Rune Cage: new nerf idea

Solariken

I hoped my days of making rageful nerf cries on the forums were over, but Rune Cage design is pure idiocy and it needs to be changed.

I'm so tired of being in the thick of an XvX fight having a great time until some cheeky sorc in the bushes deletes me effortlessly with a Rune > Meteor > Fury. Every BG lately is decided by which team has the most sorcs pulling these skill-less shenanigans. Like, how does Wrobel sneak these things in without SOMEONE on the combat team saying "hey boss, that's probably not a good idea, maybe add some counterplay"?

It needs to be fixed; end this dumbassery. If the current design is to remain I suggest it have the range reduced to 8 meters. The Defensive Rune morph is fine as is IMO.

Alright so I've slept on it. I'm still disgusted by the stupidity of this morph but I'm seeing a little more clearly now. A range nerf isn't ideal but the solution is pretty simple:

Rune Cage should be a dodgeable projectile (like a net from the sky, not from the caster) and Streak should be blockable. Then sorcs still have an answer to both types of defense without having one nightmare CC.

Nevasca

The range of the skill is not the problem imo... A skill that goes through block and roll dodge has literally 0 counter play, the design is already flawled. Yes, the same applies to Petrify. *** that too. Both skills go through CC immunity when it shouldn't (not 100% of the time, but still), adding even more salt to the fellow PvPer.

I'd prefer if Rune Cage was a projectile that you could block/dodge. I agree that the other morph is fine as is.

Vapirko

Nay, L2P

And I’m so tired of being in the thick of of the fight and “some” cheeky Templar dark flare spams me and then soul assaults me from 28 meters. Definitely reduce soul assault and dark flare to 8 meters.

Gtfo here with this 8 meters BS. Shorten the stun, take the damage down a little but we’re not forcing a ranged class to get into melee range to CC. Wtf is everyone’s problem with this skill? It’s just a little stronger than it should be. I literally do not care about this skill when I’m on my stam toons except that the stun should be shorter maybe 2-3 seconds so that if you’re low on stam but you’re properly use LOS when you’re in trouble, you could get hit with it and have a chance for it to end before your enemy catches up.

Solariken

Aye, neuter it!

Vapirko wrote: »

And I’m so tired of being in the thick of of the fight and “some” cheeky Templar dark flare spams me and then soul assaults me from 28 meters. Definitely reduce soul assault and dark flare to 8 meters.

Gtfo here with this 8 meters BS. Shorten the stun, take the damage down a little but we’re not forcing a ranged class to get into melee range to CC. Wtf is everyone’s problem with this skill? It’s just a little stronger than it should be. I literally do not care about this skill when I’m on my stam toons except that the stun should be shorter maybe 2-3 seconds so that if you’re low on stam but you’re properly use LOS when you’re in trouble, you could get hit with it and have a chance for it to end before your enemy catches up.

Have you even played PvP this patch? Just a little stronger than it should be? Lol. This skill is a nightmare. If you're fighting 1v1 you can deal with it. If you are outnumbered AT ALL your are freaking toast and there is nothing you can do about it. RC itself doesn't seem threatening by tooltip but it guarantees that the entire combo will land and you'll pop like a balloon unless you have 40k HP.

Deep_01

Give cfrag it's stun back

bardx86

Nay, L2P

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

The range of the skill is not the problem imo... A skill that goes through block and roll dodge has literally 0 counter play, the design is already flawled. Yes, the same applies to Petrify. *** that too. Both skills go through CC immunity when it shouldn't (not 100% of the time, but still), adding even more salt to the fellow PvPer.

I'd prefer if Rune Cage was a projectile that you could block/dodge. I agree that the other morph is fine as is.

If anything its the epitome of counter play . How does a ranged damage class ever land a skill with classes being able to dodge all day and have passive dodge?

bardx86

Nay, L2P

Deep_01 wrote: »

Give cfrag it's stun back

Ship has sailed, give frags its damage back.

ll_Rev

Aye, neuter it!

bardx86 wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

The range of the skill is not the problem imo... A skill that goes through block and roll dodge has literally 0 counter play, the design is already flawled. Yes, the same applies to Petrify. *** that too. Both skills go through CC immunity when it shouldn't (not 100% of the time, but still), adding even more salt to the fellow PvPer.

I'd prefer if Rune Cage was a projectile that you could block/dodge. I agree that the other morph is fine as is.

If anything its the epitome of counter play . How does a ranged damage class ever land a skill with classes being able to dodge all day and have passive dodge?

dodge all day? uh this isn't 1.6

Gprime31

Anything that punishes you for attacking someone is dumb

bardx86

Nay, L2P

Vapirko wrote: »

And I’m so tired of being in the thick of of the fight and “some” cheeky Templar dark flare spams me and then soul assaults me from 28 meters. Definitely reduce soul assault and dark flare to 8 meters.

Gtfo here with this 8 meters BS. Shorten the stun, take the damage down a little but we’re not forcing a ranged class to get into melee range to CC. Wtf is everyone’s problem with this skill? It’s just a little stronger than it should be. I literally do not care about this skill when I’m on my stam toons except that the stun should be shorter maybe 2-3 seconds so that if you’re low on stam but you’re properly use LOS when you’re in trouble, you could get hit with it and have a chance for it to end before your enemy catches up.

This guy gets it. The problem is most NB's don't know how to fight. In-fact their whole class is build on avoiding a fight, want a free kill. Now they have to learn to engage and fight, its new to them. They will adapt I'm sure.

Qbiken

Aye, neuter it!

While we´re at it, can we rework defensive rune so it only procs on direct damage?

bardx86

Nay, L2P

Gprime31 wrote: »

Anything that punishes you for attacking someone is dumb

huh? what? So Dk's flappy wings are dumb?

Vapirko

Nay, L2P

Solariken wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

And I’m so tired of being in the thick of of the fight and “some” cheeky Templar dark flare spams me and then soul assaults me from 28 meters. Definitely reduce soul assault and dark flare to 8 meters.

Gtfo here with this 8 meters BS. Shorten the stun, take the damage down a little but we’re not forcing a ranged class to get into melee range to CC. Wtf is everyone’s problem with this skill? It’s just a little stronger than it should be. I literally do not care about this skill when I’m on my stam toons except that the stun should be shorter maybe 2-3 seconds so that if you’re low on stam but you’re properly use LOS when you’re in trouble, you could get hit with it and have a chance for it to end before your enemy catches up.

Have you even played PvP this patch? Just a little stronger than it should be? Lol. This skill is a nightmare. If you're fighting 1v1 you can deal with it. If you are outnumbered AT ALL your are freaking toast and there is nothing you can do about it. RC itself doesn't seem threatening by tooltip but it guarantees that the entire combo will land and you'll pop like a balloon unless you have 40k HP.

Been PvPing constantly mate. But lets be real, when you're fighting outnumbered the things that will *** you up include: lethal arrow, dark flare, fossilize, sub assault, sloads, zaan, time stop, crippling grasp, fear, javelin, i mean the list goes on. It only guarantees that the entire combo works, so long as the person doesn't LOS you or have an immov pot up. I mean mag sorcs need something to combat reflects and block builds and meteor is so slow and stupidly easy to block that if we don't have a good CC with some time on it then landing a good ult combo is just way too hard. To me it just sounds like you want to the skill nerfed to uselessness. You're not even really suggesting any reasonable changes. I could see it being dodge able with no issues, or leave it as is and nerf the damage if thats what you're worried about. Honestly I think what you're really feeling is the fact that CC break is pretty broken and rune prison ends up being a pretty bad offender when it comes to not being able to break out when you should in fact be able to. Reducing the range to 8 meters though is silly. Flame reach imo is a giant joke of a skill, really only suited to zerglings, so if you want a change to Rune Prison come up with something reasonable that doesnt gut the skill or require a ranged class to play in melee range. I could see knocking it down to 12 meters or 15 or something, but lets not go overboard. Gut reaction posts just lead to over nerfs and class gutting. You play a templar, you should understand that better than anyone.

Emma_Overload

Nay, L2P

If you want to reduce Sorc combat to melee range, then we need to get all the other benefits of melee. How about starting with a decent spammable like DK whip?

Vanzen

2 sorc v you, even the worst players ever and your toasted INSTANTLY ....

Thats the "INSTANTLY" that is game breaking for me ...

No wonder that since a few days BG are filling with noob sorcs.

8 out of 12 players often this week end.

This needs to be adressed.

Feanor

U mad brah?

Solariken wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

And I’m so tired of being in the thick of of the fight and “some” cheeky Templar dark flare spams me and then soul assaults me from 28 meters. Definitely reduce soul assault and dark flare to 8 meters.

Gtfo here with this 8 meters BS. Shorten the stun, take the damage down a little but we’re not forcing a ranged class to get into melee range to CC. Wtf is everyone’s problem with this skill? It’s just a little stronger than it should be. I literally do not care about this skill when I’m on my stam toons except that the stun should be shorter maybe 2-3 seconds so that if you’re low on stam but you’re properly use LOS when you’re in trouble, you could get hit with it and have a chance for it to end before your enemy catches up.

Have you even played PvP this patch? Just a little stronger than it should be? Lol. This skill is a nightmare. If you're fighting 1v1 you can deal with it. If you are outnumbered AT ALL your are freaking toast and there is nothing you can do about it. RC itself doesn't seem threatening by tooltip but it guarantees that the entire combo will land and you'll pop like a balloon unless you have 40k HP.

The funny thing is that the skill was doing this before Summerset already, yet nobody QQed on the forum. When RC had no damage most Sorcs preferred Destro Reach with a Master Staff.

Reducing the range just makes it a dead skill again. If I want a close combat stun I can use Bolt Escape or Reach/Clench.

The issue is neither the damage nor the range, it’s the weird animation that only gets worse to break free from when it’s laggy.

I‘m all for replacing the added burst on RC with something else, either by turning it into a DoT or a major debuff. Changing the range or reducing the damage will just kill the skill again though, and defensive rune will outshine it clearly once more.

WuffyCerulei

Aye, neuter it!

I wanna say keep the range, BUT reduce the stun time. 5 seconds is pretty stupid, considering sorcs have various stuns already. Tbh 3 secs at most would do.

BigBadVolk

My only biggest problem with Rune Cage is that it randomly happens sometimes, I mean I place a dot on the sorc he streak away or such applies it and I get Rune Caged its annoying, but they should just revert it back to the DB state of it and It'll be fine

Solariken

Aye, neuter it!

Alright so I've slept on it. I'm still disgusted by the stupidity of this morph but I'm seeing a little more clearly now. A range nerf isn't ideal but the solution is pretty simple:

Rune Cage should be dodgeable and Streak should be blockable. Then sorcs still have an answer to both types of defense without having one nightmare CC.

Brutusmax1mus

Vanzen wrote: »

2 sorc v you, even the worst players ever and your toasted INSTANTLY ....

Thats the "INSTANTLY" that is game breaking for me ...

No wonder that since a few days BG are filling with noob sorcs.

8 out of 12 players often this week end.

This needs to be adressed.

If my buddy and i get on mic and get on sorcs, it's literally as easy as choosing the target.

RebornV3x

Nay, L2P

I've dueled a few sorcs just to see what the complaints were about on my stam blade and while the ability is annoying and if the games laggy it can be hard to break free but compared to other similar attacks and combos its not as bad as OP makes it seem this you would think this ability was 1 shotting people left and right

Simply put I think the stun duration is probably a bit to long and the unlockable damage needs to be turned down a little tinny bit but this thread is a complete over reaction

Feanor

U mad brah?

Solariken wrote: »

Alright so I've slept on it. I'm still disgusted by the stupidity of this morph but I'm seeing a little more clearly now. A range nerf isn't ideal but the solution is pretty simple:

Rune Cage should be dodgeable and Streak should be blockable. Then sorcs still have an answer to both types of defense without having one nightmare CC.

Being able to dodge the CC would be an inconsistent singularity though - no class CC is dodgeable. And btw, Streak is not really a stun with a useable offensive window - 1.5 seconds is just too short considering the duration of the animation.

OdinForge

What was wrong with crystal fragments having a CC, it had a lot more counter-play than rune cage. You can even setup a kill against a sorc by reflecting the frag back at it.

ZOS logic.

Solariken

Aye, neuter it!

Feanor wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Alright so I've slept on it. I'm still disgusted by the stupidity of this morph but I'm seeing a little more clearly now. A range nerf isn't ideal but the solution is pretty simple:

Rune Cage should be dodgeable and Streak should be blockable. Then sorcs still have an answer to both types of defense without having one nightmare CC.

Being able to dodge the CC would be an inconsistent singularity though - no class CC is dodgeable. And btw, Streak is not really a stun with a useable offensive window - 1.5 seconds is just too short considering the duration of the animation.

Javelin, Stonefist, Incap, Toppling Charge... It wasn't a valid argument to begin with but then you say no class CC is dodgeable - I don't even...

Feanor

U mad brah?

Javelin isn’t dodgeable close range (due to the speed), Incap is an ultimate (Mass Hysteria isn’t dodgeable as NBs CC), Templar has no class CC worth the term, and DK has Petrify (undodgeable).

leepalmer95

This skill on a class where revolves around setting up several skills to hit at once is stupid.

Curse/ meteor/ frag + fury. Literally cannot do anything, 0 counterplay.

Feanor

U mad brah?

leepalmer95 wrote: »

This skill on a class where revolves around setting up several skills to hit at once is stupid.

Curse/ meteor/ frag + fury. Literally cannot do anything, 0 counterplay.

You’d like upfront burst better? Delayed burst at least leaves you some time to heal, Shield, block or LoS...

Koolio

Vapirko wrote: »

And I’m so tired of being in the thick of of the fight and “some” cheeky Templar dark flare spams me and then soul assaults me from 28 meters. Definitely reduce soul assault and dark flare to 8 meters.

Gtfo here with this 8 meters BS. Shorten the stun, take the damage down a little but we’re not forcing a ranged class to get into melee range to CC. Wtf is everyone’s problem with this skill? It’s just a little stronger than it should be. I literally do not care about this skill when I’m on my stam toons except that the stun should be shorter maybe 2-3 seconds so that if you’re low on stam but you’re properly use LOS when you’re in trouble, you could get hit with it and have a chance for it to end before your enemy catches up.

You mean how a Ranged MNB has to be in Melee range to use a class Cc?

Our move that was exactly like this was change to hurt the caster. That what rune cage should be changed too. A 4k heal in pvp that hurts the caster.

LegendaryMage

Sorry man, but we can't be nerfing cage again, it will be useless as it was for the last 3 years or so. I don't see a problem breaking free in time, the 'guaranteed' combo is nowhere as good unless it's a really laggy fight.

Which it is mostly nowadays, but still, can't use that as a main catalyst for a nerf. I'm gonna go ahead and say it's a l2p issue, no offense.

Feanor

U mad brah?

Koolio wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

And I’m so tired of being in the thick of of the fight and “some” cheeky Templar dark flare spams me and then soul assaults me from 28 meters. Definitely reduce soul assault and dark flare to 8 meters.

Gtfo here with this 8 meters BS. Shorten the stun, take the damage down a little but we’re not forcing a ranged class to get into melee range to CC. Wtf is everyone’s problem with this skill? It’s just a little stronger than it should be. I literally do not care about this skill when I’m on my stam toons except that the stun should be shorter maybe 2-3 seconds so that if you’re low on stam but you’re properly use LOS when you’re in trouble, you could get hit with it and have a chance for it to end before your enemy catches up.

You mean how a Ranged MNB has to be in Melee range to use a class Cc?

Our move that was exactly like this was change to hurt the caster. That what rune cage should be changed too. A 4k heal in pvp that hurts the caster.

Then everyone will just run Reach again.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

Aye, neuter it!

Anyone remember those good ol' days when Nightblades had the 28 meter unblockable/undodgeable hard CC, but if they took any, ANY damage during the stun, it'd be broken...

Yeah. I do. And I remember how good it felt actually using that extremely UNUSED skill to land kills or to shut down a healer for a split second for a burst on his duo-buddy and kill his buddy off...

It actually required skill.

This new rune cage is out of control for Sorcerers with their combo requiring little to no skill now.

Went into pvp to actually pvp for first time last night... how did I die each time? Always to a sorcerer rune cage combo burst with his other sorc buddies etc.

And believe me... I know how to evade and survive - built builds around such for pvp. But the rune cage cc is beyond skill-less.

Anywho - I'll find a way around it. haha