Rune Cage: new nerf idea

Swimguy · June 2018

Aye, neuter it!

just make rune cage deal 30k oblivion damage to its caster

Weps · June 2018

Aye, neuter it!

The problem with the whole Rune Cage is that is yet another undodgeable, unblockable, almost uncounterable skill the sorcs has on their toolkit.

You can argue that MagDk had the same tool before this patch in fossilize. They could cage you right when the meteor hit you from 40mts away...too bad MagDK couldn't add an unavoidable and unblockable 5k+ curse, with a 5k+ undodgeable and unblockable execution that automatically procs plus a 4-5k unavoidable, undodgeable and unblockable passive execution on top of all that. All paired with a 5k+ 28mt range burst skill.

I'm not all good about nerfing this or nerfing that, I'd like to travel down the rebalance road tbh.
But in the current state of Rune Cage, is too unbalanced, it needs a drastic change

Feanor · June 2018

U mad brah?

Hammy01 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

itsfatbass wrote: »

Well considering they took away ALL of the sorcs ability to CC, and given it is the ONLY CC that a magsorc has access to, I think it's pretty much EXACTLY what they needed. In non cp BGs, the dmg from the stun break on it is HARDLY a concern, and the whole Fury + RC combo, while it can melt people, has no more of an ability to do so than MANYYYYYYY other classes combos. Please do not TOUCH this ability ZoS, this is exactly what sorc needed to just be on PAR with other classes in PvP.

“On par with other classes in PvP” are you a troll?

Firstly, magsorcs have multiple cc’s streak, volatile familiar pulse, storm atro initial impact.

The dmg is about 6-8k on tooltip, which translates to about 3-4K damage, that’s quite a lot of dmg for an undodgeable unblockable cc.

No class combo in the entire game is as broken as the rune cage wombo combo. NB’s best combo is fear, incap, bow. Which can be easily countered by either maintaining distance from melee range, using an immov pot, of breaking out in time to dodge one of the abilities.
DK’s fossilize also requires you to be in melee range, DK’s have no access to burst like sorcs do. The best they can do is leap or power lash, which is easily survivable, and is 1 ability hitting you.

Sorcs have multiple hard hitting abilities such as crystal fragments, curse, endless fury, and overload. Etc. You can easily kill your opponent with this no skill combo.

Lastly, magsorcs are not only on par. But far more supieror to all classes in PvP due to endless shield stacking and extremely high damage output. Rune cage takes no skill to use and has no counter play.

You have proved to this entire thread that you have no PvP knowledge or you’re just a sorc fanboy who doesn’t want their precious build ruined. Either that or you’re trolling.

Lolll don't forget they have mines and an AOE root as well!!

And to think the player you quoted said cage was the only cc sorcs had access too !

We finally arrived at a point where every Sorc class skill is considered OP by a hysterical forum. I expected no less.

Sinolai · June 2018

U mad brah?

And those nightblades always hitting you once and then cloacking & rolling! I cant even hit those cowards. Dodgeroll has no counter Give cloak streak treatment increasing its cost and reduce dodgeroll evasion time!
And make that stupid fear thing blockable!! I hate it how it makes my character run to wrong direction and getting me killed.

Sinolai · June 2018

U mad brah?

leepalmer95 wrote: »

This skill on a class where revolves around setting up several skills to hit at once is stupid.

Curse/ meteor/ frag + fury. Literally cannot do anything, 0 counterplay.

Curse is purgeable, frag and fury can be dodged and all classes can hide behind a rock to wait for curse/frag/fury end.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

And I’m so tired of being in the thick of of the fight and “some” cheeky Templar dark flare spams me and then soul assaults me from 28 meters. Definitely reduce soul assault and dark flare to 8 meters.

Gtfo here with this 8 meters BS. Shorten the stun, take the damage down a little but we’re not forcing a ranged class to get into melee range to CC. Wtf is everyone’s problem with this skill? It’s just a little stronger than it should be. I literally do not care about this skill when I’m on my stam toons except that the stun should be shorter maybe 2-3 seconds so that if you’re low on stam but you’re properly use LOS when you’re in trouble, you could get hit with it and have a chance for it to end before your enemy catches up.

Have you even played PvP this patch? Just a little stronger than it should be? Lol. This skill is a nightmare. If you're fighting 1v1 you can deal with it. If you are outnumbered AT ALL your are freaking toast and there is nothing you can do about it. RC itself doesn't seem threatening by tooltip but it guarantees that the entire combo will land and you'll pop like a balloon unless you have 40k HP.

Been PvPing constantly mate. But lets be real, when you're fighting outnumbered the things that will *** you up include: lethal arrow, dark flare, fossilize, sub assault, sloads, zaan, time stop, crippling grasp, fear, javelin, i mean the list goes on. It only guarantees that the entire combo works, so long as the person doesn't LOS you or have an immov pot up. I mean mag sorcs need something to combat reflects and block builds and meteor is so slow and stupidly easy to block that if we don't have a good CC with some time on it then landing a good ult combo is just way too hard. To me it just sounds like you want to the skill nerfed to uselessness. You're not even really suggesting any reasonable changes. I could see it being dodge able with no issues, or leave it as is and nerf the damage if thats what you're worried about. Honestly I think what you're really feeling is the fact that CC break is pretty broken and rune prison ends up being a pretty bad offender when it comes to not being able to break out when you should in fact be able to. Reducing the range to 8 meters though is silly. Flame reach imo is a giant joke of a skill, really only suited to zerglings, so if you want a change to Rune Prison come up with something reasonable that doesnt gut the skill or require a ranged class to play in melee range. I could see knocking it down to 12 meters or 15 or something, but lets not go overboard. Gut reaction posts just lead to over nerfs and class gutting. You play a templar, you should understand that better than anyone.

Nailed it. Not denying this skill is strong, but they need to stop tinkering with any CC skill at this point until they actually fix CC immunity. I think rune cage becomes harder to deal with because it feels like the animation is a bit misleading. What I mean is that if you start CC breaking the instant you see the animation it wont work, but usually, you should at that point be able to get off one more skill. You have to wait just a bit to actually CC break. I think the animation and telegraph might need to be looked at.

lucky_Sage · June 2018

the problem is sorcs took a dk ability and made it better for sorc while nerfing the dks same ability saying it was to strong.

Feanor · June 2018

U mad brah?

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the problem is sorcs took a dk ability and made it better for sorc while nerfing the dks same ability saying it was to strong.

Rune Cage isn’t Fossilize though. Fossilize is melee, yes, but it costs only 2,700 magicka base and has that annoying immobilize after the stun ends. Rune Cage doesn’t have all that. If it didn’t fit into the delayed burst right now nobody would use it for the cost it has - just like it was before Summerset.

Aedaryl · June 2018

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the problem is sorcs took a dk ability and made it better for sorc while nerfing the dks same ability saying it was to strong.

No.

Sorcs didn't take a DK ability.

ZoS made it. Wrobel made it.

Sorc didn't ask for rune cage and sorcs disagree when they put the damage on breakfree.

Stop thinking this world is a reptilian sorc conspiration.

mb10 · June 2018

Aye, neuter it!

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I wanna say keep the range, BUT reduce the stun time. 5 seconds is pretty stupid, considering sorcs have various stuns already. Tbh 3 secs at most would do.

3 secs? lol youre dead in 3 secs in PVP

It should just immobilize imo or might as well give it a 10 minute stun because it wont matter, either you break free or you die.

Micah_Bayer · June 2018

U mad brah?

Maulkin wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I hoped my days of making rageful nerf cries on the forums were over, but Rune Cage design is pure idiocy and it needs to be changed.

I'm so tired of being in the thick of an XvX fight having a great time until some cheeky sorc in the bushes deletes me effortlessly with a Rune > Meteor > Fury. Every BG lately is decided by which team has the most sorcs pulling these skill-less shenanigans. Like, how does Wrobel sneak these things in without SOMEONE on the combat team saying "hey boss, that's probably not a good idea, maybe add some counterplay"?

It needs to be fixed; end this dumbassery. If the current design is to remain I suggest it have the range reduced to 8 meters. The Defensive Rune morph is fine as is IMO.

Alright so I've slept on it. I'm still disgusted by the stupidity of this morph but I'm seeing a little more clearly now. A range nerf isn't ideal but the solution is pretty simple:

Rune Cage should be a dodgeable projectile (like a net from the sky, not from the caster) and Streak should be blockable. Then sorcs still have an answer to both types of defense without having one nightmare CC.

When you say, Streak should be blockable? It's already blockable.

Rune Cage was fine last patch. They just didn't need to buff it. And if they were so inclined to buff it, adding instant damage on break was not the smartest idea.

It's too strong now, it's overperforming.

Yeah I was just reiterating blockable Streak to say that Sorc would have an answer to both defenses.

I actually think Streak is the skill that should be unblockable & undodgeable since it's melee (8m) range, it has a stacking cost , requires positional awareness (you have to be close and direct it at the target), deals little damage and requires you to sacrifice BoL morph with projectile protection. Then we can do away with Rune Cage as a skill altogether and hopefully MagSorcs can finally get a DoT skill in its place instead.

The major problem for me with curse->meteor->cage combo is that it's executed from the safety of 28m (or 40m+ around keeps in Cyro) away. And your suggestion is not dealing with that.

Your suggestion would only help some dodge rollers and not massively either. Because if you try to dodge the Cage in the Curse->Meteor->Cage combo, it means you're not blocking the Meteor since you drop block while dodging. The rest of the chars that can't really dodge all the time would still have to take the full combo, like they currently do.

Well first of all a curse rune cage and meteor is not going to kill you. Oh and you should see the frag coming miles away if they are doing that combo 40 meters away. If you do 40 meters away to that combo...were you really paying attention? A lot of people survive that combo in cyro.

Mintaka5 · August 2018

Nay, L2P

Honestly, GTFOH! Rune is one of the best options for sorc survivability against snipers and gap closing DKs. I'm sorry you're KDR is not higher, but honestly stop nerfing sorcs! There is no need.

xericdx · August 2018

...ehm...Necroing another thread on Rune Cage? Is already nerfed, live tomorrow... Now even worse than before Summerset when no one was using it (will be dodgeable).

Oh well

leepalmer95 · August 2018

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I hoped my days of making rageful nerf cries on the forums were over, but Rune Cage design is pure idiocy and it needs to be changed.

I'm so tired of being in the thick of an XvX fight having a great time until some cheeky sorc in the bushes deletes me effortlessly with a Rune > Meteor > Fury. Every BG lately is decided by which team has the most sorcs pulling these skill-less shenanigans. Like, how does Wrobel sneak these things in without SOMEONE on the combat team saying "hey boss, that's probably not a good idea, maybe add some counterplay"?

It needs to be fixed; end this dumbassery. If the current design is to remain I suggest it have the range reduced to 8 meters. The Defensive Rune morph is fine as is IMO.

Alright so I've slept on it. I'm still disgusted by the stupidity of this morph but I'm seeing a little more clearly now. A range nerf isn't ideal but the solution is pretty simple:

Rune Cage should be a dodgeable projectile (like a net from the sky, not from the caster) and Streak should be blockable. Then sorcs still have an answer to both types of defense without having one nightmare CC.

When you say, Streak should be blockable? It's already blockable.

Rune Cage was fine last patch. They just didn't need to buff it. And if they were so inclined to buff it, adding instant damage on break was not the smartest idea.

It's too strong now, it's overperforming.

Yeah I was just reiterating blockable Streak to say that Sorc would have an answer to both defenses.

I actually think Streak is the skill that should be unblockable & undodgeable since it's melee (8m) range, it has a stacking cost , requires positional awareness (you have to be close and direct it at the target), deals little damage and requires you to sacrifice BoL morph with projectile protection. Then we can do away with Rune Cage as a skill altogether and hopefully MagSorcs can finally get a DoT skill in its place instead.

The major problem for me with curse->meteor->cage combo is that it's executed from the safety of 28m (or 40m+ around keeps in Cyro) away. And your suggestion is not dealing with that.

Your suggestion would only help some dodge rollers and not massively either. Because if you try to dodge the Cage in the Curse->Meteor->Cage combo, it means you're not blocking the Meteor since you drop block while dodging. The rest of the chars that can't really dodge all the time would still have to take the full combo, like they currently do.

Well first of all a curse rune cage and meteor is not going to kill you. Oh and you should see the frag coming miles away if they are doing that combo 40 meters away. If you do 40 meters away to that combo...were you really paying attention? A lot of people survive that combo in cyro.

Tbh if its 40m you can actually break free the rune cage and roll/ block the frag. Even with the buggy cast and break free with how delayed it is.

They really should of fixed the skill's cast time and break free so it's instant. That way good players who react fact enough could dodge the frag/ force pulse after the rune cage if they were like 20m~ away.