Counters to Shadow Image teleportation?

HankTwo · July 2018

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Jokes aside, I will try not to shame or anything and actually discuss topic.

1. Imo shade is meant to be 1vx skill. If nb is using it in pure 1v1 situaion (no other players, mobs) to los using floors/rocks he's bad. But i still think in duel situations, when u dont have los it's balanced, let u reposition, break melee range (especially usefull for magblades cuz lack of root/snare removal/immunity vs heavy cc classes like magdks). It's nice defense mechanic.

2. In 1v1 situations in tower (or anywhere tbh) ground effects placed on shade are usually useless from my experience. They can be annoying, they can help u fight guy, but they propably wont kill guy. Maybe mines, from all those they have decent dmg and can help secure kill by getting enought dmg to proc execute.

3. If u're playing semitank it clearly means u dont have enough dmg to kill guy. And like other ppl posted before, get low, lure guy into going offensive and kill him.

4. Like i said shade is meant to be solo skill. It's useless in groups higher than 4 imo (for example mirrage or deadly cloak or any other skill u didnt have place for on bars, u need to have more dmg to be able to kill ppl faster, or tankier, to be able to help group mates. Running away with shade is not helping your group). Check who's using shade, usually (not always of course) are ppl trying to play on their own or in really small groups. So u're it means u're complaying u cant kill (or zerg) solo guy and u're frustrated. Zerging and zergsurfing nb's usually dont use shade. No need, cuz the can just run away to their blob and snipe from it.

5. Other thing, imo if u're figthing in tower u dont really need to use shade. Tower provides enough los and tricks to kite ppl sucesfully. But like i said before, if 1 guy is running away from pure 1v1 in tower (or any los, cuz u can even do this with small tree), then he's bad.

6. If u want to fight those guys why going to resources then? Take your own and fight other ppl there. Dont be thirsty to chase nb into tower and let it be. If he really wants to fight u, he will follow u. Then 'U" can choose place to fight when he wont be able to los with shade. Like i said before, i think shade in pure duel situations is fine, a bit like streak.

7. There are hardcounters in this game. Shade may look for u like it a bit, but it's countering your lust to kill guy. There are worse thing imo . And u dont need to look far. Wings. Example from yesterday. Wings, if u build enough mag regen (which is not needed to be really high) u can just shut down most of magsorcs and magblades. And they cant do ANYTHING with it. In my opinion my friend is clearly better than u, but u counter him fully with just using wings every 6-8 sec. And he cant do anything with it. But on ther other side u wasnt able to kill him, even with wings, so my point with u playing semitank seems more viable. I think next patch will be kinda hard for sorcs and nbs cuz of it, wings are getting more and more popular.

8. On cp it's more noticable, but even on noncp it's possible to see this. Most of builds wont be able to kill guy who is turtiling (playing totally defensive). And u dont need shade for it.

About your ideas tbh, even before fully reading your post (later I realised u wrote it) the idea with synergy came to my mind. Sth like u make shadow path synergy which let u follow nb into place he ported. Make it short time (like 1-2 sec before it disappear), single one (only 1 guy can follow u, it disappear after using it) and make it work for both enemies and friends (would make mechanic much funnier and let nb actually help friends in any way, make it more group viable), whoever reacts faster. But like u said, there would be a lot of problems with ppl abusing it on keeps, so not sure if it's even posibble, or ZOS will care. Making it not working in keeps/outposts range would be ok, but ye. A lot of changes and programming, propably not worth time.

Thank you for this insightful response. I overall agree with most of the points you wrote. Especially that shade is indeed balanced when there is no LOS around and that it's needed as an escape tool when outnumbered. Your idea of a synergy for both enemies and allies sounds great to me, but because of the problems with keeps I also don't think that ZOS will ever implement something like this.

Btw, sorry but I'm kinda bad at remembering names in this game. I guess you are one of the ADs that were at BRK farm yesterday. What was your characters name if I may ask? It's pretty hard for me to duel good NBs when I play with a dizzying swing build because they can avoid it so often. PS: wings vs magblades is another topic but I think I could agree to make an additional magblade skill unreflectable.

My main problem with shade 1v1+LOS is that whenever I fight another player that outplays me I could think of mistakes I made or I can imagen changes in my build that would let me win. However, that's not the case for shade. Maybe I lack some imagination here but I can't see me killing such a player. From what I've seen if I would build for much higher damage/burst then surely I would be the one to end up dead instead.

Jaxaxo · July 2018

HankTwo wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Jokes aside, I will try not to shame or anything and actually discuss topic.

1. Imo shade is meant to be 1vx skill. If nb is using it in pure 1v1 situaion (no other players, mobs) to los using floors/rocks he's bad. But i still think in duel situations, when u dont have los it's balanced, let u reposition, break melee range (especially usefull for magblades cuz lack of root/snare removal/immunity vs heavy cc classes like magdks). It's nice defense mechanic.

2. In 1v1 situations in tower (or anywhere tbh) ground effects placed on shade are usually useless from my experience. They can be annoying, they can help u fight guy, but they propably wont kill guy. Maybe mines, from all those they have decent dmg and can help secure kill by getting enought dmg to proc execute.

3. If u're playing semitank it clearly means u dont have enough dmg to kill guy. And like other ppl posted before, get low, lure guy into going offensive and kill him.

4. Like i said shade is meant to be solo skill. It's useless in groups higher than 4 imo (for example mirrage or deadly cloak or any other skill u didnt have place for on bars, u need to have more dmg to be able to kill ppl faster, or tankier, to be able to help group mates. Running away with shade is not helping your group). Check who's using shade, usually (not always of course) are ppl trying to play on their own or in really small groups. So u're it means u're complaying u cant kill (or zerg) solo guy and u're frustrated. Zerging and zergsurfing nb's usually dont use shade. No need, cuz the can just run away to their blob and snipe from it.

5. Other thing, imo if u're figthing in tower u dont really need to use shade. Tower provides enough los and tricks to kite ppl sucesfully. But like i said before, if 1 guy is running away from pure 1v1 in tower (or any los, cuz u can even do this with small tree), then he's bad.

6. If u want to fight those guys why going to resources then? Take your own and fight other ppl there. Dont be thirsty to chase nb into tower and let it be. If he really wants to fight u, he will follow u. Then 'U" can choose place to fight when he wont be able to los with shade. Like i said before, i think shade in pure duel situations is fine, a bit like streak.

7. There are hardcounters in this game. Shade may look for u like it a bit, but it's countering your lust to kill guy. There are worse thing imo . And u dont need to look far. Wings. Example from yesterday. Wings, if u build enough mag regen (which is not needed to be really high) u can just shut down most of magsorcs and magblades. And they cant do ANYTHING with it. In my opinion my friend is clearly better than u, but u counter him fully with just using wings every 6-8 sec. And he cant do anything with it. But on ther other side u wasnt able to kill him, even with wings, so my point with u playing semitank seems more viable. I think next patch will be kinda hard for sorcs and nbs cuz of it, wings are getting more and more popular.

8. On cp it's more noticable, but even on noncp it's possible to see this. Most of builds wont be able to kill guy who is turtiling (playing totally defensive). And u dont need shade for it.

About your ideas tbh, even before fully reading your post (later I realised u wrote it) the idea with synergy came to my mind. Sth like u make shadow path synergy which let u follow nb into place he ported. Make it short time (like 1-2 sec before it disappear), single one (only 1 guy can follow u, it disappear after using it) and make it work for both enemies and friends (would make mechanic much funnier and let nb actually help friends in any way, make it more group viable), whoever reacts faster. But like u said, there would be a lot of problems with ppl abusing it on keeps, so not sure if it's even posibble, or ZOS will care. Making it not working in keeps/outposts range would be ok, but ye. A lot of changes and programming, propably not worth time.

Thank you for this insightful response. I overall agree with most of the points you wrote. Especially that shade is indeed balanced when there is no LOS around and that it's needed as an escape tool when outnumbered. Your idea of a synergy for both enemies and allies sounds great to me, but because of the problems with keeps I also don't think that ZOS will ever implement something like this.

Btw, sorry but I'm kinda bad at remembering names in this game. I guess you are one of the ADs that were at BRK farm yesterday. What was your characters name if I may ask? It's pretty hard for me to duel good NBs when I play with a dizzying swing build because they can avoid it so often. PS: wings vs magblades is another topic but I think I could agree to make an additional magblade skill unreflectable.

My main problem with shade 1v1+LOS is that whenever I fight another player that outplays me I could think of mistakes I made or I can imagen changes in my build that would let me win. However, that's not the case for shade. Maybe I lack some imagination here but I can't see me killing such a player. From what I've seen if I would build for much higher damage/burst then surely I would be the one to end up dead instead.

Check my signature, my account name is same like on forum.
Imo u look at this from wrong perspective. For me pvp is rather not dying (except situations when im clearly triggered

) than killing ppl. It,s not about winning, it's about not losing. If somebody is running away from u or just running around anything los for few min (and trust me, with proper build u can do this on any class) then u didnt lose, u should be happy. At least i am.

And like i said. If u go after nb (or tbh anything) into tower and the guy knows what to do, how to move, how to jump, u're not gonna kill him. But if he's enough thirsty to follow u when left resource then u should kill him or die to him. Problem solved.

HankTwo · July 2018

Jaxaxo wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Jokes aside, I will try not to shame or anything and actually discuss topic.

1. Imo shade is meant to be 1vx skill. If nb is using it in pure 1v1 situaion (no other players, mobs) to los using floors/rocks he's bad. But i still think in duel situations, when u dont have los it's balanced, let u reposition, break melee range (especially usefull for magblades cuz lack of root/snare removal/immunity vs heavy cc classes like magdks). It's nice defense mechanic.

2. In 1v1 situations in tower (or anywhere tbh) ground effects placed on shade are usually useless from my experience. They can be annoying, they can help u fight guy, but they propably wont kill guy. Maybe mines, from all those they have decent dmg and can help secure kill by getting enought dmg to proc execute.

3. If u're playing semitank it clearly means u dont have enough dmg to kill guy. And like other ppl posted before, get low, lure guy into going offensive and kill him.

4. Like i said shade is meant to be solo skill. It's useless in groups higher than 4 imo (for example mirrage or deadly cloak or any other skill u didnt have place for on bars, u need to have more dmg to be able to kill ppl faster, or tankier, to be able to help group mates. Running away with shade is not helping your group). Check who's using shade, usually (not always of course) are ppl trying to play on their own or in really small groups. So u're it means u're complaying u cant kill (or zerg) solo guy and u're frustrated. Zerging and zergsurfing nb's usually dont use shade. No need, cuz the can just run away to their blob and snipe from it.

5. Other thing, imo if u're figthing in tower u dont really need to use shade. Tower provides enough los and tricks to kite ppl sucesfully. But like i said before, if 1 guy is running away from pure 1v1 in tower (or any los, cuz u can even do this with small tree), then he's bad.

6. If u want to fight those guys why going to resources then? Take your own and fight other ppl there. Dont be thirsty to chase nb into tower and let it be. If he really wants to fight u, he will follow u. Then 'U" can choose place to fight when he wont be able to los with shade. Like i said before, i think shade in pure duel situations is fine, a bit like streak.

7. There are hardcounters in this game. Shade may look for u like it a bit, but it's countering your lust to kill guy. There are worse thing imo . And u dont need to look far. Wings. Example from yesterday. Wings, if u build enough mag regen (which is not needed to be really high) u can just shut down most of magsorcs and magblades. And they cant do ANYTHING with it. In my opinion my friend is clearly better than u, but u counter him fully with just using wings every 6-8 sec. And he cant do anything with it. But on ther other side u wasnt able to kill him, even with wings, so my point with u playing semitank seems more viable. I think next patch will be kinda hard for sorcs and nbs cuz of it, wings are getting more and more popular.

8. On cp it's more noticable, but even on noncp it's possible to see this. Most of builds wont be able to kill guy who is turtiling (playing totally defensive). And u dont need shade for it.

About your ideas tbh, even before fully reading your post (later I realised u wrote it) the idea with synergy came to my mind. Sth like u make shadow path synergy which let u follow nb into place he ported. Make it short time (like 1-2 sec before it disappear), single one (only 1 guy can follow u, it disappear after using it) and make it work for both enemies and friends (would make mechanic much funnier and let nb actually help friends in any way, make it more group viable), whoever reacts faster. But like u said, there would be a lot of problems with ppl abusing it on keeps, so not sure if it's even posibble, or ZOS will care. Making it not working in keeps/outposts range would be ok, but ye. A lot of changes and programming, propably not worth time.

Thank you for this insightful response. I overall agree with most of the points you wrote. Especially that shade is indeed balanced when there is no LOS around and that it's needed as an escape tool when outnumbered. Your idea of a synergy for both enemies and allies sounds great to me, but because of the problems with keeps I also don't think that ZOS will ever implement something like this.

Btw, sorry but I'm kinda bad at remembering names in this game. I guess you are one of the ADs that were at BRK farm yesterday. What was your characters name if I may ask? It's pretty hard for me to duel good NBs when I play with a dizzying swing build because they can avoid it so often. PS: wings vs magblades is another topic but I think I could agree to make an additional magblade skill unreflectable.

My main problem with shade 1v1+LOS is that whenever I fight another player that outplays me I could think of mistakes I made or I can imagen changes in my build that would let me win. However, that's not the case for shade. Maybe I lack some imagination here but I can't see me killing such a player. From what I've seen if I would build for much higher damage/burst then surely I would be the one to end up dead instead.

Check my signature, my account name is same like on forum.
Imo u look at this from wrong perspective. For me pvp is rather not dying (except situations when im clearly triggered ) than killing ppl. It,s not about winning, it's about not losing. If somebody is running away from u or just running around anything los for few min (and trust me, with proper build u can do this on any class) then u didnt lose, u should be happy. At least i am.

And like i said. If u go after nb (or tbh anything) into tower and the guy knows what to do, how to move, how to jump, u're not gonna kill him. But if he's enough thirsty to follow u when left resource then u should kill him or die to him. Problem solved.

Oh, my bad. It seems I'm blind.

So I see, that chain comment was just a joke haha xD

You are pretty good at not dying ^^ But do I read that correctly, you also have an EP char? Should play him more often

Jaxaxo · July 2018

HankTwo wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Jokes aside, I will try not to shame or anything and actually discuss topic.

1. Imo shade is meant to be 1vx skill. If nb is using it in pure 1v1 situaion (no other players, mobs) to los using floors/rocks he's bad. But i still think in duel situations, when u dont have los it's balanced, let u reposition, break melee range (especially usefull for magblades cuz lack of root/snare removal/immunity vs heavy cc classes like magdks). It's nice defense mechanic.

2. In 1v1 situations in tower (or anywhere tbh) ground effects placed on shade are usually useless from my experience. They can be annoying, they can help u fight guy, but they propably wont kill guy. Maybe mines, from all those they have decent dmg and can help secure kill by getting enought dmg to proc execute.

3. If u're playing semitank it clearly means u dont have enough dmg to kill guy. And like other ppl posted before, get low, lure guy into going offensive and kill him.

4. Like i said shade is meant to be solo skill. It's useless in groups higher than 4 imo (for example mirrage or deadly cloak or any other skill u didnt have place for on bars, u need to have more dmg to be able to kill ppl faster, or tankier, to be able to help group mates. Running away with shade is not helping your group). Check who's using shade, usually (not always of course) are ppl trying to play on their own or in really small groups. So u're it means u're complaying u cant kill (or zerg) solo guy and u're frustrated. Zerging and zergsurfing nb's usually dont use shade. No need, cuz the can just run away to their blob and snipe from it.

5. Other thing, imo if u're figthing in tower u dont really need to use shade. Tower provides enough los and tricks to kite ppl sucesfully. But like i said before, if 1 guy is running away from pure 1v1 in tower (or any los, cuz u can even do this with small tree), then he's bad.

6. If u want to fight those guys why going to resources then? Take your own and fight other ppl there. Dont be thirsty to chase nb into tower and let it be. If he really wants to fight u, he will follow u. Then 'U" can choose place to fight when he wont be able to los with shade. Like i said before, i think shade in pure duel situations is fine, a bit like streak.

7. There are hardcounters in this game. Shade may look for u like it a bit, but it's countering your lust to kill guy. There are worse thing imo . And u dont need to look far. Wings. Example from yesterday. Wings, if u build enough mag regen (which is not needed to be really high) u can just shut down most of magsorcs and magblades. And they cant do ANYTHING with it. In my opinion my friend is clearly better than u, but u counter him fully with just using wings every 6-8 sec. And he cant do anything with it. But on ther other side u wasnt able to kill him, even with wings, so my point with u playing semitank seems more viable. I think next patch will be kinda hard for sorcs and nbs cuz of it, wings are getting more and more popular.

8. On cp it's more noticable, but even on noncp it's possible to see this. Most of builds wont be able to kill guy who is turtiling (playing totally defensive). And u dont need shade for it.

About your ideas tbh, even before fully reading your post (later I realised u wrote it) the idea with synergy came to my mind. Sth like u make shadow path synergy which let u follow nb into place he ported. Make it short time (like 1-2 sec before it disappear), single one (only 1 guy can follow u, it disappear after using it) and make it work for both enemies and friends (would make mechanic much funnier and let nb actually help friends in any way, make it more group viable), whoever reacts faster. But like u said, there would be a lot of problems with ppl abusing it on keeps, so not sure if it's even posibble, or ZOS will care. Making it not working in keeps/outposts range would be ok, but ye. A lot of changes and programming, propably not worth time.

Thank you for this insightful response. I overall agree with most of the points you wrote. Especially that shade is indeed balanced when there is no LOS around and that it's needed as an escape tool when outnumbered. Your idea of a synergy for both enemies and allies sounds great to me, but because of the problems with keeps I also don't think that ZOS will ever implement something like this.

Btw, sorry but I'm kinda bad at remembering names in this game. I guess you are one of the ADs that were at BRK farm yesterday. What was your characters name if I may ask? It's pretty hard for me to duel good NBs when I play with a dizzying swing build because they can avoid it so often. PS: wings vs magblades is another topic but I think I could agree to make an additional magblade skill unreflectable.

My main problem with shade 1v1+LOS is that whenever I fight another player that outplays me I could think of mistakes I made or I can imagen changes in my build that would let me win. However, that's not the case for shade. Maybe I lack some imagination here but I can't see me killing such a player. From what I've seen if I would build for much higher damage/burst then surely I would be the one to end up dead instead.

Check my signature, my account name is same like on forum.
Imo u look at this from wrong perspective. For me pvp is rather not dying (except situations when im clearly triggered ) than killing ppl. It,s not about winning, it's about not losing. If somebody is running away from u or just running around anything los for few min (and trust me, with proper build u can do this on any class) then u didnt lose, u should be happy. At least i am.

And like i said. If u go after nb (or tbh anything) into tower and the guy knows what to do, how to move, how to jump, u're not gonna kill him. But if he's enough thirsty to follow u when left resource then u should kill him or die to him. Problem solved.

Oh, my bad. It seems I'm blind.

So I see, that chain comment was just a joke haha xD

You are pretty good at not dying ^^ But do I read that correctly, you also have an EP char? Should play him more often

Yeee, i played it "a bit" before, but first, most of my friends are on AD now, second, psijic grind 4th time is horrible (i did it already, but still need to level up things) and third, atm i made some experiments for cp campaigns and cloakless nb, maybe will come with it soon. Depends on map and group.

Sergykid · July 2018

HankTwo wrote: »

1) Make the Shadow Image work like an instant gap closer to your shade. This would mean that you can’t teleport to it when the shade is behind a wall or at a large vertical distance compared to your position. For compensation: if you can’t teleport to an existing shade place a new one instead and get the full magicka cost refunded.

this is all needed. If the shade is not in line of sight then you can't teleport to it.
also, by now, you should know that pvp is for sorcs and nbs, rest are free points

NightAngel690 · July 2018

I honestly don’t know much nbs who use this skill. The main ones I see use it are tanks or 1v1 duel builds...the only thing I can suggest is to use magpoisons. Increase the cost so that nbs can’t use it as much if at all and keep the fighting close to the shade as much as possible. Use
. If you have enough rss and skill points, use the rearming trap and lay it near the shade. That way, if and when they teleport, they will be trapped for a few seconds which in turn helps you control the field a little more. If you have class CCs, use them to trap them as well. Even if they teleport, they will still be stuck and Be forced to break free and use up their stam. Throw down AOE’s if you have them make as well.
Like someone suggested earlier, don’t let them dictate where the fighting takes place.

Ceepax · August 2018

LOl at OP, all u do is chase solo players in a tower outnumbering the 1 player, stop acting like you dont like to do that, ITS AL YOU DO xD

MalagenR · August 2018

NB's have the highest damage and the most survivability in PVP. Makes no sense. Yes, being able to dictate when you want to engage 100% of the time means you have the highest survivability. Literally NB's only die if they make a mistake, it's not a about how well I play my class, it's about how well they play their class.

HankTwo · August 2018

Ceepax wrote: »

LOl at OP, all u do is chase solo players in a tower outnumbering the 1 player, stop acting like you dont like to do that, ITS AL YOU DO xD

Untrue, I do all kinds of different stuff in Cyro. But this thread isn't about me personally, what I like to do or how I play. So, please stay on topic if you feel its worth bumping.

Lloydmp · August 2018

Counters to wings? Counters to streak? Counters to chains? Counters to shield stacking? Counters to total dark? Counters shimmering? Counters warden teleport skill? Counters to cloak?

All classes have skills that are hard to counter when used compitently, some classes/builds work better against others.

Shade is defensive so when the NB disappears hit meditate and reset your stats and see if he engauges again. It’s equally annying for him when he’s main chance of killing you is from cloak with upfront burst and he can’t kill you.

HankTwo · August 2018

Lloydmp wrote: »

Counters to wings? Counters to streak? Counters to chains? Counters to shield stacking? Counters to total dark? Counters shimmering? Counters warden teleport skill? Counters to cloak?

All classes have skills that are hard to counter when used compitently, some classes/builds work better against others.

Shade is defensive so when the NB disappears hit meditate and reset your stats and see if he engauges again. It’s equally annying for him when he’s main chance of killing you is from cloak with upfront burst and he can’t kill you.

Whataboutism par excellence ^^

Most of the stuff you mentioned has clear counters:

Streak -> Gap closers
Chains -> Block, also immovability
Total dark -> Break free (or even just attack someone else/play defensive unless you run DK)
Cloak -> Detect pots, AOEs (I know, I know, sometimes it seems to not work but still)

And that's how it should be in my opinion.

About the rest:

Shield stacking -> Shield breaker (even though i don't like the sets design), otherwise build for raw damage and ignore crits and penetration.
Wings and shimmering -> Basically every melee build. I do agree however, that they can be problematic vs certain builds like ranged magblade. Still a different topic though.
Warden teleport skill -> Dunno, because I basically never see it used in PvP so i doubt its a problem.

srnm · August 2018

Oblivion damage counters wings and shield stackers too.

I think oblivion damage is in the game for a reason.
The game devs know it's needed as a hard counter to certain abilities and builds...

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2018

srnm wrote: »

Oblivion damage counters wings and shield stackers too.

I think oblivion damage is in the game for a reason.
The game devs know it's needed as a hard counter to certain abilities and builds...

If they game devs would really know their stuff, we'd have a lot less balancing issues and certainly no oblivion dmg.

Priyasekarssk · August 2018

Tryxus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Play mWarden...

But srsly, don't tell ZOS we still have a good skill vs Nightblades. They will nerf it

lol. You understand ESO very well. Congrats.

Thogard · August 2018

Leave NBs alone. It’s not their fault they can’t figure out how to survive using the game mechanics available to every class. There has to be a class available that’s loaded with crutches so that the less skilled players can feel competitive. The trade off is that the class is useless in group settings, so don’t worry, the bad players are still irrelevant. But at least they can pretend that they aren’t.

Waffennacht · August 2018

I always put NB away. It has everything

CCs ? Check, and several at that
Gap closer? Check
Soft CC? Check
Gap maker? Check (and only 2 classes have 1!)
Execute? Check
Heals? Check
Dots? Check
AoEs? Check

Passives that other classes need to slot skills for? Check!
Abilities unique to the class itself?! Check!!

Well it's ults gotta be Luke warm at best right? Like .... nvm CHECK

Pets??? Check motha!

It's like.... dammmmmn NB,

technohic · August 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

I always put NB away. It has everything

CCs ? Check, and several at that
Gap closer? Check
Soft CC? Check
Gap maker? Check (and only 2 classes have 1!)
Execute? Check
Heals? Check
Dots? Check
AoEs? Check

Passives that other classes need to slot skills for? Check!
Abilities unique to the class itself?! Check!!

Well it's ults gotta be Luke warm at best right? Like .... nvm CHECK

Pets??? Check motha!

It's like.... dammmmmn NB,

Defile? Check
Maim? Check

Ran my stamplar last night who I had considered my main since launch, but after playing my stamblade it just feels like I am gimped. Although my stamplar is a werewolf and that feels pretty good now.

SugaComa · August 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Play mWarden, place Frozen Device on shade, profit

But yeah, it's an annoying skill to fight against imo

Is that the same one use to teleport bombers from flags to top of towers ?

Never played a warden

mojomood · August 2018

I honestly can't believe this is even a thread. A request for counterplay suggests by that the other party has a burst that cannot be countered because of a CC or similar condition that prevents avoiding the damage. Shade is not offensive. If you were getting the best of a nb and they run off, good job. Next time use a counter listed above (any trap/mine/gate skill on the shade) which at least one is available to any class. If you don't want to slot it, then that is your build choice.

The main counter is situational awareness...don't fight where they want to. There is a reason they want that rock/tree/tower. No different than the tower running stam sorcs with swift so they can hit max speed without sprinting. You want to nerf them cause you can't catch them?
If you choose to fight them there, be aware of the fight time. After 20 seconds, that shade is gone. If you see the shade, remember it and stay close until it expires.

HowlKimchi · August 2018

If you wanna nerf Shadow Image, you better give destro Magblades some form of snare immunity otherwise they'd be useless in open world.

technohic · August 2018

HaruKamui wrote: »

If you wanna nerf Shadow Image, you better give destro Magblades some form of snare immunity otherwise they'd be useless in open world.

This is another example of sorc and NB mains out of touch with all the other classes. All other classes have to use must form or forward momentum/shuffle or a group mate with rapids. I guess DKs just now got a snare immunity but they weren’t useless without it.

And I don’t think anyone is asking for shadow image to really be nerfed. It’s an interesting tool IMO. They just want to know how to deal with it.

HankTwo · August 2018

mojomood wrote: »

I honestly can't believe this is even a thread. A request for counterplay suggests by that the other party has a burst that cannot be countered because of a CC or similar condition that prevents avoiding the damage. Shade is not offensive. If you were getting the best of a nb and they run off, good job. Next time use a counter listed above (any trap/mine/gate skill on the shade) which at least one is available to any class. If you don't want to slot it, then that is your build choice.

The main counter is situational awareness...don't fight where they want to. There is a reason they want that rock/tree/tower. No different than the tower running stam sorcs with swift so they can hit max speed without sprinting. You want to nerf them cause you can't catch them?
If you choose to fight them there, be aware of the fight time. After 20 seconds, that shade is gone. If you see the shade, remember it and stay close until it expires.

Did you read the thread? Because just naming trap/mine skills brings nothing new to the discussion. They were already discussed in detail earlier. So, if you still think they work as a counter please elaborate why my tests are incorrect.

HaruKamui wrote: »

If you wanna nerf Shadow Image, you better give destro Magblades some form of snare immunity otherwise they'd be useless in open world.

I don't want it nerfed to the ground. At the moment I think a snare + cc immunity removal upon teleportation would be a great way to make trap skills useful against shade.

Do you think this change would be to severe? Because I can't imagine that it would change the open world gameplay for NBs in most cases. I imagine most players would still slot no trap skills but at least it would enable players to counter it.

Biro123 · August 2018

It has a VERY short range - which pretty much means needing to be combined with LoS

Try kiting them away from obstacles. Failing that - leave them be - don't fight on their terms.

HowlKimchi · August 2018

technohic wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

If you wanna nerf Shadow Image, you better give destro Magblades some form of snare immunity otherwise they'd be useless in open world.

This is another example of sorc and NB mains out of touch with all the other classes. All other classes have to use must form or forward momentum/shuffle or a group mate with rapids. I guess DKs just now got a snare immunity but they weren’t useless without it.

And I don’t think anyone is asking for shadow image to really be nerfed. It’s an interesting tool IMO. They just want to know how to deal with it.

Sure, and while were at it, lets change all the other skills that makes classes unique. Why do you assume im a magblade main? I’m a magplar main and I dont want the knee jerk nerfs that zos makes to classes because of dumb nerf threads.

And if you dont think anyone is asking for shadow image to really be nerfed, you should probably read the thread first before posting.

thankyourat · August 2018

technohic wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

If you wanna nerf Shadow Image, you better give destro Magblades some form of snare immunity otherwise they'd be useless in open world.

This is another example of sorc and NB mains out of touch with all the other classes. All other classes have to use must form or forward momentum/shuffle or a group mate with rapids. I guess DKs just now got a snare immunity but they weren’t useless without it.

And I don’t think anyone is asking for shadow image to really be nerfed. It’s an interesting tool IMO. They just want to know how to deal with it.

Out of touch? that's like me saying Templars and dks are out of touch because they have burst healing and or major mending. Nightblades have to slot a resto staff, Templars and dks have class burst heals.

technohic · August 2018

thankyourat wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

If you wanna nerf Shadow Image, you better give destro Magblades some form of snare immunity otherwise they'd be useless in open world.

This is another example of sorc and NB mains out of touch with all the other classes. All other classes have to use must form or forward momentum/shuffle or a group mate with rapids. I guess DKs just now got a snare immunity but they weren’t useless without it.

And I don’t think anyone is asking for shadow image to really be nerfed. It’s an interesting tool IMO. They just want to know how to deal with it.

Out of touch? that's like me saying Templars and dks are out of touch because they have burst healing and or major mending. Nightblades have to slot a resto staff, Templars and dks have class burst heals.

Yeah that Templar major mending. Lol did I travel back in time to pre Morrowind?

But wether you like it or not; isn’t the other morph of cloak a burst heal now albeit health based? Matriarch a burst heal? Seriously. It’s gotten pretty sad watching NBs and sorcs whining about how bad they have it half the time when they lose something while the other half whining about the other class being OP.

I mean you don’t think it would bean exaggeration to say NBs would be “useless” without shadow image and no class based snare immunity? Or sorcs “woe is me! My CC is now dodgeable but still unblockable so it’s useless but I’m going to equip the CC that is both blickable and dodgeable because it still does damage although we cried all of Sunnerset that the damage was no big deal. Boohoohoo” Give me a break.

And I don’t have a problem with either class having these abilities. I use them and enjoy them. It’s the people who have tunnel vision in these 2 classes that are getting annoying

Micah_Bayer · August 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Stand next to the shade. Problem solved.

they just want to nerf everything in eso, they dont want solutions, they want nerfs.

Like you lol

thankyourat · August 2018

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

If you wanna nerf Shadow Image, you better give destro Magblades some form of snare immunity otherwise they'd be useless in open world.

This is another example of sorc and NB mains out of touch with all the other classes. All other classes have to use must form or forward momentum/shuffle or a group mate with rapids. I guess DKs just now got a snare immunity but they weren’t useless without it.

And I don’t think anyone is asking for shadow image to really be nerfed. It’s an interesting tool IMO. They just want to know how to deal with it.

Out of touch? that's like me saying Templars and dks are out of touch because they have burst healing and or major mending. Nightblades have to slot a resto staff, Templars and dks have class burst heals.

Yeah that Templar major mending. Lol did I travel back in time to pre Morrowind?

But wether you like it or not; isn’t the other morph of cloak a burst heal now albeit health based? Matriarch a burst heal? Seriously. It’s gotten pretty sad watching NBs and sorcs whining about how bad they have it half the time when they lose something while the other half whining about the other class being OP.

I mean you don’t think it would bean exaggeration to say NBs would be “useless” without shadow image and no class based snare immunity? Or sorcs “woe is me! My CC is now dodgeable but still unblockable so it’s useless but I’m going to equip the CC that is both blickable and dodgeable because it still does damage although we cried all of Sunnerset that the damage was no big deal. Boohoohoo” Give me a break.

And I don’t have a problem with either class having these abilities. I use them and enjoy them. It’s the people who have tunnel vision in these 2 classes that are getting annoying

I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say MAGblade would be useless without shadow image and no snare immunity added to the class. Stamblade would be fine. The other classes are fine in my opinion especially magplar. I could make a decent argument for magplar being the best class in the game and over-centralizing class altogether. If a group has a magplar they have a massive advantage over a group that doesn't. There only people who think magplar are weak are people trying to 1vX with it. My argument is saying that magblade would be useless with shadow image isn't a exaggeration or someone being out of touch. Talking away shadow image from magblade is basically the equivalent of taking away BoL away from Templars

HankTwo · August 2018

thankyourat wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

If you wanna nerf Shadow Image, you better give destro Magblades some form of snare immunity otherwise they'd be useless in open world.

This is another example of sorc and NB mains out of touch with all the other classes. All other classes have to use must form or forward momentum/shuffle or a group mate with rapids. I guess DKs just now got a snare immunity but they weren’t useless without it.

And I don’t think anyone is asking for shadow image to really be nerfed. It’s an interesting tool IMO. They just want to know how to deal with it.

Out of touch? that's like me saying Templars and dks are out of touch because they have burst healing and or major mending. Nightblades have to slot a resto staff, Templars and dks have class burst heals.

Yeah that Templar major mending. Lol did I travel back in time to pre Morrowind?

But wether you like it or not; isn’t the other morph of cloak a burst heal now albeit health based? Matriarch a burst heal? Seriously. It’s gotten pretty sad watching NBs and sorcs whining about how bad they have it half the time when they lose something while the other half whining about the other class being OP.

I mean you don’t think it would bean exaggeration to say NBs would be “useless” without shadow image and no class based snare immunity? Or sorcs “woe is me! My CC is now dodgeable but still unblockable so it’s useless but I’m going to equip the CC that is both blickable and dodgeable because it still does damage although we cried all of Sunnerset that the damage was no big deal. Boohoohoo” Give me a break.

And I don’t have a problem with either class having these abilities. I use them and enjoy them. It’s the people who have tunnel vision in these 2 classes that are getting annoying

I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say MAGblade would be useless without shadow image and no snare immunity added to the class. Stamblade would be fine. The other classes are fine in my opinion especially magplar. I could make a decent argument for magplar being the best class in the game and over-centralizing class altogether. If a group has a magplar they have a massive advantage over a group that doesn't. There only people who think magplar are weak are people trying to 1vX with it. My argument is saying that magblade would be useless with shadow image isn't a exaggeration or someone being out of touch. Talking away shadow image from magblade is basically the equivalent of taking away BoL away from Templars

Just taking shadow image away was never up to debate here anyway.

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2018

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

If you wanna nerf Shadow Image, you better give destro Magblades some form of snare immunity otherwise they'd be useless in open world.

This is another example of sorc and NB mains out of touch with all the other classes. All other classes have to use must form or forward momentum/shuffle or a group mate with rapids. I guess DKs just now got a snare immunity but they weren’t useless without it.

And I don’t think anyone is asking for shadow image to really be nerfed. It’s an interesting tool IMO. They just want to know how to deal with it.

Out of touch? that's like me saying Templars and dks are out of touch because they have burst healing and or major mending. Nightblades have to slot a resto staff, Templars and dks have class burst heals.

But wether you like it or not; isn’t the other morph of cloak a burst heal now albeit health based? Matriarch a burst heal? Seriously. It’s gotten pretty sad watching NBs and sorcs whining about how bad they have it half the time when they lose something while the other half whining about the other class being OP.

I mean you don’t think it would bean exaggeration to say NBs would be “useless” without shadow image and no class based snare immunity? Or sorcs “woe is me! My CC is now dodgeable but still unblockable so it’s useless but I’m going to equip the CC that is both blickable and dodgeable because it still does damage although we cried all of Sunnerset that the damage was no big deal. Boohoohoo” Give me a break.

That one way to look at it... But obviously you never heared of opportunity costs.