Informing the silent majority of what the vocal minority pushes for.

MaxwellC · August 2018

As we all know the silent majority i.e players who do not participate on the forums, are generally confused as to what changes are coming into the game because they do not participate in the forum debate. Many games have placed some kind of informative NPC or location where players who do not wish to engage with the forum debate, can actively look at and understand upcoming changes. One game (Runescape) also has a polling box where the silent majority can participate in voting Yes or No for proposed changes and if a particular threshold is met, the changes go into the game.

What I want: I'd love for an NPC or an object that you could interact with, which will show upcoming changes, pts changes, and proposed changes.

The silent majority does not participate in the debates which narrowly skews changes in favor of which small group prefers what. In the future I'd love for a system similar if not the same as Runescapes, where all players can participate and vote for changes being proposed instead of a small group.

P.S If we get an NPC... I call dibs in being that NPC

pod88kk · August 2018

In this age of information ignorance is a choice

AlnilamE · August 2018

And what makes you think people would go to that NPC to see what changes are being proposed?

Personally, I come to the forums when I can't play. My game time is too precious for that.

MaxwellC · August 2018

The point is for players to know that there is something in-game that will help inform them of said changes. Not all players want to participate on the forums and others play more than one game instead of ESO, so the chances of them even wanting to participate is low.

Sylvermynx · August 2018

Well.... if the silent majority has issues with changes they don't know about because they haven't checked the PTS threads or read threads here....

I'd say they should drop around once in a while.

In the case of someone who's totally diametrically opposed to keeping up with changes in a forum atmosphere, eh, maybe they should play some other type of game. As for an NPC to interact with, I don't know anyone I've ever played an MMO with (a fair number of people) who would go there for info - all of us (several hundred guildies and friends from both WoW and RIFT) made sure to read the forums, participate on PTS, and do our best to keep up with stuff going on. And some game or other I played a while back had a "town crier" NPC - which was just more noise no one needed.

We even had (well, still have, though most of us have gone on to other things, other games) private forums for the games and our guildies and friends. We posted about things we thought might be important, things that might have got missed....

Now, I'm down to being a solo player, and happy with it. But I still read very widely on the forums. My own fault I forgot about the change to fall damage *sigh*.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · August 2018

Don't they usually have the articles describing the major changes linked in the launcher?

AlnilamE · August 2018

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Don't they usually have the articles describing the major changes linked in the launcher?

They do! I just checked. I think that also includes info on when stuff goes on the PTS.

Franieck · August 2018

pod88kk wrote: »

In this age of information ignorance is a choice

I beg to differ. In this age of information ignorance is rather easier to come by. There is such an overflow of information ( some helpful, many useless, countless positions, often backed up by sheer opinions). There are people claiming that skill x is the problem because of y and others claiming that class a is the problem because of skill z and on and on. There are posts about pvpers crying about imbalances and then there are posts about pvers crying about changes they feel was made due to the pvp crowd. In short, there is so much crap and people defending their own positions on the forums (hell, even I sometimes included) that it is really hard to get anything useful on what is subjected to change in-game (and more importantly how and why). So yeah... a dubbed down version of changes and big discussions going on around the game could be included in in-game NPCs as well for all I care.

brandonv516 · August 2018

Well we have this pretty pop up window every time we log in that shows us what's new in the crown store...

Mattock_Romulus · August 2018

How do you know you are in the majority if you never read any news?

Ragebull · August 2018

I come to the forums daily and I still don’t really know what ZOS is doin

TheYKcid · August 2018

Franieck wrote: »

pod88kk wrote: »

In this age of information ignorance is a choice

I beg to differ. In this age of information ignorance is rather easier to come by. There is such an overflow of information ( some helpful, many useless, countless positions, often backed up by sheer opinions). There are people claiming that skill x is the problem because of y and others claiming that class a is the problem because of skill z and on and on. There are posts about pvpers crying about imbalances and then there are posts about pvers crying about changes they feel was made due to the pvp crowd. In short, there is so much crap and people defending their own positions on the forums (hell, even I sometimes included) that it is really hard to get anything useful on what is subjected to change in-game (and more importantly how and why). So yeah... a dubbed down version of changes and big discussions going on around the game could be included in in-game NPCs as well for all I care.

On the contrary, the fact that so many differing opinions are laid-out on the table indicates to me that there is a healthy amount of discussion happening on the forums, between multiple interests groups, as opposed to a single, homogenous minority pushing an agenda as some forumers might imply.

In fact, the availability of so many differing views gives a reader the opportunity to cross-reference anything they read with multiple other sources. And once you have a working hypothesis for a certain mechanic, or opinion of a certain issue, then the onus is on the individual to test/experience it ingame if they want true certainty about it.

If you refuse to invest this basic level of effort into familiarising yourself with the game, then you shouldn't be partaking in discussions that require a certain understanding. Nor do you have any right to criticise those who do, since you can't provide anything better.

Ignorance is most definitely willful in this situation.

lagrue · August 2018

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Don't they usually have the articles describing the major changes linked in the launcher?

Not on console though because we don't have a "launcher", we have no way to see the patch notes when we get stuff unless we come onto the forums.

No in-game way to discern changes, which is a bummer.

I hope eventually ZOS does like DE with Warframe where they straight up have in-game news you can check.

Acrolas · August 2018

Patch notes ensure that a lot of information is given equal space. You can read them on your preferred device at your convenience. You can use key word search so you can prioritize the information you're interested in. You can have the notes read to you electronically.

That won't happen with a town crier NPC. It removes convenience. It removes prioritization. It would be more than a little bit weird seeing a character in the game talking about quantitative metrics that aren't discussed anywhere else in it, so it wears away at in-game consistency.

And you really can't blame the lack of an NPC for not understanding the terms, conditions, and licenses you agree to by using this product. People only read what they want to read and see what they want to see until it personally inconveniences them.

rynth · August 2018

it's called a website and forum where they can get all their information if they do not want to go there to get their information then they are just being lazy or don't care that much

DirkRavenclaw · August 2018

A lot of Guildies ask about changes, i say to them what i say to you, while downloading the patch you had enought time to read the patchnotes and if you care about chances read from time to time the first page of the forum, i do that now after closing game and tomm before opening game, its 2 minutes max

boombazookajd · August 2018

I usually make a point to bring up upcoming changes in guild chat during events.

esotoon · August 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

What I want: I'd love for an NPC or an object that you could interact with, which will show upcoming changes, pts changes, and proposed changes.

That would require ZOS to have the ability to give concise, accurate and informative descriptions of both the mechanics of the game and the changes taking place. Given that even after 4 years of the game being Live they are still struggling to give accurate tool tips, I think you might be expecting way too much from them. Next you’ll be asking for a decent UI!

(Love you ZOS, but you know it’s true.

)

Mr_Walker · August 2018

They need to come to the forums to receive info, because playing a game should be like having a job. Or doing homework at school.

It's their own fault they are ignorant. They are not taking the game seriously enough.

chesspilgrim · August 2018

i am almost always in favor of increasing the number of ways to access information. it is equally imperative that every person have at least one accessible way to voice his or her opinion [no disrespect intended to non-binary minded individuals]. ok, now that that is mostly clear...what you are proposing would be a straw poll, at best. it will be, by design, a way to poll the opinion of the uneducated with regards to most issues. so, those who write the questions will have a huge influence over the outcome. i don’t know if the results would be very valuable.

i am by far more in favor of increased education for the average user about how the game is actually designed to function. most will not come to these forums, but they should have more info about how the game can be played.

i am absolutely for an npc that does polling to find out what topics players want to learn more about, and then see new in-game methods to educate players about those topics. e.g. weaving in light attacks, how pvp and pve differences effect builds, or how to select a build and skills with consideration for all the status effects that come up in combat.

Aeslief · August 2018

Downloading the update gives you plenty of time to read the patch notes. If you can't be arsed to do that, you don't care to be informed.

max_only · August 2018

Mr_Walker wrote: »

They need to come to the forums to receive info, because playing a game should be like having a job. Or doing homework at school.

It's their own fault they are ignorant. They are not taking the game seriously enough.

I’m waiting in the corner to see who takes this comment seriously instead of sarcastically.

efster · August 2018

Sounds more like you're talking about an absent majority, not a silent one. A silent majority is one that knows what's going on but chooses not to say anything, for whatever reason.

Besides, there are plenty of people in just about every zone chat who will tell you all about upcoming changes if you express interest. No need for a special game system.

Rain_Greyraven · August 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

As we all know the silent majority i.e players who do not participate on the forums, are generally confused as to what changes are coming into the game because they do not participate in the forum debate. Many games have placed some kind of informative NPC or location where players who do not wish to engage with the forum debate, can actively look at and understand upcoming changes. One game (Runescape) also has a polling box where the silent majority can participate in voting Yes or No for proposed changes and if a particular threshold is met, the changes go into the game.

What I want: I'd love for an NPC or an object that you could interact with, which will show upcoming changes, pts changes, and proposed changes.

The silent majority does not participate in the debates which narrowly skews changes in favor of which small group prefers what. In the future I'd love for a system similar if not the same as Runescapes, where all players can participate and vote for changes being proposed instead of a small group.

P.S If we get an NPC... I call dibs in being that NPC

How about no dev listen to any crap that comes from the forums ever.

Just like they are already doing.

Sylvermynx · August 2018

chesspilgrim wrote: »

i am almost always in favor of increasing the number of ways to access information. it is equally imperative that every person have at least one accessible way to voice his or her opinion [no disrespect intended to non-binary minded individuals]. ok, now that that is mostly clear...what you are proposing would be a straw poll, at best. it will be, by design, a way to poll the opinion of the uneducated with regards to most issues. so, those who write the questions will have a huge influence over the outcome. i don’t know if the results would be very valuable.

i am by far more in favor of increased education for the average user about how the game is actually designed to function. most will not come to these forums, but they should have more info about how the game can be played.

i am absolutely for an npc that does polling to find out what topics players want to learn more about, and then see new in-game methods to educate players about those topics. e.g. weaving in light attacks, how pvp and pve differences effect builds, or how to select a build and skills with consideration for all the status effects that come up in combat.

Eh, that's the sort of thing that just totally blows into a black hole any immersion in the game though.... Now I'm aware that immersion seems to be a bad word these days - but many people do play a game like ESO for some sense of that immersive experience.

Implementing something in game that totally obviates the fourth wall isn't really a good idea. That's just IMO of course.

[Edited to make obvious to which particular post I was replying.]

DanteYoda · August 2018

pod88kk wrote: »

In this age of Fake news, ignorance is a choice

Fixed

ResTandRespeC · August 2018

Most of the people who remain ignorant of upcoming changes do because they don't care plain and simple. As for those giving feedback, why would i trust the opinions of people who Haven't done testing of these changes on the pts?

Anyways.... As we have seen, the devs don't really listen to those giving feedback anyways. Unless it has to with messed up quest text or the crown store not working.

code65536 · August 2018

If someone can't be bothered to open a webpage, what makes you think they'll bother with an in-game NPC, particularly since the format for presenting information is going to be much less efficient and very awkward if you shoehorn it into NPC dialog--imagine the horror of going through Patch Notes via dialog.

Other problems include: (1) unlike other games, all NPCs in this game are voiced, so adding/changing dialog for a NPC is no trivial matter and (2) breaking the 4th wall is a big no-no

This thread sounds like a (terrible) solution in search of a (non-existent) problem.

Feanor · August 2018

If you do not inform yourself about the changes, do they matter to you then?

I’d rather have a tutorial for new players m that explains base game mechanics other than blocking, sneaking and light and heavy attacking.

Tandor · August 2018

The last thing we need is developers wasting a lot of time writing, coding, and testing a NPC dialogue every time the game is patched, not least when there's a perfectly informative set of patch notes available and linked from the launcher.

It really is a choice for players not to bother reading up on the latest changes, and those who are happiest just playing the game and finding out for themselves those few things that may actually impact on them would be no more inclined to seek out a NPC for extensive interaction (you do realise how long that interaction would have to be, right?) than they are to read the patch notes.

As for whether or not the developers listen to feedback, I'd have thought that this week's patch was living proof that they do just that - there are a number of improvements that result directly from player feedback.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

So, you want an NPC that spits out the patch notes, when someone could just click on the link in the launcher and go to the actual patch notes...?