I must applaud the Dungeon Design Team

Dracane · August 2018

I was being very pessimistic for this Dungeon DLC. As all dungeons that came after Shadows of the Hist, were a burden and not fun at all (to me)
It seemed that all they do, is trying to find new lazy one shot mechanics and this reached its sad height with the Scalecaller dungeon. I wanted to take Mike Finnigan for a blind date and don't attend, after fighting that Giant Matriarch in Scalecaller.

(To this day, I have not understood how those stupid dirt fountains work)

However, traditionally we at least finish those once on veteran mode to get the achievements. I began with March of Sacrifises and wow, I am impressed.
Not only is it a beautiful dungeon, but it's encounters are..... fair ? Yes, fair, fun and intuitively. I instantly had a fair chance to see and react to the mechanics and I have never felt frustrated once and I believe, we never needed more than 3 tries for a boss. And oh lord Auri-El, that Indrik boss was beautifully designed. I wasn't even mad that he owned me with his Expecto Patronum a few times.

Wolfhunter gave me hope, that DLC dungeons can be fun and that this unfortunate trend of finding more lazy mechanics, has not continued this time around.
Even though this time, the dungeons don't offer any sets that I personally need, I will take them into my dungeon pledge routine and do them again. Normally, I just skip DLC dungeons.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

I ran through both on normal and while their interesting mechanics one instance on wolf-hunter stood out to me.

When I originally ran Moon Keep I got one-shotted at the archivist boss despite having 38K health, armorcap, 34% mitigation from CP and while blocking. On normal.

Dunno if that was just glitched to *** but one-shot mechanics on normal are not cooool.

Otherwise, their interesting mechanics, visually cool dungeons, but I've not got much more to say about them than that as I will absolutely never run these on vet period. Not really a fan of the ultra hard dungeons and never was.

Dracane · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I ran through both on normal and while their interesting mechanics one instance on wolf-hunter stood out to me.

When I originally ran Moon Keep I got one-shotted at the archivist boss despite having 38K health, armorcap, 34% mitigation from CP and while blocking. On normal.

Dunno if that was just glitched to *** but one-shot mechanics on normal are not cooool.

Otherwise, their interesting mechanics, visually cool dungeons, but I've not got much more to say about them than that as I will absolutely never run these on vet period. Not really a fan of the ultra hard dungeons and never was.

I play a damage shield tank and I am glad, that even health tanks suffer sometimes

I think, some attacks simply must or should be dodged, rather than blocked.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I ran through both on normal and while their interesting mechanics one instance on wolf-hunter stood out to me.

When I originally ran Moon Keep I got one-shotted at the archivist boss despite having 38K health, armorcap, 34% mitigation from CP and while blocking. On normal.

Dunno if that was just glitched to *** but one-shot mechanics on normal are not cooool.

Otherwise, their interesting mechanics, visually cool dungeons, but I've not got much more to say about them than that as I will absolutely never run these on vet period. Not really a fan of the ultra hard dungeons and never was.

I play a damage shield tank and I am glad, that even health tanks suffer sometimes
I think, some attacks simply must or should be dodged, rather than blocked.

Which is dumb, that there's no inclination of that. And even then, it shouldn't be a one-shot on normal.

There's parts of the game with mechanics where your supposed to dodge, selenes web and blessed crucible final bosses, but those are in nice, wide open area's. That fight is a really crampt space where you're basicly just supposed to burst down the wolves.

IDK, I just dont like it, think it's dumb.

Enemoriana · August 2018

Skeever.
They. Turned. Me. Into. Skeever.

I liked that dungeons

Though fighting big bad white wolf was pain for us even in normal and we didn't understood some places in second dungeon.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Enemoriana wrote: »

Skeever.
They. Turned. Me. Into. Skeever.

I liked that dungeons Though fighting big bad white wolf was pain for us even in normal and we didn't understood some places in second dungeon.

That almost killed us too, and my stats are not inconsiderable.

I'ma wait two weeks for them to take a look at the damage of some of these bosses and attacks and I'll give them a second try then.

TheUndeadAmulet · August 2018

Oneshot mechanics on normal (or even vet) should be cleary telegraphed and have obvious and easyish ways to avoid them. If you got oneshot on normal then you obviously did a stupid.

Dracane · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I ran through both on normal and while their interesting mechanics one instance on wolf-hunter stood out to me.

When I originally ran Moon Keep I got one-shotted at the archivist boss despite having 38K health, armorcap, 34% mitigation from CP and while blocking. On normal.

Dunno if that was just glitched to *** but one-shot mechanics on normal are not cooool.

Otherwise, their interesting mechanics, visually cool dungeons, but I've not got much more to say about them than that as I will absolutely never run these on vet period. Not really a fan of the ultra hard dungeons and never was.

I play a damage shield tank and I am glad, that even health tanks suffer sometimes
I think, some attacks simply must or should be dodged, rather than blocked.

Which is dumb, that there's no inclination of that. And even then, it shouldn't be a one-shot on normal.

There's parts of the game with mechanics where your supposed to dodge, selenes web and blessed crucible final bosses, but those are in nice, wide open area's. That fight is a really crampt space where you're basicly just supposed to burst down the wolves.

IDK, I just dont like it, think it's dumb.

As sad as it sounds, that is the very idea of dungeons. The first time, you wipe multiple times and learn what is lethal and how to react and eventually you know them. That's how it is every time and I suppose, in a way, that's the thrill of it.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Oneshot mechanics on normal (or even vet) should be cleary telegraphed and have obvious and easyish ways to avoid them. If you got oneshot on normal then you obviously did a stupid.

The windup to the oneshot looks like every other charged attack in the game.

There is no distinguishing between them. And it's an area attack. It really is just that dumb. Selene has the giant bear and a very obvious animation difference, and the blessed crucible final boss works on a timer. This has neither. Nor alot of room to dodge.

TheUndeadAmulet · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Oneshot mechanics on normal (or even vet) should be cleary telegraphed and have obvious and easyish ways to avoid them. If you got oneshot on normal then you obviously did a stupid.

The windup to the oneshot looks like every other charged attack in the game.

There is no distinguishing between them. And it's an area attack. It really is just that dumb.

Again... Don't stand in red circles and dont ignore charged attacks. For non-DLC dungeons you can pretty much ignore this but for the latest DLC dungeon?

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Oneshot mechanics on normal (or even vet) should be cleary telegraphed and have obvious and easyish ways to avoid them. If you got oneshot on normal then you obviously did a stupid.

The windup to the oneshot looks like every other charged attack in the game.

There is no distinguishing between them. And it's an area attack. It really is just that dumb.

Again... Don't stand in red circles and dont ignore charged attacks. For non-DLC dungeons you can pretty much ignore this but for the latest DLC dungeon?

I didn't. I blocked it. Like I block every other charged attack. It still one-shots, which is leading people to believe it must be dodged.

@TheUndeadAmulet read before posting. Or dont post. These are the common sense rules for the forums. Follow your own advice, pay attention or get out.

I have 38K health, armorcap, was blocking and have an additional 34% damage reduction from CP. And there wasn't enough room to see if there -was- a indicator that it was a cone and if there was a cone, people directly behind the boss got one-shotted too. So you tell me, what is the response to a indicator you cant see, if it even exists?

And to boot: This was normal. If you're not supposed to block, make that clear. If the indicator is lost because the room is so small, this is a sign of crap design. design. Having a different visual indicator or a little subtitle that says crap like this for all boss battles might be warranted. Other boss battles in the dungeon have one or more support characters shouting about stuff you need to watch out for, and endbosses have independant messages. Maybe friggin' add one?

troomar · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I ran through both on normal and while their interesting mechanics one instance on wolf-hunter stood out to me.

When I originally ran Moon Keep I got one-shotted at the archivist boss despite having 38K health, armorcap, 34% mitigation from CP and while blocking. On normal.

The second to last boss on vet was giving our tank hard time. I personally find the cleave damage from the werewolf a bit overtuned. Maybe we missed some mechanics, but at the beginning and then every time two monsters came and one of them changed to a big werewolf. We couldn't prevent it and when the change finished, he healed to full health (which was around 1M). Then he started doing a big cleave that gave our tank ~40k damage through block.

On the last boss, the dogs were similar in damage, but they had lower Health (around 700k) and the cleave was much smaller.

Anyway, generally I like these dungeons and can't wait to try them on hard mode

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

troomar wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I ran through both on normal and while their interesting mechanics one instance on wolf-hunter stood out to me.

When I originally ran Moon Keep I got one-shotted at the archivist boss despite having 38K health, armorcap, 34% mitigation from CP and while blocking. On normal.

The second to last boss on vet was giving our tank hard time. I personally find the cleave damage from the werewolf a bit overtuned. Maybe we missed some mechanics, but at the beginning and then every time two monsters came and one of them changed to a big werewolf. We couldn't prevent it and when the change finished, he healed to full health (which was around 1M). Then he started doing a big cleave that gave our tank ~40k damage through block.

On the last boss, the dogs were similar in damage, but they had lower Health (around 700k) and the cleave was much smaller.

Anyway, generally I like these dungeons and can't wait to try them on hard mode

This is about the experience I had, and it's that specific boss I'm talking about, and that damage. And that cleave. That is -exactly- what I'm talking about.

Yeah that is a little bit overtuned, and it's what I'm talking about. And it's just straight up overtuned, just reduce it by about five K and make it...you know...actually subject to resistances. That's it. No other changes needed. I dont think this is a hill we need to die on.

ScottOfLibertalia · August 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

This is about the experience I had, and it's that specific boss I'm talking about, and that damage. And that cleave. That is -exactly- what I'm talking about.

Yeah that is a little bit overtuned, and it's what I'm talking about. And it's just straight up overtuned, just reduce it by about five K and make it...you know...actually subject to resistances. That's it. No other changes needed. I dont think this is a hill we need to die on.

The adds in that fight, especially the Werewolf Behemoth, shouldn't be kept next to the Archivist or they enrage and deal significantly more damage than they're supposed to. There's a red circle around the boss that stays there throughout the encounter, as long as you keep the adds out of that you won't get one-shot.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Skitz001 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

This is about the experience I had, and it's that specific boss I'm talking about, and that damage. And that cleave. That is -exactly- what I'm talking about.

Yeah that is a little bit overtuned, and it's what I'm talking about. And it's just straight up overtuned, just reduce it by about five K and make it...you know...actually subject to resistances. That's it. No other changes needed. I dont think this is a hill we need to die on.

The adds in that fight, especially the Werewolf Behemoth, shouldn't be kept next to the Archivist or they enrage and deal significantly more damage than they're supposed to. There's a red circle around the boss that stays there throughout the encounter, as long as you keep the adds out of that you won't get one-shot.

So there -is- a circle? I never friggin' saw it but that explains a fair bit.

Dracane · August 2018

Has anyone figured out how to survive this roar from the hulking werewolves in Moon Hunter keep ? No matter what I do, it's impossible to survive.

code65536 · August 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Has anyone figured out how to survive this roar from the hulking werewolves in Moon Hunter keep ? No matter what I do, it's impossible to survive.

Be a tank and block it. A typical tank (a DK with 35K health in Ebon/Alkosh) should be able to survive it if they are blocking. And make sure anyone who is not a tank is on the tail so that they're not in the cone.

Dracane · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Has anyone figured out how to survive this roar from the hulking werewolves in Moon Hunter keep ? No matter what I do, it's impossible to survive.

Be a tank and block it. A typical tank (a DK with 35K health in Ebon/Alkosh) should be able to survive it if they are blocking. And make sure anyone who is not a tank is on the tail so that they're not in the cone.

Doesn't work. it always one shots. Even when I don't get hit, I will just die without a death recap. This is surely a bug.

In all YouTube videos, the Werewolved never use those breaths. There must be a way to prevent them all along, as they are clearly not supposed to be survived.

code65536 · August 2018

Dracane wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Has anyone figured out how to survive this roar from the hulking werewolves in Moon Hunter keep ? No matter what I do, it's impossible to survive.

Be a tank and block it. A typical tank (a DK with 35K health in Ebon/Alkosh) should be able to survive it if they are blocking. And make sure anyone who is not a tank is on the tail so that they're not in the cone.

Doesn't work. it always one shots. Even when I don't get hit, I will just die without a death recap. This is surely a bug.

In all YouTube videos, the Werewolved never use those breaths. There must be a way to prevent them all along, as they are clearly not supposed to be survived.

That's... unusual, then? The Hulking Werewolves do their breath cone pretty often. We did several runs of vMHK today for the no-death achievement, and never once did the tank die to that ability, and he was not wearing or doing anything special.

Dracane · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Has anyone figured out how to survive this roar from the hulking werewolves in Moon Hunter keep ? No matter what I do, it's impossible to survive.

Be a tank and block it. A typical tank (a DK with 35K health in Ebon/Alkosh) should be able to survive it if they are blocking. And make sure anyone who is not a tank is on the tail so that they're not in the cone.

Doesn't work. it always one shots. Even when I don't get hit, I will just die without a death recap. This is surely a bug.

In all YouTube videos, the Werewolved never use those breaths. There must be a way to prevent them all along, as they are clearly not supposed to be survived.

That's... unusual, then? The Hulking Werewolves do their breath cone pretty often. We did several runs of vMHK today for the no-death achievement, and never once did the tank die to that ability, and he was not wearing or doing anything special.

Then your run was in every way, controversal to what other YouTube runs show and to what we experienced.

Jameliel · August 2018

Go play DDO for 10 minutes. Even with its dated graphics, if you applaud these weak dungeon designs, you will worship the DDO designs haha.

max_only · August 2018

I did these two dungeons with my guild and it was fun.
I wouldn’t run them again though. Dungeons are just not my thing.
The only one I’ve purchased was the Falkreath one because of the mount and pet.

As far as mechanics, the Indrik was the best one they’ve made in a long time.

All the others were solved with dps. Kill the adds first, stack and burn, yadda yadda. Even the Archivist you are talking about in this thread, never got a chance to even figure out his multicolored magical runes all over the floor. And the Nord in the Hunting grounds, couldn’t see his red circles under the water so that was frustrating not challenging. Also it didn’t look soloable because you need a partner to interrupt the wind up. I know there are a few other dungeons like that and it’s a shame imho.

All in all, it’s not a movie I’d see twice but it was fun at the time.

Now if they had a way for us to solo it then I might be able to squeeze more enjoyment out of that kind of content.

Marabornwingrion · August 2018

I like these dudgeons for one reason: no lazy one-shot RNG mechanics.

You can easily get your HM, speed run and no death achievements after all team members will acknowledge mechanics. In Dragon Bones dungeons even if everyone knows mechanics perfectly, some of us is still getting one-shot by RNG (looking at you, statue of Peyrite), which makes me avoid these dungeons. Lazy and cheap RNG one-shots will never be fun, so I'm glad that developers listened to feedback.

Marabornwingrion · August 2018

@ZOS_Finn

Dracane · August 2018

Astrid_V wrote: »

I like these dudgeons for one reason: no lazy one-shot RNG mechanics.

You can easily get your HM, speed run and no death achievements after all team members will acknowledge mechanics. In Dragon Bones dungeons even if everyone knows mechanics perfectly, some of us is still getting one-shot by RNG (looking at you, statue of Peyrite), which makes me avoid these dungeons. Lazy and cheap RNG one-shots will never be fun, so I'm glad that developers listened to feedback.

This is exactly my opinion.

code65536 · August 2018

Astrid_V wrote: »

I like these dudgeons for one reason: no lazy one-shot RNG mechanics.

You can easily get your HM, speed run and no death achievements after all team members will acknowledge mechanics. In Dragon Bones dungeons even if everyone knows mechanics perfectly, some of us is still getting one-shot by RNG (looking at you, statue of Peyrite), which makes me avoid these dungeons. Lazy and cheap RNG one-shots will never be fun, so I'm glad that developers listened to feedback.

Once they added the 2s delay after Inferno's Hold before the next Pestilent Breath, I feel like there really isn't much in the way of RNG screwage in vet Scalecaller HM. With good awareness and positioning, the cones should not be killing you.

March of Sacrifices HM, on the other hand... you're running away from a shade that will kill you with a cheap 100K one-shot if they got in range, and you suddenly get grappled by a strangler with unusually long reach with no way to break free on your own.

I'll take the vSCP poison cones over the nonsense in vMoS HM any day, thank you very much.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Astrid_V wrote: »

I like these dudgeons for one reason: no lazy one-shot RNG mechanics.

You can easily get your HM, speed run and no death achievements after all team members will acknowledge mechanics. In Dragon Bones dungeons even if everyone knows mechanics perfectly, some of us is still getting one-shot by RNG (looking at you, statue of Peyrite), which makes me avoid these dungeons. Lazy and cheap RNG one-shots will never be fun, so I'm glad that developers listened to feedback.

This.

This and the fact that the normal version is little more then a taining ground for vet meaning half the teams I queue with cant complete it which means these dungeons have no worth to me.

ZOS. Stop making dungeons for tryhards. You're just...not very good at it, and I hate saying that but it's the truth. Some of the concepts for these fights, I absolutely love it. the Indrik fight, I love it on paper. In practice? It's just an RNG fest or oneshots and I'm tired of those. God only knows what the hardmodes are like.

When playing on normal is difficult and exclusionary enough to turn me off a DLC, you done something wrong. Stick to story. It's ESO's strength and allways has been, game design sure as *** ain' it.

Left4Daud · August 2018

"When your old pack shows up"

'Sup, Vykosa.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2018

Dracane wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Has anyone figured out how to survive this roar from the hulking werewolves in Moon Hunter keep ? No matter what I do, it's impossible to survive.

Be a tank and block it. A typical tank (a DK with 35K health in Ebon/Alkosh) should be able to survive it if they are blocking. And make sure anyone who is not a tank is on the tail so that they're not in the cone.

Doesn't work. it always one shots. Even when I don't get hit, I will just die without a death recap. This is surely a bug.

In all YouTube videos, the Werewolved never use those breaths. There must be a way to prevent them all along, as they are clearly not supposed to be survived.

Our experience was somewhere in the middle. The cone would def one shot a DPS. Our tank had trouble with it at first, but a few healing springs solved the issue. Tank definitely needs to control where they are pointed, that’s for sure.

MLGProPlayer · August 2018

All the recent DLC dungeons have been fantastic. The only unfair fight was the Scalecaller final boss on hard mode.

I haven't had a chance to try out the new dungeons, but hopefully they're more of the same..

Dracane · August 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Has anyone figured out how to survive this roar from the hulking werewolves in Moon Hunter keep ? No matter what I do, it's impossible to survive.

Be a tank and block it. A typical tank (a DK with 35K health in Ebon/Alkosh) should be able to survive it if they are blocking. And make sure anyone who is not a tank is on the tail so that they're not in the cone.

Doesn't work. it always one shots. Even when I don't get hit, I will just die without a death recap. This is surely a bug.

In all YouTube videos, the Werewolved never use those breaths. There must be a way to prevent them all along, as they are clearly not supposed to be survived.

Our experience was somewhere in the middle. The cone would def one shot a DPS. Our tank had trouble with it at first, but a few healing springs solved the issue. Tank definitely needs to control where they are pointed, that’s for sure.

We had no healer, maybe that could be a reason. Still, this burst was so intense, I am not sure a healer would be enough.