate though. That's my main reasoning to slot it.
Vigor I only use when soloing.
Sword singer set wouldn't help me much, because most of my damage comes from jabs and bow skills - I think.
PoTL I'll probably only keep for groups. I mean I need the slot for Caltrops anyway

And you might have a point about the Beast trap. I am not even sure mine ever gets triggers. I keep forgetting it's placed underneath my char.

Wraithlyn · July 2018

I've been running 2H on my Templar and I can pull some decent numbers with such. (Around 32k self-buffed last time I tried, about 40k+ buffed, give or take. Nothing groundbreaking like you can see from people in end-game trial guilds, but I think it is enough to be pulling my fair share on fights.

As for sets, there are quite a few sets that you can obtain. Automaton and leviathan are rather simple sets to gain from non-DLC dungeons.
Thanks to ZoS during Summerset, 2H items now count as 2 pieces, which enables you to wear a 5/5/2 setup like a DW/Bow setup. For monster sets, Stormfist is rather simple to obtain and does have some potent damage, though Velidreth and Selene are also good as well, but the choice is all up to you as it is your character and build.

I do find the weapon power pots (Brutality, Savagery and restore stamina) to be very useful, but they are quite expensive. The Medicinal use passive in alchemy can make the uptime of these buffs last 100% of the time if you pop them off cooldown (generally, you would since the stam return is very handy). You don't have to get those pots if you don't want them, but I can't recommend the medicinal use passive enough.

As for my bar setup, it goes as follows:

Bar 1: Brawler, Biting Jabs, Power of the Light, Reverse Slice, Repentance, Flawless Dawnbreaker
Bar 2: Re-arming Trap, Endless Hail, Razor Caltrops, Poison Injection, Resolving Vigor, Ballista

Rotation is pretty bog-standard for many builds, but goes as follows:

Re-arming trap > Light attack > Endless Hail > Light attack > Razor Caltrops > Light attack > Poison injection > Light attack > Weapon Swap > Brawler > Light attack > Power of the Light > Light attack > Biting Jabs > Light attack > Biting Jabs > Light attack > Biting Jabs > Weapon swap. If you are in need of resources, replace one Light attack and maybe a jabs cast with a heavy attack.

At 25%, I replace Reverse Slash with Jabs in my rotation.

Depending if you have a good group or a healer you can trust to heal you, you can swap vigor out for Shards for the extra crit damage and group support. Crescent Sweep is decent as it is cheap and gives access to the aedric spear passives, though I do prefer Ballista for the sheer amount of damage it provides. Since you don't have vigor yet and are running Rally, I would move Repentance to the backbar.
If you want to, you can morph Reverse Slash to Executioner for a little more single target execute, but I do prefer the extra damage Reverse Slice has on AoE, personally.

I'm not sure what Mundus stone you are running as you didn't say, but it is dependant on reliability of your group.
Warrior is good for raw damage and effects healing, if you have a reliable group that can apply enough armour pen.
Lover is very potent if you run Relequen (From the Cloudrest trial) and/or have a group with some unreliable uptimes of penetration.

Hope this helps out.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
I do use Brawler, but only for solo where I find that damage shield pretty useful.

I was previously looking at Velidreth (well, that's what Alcast puts into his builds), but I don't like the disease damage on it.
I might just get both Selene and Kragh for different situations.

You use brawler for the dot, since it is the only one two-hander has. And I really do not like most of @Gargath has written there, so I wouldn't listen to him.

Octopuss · July 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

You use brawler for the dot, since it is the only one two-hander has. And I really do not like most of @Gargath has written there, so I wouldn't listen to him.

I always thought the dot was way too weak to be used in groups, where trash dies almost instantly anyway.

@Wraithlyn
OMG, Automaton! You are absolutely correct. Most of the dmg IS physical.
The question is, shall I replace Hunding or Spriggan? I'd say Spriggan. If I was to get Leviathan as well, I'd probably have a *** of a time finding exactly the type of weapon I'd want though.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

You use brawler for the dot, since it is the only one two-hander has. And I really do not like most of @Gargath has written there, so I wouldn't listen to him.

I always thought the dot was way too weak to be used in groups, where trash dies almost instantly anyway.

@Wraithlyn
OMG, Automaton! You are absolutely correct. Most of the dmg IS physical.
The question is, shall I replace Hunding or Spriggan? I'd say Spriggan. If I was to get Leviathan as well, I'd probably have a *** of a time finding exactly the type of weapon I'd want though.

you use the dot as part of a rotation. it is a dps loss to not use it.

and in trash packs, i explained the way to use at two hander in my long post up top, in case you missed it though here it is again, in AOE situations, keep hail and caltrops down, use brawler and then use jabs till hail is up and repeat. the dot tick enough to make a differance.

also, automaton does not carry over to the back bar like Veiled heritance does, and you are on your back bar for at least 4 seconds every 10, so you are losing out on 40%+ of the damage potential from automation, not to mention poison injection is not buffed by it, nor is power of the light, so choose carefully.

Octopuss · July 2018

Ok, point taken.

Veiled Heritance is heavy armour though. I don't wear that.
It's a nice bonus on it though.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

Ok, point taken.

Veiled Heritance is heavy armour though. I don't wear that.
It's a nice bonus on it though.

You get jewelry and a two hander and then transmute the jewelry to Stam/infused/bloodthirsty. Eazy. Till you get the stones to to that, get some Lava Foot Soup-And-Saltrice food.

Octopuss · August 2018

Any CP distribution tips for pvp? I have to make use of the festival.

Minno · August 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

Any CP distribution tips for pvp? I have to make use of the festival.

Red:
18-20% ironclad
10-8% Hardy/ele defender
15-18% thick skin
Maybe 1-3% quick recovery
Rest into resistant (around 40-50).

Blue:
Depends on your weapon and barsetup.
Use 20-23% of your main damage type (jabs = thaumaturge, 2h single target abilities = master of arms)
10% elf born
12-13% physical DMG
Rest into light attack/penetration

Green:
10-12% stamina recovery
Split rest into warlord, dodge roll, block
Dump any spare extra points to siphoner/Sprint reduction.

IZZEFlameLash · August 2018

Gargath wrote: »

In my opinion, if pve:
- Power of the light isn't good enough to waste a skill slot for it (maybe just for the bosses on dungeons).
- I'd change Rearming Trap for Lightweight Beast Trap, use it from distance than charge with 2H for immobilized mob.
- Crescent sweep isn't better than Dawnbreaker, so I'd pick on both bars Flawless Dawnbreaker for extra 5% weap.dmg on both 2H and bow.
- I'd change Spriggans for Sword-Singer Set, for up to 400 weap.dmg. for your Two Handed abilities.
- Caltrops is indeed very effective and powerful aoe skill for stamina, but I use it mainly as opening skill on stamblade with DW and in pair with Shrouded Daggers.
- if you have empty slots, you can slot eg. Rune Focus - Channeled Focus morph (low magicka cost but gives more resistance), or Expert Hunter for constant Major Savagery (if the Biting Jabs aren't so often) or Blinding Javelin if things get ugly.

- Almost forgot about Vigor - Resolving Vigor, you need to have it just like the Caltrops, so yes, you have to go fight in Cyrodiil. If you don't like pvp because you are bad in melee (like I am), respec your templar to magicka healer and heal your zerg for maximum AP increase untill you get what you need.

PotL is very useful in PvE. Not sure why you think it doesn't warrant a slot in general. Like tougher (relatively, Even though they die all the same) 1H/S mobs eat double damage from PotL exploding.

Now, Javelin doesn't warrant a slot in PvE. It is expensive and you really don't need single target CC in PvE because single target instances like bosses are immune anyways.

Octopuss · August 2018

What kind of basic armour could I get? I am not transmuting my pve gear to impen

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

What kind of basic armour could I get? I am not transmuting my pve gear to impen

Basic? Hundings and spriggans.

Octopuss · August 2018

What about those special pvp sets? I noticed one that adds 8% bow dmg vs players. Considering Poison Injection is the only attack I am able to land, this might be of some use.

Xvorg · August 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

What about those special pvp sets? I noticed one that adds 8% bow dmg vs players. Considering Poison Injection is the only attack I am able to land, this might be of some use.

Marksman is a good set but not only for the extra dmg on bow. It has some nice recovery stats and also some stam cost reduction. Yes, you can do extra dmg with bow skills but once you bar swap, the extra dmg is gone.

If you rely on poison injection and snipe, it's a great choice, otherwise, you'll never be wrong with hundin'gs

summitxho · August 2018

Just curious why vigor is being used over repentance? I am messing around with a tank templar with 2H on back bar for a bit extra damage and some self heals, perhaps I should be looking at vigor more? It would be for PVE

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

I am refreshing my templar after not giving his gear many thoughts for the past several months.
I'm playing fairly casually, mostly solo with an occasional vet dungeon or normal trial (that I do really rarely). I don't PvP.

He's got a mixture of Hunding's Rage and Spriggans sets. I'm generally fine with that, but at the same time, I have no idea if there are any newer, relatively easily obtainable sets that would give me a bit of a boost. So... any tips?
I also noticed he has one set piece too many, so I can fit a monster set in. That's a mystery though. What could I get?

I also decided to take a look at the skills, specifically the profile I use for grouping purposes.
I've got Jabs, Power of the light, Executioner, free slot, Rally (I use that because I don't use potions - I mean those potions), and Dawnbreaker on bar 1, and Endless hail, Poison injection, Rearming trap, free slot, Repentance, and Crescent sweep on bar 2.
Not sure what to fill the empty slot on bar1 with. I might force myself into some Cyrodiil grind and get Caltrops on bar2.
I can't quite figure any somewhat optimal skill setup.
Any opinions on that?

Thanks.

For PvE 2h is worse than dual wield but they are close...probably no more than 4k dps difference, so if you want to play it it can be decent.
I'd recommend the following rotation:
Pre rotation: Trap>Bar swap
1. Hail>LA>PI>LA>Caltrops>LA>Ballista>Bar Swap
2. LA>PotL>LA>Brawler>(LA>Jabs)x 3>LA>PotL
3. Hail>LA>PI>LA>Caltrops>Bar Swap
4. LA>Brawler>HA>LA>Trap>LA>Jabs>LA>Jabs>LA>Jabs>LA>PotL>Barswap
Below 20% replace (LA>Jabs) x 3 with LA>Executioner x 5

Octopuss · August 2018

What's a good trait on 2H sword? I have mine sharpened, but I have no idea what's good, considering the recent changes.

Skayaq · August 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

What's a good trait on 2H sword? I have mine sharpened, but I have no idea what's good, considering the recent changes.

If you are not reaching penetration cap in your normal group(s) then sharpened is a good choice, otherwise nirnhoned or infused.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

What's a good trait on 2H sword? I have mine sharpened, but I have no idea what's good, considering the recent changes.

Depends on the rest of your stats, though mauls are better then swords most of the time, you have to have something around 10k debuffs on the mob before swords 5% damage increase will give you more then maces 20% pen. This is practically never, since the removal of nmg and sunder.

On traits, I am leaning towards precise/sharpened front bar and infused back, since those are the only traits that buff enchantments as well as your skills.

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

In any decent trial group maces are utter trash, because their penetration is applied after the other debuffs

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

In any decent trial group maces are utter trash, because their penetration is applied after the other debuffs

debuffs like what? major and minor fracture or breach (5280 and 1320, respectively)? roar of alkosh (3010)? crusher weapon enchantment (which is amplifiable with torug's pact and infused and yields 1622, 2108 and 2741, respectively)? all these add up to 12,261, if you some how get alkosh AND TP on the boss at the same time. this is never going to happen, so the best you can get is 11718 debuffs, with just alkosh and non TP crusher, which is meta, which is going to leave you with 20% pen of 6482. in the absolute best case. 1296.4 pen is equal to 2.5% increase in damage. in the absolute worse, or optimistic, case. so best possiable increase in damge from a 2 hander mace is 7.2% increase in damge, with no debuffs, and 2.5% at worst.

then you have to remember that swords damage increase is additive with all other type of percentage increase, meaning that from the jump, they are doing less then advertised, so take a basic cp, like the one the holy alkast has on his site, with just the 12% from mighty, 22% from master at arms and that 5% from swords, you get 134% without swords and 139% with, so right off the bat, you are only getting 3.7% increase with using a sword, add in 8% from minor berserk, something surely every "decent trial group" will have up most of the time, it gets even worse, you see how this can lead to maces being better, most of the time. swords are at best 5% increase and at worse, around 2.5% as well.

and all this is a moo point anyways to a "decent trial group", they wouldnt let you use a two hander to begin with.

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

In any decent trial group maces are utter trash, because their penetration is applied after the other debuffs

debuffs like what? major and minor fracture or breach (5280 and 1320, respectively)? roar of alkosh (3010)? crusher weapon enchantment (which is amplifiable with torug's pact and infused and yields 1622, 2108 and 2741, respectively)? all these add up to 12,261, if you some how get alkosh AND TP on the boss at the same time. this is never going to happen, so the best you can get is 11718 debuffs, with just alkosh and non TP crusher, which is meta, which is going to leave you with 20% pen of 6482. in the absolute best case. 1296.4 pen is equal to 2.5% increase in damage. in the absolute worse, or optimistic, case. so best possiable increase in damge from a 2 hander mace is 7.2% increase in damge, with no debuffs, and 2.5% at worst.

then you have to remember that swords damage increase is additive with all other type of percentage increase, meaning that from the jump, they are doing less then advertised, so take a basic cp, like the one the holy alkast has on his site, with just the 12% from mighty, 22% from master at arms and that 5% from swords, you get 134% without swords and 139% with, so right off the bat, you are only getting 3.7% increase with using a sword, add in 8% from minor berserk, something surely every "decent trial group" will have up most of the time, it gets even worse, you see how this can lead to maces being better, most of the time. swords are at best 5% increase and at worse, around 2.5% as well.

and all this is a moo point anyways to a "decent trial group", they wouldnt let you use a two hander to begin with.

....
1. As a stam user you are running lover, so between your cp and debuffs axes are trash.
2. Not sure why you mentioned swords...i didnt mention them in my comment...they are better than maces in a good group though.
3. None of this matters, because if you do run 2h I'd run axe.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

In any decent trial group maces are utter trash, because their penetration is applied after the other debuffs

debuffs like what? major and minor fracture or breach (5280 and 1320, respectively)? roar of alkosh (3010)? crusher weapon enchantment (which is amplifiable with torug's pact and infused and yields 1622, 2108 and 2741, respectively)? all these add up to 12,261, if you some how get alkosh AND TP on the boss at the same time. this is never going to happen, so the best you can get is 11718 debuffs, with just alkosh and non TP crusher, which is meta, which is going to leave you with 20% pen of 6482. in the absolute best case. 1296.4 pen is equal to 2.5% increase in damage. in the absolute worse, or optimistic, case. so best possiable increase in damge from a 2 hander mace is 7.2% increase in damge, with no debuffs, and 2.5% at worst.

then you have to remember that swords damage increase is additive with all other type of percentage increase, meaning that from the jump, they are doing less then advertised, so take a basic cp, like the one the holy alkast has on his site, with just the 12% from mighty, 22% from master at arms and that 5% from swords, you get 134% without swords and 139% with, so right off the bat, you are only getting 3.7% increase with using a sword, add in 8% from minor berserk, something surely every "decent trial group" will have up most of the time, it gets even worse, you see how this can lead to maces being better, most of the time. swords are at best 5% increase and at worse, around 2.5% as well.

and all this is a moo point anyways to a "decent trial group", they wouldnt let you use a two hander to begin with.

....
1. As a stam user you are running lover, so between your cp and debuffs axes are trash.
2. Not sure why you mentioned swords...i didnt mention them in my comment...they are better than maces in a good group though.
3. None of this matters, because if you do run 2h I'd run axe.

I am not going to respond in numbered format, that seems like you can't put paragraphs together in a coherent structure.

If you would read the post I was responding to, that person is using a sword, you said nothing about axes in your post that I quoted. So simply stated that maces were "trash". They are not. If you use a maul, you will get more DPS then a sword and more then an axe in AOE situations. I also showed you that you will have, in a best case real word scenario, 6482 armor left on a boss, after debuffs, this will get lowered a further 1296.4, leaving you will 5185 to self pen, now I am sure you know that the lower is only 4197 with full gold divines. That still leaves 1k pen on the table. Also axes are random, they could hypothetically not proc that much and you get very little from them.

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

In any decent trial group maces are utter trash, because their penetration is applied after the other debuffs

debuffs like what? major and minor fracture or breach (5280 and 1320, respectively)? roar of alkosh (3010)? crusher weapon enchantment (which is amplifiable with torug's pact and infused and yields 1622, 2108 and 2741, respectively)? all these add up to 12,261, if you some how get alkosh AND TP on the boss at the same time. this is never going to happen, so the best you can get is 11718 debuffs, with just alkosh and non TP crusher, which is meta, which is going to leave you with 20% pen of 6482. in the absolute best case. 1296.4 pen is equal to 2.5% increase in damage. in the absolute worse, or optimistic, case. so best possiable increase in damge from a 2 hander mace is 7.2% increase in damge, with no debuffs, and 2.5% at worst.

then you have to remember that swords damage increase is additive with all other type of percentage increase, meaning that from the jump, they are doing less then advertised, so take a basic cp, like the one the holy alkast has on his site, with just the 12% from mighty, 22% from master at arms and that 5% from swords, you get 134% without swords and 139% with, so right off the bat, you are only getting 3.7% increase with using a sword, add in 8% from minor berserk, something surely every "decent trial group" will have up most of the time, it gets even worse, you see how this can lead to maces being better, most of the time. swords are at best 5% increase and at worse, around 2.5% as well.

and all this is a moo point anyways to a "decent trial group", they wouldnt let you use a two hander to begin with.

....
1. As a stam user you are running lover, so between your cp and debuffs axes are trash.
2. Not sure why you mentioned swords...i didnt mention them in my comment...they are better than maces in a good group though.
3. None of this matters, because if you do run 2h I'd run axe.

I am not going to respond in numbered format, that seems like you can't put paragraphs together in a coherent structure.

If you would read the post I was responding to, that person is using a sword, you said nothing about axes in your post that I quoted. So simply stated that maces were "trash". They are not. If you use a maul, you will get more DPS then a sword and more then an axe in AOE situations. I also showed you that you will have, in a best case real word scenario, 6482 armor left on a boss, after debuffs, this will get lowered a further 1296.4, leaving you will 5185 to self pen, now I am sure you know that the lower is only 4197 with full gold divines. That still leaves 1k pen on the table. Also axes are random, they could hypothetically not proc that much and you get very little from them.

Yes...please teach me about pve...lol...in anticipation of your numbers response I did a simple test:) no debuffs on target what so ever (best scenario for a maul)

https://youtu.be/9I0XE-2gsi0

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

In any decent trial group maces are utter trash, because their penetration is applied after the other debuffs

debuffs like what? major and minor fracture or breach (5280 and 1320, respectively)? roar of alkosh (3010)? crusher weapon enchantment (which is amplifiable with torug's pact and infused and yields 1622, 2108 and 2741, respectively)? all these add up to 12,261, if you some how get alkosh AND TP on the boss at the same time. this is never going to happen, so the best you can get is 11718 debuffs, with just alkosh and non TP crusher, which is meta, which is going to leave you with 20% pen of 6482. in the absolute best case. 1296.4 pen is equal to 2.5% increase in damage. in the absolute worse, or optimistic, case. so best possiable increase in damge from a 2 hander mace is 7.2% increase in damge, with no debuffs, and 2.5% at worst.

then you have to remember that swords damage increase is additive with all other type of percentage increase, meaning that from the jump, they are doing less then advertised, so take a basic cp, like the one the holy alkast has on his site, with just the 12% from mighty, 22% from master at arms and that 5% from swords, you get 134% without swords and 139% with, so right off the bat, you are only getting 3.7% increase with using a sword, add in 8% from minor berserk, something surely every "decent trial group" will have up most of the time, it gets even worse, you see how this can lead to maces being better, most of the time. swords are at best 5% increase and at worse, around 2.5% as well.

and all this is a moo point anyways to a "decent trial group", they wouldnt let you use a two hander to begin with.

....
1. As a stam user you are running lover, so between your cp and debuffs axes are trash.
2. Not sure why you mentioned swords...i didnt mention them in my comment...they are better than maces in a good group though.
3. None of this matters, because if you do run 2h I'd run axe.

I am not going to respond in numbered format, that seems like you can't put paragraphs together in a coherent structure.

If you would read the post I was responding to, that person is using a sword, you said nothing about axes in your post that I quoted. So simply stated that maces were "trash". They are not. If you use a maul, you will get more DPS then a sword and more then an axe in AOE situations. I also showed you that you will have, in a best case real word scenario, 6482 armor left on a boss, after debuffs, this will get lowered a further 1296.4, leaving you will 5185 to self pen, now I am sure you know that the lower is only 4197 with full gold divines. That still leaves 1k pen on the table. Also axes are random, they could hypothetically not proc that much and you get very little from them.

Yes...please teach me about pve...lol...in anticipation of your numbers response I did a simple test:) no debuffs on target what so ever (best scenario for a maul)
https://youtu.be/9I0XE-2gsi0

Don't have time to watch it all, watched like 30 seconds to see your bars, but you are inaccurate though when you say "no debuffs", you are using power of the light, that gives minor fracture. I have to ask, why are you using shards? Why are you not using Caltrops? Why are you not using executioner? And these sorts of tests are easy to mess up when we are talking about single digit differences, which we are. One missed weave, one off timed dot, messes the whole thing up.

Edit: watched some more. Thank you for the video. I believe that Combat metrics is not calculating mauls correctly, at the end of your video, you type that it gives around 2.2k pen, mauls ought to be giving 3.3k more with just minor fracture.

Any input on what is going on here, @Masel92 ?

Octopuss · August 2018

I guess I'll keep my solo sword sharpened, and I transmuted the shiny VO one I've gotten yesterday to infused.

erlewine · August 2018

you should use blazing spear. although it's a magicka ability and doesn't do much damage on its own, it does two things: it activates the passive increasing critical damage by 10%, and it procs burning light, doing a large amount of damage.